26 Oct
2000
26 Oct
'00
7:13 a.m.
On a recent surplus hunt, I picked up an Anderson Jacobson
ADC 300 baud acoustic coupler modem for $1. What a beauty - it's
in a wooden box with a flip-top lid and a brushed aluminum
interior panel. It has two DB-25 connectors, but one is used
to feed *in* the AC power (!). I haven't disassembled it yet.
I did a quick web search and one turns up in Megan Gentry's
collection. How old is this? It's serial number 759.
- John
26 Oct
26 Oct
7:06 a.m.
On Thu, 26 Oct 2000, John Foust wrote:
On a recent surplus hunt, I picked up an Anderson
Jacobson
ADC 300 baud acoustic coupler modem for $1. What a beauty - it's
in a wooden box with a flip-top lid and a brushed aluminum
interior panel. It has two DB-25 connectors, but one is used
to feed *in* the AC power (!). I haven't disassembled it yet.
I did a quick web search and one turns up in Megan Gentry's
collection. How old is this? It's serial number 759.
I have something very similar. Have you got a picture to post? I'll try
to get one of mine and stick it up on my website.
If I am recalling correctly, mine was apparently "manufactured" by
Livermore Data Systems, which I believe is a compnay that custom made
computer and data products for Pacific Bell back in the late 70s and early
80s in my area. I once met the guy who owned the company (and got a bunch
of computers from him :) He lives around the corner from me. It may very
well have been OEM'd from someone else.
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
9:45 a.m.
I picked up a wood box LDS modem many years ago at
the FootHill Swap meet. I hope nobody harbors a
grudge but this was before I was a serious collector;
I bought it for the box and gutted it
(would never do that today).
Anyway, as far as I can remember the thing had No IC's
in it. It was all discrete components and dozen(s) of
thimble sized things in it that I assumed were tuned
inductors.
Does this sound right? A Modem of completely analog
devices?
John A.
9:55 a.m.
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 2214 bytes
Desc: not available
Url :
http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001026/db563eec/at…
10:21 a.m.
On Thu, 26 Oct 2000, Tony Duell wrote:
We had (I doubt any are still in use) some modems over
here that (IIRC)
were made by Plessey, and rented by the GPO (who ran the telephone
service, and who owned everything connected to it at the time. You had to
rent whatever equipment you wanted from them). Anyway, the modems in
question were large -- about 2/3 the size of a PC/AT system box -- metal
cases with (mormally) 4 plug-in modules inside. They were the PSU,
Modulator, Demodulator, and control. It was all discrete components
(well, the 'control' module, which did things like ring detection,
hookswitch, etc used a number of relays). The modulator was either a pair
of oscillators and a way to swich between them, or a single VCO with a
circuit to switch the control voltage.
I just picked up something like this a few weeks ago. I believe it was
all discrete components on about 4 plug-in modules as you describe, but
I've forgotten who manufactured it. I'll take a peek at it when I get
home.
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
7:30 a.m.
On Thu, 26 Oct 2000, John Foust wrote:
On a recent surplus hunt, I picked up an Anderson Jacobson
ADC 300 baud acoustic coupler modem for $1. What a beauty - it's
in a wooden box with a flip-top lid and a brushed aluminum
interior panel. It has two DB-25 connectors, but one is used
to feed *in* the AC power (!). I haven't disassembled it yet.
I did a quick web search and one turns up in Megan Gentry's
collection. How old is this? It's serial number 759.
Well... I remember using a modem like that with a Teletype to dial into
the original CBBS (Chicago) system in probably late 1977 or early 1978...
-jim
---
jimw(a)computergarage.org || jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com
The Computer Garage - http://www.computergarage.org
Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174
11:50 a.m.
The OMSI (Oregon Museum of Science and Industry) had one in 72.
It was OLD then.
Jim Davis.
John Foust wrote:
On a recent surplus hunt, I picked up an Anderson Jacobson
ADC 300 baud acoustic coupler modem for $1. What a beauty - it's
in a wooden box with a flip-top lid and a brushed aluminum
interior panel. It has two DB-25 connectors, but one is used
to feed *in* the AC power (!). I haven't disassembled it yet.
I did a quick web search and one turns up in Megan Gentry's
collection. How old is this? It's serial number 759.
- John
1:05 p.m.
I have an older model, the ADC 260. SN 2019.
DB-25's, plus a power cable goes in through a hole drilled in the
middle of the bottom side. And there are some stylish rivets along
the bottom as well.
-Lawrence LeMay
John Foust wrote:
On a recent surplus hunt, I picked up an Anderson Jacobson
ADC 300 baud acoustic coupler modem for $1. What a beauty - it's
in a wooden box with a flip-top lid and a brushed aluminum
interior panel. It has two DB-25 connectors, but one is used
to feed *in* the AC power (!). I haven't disassembled it yet.
