28 Aug
2001
28 Aug
'01
5:52 a.m.
Sounds like you've discovered the classiccmp version of the "guess the
number of pennies in the jar and win $100" game. A grand prize of 300
5.25" floppies goes to the person who can correctly name all the connectors
on the back of the most obscure machine that Fred can come up with. <grin>
- M.S.
"Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" <cisin@xenosoft.com>@classiccmp.org on 08/27/2001
11:22:45 AM
Please respond to classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
Sent by: owner-classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
To: "'classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org'" <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
cc:
Subject: RE: Are office people really that, umm shall we say...slow?
! > Slot 1 : Female DA15, Female DB25
15 - joystick port, 25 is printer port, and I bet these go to the same
card
as slot 5, the DB 9 and DB25 serial ports...
The most common uses in a PC for a female DA15 is joystick.
The most common uses in a PC for a FEMALE DB25 is printer.
But the FEMALE DB25 could be SCSI, and the female DB15 could be sound.
But keep in mind that Tony's machine might not be very ordinary.
! > Slot 2 : 6 Ribbon cables come out (a) ending in
a male
! > DC37, (b,c) ending
! > in female DB25s, (d,e) ending in male DB25s (narrower
! > ribbon cables than
! > b,c), (f) ending in a female DC37
! No idea, but from you, probably something homemade :-)
Hard drive controller?
EPROM programmer, expansion chassis?
Although male DB25s are most often serial, and FEMALE DB25s are most often
parallel, they also get used for a LOT of random other general purposes.
! > Slot 3 : Pushbutton switch, Mini-DIN 6
! The switch might be a reset, but no idea on the mini-din 6,
! M$ bus mouse
! perhaps?
Based on Tony's feelings about mini-din, I'd have to assume that it is a
commersial product that he has yet to get around to customizing.
Non-maskable interrupt/hardware debug assist (Atron, ...)?
! > Slot 4 : RCA phono socket, female DE9
! That's your video card I think.
The most common card for a PC with RCA socket and female DE9 is CGA.
No homemade notch for access to the 4 and 6 pin bergs?
! > Slot 5 : Female DE9, female DB25
! serial ports
FEMALE!!!!
The most common card for a PC with FEMALE DE9 and FEMALE DB25 is the IBM
"Monochrome Display and Printer"
No notch for access to the 6 pin berg?
! > Slot 6 : Female DC37
! again, I 'm not sure what a DC connector is.... is it a floppy
! controller? I can't recall the pin count.
The most common card for a PC with female DC37 is the IBM Floppy disk
controller.
But it could be SCSI, expansion chassis, or miscellaneous homebrew.
! > Slot 7 : Male DB25
! parallel port?
MALE!!!
The most common use of a MALE DB25 for a PC is serial.
! > Slot 8 : Female DC37
! ! a second floppy
controller?
Also on the back : another male DB25, female 5 pin
DIN, ! male and
female IEC mains connectors. ! ! The DB25 could be another
parallel port,
MALE!!!
serial
the din 5 your ! keyboard, and I ! don't know what
IEC
is, but since you say mains I assume that's your ! power cord and
monitor power points.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com
28 Aug
28 Aug
8:46 a.m.
New subject: Bet you can't Name that connector...
On Tue, 28 Aug 2001 mjsnodgr(a)rockwellcollins.com wrote:
Sounds like you've discovered the classiccmp
version of the "guess the
number of pennies in the jar and win $100" game. A grand prize of 300
5.25" floppies goes to the person who can correctly name all the connectors
on the back of the most obscure machine that Fred can come up with. <grin>
Sounds GREAT!
I assume that _I_ win the 300 5.25" floppies if nobody can correctly name
all of the connectors on the back of the most obscure machine that I can
come up with!
Who will be giving me the floppies? If I can include some of the boards
that I gave away in the last two years (clearing my space), I don't think
that I have much chance of losing. I could probably win a similar contest
based just on floppy stuff.
