27 Apr
2005
27 Apr
'05
5:17 p.m.
I saw the following notice on the Heath listserver :(. Unless there is
more than meets the eye, Agilent does not come out of this looking like
a very worthwhile company.
************
Please visit the following site for the letter from Agilent.
http://bama.sbc.edu/images/Letter%204-18-05.pdf
27 Apr
27 Apr
5:40 p.m.
Agilent (HP) hasn't looked like a worthwhile company for some time! Since
they changed their name at least.
Joe
At 05:17 PM 4/27/05 -0700, you wrote:
I saw the following notice on the Heath listserver :(. Unless there is
more than meets the eye, Agilent does not come out of this looking like
a very worthwhile company.
************
Please visit the following site for the letter from Agilent.
http://bama.sbc.edu/images/Letter%204-18-05.pdf
6:46 p.m.
It was written...
Agilent (HP) hasn't looked like a worthwhile
company for some time! Since
they changed their name at least.
Last time I checked, HP didn't change their name to anything. Agilent was a
spinoff from HP. HP is still alive and kicking.
Agilent stuff is pretty good from what I've seen. Perhaps you're mistakenly
referring to the cheap desktop stuff HP is making in the consumer products
division?
Regardless... I can definitely see a company protecting their copyright. We
as collectors should be first and foremost in honoring those copyrights, or
it will be to our detriment. Of course, then we move to working with them to
ease up on old gear... but, we should rigorously maintain their copyrights
as well. That being said, I'm hard pressed to imagine them complaining about
really old manuals for gear they haven't made in decades. But that's a moot
point - have to work inside the guidelines of the law.
Jay
7:15 p.m.
I've worked quite a bit with HP's media staff and also HP Archives in the
past few years, both for my work and my collecting interests. I can attest
that they're keenly aware of the importance of their history -- and that was
during the Carly era. Things will only get better.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org]
On Behalf Of Jay West
Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 9:46 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: No More HP Manuals on BAMA
It was written...
Agilent (HP) hasn't looked like a worthwhile
company for some time!
Since they changed their name at least.
Last time I checked, HP didn't change their name to anything. Agilent was a
spinoff from HP. HP is still alive and kicking.
Agilent stuff is pretty good from what I've seen. Perhaps you're mistakenly
referring to the cheap desktop stuff HP is making in the consumer products
division?
Regardless... I can definitely see a company protecting their copyright. We
as collectors should be first and foremost in honoring those copyrights, or
it will be to our detriment. Of course, then we move to working with them to
ease up on old gear... but, we should rigorously maintain their copyrights
as well. That being said, I'm hard pressed to imagine them complaining about
really old manuals for gear they haven't made in decades. But that's a moot
point - have to work inside the guidelines of the law.
Jay
8:52 p.m.
On Wed, 27 Apr 2005, Jay West wrote:
Regardless... I can definitely see a company
protecting their copyright. We
as collectors should be first and foremost in honoring those copyrights, or
it will be to our detriment. Of course, then we move to working with them to
ease up on old gear... but, we should rigorously maintain their copyrights
as well. That being said, I'm hard pressed to imagine them complaining about
really old manuals for gear they haven't made in decades. But that's a moot
point - have to work inside the guidelines of the law.
The letter is pretty suspicious. Two typos and not very "lawerly". Sent
by e-mail? Not withstanding the assumption that the BAMA folks have
actually replied to the message and confirmed it's real. Does anyone know
if this has happened?
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ]
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9:05 p.m.
Looks real enough to me. No one ever said lawyers could type.
(I sent an earlier reply noting that HP itself is pretty good about
acknowledging its roots, despite the shredding machines... But that message
is delayed because I accidentally sent it from my Yahoo account.)
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org]
On Behalf Of Vintage Computer Festival
Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 11:53 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: No More HP Manuals on BAMA
On Wed, 27 Apr 2005, Jay West wrote:
Regardless... I can definitely see a company
protecting their
copyright. We as collectors should be first and foremost in honoring
those copyrights, or it will be to our detriment. Of course, then we
move to working with them to ease up on old gear... but, we should
rigorously maintain their copyrights as well. That being said, I'm
hard pressed to imagine them complaining about really old manuals for
gear they haven't made in decades. But that's a moot point - have to work
inside the guidelines of the law.
The letter is pretty suspicious. Two typos and not very "lawerly". Sent by
e-mail? Not withstanding the assumption that the BAMA folks have actually
replied to the message and confirmed it's real. Does anyone know if this
has happened?
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer
Festival
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
International Man of Intrigue and Danger
http://www.vintage.org
[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers
]
[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org
]
28 Apr
28 Apr
3:23 a.m.
At 11:52 PM 4/27/2005, Vintage Computer Festival wrote:
The letter is pretty suspicious. Two typos and not
very "lawerly". Sent
by e-mail? Not withstanding the assumption that the BAMA folks have
actually replied to the message and confirmed it's real. Does anyone know
if this has happened?