I did a quick web search and one turns up in Megan Gentry's
collection. How old is this? It's serial number 759.
- John
6:02 p.m.
New subject: Was it 110, 135, then 300?
What was the progression in modems? Was it 110, 135, then 300, or were the
first two speeds pre modem technology?
7:44 p.m.
New subject: Was it 110, 135, then 300?
Weren't there baudot (1 bps) modems? I dunno, my first one was 300 baud.
What was the progression in modems? Was it 110, 135, then 300, or were the
first two speeds pre modem technology?
--
Jim Strickland
jim(a)DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
BeOS Powered!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
9:58 p.m.
New subject: Was it 110, 135, then 300?
Weren't there baudot (1 bps) modems? I dunno, my
first one was 300 baud.
??? 1 bps is pretty slow!
Emile Baudot invented a five-key chorded keyboard, a way to turn the
keypresses into a signal and send it electrically, I assume some kind of
printer, and a five-bit binary-coded character set. People realized they
needed a unit to measure the speed of information transmission. They
created the unit -- one change in the signal state per second -- and named
it the "baud" after Baudot. (Old books talk of a machine working at so many
bauds, which makes sense but still seems funny to me.)
If a signal has more than two states, then one baud for that signal is more
than one bit per second.
Someone named Murray (I forget his first name) came up with a new five-bit
code designed to save wear on the tape punches by making the most frequent
letters have the fewest holes. People often talk about Baudot code when
they really mean Murray code.
The Teletype models that use the Murray code run at about 45 baud (or more
if you change the gears).
-- Derek
27 Oct
27 Oct
5:41 a.m.
New subject: Was it 110, 135, then 300?
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 629 bytes
Desc: not available
Url :
http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001027/4ca32d48/at…
26 Oct
26 Oct
9:44 p.m.
New subject: Was it 110, 135, then 300?
What was the progression in modems? Was it 110, 135,
then 300, or were the
first two speeds pre modem technology?
I'm not sure if there was _a_ progression, but anyway...
No, the first two speeds were not pre-modem technology. The early Teletypes
(with the five-bit character codes) work at around 45 bps (or more if you
change the gears). The later models with ASCII work at 110 bps. Many units
have direct connections through current loops, but some have modems.
BTW, the technique they use is still used today and called by the same name:
Frequency Shift Keying. "Frequency shift" is because the two bits are
represented by tones of slightly different frequencies, "keying" because the
Teletype was regarded as a distant descendant of Morse's telegraph key.
There is an intermediate machine, named after its inventor Wheatstone, which
uses a typewriter keyboard, punched paper tape, and electric transmission of
the signal, but works directly in Morse Code! The printer that goes with
this setup prints dots and dashes on a narrow strip of paper.)
The 135-bps speed was created by IBM for their typewriter terminals.
Another type of machine -- which uses a modem but for an analog signal --
is a certain type of fax machine. It's not necessarily relevant but it's
interesting (and fun to watch).
-- Derek
27 Oct
27 Oct
4:18 a.m.
New subject: Was it 110, 135, then 300?
On Thu, 26 Oct 2000, Mike Ford wrote:
What was the progression in modems? Was it 110, 135,
then 300, or were the
first two speeds pre modem technology?
Never heard of 135. What about 50 baud?
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
5:19 a.m.
New subject: Was it 110, 135, then 300?
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 470 bytes
Desc: not available
Url :
http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001027/74637363/at…
5:33 a.m.
New subject: Was it 110, 135, then 300?
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 1698 bytes
Desc: not available
Url :
http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001027/ec1c19b8/at…
6:19 a.m.
New subject: Was it 110, 135, then 300?
What was the progression in modems? Was it 110, 135,
then 300, or were the
first two speeds pre modem technology?
Bell 103 type modems used FSK, so they were rated for full duplex operation
at any bit rate from 0 to 300 bps. In practice you could usually get
450 bps from them. I've heard talk of 600 bps, but never observed it
to work reliably. 110 and 134.5 bps were common because of the use
of Teletypes and IBM 2741 terminals.
Bell 202 type modems used FSK for up to 1200 bps half duplex. There
was provision for a much lower rate back channel, around 75 bps IIRC.
At 1200 bps full duplex and higher, FSK is not usable. The modulation
techniques got much more complex, starting with PSK (phase shift keying)
then QAM (quadrature amplitude modulation). With PSK and QAM modems,
you can't send arbitrary bit rates as with FSK. You pretty much *have*
to send the bits when the modem wants them. The modulation is fundamentally
synchronous, so what actually goes across the wire is async framing over
a sync carrier, which is sometimes called isochronous. Don't get me
started on the hairy details of speed matching, which involves stop bit
shaving, and in some cases stop bit deletion and reinsertion. It's a
mess. Be glad that your sub-$100 modem takes care of all this nastiness
for you.