One of my 286 machines had one board DC37 female (NOT drive related)
one board DE9 female plus DB25 female, NOT video nor parallel
HINT: the two above boards were separate boards from different
manufacturers, but the DC37 and DB25 were cabled to two inputs of a switch
box.
50 pin dual row header male
DB25 female
DC37 female
DC37 female
DE9 female, NOT CGA, nor MDA, nor EGA, nor VGA, nor PGA
DE9 female, NOT video
9 floppies (2 360, 1 720K 5.25, 1 1.2M 5.25, 1 8", 1 1.4M/floptical, 1
2.8M, 1 3", 1 3.25") (NOTE: some of the floppies were connected through
switches, and could not ALL be used at the same time.)
The machine had no lid for the "case", and usually had 2 power supplies.
The machine next to it was an IBM XT with 6 floppies (no switches, all
drives active):
A: 360K
B: 360K
c: 720K 5.25
D: 720K 3.5
e: hard drive
g: 1.4M/floptical
H: 2.8M
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com
10:15 a.m.
New subject: Bet you can't Name that connector...
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12:08 p.m.
New subject: Bet you can't Name that connector...
On Tue, 28 Aug 2001, Tony Duell wrote:
Look, Fred can HAVE 300 5.25" floppies even if he loses! I mean, who the
hell really WANTS 300 5.25" floppies anyway!?
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
I assume that
_I_ win the 300 5.25" floppies if nobody can correctly name
all of the connectors on the back of the most obscure machine that I can
come up with!
No, that makes it biased in your favour. It is trivial to find cards that
nobody else will guess.... In at least one game of this type (having to
guess something set by another person), the rules are worded so that it
is in the interests of the setter to pick said thing (the machine
configuration in this case) so that 1 or 2 people guess it correctly, but
no so easy that everyone gets it. 
29 Aug
29 Aug
12:50 a.m.
New subject: Bet you can't Name that connector...
Sellam Ismail wrote:
Look, Fred can HAVE 300 5.25" floppies even if he
loses! I mean, who the
hell really WANTS 300 5.25" floppies anyway!?
I WANT them! Please reply if you will send them. Are they HD (RX33
compatible) or DSDD (RX50 compatible)?
4:27 a.m.
New subject: Bet you can't Name that connector...
>Sellam Ismail wrote:
> Look, Fred can HAVE 300 5.25" floppies even if he loses! I mean, who the
> hell really WANTS 300 5.25" floppies anyway!?
If you look through the multiple cubic yards of stuff that you got from
me, you won't find floppies. I still think that I want them.
On Wed, 29 Aug 2001, Jerome Fine wrote:
I WANT them! Please reply if you will send them. Are
they HD (RX33
compatible) or DSDD (RX50 compatible)?
IIRC, the terms for getting the disks was to guess the
contents/configuration of the machine based on the connector information
supplied. It was never clarified as to who, if anybody, was supplying the
prize.
So far, Tony has been the only entrant. As expected, his guesses are
excellent, BUT, ... they aren't all right, so there is still plenty of
opportunity to win. What percentage does he have to get right to win?
(If NOBODY wins, then I hope to claim the prize.)
All of the boards are commercial products, and although some of them are
moderately unusual, _I_ don't consider any of them to be exceptionally
rare.
Most of them will be available for sale at VCF.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com
5:43 a.m.
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7:55 a.m.
New subject: Bet you can't Name that connector...
> > No, that makes it biased in your favour. It
is trivial to find cards that
> > nobody else will guess.... In at least one game of this type (having to
> > guess something set by another person), the rules are worded so that it
> > is in the interests of the setter to pick said thing (the machine
> > configuration in this case) so that 1 or 2 people guess it correctly, but
> > no so easy that everyone gets it.
Rather than assemble a machine with my weirdest cards, (which WOULD be an
unfair challenge), I described a machine that was in daily use in my
office (until I closed the office a year ago). That way, I thought that I
DID make it such that a few people could guess them. But so far, you seem
to be the only one. Some of that stuff will be available at VCF, if
anybody is interested.
