---snip--- Hi The only thing I miss on a 8 bit machine is the lack of space for large data sets. I've never ran out of code space in my 15 year ( when I was doing embedded stuff ). Then I could never understand what happened to all the space that most of today's compilers use. I've always used a combination of assembly and Forth for embedded stuff. I had to work with a few applications written by others that were in C and found it very difficult to stay within RAM limits for even simple applications. When I first saw languages like SmalTalk, looking at the description, I thought that finally someone was doing something right. They talked about the efficiency of reuse and such ( concepts that are natural to Forth ). Then I tried it and found that it was more bloated than the C programs I was dealing with. The other thing that bothers me is that today we have computers that can run several thousands of times faster than an 8080 IMSAI. Still, it takes 5 to 10 minutes to boot that machine. My IMSAI boots faster than I can reach is because the machine has to figure out what the I/O looks like on each boot ( of course, MS rejected OpenBoot for PCI boards that could have improved the boot time ). I find that applications written for these new and more powerful computers that have been doubling in capabilities every year are becoming garbaged up at a rate that is faster than the computer get better. I doubt there is anyone that works for MS that even knows if 50% of the software that they release is even being usefully run under any condition ( maybe even 80% ). I believe that there complexity will eventually bring them to the point that even hiring the entire graduating class of computer science students will not fix. Just my ramblings Dwight