At 1200 bps full duplex, there were two standards as well as a proprietary
scheme. Bell 212 used PSK, CCITT V.22 used QAM (IIRC), and I have no idea
what the Vadic 3400 used.
PSK is not *too* difficult to implement in the analog domain, but QAM
is pretty tricky. By the mid-1980s most QAM modems were implemented
digitally (although many still used an analog bandsplit filter before
the ADC).
From 1200 bps to V.34bis (or do they have V.34ter now),
almost all modems
used QAM with increasingly complex constellations. The 56K modems
use
entirely different techniques.
Eric
9:08 a.m.
New subject: Was it 110, 135, then 300?
Mustn't forget 75 and 150, which were at the low end of teletypes and other
equipment I had back in the '70's. The old baudot terminal was run at 55 or
63, wasn't it? I didn't own one of those, but had a setting of 75 on a
couple of old printing terminals that I bought for the parts. One of them
had a Novation modem board in it, thatI handled just a day or two ago. It
worked with a built-in acoustic coupler and could be set for 110, 150, or
300. It could even print fast enough to keep up with 300!
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Ford <mikeford(a)socal.rr.com>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Friday, October 27, 2000 12:02 AM
Subject: Was it 110, 135, then 300?
What was the progression in modems? Was it 110, 135,
then 300, or were the
first two speeds pre modem technology?
10:42 a.m.
New subject: Was it 110, 135, then 300?
My CDC Plato terminal supports these rates:
If receiving at 1200: 75, 120, 150, 600, 1200
If receiving at 1260: 78.2, 126, 157.5, 630, 1260
Also, my International Data Sciences, Modem Test Set supports the
following data rates: 75, 110, 134.5, 150, 300, 600, 1200, 1800, 2400,
4800, 9600. ALso, stop bits can be either 1, 1.4, or 2. This is a
1980's device, with Nixie tube display.
-Lawrence LeMay
What was the progression in modems? Was it 110, 135,
then 300, or were the
first two speeds pre modem technology?
1:14 p.m.
New subject: Was it 110, 135, then 300?
My PMMI MM-103 modem supports anything from 61 up to 600 baud, though
anything within this range but considered nonstandard is only
supported between two MM-103's. It uses FSK modulation and the
manual is copyright 1980, though some of the circuit diagrams I have
for it are dated 1978.
Jeff
My CDC Plato terminal supports these rates:
If receiving at 1200: 75, 120, 150, 600, 1200
If receiving at 1260: 78.2, 126, 157.5, 630, 1260
Also, my International Data Sciences, Modem Test Set supports the
following data rates: 75, 110, 134.5, 150, 300, 600, 1200, 1800, 2400,
4800, 9600. ALso, stop bits can be either 1, 1.4, or 2. This is a
1980's device, with Nixie tube display.
-Lawrence LeMay
> What was the progression in modems? Was it 110, 135, then 300, or were the
> first two speeds pre modem technology?
>
>
--
Power Computing PowerCurve, 400mhz G3, Mac OS 9.0.4
Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems:
http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757
28 Oct
28 Oct
3:45 a.m.
New subject: Was it 110, 135, then 300?
It was 45.5, 50, 56.875, 75, 110, 134.5, 150, 300, 600, 1200, 1800, 2400,
4800, 9600 etc etc etc
Most of the lower ones were used for Baudot 5bit teletype comms and were
commonly referred to as 60, 67, 75, and 100 words per minute. 134.5 is
used by some IBM systems (older).
Any I missed?
Source: Atari 850 interface module operators manual.
The 850 can handle the current-loop which teletype use but only on two of
the four ports.
An interesting note is that the Microbits Peripheral Products MPP1000
series "300" baud modem is adjustable in increments of 1baud making all
combinations possible reliably up to about 450baud on a clean line. This
was an obviously useful feature if the BBS you were calling also had an
MPP1000 modem..... Another use was when the other-end used a modem that
wasnt running at quite the correct rate. The Atari 1030 modem runs at 297
and is not adjustable. I'd just set my MPP to 297 and things would go
smoothly.
More trivia that you probably allready know is that the term 'Baud' does
not apply to the newer (2400 and up) modems because these don't use FSCK
to move data. They send multifrequency 'symbols' taking better advantage
of the audio bandwith of the phone line.
Does anyone recall the origin of the term "Baud". I used to know but that
was a long time ago. I think it was someone named Baudot?
regards,
Jeff
P.S. I reserve the right to be wrong.
In <l03102800b61eca842fde(a)[192.168.1.4]>4]>, on 10/28/00
at 11:45 AM, Mike Ford <mikeford(a)socal.rr.com> said:
What was the progression in modems? Was it 110, 135,
then 300, or were
the first two speeds pre modem technology?
--
-----------------------------------------------------------
Jeffrey S. Worley
President
Complete Computer Services, Inc.
30 Greenwood Rd.
Asheville, NC 28803
828-277-5959
THETechnoid(a)home.com
-----------------------------------------------------------
5:36 a.m.