> Look, Fred can HAVE 300 5.25" floppies even
if he loses! I mean, who the
On Wed, 29 Aug 2001, Tony Duell wrote:
Sure, but a contest that nobody can possibly win is
not much fun IMHO.
There's still the possibility of proportional distribution. Since you're
the only one who has even tried, we can split the disks. You've already
won a significant portion of them. IF anybody ever actually comes through
with them!
To improve the odds slightly:
a major hint (relating to more than one card):
there has never been a parallel (centronics style) printer connected to
the machine, although there could have been. Since that gives away that a
female DB25 is, indeed, a parallel port, then based on what you already
know about the machine, what IS connected there?
hell really
WANTS 300 5.25" floppies anyway!?
Err, since 5.25" floppies are not easy
to find any more, and since most
of use on thls list have at least one machine that uses them, then I
would guess many people here could use them.
I bought 3 plastic carrier bags full of bulk-erased RX50 disks a few
years back and I am darn glad I did. 80 cylinder 5.25" disks are
particularly hard to find now. 
9:41 a.m.
New subject: Bet you can't Name that connector...
On Wed, 29 Aug 2001, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote:
I'm surprised at the level of problems that you have had with using 360K
(300 Oerstedt) diskettes as 720K (300 Oerstedt) disks, particularly since
a number of manufacturers freely acknowledge that they are chemically the
same, and differ only in testing requirements (If there were NO flaws,
they are the same). Could they really be that close to the edge of
testing specs?
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com
Not in my experience. I have used generic 5.25" DSDD disks
interchangeably for 360/390 and 720 with only the exceptional problem.
And that problem was as commonly found making a 360/390 recording as
a 720.
- don
> > No,
that makes it biased in your favour. It is trivial to find cards that
> > nobody else will guess.... In at least one game of this type (having to
> > guess something set by another person), the rules are worded so that it
> > is in the interests of the setter to pick said thing (the machine
> > configuration in this case) so that 1 or 2 people guess it correctly, but
> > no so easy that everyone gets it.
Rather than assemble a machine with my weirdest cards, (which WOULD be an
unfair challenge), I described a machine that was in daily use in my
office (until I closed the office a year ago). That way, I thought that I
DID make it such that a few people could guess them. But so far, you seem
to be the only one. Some of that stuff will be available at VCF, if
anybody is interested.
> Look, Fred can HAVE 300 5.25" floppies
even if he loses! I mean, who the
On Wed, 29 Aug 2001, Tony Duell wrote:
Sure, but a contest that nobody can possibly win
is not much fun IMHO.
There's still the possibility of proportional distribution. Since you're
the only one who has even tried, we can split the disks. You've already
won a significant portion of them. IF anybody ever actually comes through
with them!
To improve the odds slightly:
a major hint (relating to more than one card):
there has never been a parallel (centronics style) printer connected to
the machine, although there could have been. Since that gives away that a
female DB25 is, indeed, a parallel port, then based on what you already
know about the machine, what IS connected there?
hell
really WANTS 300 5.25" floppies anyway!?
Err, since 5.25" floppies are
not easy to find any more, and since most
of use on thls list have at least one machine that uses them, then I
would guess many people here could use them.
I bought 3 plastic carrier bags full of bulk-erased RX50 disks a few
years back and I am darn glad I did. 80 cylinder 5.25" disks are
particularly hard to find now.
10:37 a.m.
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12:29 p.m.
New subject: Answers (was: Bet you can't Name that connector...
> To improve the odds slightly:
> a major hint (relating to more than one card):
> there has never been a parallel (centronics style) printer connected to
> the machine, although there could have been. Since that gives away that a
> female DB25 is, indeed, a parallel port, then based on what you already
> know about the machine, what IS connected there?
On Wed, 29 Aug 2001, Tony Duell wrote:
If it was my machine I would say something like a PROM
programmer or
PAL/GAL programmer, or something like that. But you said this was an
I had two
other machines on the next table over from it that had PROM
programmers (One was a "Sunshine", I don't remember what the other one
was).
office machine (not a lab machine) so I guess it's
not that.