Yes, it has happened - at http://bama.sbc.edu/hp.htm there's a
statement that the HP materials have been removed at Agilent's request
and that "Conversations are underway which hopefully will result in a
return of HP to the BAMA archives." Give them a chance to plead their
case for allowing hobby use before getting too critical of Agilent.
-Rick
5:03 a.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Vintage Computer Festival"
-------snip-----
The letter is pretty suspicious. Two typos and not
very "lawerly".
Sent
by e-mail? Not withstanding the assumption that the BAMA folks have
actually replied to the message and confirmed it's real. Does
anyone know
if this has happened?
Definitely 'for real'. There's been a suggestion Agilent were not
happy with the quality of some of the BAMA offerings, quite apart from
the copyright issue. They may have felt it reflected badly on them.
Could be a linkage there, who knows?
There's also a report that a large test equipment manual collection
(of old HP stuff) belonging to an Agilent employee has been borrowed
to be scanned and pdf files for these manuals will be available from
the Agilent website in due course.
DaveB, NZ
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.10.4 - Release Date: 27/04/2005
5:11 a.m.
At 08:46 PM 4/27/05 -0500, you wrote:
It was written...
The tail spun off the dog!
Agilent (HP) hasn't looked like a worthwhile
company for some time! Since
they changed their name at least.
Last time I checked, HP didn't change their name to anything. Agilent was a
spinoff from HP. HP is still alive and kicking.
Agilent stuff is pretty good from what I've seen. Perhaps you're mistakenly
referring to the cheap desktop stuff HP is making in the consumer products
division?
AFIK that's all that HP makes. Aglient now makes test equipment. The
consumer grade stuff made by HP is JUNK! Even the test equipment made by
Agilent isn't nearly as good as that built by HP only a few years ago.
Regardless... I can definitely see a company protecting their copyright.
I don't disagree. I'm just pointing that HP and Agilent, but
particularly the modern HP, aren't the company that HP used to be.
Joe
We
as collectors should be first and foremost in honoring
those copyrights, or
it will be to our detriment. Of course, then we move to working with them to
ease up on old gear... but, we should rigorously maintain their copyrights
as well. That being said, I'm hard pressed to imagine them complaining about
really old manuals for gear they haven't made in decades. But that's a moot
point - have to work inside the guidelines of the law.
Jay
7:09 p.m.
Joe wrote...
AFIK that's all that HP makes. Aglient now makes
test equipment. The
consumer grade stuff made by HP is JUNK! Even the test equipment made by
Agilent isn't nearly as good as that built by HP only a few years ago.
You are only looking at the consumer products division. The HP 9000 stuff is
still made, and still the HP quality most people appreciate. Last I checked
(a couple years ago), the consumer products division was not frequently the
majority of their revenue. It occasionally on a quarterly basis surpassed
the mini & other stuff "side of the house"... but it wasn't lik 90% of
their
revenue. And the higher end intel boxes HP sells, are extremely well made.
Jay West
7:23 p.m.
Storage, too -- they sell lots of expensive storage stuff -- midrange stuff
from the Compaq legacy and high-end stuff from Hitachi
Data Systems. HP has
a huge services business too.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org]
On Behalf Of Jay West
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 10:09 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: No More HP Manuals on BAMA
Joe wrote...
AFIK that's all that HP makes. Aglient now makes
test equipment. The
consumer grade stuff made by HP is JUNK! Even the test equipment made
by Agilent isn't nearly as good as that built by HP only a few years ago.
You are only looking at the consumer products division. The HP 9000 stuff is
still made, and still the HP quality most people appreciate. Last I checked
(a couple years ago), the consumer products division was not frequently the
majority of their revenue. It occasionally on a quarterly basis surpassed
the mini & other stuff "side of the house"... but it wasn't lik 90% of
their
revenue. And the higher end intel boxes HP sells, are extremely well made.
Jay West
4:32 a.m.
Marvin Johnston wrote:
I saw the following notice on the Heath listserver :(. Unless there is
more than meets the eye, Agilent does not come out of this looking like
a very worthwhile company.
************
Please visit the following site for the letter from Agilent.
http://bama.sbc.edu/images/Letter%204-18-05.pdf
I would send email to the ceo of HP and explain why this is (a) bad PR
and (b) pointless.
I would say there is no real harm being done to HP/Agilent if the
products are long dead and unsupported.
Who knows, but worth a try.
No flames about hp, please. I know first hand how badly they suck now -
don't need any reminders.
-brad
6958
days inactive
6959
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11 comments
9 participants
participants (9)
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brad＠heeltoe.com -
evan947＠yahoo.com -
jwest＠classiccmp.org -
marvin＠rain.org -
news＠computercollector.com -
rick＠rickmurphy.net -
rigdonj＠cfl.rr.com -
tractorb＠ihug.co.nz -
vcf＠siconic.com