New subject: AT&T 7300
I stopped by the local recyclers today and they had an AT&T
7300 for $40
Does anyone here know anything about this machine?
Thay also had an older apple monitor on the stand for $10
and a keyboard for the PS/2 model 25 for $5 to complete a
few partial machines in the basement.
Still no luck finding the VAXstation parts
6:12 a.m.
New subject: AT&T 7300
I stopped by the local recyclers today and they had an
AT&T
7300 for $40
Does anyone here know anything about this machine?
It was a nice mid-1980s 68010-based Unix box. AT&T System V release 2
with some Berkeley extensions. 512K RAM on the motherboard, more can
be added via the three expansion slots. Max 4M total, though to get
that on a 7300 you'll either have to modify some expansion boards or
upgrade the motherboard to 2M by replacing all of the soldered-in chips.
Uses a custom MMU design for demand-paged virtual memory. Maximum
per-process VM is 4M, so you can't run really big modern stuff.
I think the only hard drive sizes AT&T shipped on the 7300 were 10 and
20 megabytes. The 3B1 is a similar machine with 2M RAM on the motherboard
and a modified case that can hold a full-height 5.25 inch drive. Those
shipped with 40 or 67M drives. It's possible to upgrade to most any MFM
drive that will physically fit, but to access more than 1024 cylinders
(e.g., a Maxtor XT2190 drive with 1124 cylinders for 150 megabytes), you
need to replace the WD1010 HDC chip with a WD2010.
The C compiler is K&R (non-ANSI), but there is a port of GCC.
There's no X. I tried to build Xlib some years back, so that I'd
be able to run X clients (NOT an X server), but I ran into trouble
and gave up.
The native window system is similar to AT&T's "FACE" environment
(Framed Access Computing Environment or some such). There's also a port
of the MGR window system.
The definitive web site is:
http://unixpc.taronga.com/
8:04 a.m.
New subject: New Find - system36
A fellow just called me at my work number. He said he had a complete 36'
in his van he HAD to get rid of as he was getting 7mpg and couldn't get it
out of the van himself.
I offered $20.00 an he took it. We had to take the door off the house and
remove trim on both sides of the door to get it inside. It weights
several hundred pounds.
It is a 5360 with a printer and two terminals. Looks like it can run up
to six terminals total. I have the documentation and quite a few original
disks as well.
I'm not sure what the power requirements are but it looks like 220vac. I
might have to get an adapter for the location it is in at present.
Any advice or suggestions would be apreciated.
Thanks guys,
Jeff
--
-----------------------------------------------------------
Jeffrey S. Worley
President
Complete Computer Services, Inc.
30 Greenwood Rd.
Asheville, NC 28803
828-277-5959
Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com
THETechnoid(a)home.com
-----------------------------------------------------------
2:40 p.m.
New subject: AT&T 7300
On 28 Oct 2000, Eric Smith wrote:
need to replace the WD1010 HDC chip with a WD2010.
Does anyone know of a good source for WD2010 ICs? There was also a
hardware hack (the ICUS upgrade?) to add a second HD.
The C compiler is K&R (non-ANSI), but there is a
port of GCC.
Note that to use the port of GCC, one still needs to have the
development set.
There's no X. I tried to build Xlib some years
back, so that I'd
be able to run X clients (NOT an X server), but I ran into trouble
and gave up.
Nice try anyway! :-) How far did you get with this?
The definitive web site is:
http://unixpc.taronga.com/
Thanks for posting this URL! It's been a while since I've done much
with my 3B1s... I really should get the second one working again.
--
Copyright (C) 2000 R. D. Davis "The best way to gain a true understanding of
All Rights Reserved Wile E. Coyote on the Roadrunner cartoons is to
rdd(a)perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 fly, head-first, off a horse into something like
http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd a fence or a tree; trust me, this works." --RDD
4:15 p.m.
New subject: AT&T 7300
There are a couple of not-too-subtle differences between the WD1010 and the
2010. The latter decoded the SDH register via an unused pin on the 1010 so
you could latch that byte and decode it in order to put the drive select and
head select signals on the cable without having to write code and take the
time to write the value twice. It also had an extra bit in the high byte
of the cylinder address. The primary difference, however, was that the 2010
was actually capable of effecting the 56-bit ECC code which the 1010 didn't
support. Since PC makers never place a high premium on any of these
features, the PC didn't see many of the 2010's but that's a reasonable place
to start looking, since they did appear in some PC controllers.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: R. D. Davis <rdd(a)smart.net
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2000 8:40 PM
Subject: Re: AT&T 7300
On 28 Oct 2000, Eric Smith wrote:
of
need to replace the WD1010 HDC chip with a
WD2010.
Does anyone know of a good source for WD2010 ICs? There was also a
hardware hack (the ICUS upgrade?) to add a second HD.