NO, I said that it was used IN my office. That wouldn't make my scope or
soldering stuff "office equipment" either. It was used for desktop
publishing and some disk format conversion. I had some other machines
across the room that WERE office (telephone log, shipping, accounting,
etc.)
To make use of the first hint (DB25 and DC37 cabled to a switch box), you
would have to consider what kinds of things used DB25 and DC37
interchangeably. There was no parallel printer. But to do desktop
publishing, there would usually be a printer. The first two cards were
both controllers for CX laser printer. One was a JLaser Plus, which used
a DB25 female cabled to the CX engine (in this case through a switch box),
and had a DE9 female for scanner.
I don't remember for sure what the other laser printer controller was -
maybe an Eiconscript.
The other female DB25 (parallel) was used for a MicroSolutions
"Backpack" parallel port 2.8M floppy.
The 50 pin dual row header was, as you had guessed, SCSI. It was used for
a floptical (1.4M/20M floppy)
If the DE9 that's not MDA/CGA/EGA/PGC is some
high-res mono video then
You were right. It was a Wyse 700/Amdek 1280 (1280 x 800
B&W video)
The other DE9 female was, as you had guessed, bus mouse.
maybe you have a scanner connected here.
Had a
Canon IX12 connected for a while to the Jlaser Plus, but it never
worked very well.
Or I gueesed you had at least one tape controller. So
maybe you have some
parallel port storage device (tape streamer, Zip drive, etc)
No permanently connected tape. Occasionally I would connect an Irwin tape
in place of one of the floppies.
I think so. When 80 cylinder disks were in common use,
then it made sense
for manufacturers to make only one type of disk, which was
80-cylinder-capable. When the only sort of DD disks that were commonly
used were the 40 cylinder '360K' ones, then I guess manufacturers could
get away with only making disks specified for that use, and they could
make slightly poorer and cheaper disks as a result.
If anybody ever comes up with the prize, then you can have most or all of
the 80 cyl spec'ed 300 Oerstedts.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com
12:44 p.m.
New subject: VERY old FOCAL snippets and programs
I've just run onto (with the aid of a friend) some FOCAL code, if anybody would
like to look at it. I'm working on getting that FOCAL interpreter for the 6502,
specifically the APPLE][ running APEX, in machine readable form, but ran into
these bits of FOCAL source code for FOCAL-65, which was patterned after DEC
FOCAL.
Email me and I'll send you the ZIP file containing them.
Dick
30 Aug
30 Aug
9:18 a.m.
New subject: Answers (was: Bet you can't Name that connector...
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12:16 p.m.
New subject: Laser printer controllers (was: Answers (was: Bet you can't Name that connector...
> To make use of the first hint (DB25 and DC37
cabled to a switch box), you
> would have to consider what kinds of things used DB25 and DC37
> interchangeably. There was no parallel printer. But to do desktop
> publishing, there would usually be a printer. The first two cards were
> both controllers for CX laser printer. One was a JLaser Plus, which used
> a DB25 female cabled to the CX engine (in this case through a switch box),
> and had a DE9 female for scanner.
On Thu, 30 Aug 2001, Tony Duell wrote:
I feel _very_ stupid... I should have got this. Not
only do I remember
that interface, I am also one of the few people here who's converted an
old LBP8A1 into a CX-VDO, has hacked the printer engine, and has debugged
the PERQ Canon CX interface card. Oh well...
Well, ...
I have available:
2? Cordata (aka Corona Data Systems) controllers for connection to CX
mechanism (CXVDO) They have their own easy page description
language/formatting codes, and their own fonts that are supported by the
Poems Font Editor, which will also convert HP soft fonts. Early versions
of XenoFont will work with it for doing text screen printouts (as used in
many Sybex books), The Cordata controller software that I have with them
refuses to run on 286 or above!