The C compiler is K&R (non-ANSI), but there
is a port of GCC.
Note that to use the port of GCC, one still needs to have the
development set.
There's no X. I tried to build Xlib some
years back, so that I'd
be able to run X clients (NOT an X server), but I ran into trouble
and gave up.
Nice try anyway! :-) How far did you get with this?
The definitive web site is:
http://unixpc.taronga.com/
Thanks for posting this URL! It's been a while since I've done much
with my 3B1s... I really should get the second one working again.
--
Copyright (C) 2000 R. D. Davis "The best way to gain a true understanding All Rights Reserved Wile E. Coyote on the
Roadrunner cartoons
is to
rdd(a)perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 fly, head-first, off a
horse into something
like
http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd a fence or a tree;
trust me, this
works." --RDD
29 Oct
29 Oct
1:46 a.m.
New subject: AT&T 7300
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 620 bytes
Desc: not available
Url :
http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001029/4efabfd3/at…
2:47 p.m.
New subject: AT&T 7300
In message <Pine.LNX.4.10.10010282233320.29172-100000(a)smarty.smart.net>et>, "R.
D.
Davis" writes:
On 28 Oct 2000, Eric Smith wrote:
Yes and no. The gcc port that was packaged up in a nice
distribution did require some parts of the development
set IIRC. However, before I had access to such archives,
I ended up doing a port of gcc the hard way. To give you
an idea what I mean by the hard way, I started the process
by writing a 68000 disassembler in awk since that was the
only language (other than the shell) that comes with the
foundation set. In the process I was able to deduce how
the shared library worked and made reasonable guesses for
the header files. Later I found in the archives of
comp.sources.3b1 a set of header files that fixed some
of the weakness in mine. (Of course, if you want to
be technical, those header files are modified versions of
the ones in the development set.) Unfortunately, I don't think
I ever put it in the index of the archive that I sent Peter
for unixpc.taronga.com. (It's probably burried on the CD
somewhere though.)
It's great seeing semi-active discussion of the 7300/3b1.
It's still one of my favorite machines.
Brian L. Stuart
The C compiler is K&R (non-ANSI), but there
is a port of GCC.
Note that to use the port of GCC, one still needs to have the
development set. 
28 Oct
28 Oct
1:35 p.m.
New subject: AT&T 7300
At 01:36 PM 10/28/00 -0400, you wrote:
I stopped by the local recyclers today and they had an
AT&T
7300 for $40
Does anyone here know anything about this machine?
Sure, I have several of them but I haven't used one in a while. They're
the same thing as a 3B1 except that the 3B1s usually have a hump on them
that houses a full height hard drive. Many of the 7300s have been field
modified to include the hump and FH drive. They run UNIX and have a good
set of programs with them. They're usually password protected but unless
someone has "fixed" the OS, it's easy to break into them. One of the
former list members, Ward Donald Griffiths III <gram(a)cnct.com>om>, used to
work on these and is very knowlegdeable about them. Make sure that you get
the mouse, keyboard and monitor for it. I don't think there are any others
that will work on them so you need the original ones.
Joe
Thay also had an older apple monitor on the stand for $10
and a keyboard for the PS/2 model 25 for $5 to complete a
few partial machines in the basement.
Still no luck finding the VAXstation parts
1:18 p.m.
New subject: Wierd Stuff note
For those of you in the SF Bay area I wanted to pass along a note from a
visit today (Saturday 10/28) to Wierd Stuff. I saw a badly mauled PDP11-34
in the back for $300 (yea, right). Other than a front panel in good
condition, it was really only a classic DEC rack with a few boards inside
the chassis.
I'm also looking for a keyboard and mouse for a SUN Sparcstation I recently
acquired (thanks Kirk!). I also need a cable to connect a Sony monitor with
a 5 coax connectors on the back (R-G-B and a Sync for VD and HD). Any hints
where I should look (other than wierd stuff and $UN). Mouse Systems which
produced optical mice for SUN workstations seems to no longer be in
business. THanks for any pointers.
Lee Courtney
5:19 p.m.
New subject: Wierd Stuff note
On Sat, Oct 28, 2000 at 06:18:15PM -0700, Lee Courtney wrote:
I'm also looking for a keyboard and mouse for a
SUN Sparcstation I recently
acquired (thanks Kirk!). I also need a cable to connect a Sony monitor with
a 5 coax connectors on the back (R-G-B and a Sync for VD and HD). Any hints
where I should look (other than wierd stuff and $UN). Mouse Systems which
produced optical mice for SUN workstations seems to no longer be in
business. THanks for any pointers.
Lee Courtney
Lee - email me privately, I've got tons of type4 keyboards and mice and would
be glad to send you a kit.
Bill Bradford
mrbill(a)sunhelp.org
(also see www.sunhelp.org)
2:31 p.m.
New subject: AT&T 7300
On Sat, 28 Oct 2000, Joe wrote:
Sure, I have several of them but I haven't used
one in a while. They're
the same thing as a 3B1 except that the 3B1s usually have a hump on them
There are some other differences as well, but I don't recall them at
the moment; not major differences, however. My first UNIX box was a
3B1, and I've still got the machine running, although the original
Micropolis hard drive is no more - which is a pity, as I liked the
sound it made. I used to get a UUCP newsfeed and mail on my 3B1,
which, I must admit, was more fun that using PPP. :-) Does anyone here
still use UUCP for news and e-mail?
These are fun machines, and there's a fairly large amount of software
available for them, from GCC to Emacs to Tetris... although as someone
pointed out, a lot of the newer, larger, UNIX packages won't run on
them and there's no X windows - e.g., don't expect to run GIMP or
Netscape on one. However, if you want a nifty, customizeable,
computerized telephone answering machine or something fun to run a BBS
system on, or to use for e-mail and a small newsfeed, a 3B1 will do
rather nicely.
If you can find a tape drive & controller and ethernet board, grab
them, as the system will be much more useful with them. Also, the
development set is a must have if you want these machines to be
useful.
that houses a full height hard drive. Many of the
7300s have been field
modified to include the hump and FH drive. They run UNIX and have a good
They run what's basically AT&T System V Unix. TCP/IP software isn't
included; it's an optional package from Wollengong that's usually
found with the ethernet board.
set of programs with them. They're usually
password protected but unless
someone has "fixed" the OS, it's easy to break into them. One of the
AFAIK, the attempts at getting the OS sources released were never
successful - does anyone have any info. about this? Without hacking
the OS, one can make noticeable security improvements by disabling the
window manager and fixing permissions, etc.
former list members, Ward Donald Griffiths III
<gram(a)cnct.com>om>, used to
work on these and is very knowlegdeable about them. Make sure that you get
the mouse, keyboard and monitor for it. I don't think there are any others
that will work on them so you need the original ones.
Erm... getting one without a monitor wouldn't be too easy, as the
monitor is attached to top of the chasis and isn't removeable.
Getting the chasis open is a bit tricky, so go slow with doing that,
as you can break something easily. For repairs, it's helpful to find
one of the binders containing the set of schematics - these were rare
several years ago, however. Comp.sys.3b1 used to be a very active
newsgroup; it still exists.
BTW, would anyone here happen to have a set of voice power card
floppies and docs for the 3B1/7300 that they could clone?
Notes: the variable-speed DC fans were known to fail, and result in
melting chasis, so, if you plan to leave yours on, you may wish to
consider replacing the fan, or fans (some systems have one, some two).
--
Copyright (C) 2000 R. D. Davis "The best way to gain a true understanding of
All Rights Reserved Wile E. Coyote on the Roadrunner cartoons is to
rdd(a)perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 fly, head-first, off a horse into something like
http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd a fence or a tree; trust me, this works." --RDD
3:58 p.m.
New subject: AT&T 7300
The 7300/3B1 was capable of running SYSV R3.1, I had a 3B1 with 3.2
because I worked at the hotline. I was never able to get the ethernet
board so I resorted to Starlan. I still have 1 7300 and an RS232 NAU.
My 3B1 first died in 88, the power supply went. I build a board to convert
a PC power supply to the 3B1 power supply connector. I also added an AC
fan to keep it cool and quiet. I still have the tape drive and probably
the RS232 ports and 8088 board for it. I also have the software.
I seemed to recal being able to reset all the passwords via the menu
system so as long as you could get in you could reset all the passwords.
Oh, I also still have the 8 head mods to the hard drive system. You would
swap in a 2010 for the WD1010 and solder on this mod to get the extra head.
Unfortunately the 3B1 went out the door when the drive died (80M, $939 to
replace). I then started with Linux on a 386SX/16. I still have that one
but the keyboard controller is fried but Linux still runs.
--
Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry(a)home.net
http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only)
http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics)
http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge)
4:35 p.m.
New subject: AT&T 7300
I don't see how switching from a 1010 to a 2010 will help with the number of
heads in a controller => drive interface. Both chips have three bits to
define the head address. One thing that could be done with the external SDH
register, however, is encode a drive select bit as a head address. However,
the hardware to do that would already have to be in place. Most controllers
did it the long slow way, using an external device to generate the head and
drive select signals. I used several different drives with more than eight
heads, using the drive select in at least one case. It's merely a matter of
lying to the device with its bit defiitions. However, the track and sector
ID fields will have a seemingly wrong head address if the fact that a
mapping trick is in place isn't taken into account in the formatting
routine. Any checks of the contents of the head field in the SDH register
will reflect what the chip knows is the correct number of heads as it has
read it from the drive's sector ID field, and the driver software has to
compensate for that. If you're in a position to use that signal as a
partitioning vehicle, you're that much ahead of the game. The user and the
OS will understand much more easily if a physical drive change occurs when a
drive change is signalled in the SDH address.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: Neil Cherry <ncherry(a)home.net>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2000 9:58 PM
Subject: Re: AT&T 7300
The 7300/3B1 was capable of running SYSV R3.1, I had a
3B1 with 3.2
because I worked at the hotline. I was never able to get the ethernet
board so I resorted to Starlan. I still have 1 7300 and an RS232 NAU.
My 3B1 first died in 88, the power supply went. I build a board to convert
a PC power supply to the 3B1 power supply connector. I also added an AC
fan to keep it cool and quiet. I still have the tape drive and probably
the RS232 ports and 8088 board for it. I also have the software.
I seemed to recal being able to reset all the passwords via the menu
system so as long as you could get in you could reset all the passwords.
Oh, I also still have the 8 head mods to the hard drive system. You would
swap in a 2010 for the WD1010 and solder on this mod to get the extra
head.
Unfortunately the 3B1 went out the door when the drive
died (80M, $939 to
replace). I then started with Linux on a 386SX/16. I still have that one
but the keyboard controller is fried but Linux still runs.
--
Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry(a)home.net
http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only)
http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics)
http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge)
7:56 p.m.
New subject: AT&T 7300
"Richard Erlacher" <richard(a)idcomm.com> wrote:
I don't see how switching from a 1010 to a 2010
will help with the number of
heads in a controller => drive interface. Both chips have three bits to
define the head address. One thing that could be done with the external SDH
register, however, is encode a drive select bit as a head address.
Correct. The only reason to use a WD2010 in an AT&T 7300 or 3B1 is that
the WD2010 supports up to 2048 cylinders, while the WD1010 only supported
1024. If you use a Maxtor XT2190 or equivalent, which as 1224 cylinders,
you lose 200 cylinders if you only have the WD1010.
The hack to support more than eight heads (such as 15 for the aforementioned
XT2190) did use external logic to produce the most significant head select
line. This had the consequence that the address headers on the disk for
heads 0 and 8 were identical, thus if you tried to read with head 0 but
the most significant head select line was stuck high, it would happily
read from head 8 instead with no way to tell that it was getting the
wrong data. Similarly for the other six cases, and for writing.
IIRC, Intel second-sourced the WD1010 and WD2010 as the i82062 and i82064.
29 Oct
29 Oct
12:33 a.m.
New subject: AT&T 7300
At 11:58 PM 10/28/00 -0400, Neil wrote:
The 7300/3B1 was capable of running SYSV R3.1, I had a
3B1 with 3.2
because I worked at the hotline. I was never able to get the ethernet
board so I resorted to Starlan. I still have 1 7300 and an RS232 NAU.
My 3B1 first died in 88, the power supply went. I build a board to convert
a PC power supply to the 3B1 power supply connector. I also added an AC
fan to keep it cool and quiet.
The variable speed fan used in them was quiet but very prone to failing
and causing the power supply to go into terminal melt down, I had forgotten
about that. Replacing the fan with an AC powered one was highly recommended.
I seemed to recal being able to reset all the passwords via the menu
system so as long as you could get in you could reset all the passwords.
Correct, I seem to remember that TUTOR, ADMIN and INSTALL would get you
into any machine that hadn't had the OS fixed. One of mine has the OS
fixed and I still haven't figured out how to get into it but I haven't
tried very hard either since I have two with the "broken" OS.
Oh, I also still have the 8 head mods to the hard drive system. You would
swap in a 2010 for the WD1010 and solder on this mod to get the extra head.
Replacing the WD1010 with a 2010 allowed you to use a hard drive with 8
heads and a resulting larger capacity. I think there were also some mods to
increase the data transfer rate too. WD2010s are widely available on
surplus/scrap disk drive controllers. This mod and many others used to be
posted on the net. I think I have them all archived, let me know if you
have trouble finding them and I'll E-mail them to you.
Joe
12:23 a.m.
New subject: AT&T 7300
Joe wrote:
You could also boot a systems disk and mount / . Once it was mounted you would
use vi to edit the /etc/passwd file.
As some else pointed out, the WD2010 got you the extra cylinders (2048)
the other mod (a pal, which I have) got you the extra head bit.
BTW: I also archived various messages (dead tree format), I also have the
hardware manual.
--
Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry(a)home.net
http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only)
http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics)
http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge)
At 11:58 PM 10/28/00 -0400, Neil wrote:
>The 7300/3B1 was capable of running SYSV R3.1, I had a 3B1 with 3.2
I seemed to
recal being able to reset all the passwords via the menu
system so as long as you could get in you could reset all the passwords.
Correct, I seem to remember that TUTOR, ADMIN and INSTALL would get you
into any machine that hadn't had the OS fixed. One of mine has the OS
fixed and I still haven't figured out how to get into it but I haven't
tried very hard either since I have two with the "broken" OS. Oh, I also
still have the 8 head mods to the hard drive system. You would
swap in a 2010 for the WD1010 and solder on this mod to get the extra head.
Replacing the WD1010 with a 2010 allowed you to use a hard drive with 8
heads and a resulting larger capacity. I think there were also some mods to
increase the data transfer rate too. WD2010s are widely available on
surplus/scrap disk drive controllers. This mod and many others used to be
posted on the net. I think I have them all archived, let me know if you
have trouble finding them and I'll E-mail them to you.
1:30 a.m.
New subject: AT&T 7300
At 08:23 AM 10/29/00 -0500, Neil wrote:
OK I knew it was something like that. The point is that there a number
of mods that you can do to them to add bigger and more drives, more
reliaable fans, etc. There is (or was) a lot of mods and info about them
scattered around the net. I still check the AT&T news-groups but they're
pretty much dead now.
Do you have the logic equations for the PAL? I don't think I have them
but I recently got a PAL programmer so I could roll my own if I had the
equations.
Joe wrote:
You could also boot a systems disk and mount / . Once it was mounted you
would
At 11:58 PM 10/28/00 -0400, Neil wrote:
>The 7300/3B1 was capable of running SYSV R3.1, I had a 3B1 with 3.2
I seemed
to recal being able to reset all the passwords via the menu
system so as long as you could get in you could reset all the passwords.
Correct, I seem to remember that TUTOR, ADMIN and INSTALL would get you
into any machine that hadn't had the OS fixed. One of mine has the OS
fixed and I still haven't figured out how to get into it but I haven't
tried very hard either since I have two with the "broken" OS. use vi to edit the /etc/passwd file.
Yes, IF you have a systems disk! I didn't get any docs or disks till I
had collected four or five of the machines even then the first systems disk
that I got was corrupted and wouldn't boot. I don't know if I ever got a
working systems disk.
> >Oh, I also still have the 8 head mods to the hard drive system. You would
> >swap in a 2010 for the WD1010 and solder on this mod to get the extra
head.
Replacing the WD1010 with a 2010 allowed you to use a hard drive with 8
heads and a resulting larger capacity. I think there were also some mods to
increase the data transfer rate too. WD2010s are widely available on
surplus/scrap disk drive controllers. This mod and many others used to be
posted on the net. I think I have them all archived, let me know if you
have trouble finding them and I'll E-mail them to you.
As some else pointed out, the WD2010 got you the extra cylinders (2048)
the other mod (a pal, which I have) got you the extra head bit.
BTW: I also archived various messages
(dead tree format),
That's an interesting term. I've never heard that before.
I also have the
hardware manual.
I'd like to get a copy of that. Someone was supposed to be putting it on
CD-disk several years ago and I bought a copy but never got it. I have a
number of other manuals for the 7300 and I think I may have the
developement software. I need to go through the stuff and make a list of
what I have.
Joe
7 Nov
7 Nov
11:39 a.m.
New subject: AT&T 7300
----- Original Message -----
From: "Neil Cherry" <ncherry(a)home.net>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2000 8:23 AM
Subject: Re: AT&T 7300
Joe wrote:
>
> At 11:58 PM 10/28/00 -0400, Neil wrote:
> >The 7300/3B1 was capable of running SYSV R3.1, I had a
3B1 with 3.2
> >I seemed to recal being able to reset all the passwords
via the menu
> >system so as long as you could get in you
could reset
all the passwords.
>
> Correct, I seem to remember that TUTOR, ADMIN and
INSTALL would get you
> into any machine that hadn't had the OS
fixed. One of
mine has the OS
> fixed and I still haven't figured out how to
get into it
but I haven't
> tried very hard either since I have two with the
"broken" OS.
You could also boot a systems disk and mount / . Once it
was mounted you would
use vi to edit the /etc/passwd file.
Well The machine has booted up with a login: prompt.
How do I access the menu that will let me change the
password?
Any suggestions on a boot disk that will fir on a 5.25?
Is this a 360 or a 1.2 meg drive?
On the back are 3 ports labeled line 1, 2 and phone are
these for a modem? Why 2 lines?
Any sources for disks?
8811
days inactive
8823
days old
38 comments
21 participants
participants (21)
-
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
blstuart＠bellsouth.net -
dpeschel＠eskimo.com -
eric＠brouhaha.com -
foo＠siconic.com -
jfoust＠threedee.com -
jhellige＠earthlink.net -
jim＠calico.litterbox.com -
jimdavis＠gorge.net -
jimw＠agora.rdrop.com -
John.Allain＠donnelley.infousa.com -
KenzieM＠sympatico.ca -
leec＠slip.net -
lemay＠cs.umn.edu -
mikeford＠socal.rr.com -
mrbill＠mrbill.net -
ncherry＠home.net -
rdd＠smart.net -
richard＠idcomm.com -
rigdonj＠intellistar.net -
THETechnoid＠home.com