1 Eiconscript controller for laser engines. Includes emulation of
Postscript and emulation of HP PCL. Will work on 286 and above.
Lots of Jlaser. (a few totes full) Have sockets for "lots" of memory.
Some (Jlaser PLUS) have provision for driving Canon IX12 scanner, in
addition to the laser printer. Some others have disk controllers,
parallel ports, etc. in addition. Can be used with CX, or SX (special
adapter required?), and can be configured (on SX?) to still permit
parallel and serial operatiuon.
I've already sold off the CX engines, but the fellow who got them might
bwe willing to part with a few.
Seriously, I am prepared to donate any prize that I
may have won to
somebody who is going to use the floppies. Rather than just have them
sitting on the shelf for the rest of time...
I think that the contest was entirely hypothetical, and I really don't
think that anybody ever actually had the diskettes available for the
prize. Except maybe Sellam, who might want to do some sort of contest at
VCF,
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com
31 Aug
31 Aug
5:38 a.m.
New subject: Laser printer controllers (was: Answers (was: Bet you can't Name
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29 Aug
29 Aug
1:57 p.m.
New subject: Bet you can't Name that connector...
Sellam Ismail skrev:
Look, Fred can HAVE 300 5.25" floppies even if he
loses! I mean, who the
hell really WANTS 300 5.25" floppies anyway!?
C64 warez traders?
--
En ligne avec Thor 2.6a.
G? med i SUGA, Swedish Usergroup of Amiga!
WWW: http://swedish.usergroup.amiga.tm/
BBS: 08-6582572, telnet sua.ath.cx, port 42512.
12:25 p.m.
New subject: Bet you can't Name that connector...
> Sounds GREAT!
> I assume that _I_ win the 300 5.25" floppies if nobody can correctly name
> all of the connectors on the back of the most obscure machine that I can
> come up with!
On Tue, 28 Aug 2001, Tony Duell wrote:
No, that makes it biased in your favour. It is trivial
to find cards that
nobody else will guess.... In at least one game of this type (having to
guess something set by another person), the rules are worded so that it
is in the interests of the setter to pick said thing (the machine
configuration in this case) so that 1 or 2 people guess it correctly, but
no so easy that everyone gets it.
OK
Maybe I should just split the disks with Tony,
Who's providing them?
Are they hard sectored or soft?
One of my 286
machines had one board DC37 female (NOT drive related)
Hmmm.. I assume
'drive' includes tape drives (I've seen DC37s used for
QIC32, etc).
Maybe a multi-port serial card.
one board DE9 female plus DB25 female, NOT video
nor parallel
HINT: the two above boards were separate boards from different
manufacturers, but the DC37 and DB25 were cabled to two inputs of a switch
box.
I've seen at least one _odd_ serial card (I think it was Z8530-based)
with that pair of connectors. 50 pin dual
row header male
QIC tape? SCSI? Custom TTL level I/O? I've even seen a pertec
tape
controller card with a single 50 pin header on it (and a special cable to
the tape drive, of course). DB25 female
I asusme this is not printer. Maybe SCSI? DC37 female
DC37 female
External floppies? Tape drive? DE9 female,
NOT CGA, nor MDA, nor EGA, nor VGA, nor PGA
You've not said 'not video'
here, so I am going to guess that it's either
that NEC form of VGA that used a DE9, or maybe some strange high-res mono
video (Signma made something like this I think) DE9 female,
NOT video
There was a card that gave the PC an Apple Mac-like 9 pin female serial
port (you could use it to connect the PC to an Appletalk network). Maybe
that.
Or a bus mouse card?
1:57 p.m.
New subject: Bet you can't Name that connector...
Tony Duell skrev:
> DE9 female, NOT CGA, nor MDA, nor EGA, nor VGA,
nor PGA
You've not said 'not video' here, so I am
going to guess that it's either
that NEC form of VGA that used a DE9, or maybe some strange high-res mono
video (Signma made something like this I think)
He said "nor VGA", didn't he?
It's true that Sigma have used D9 on their monitors, though. It's been a while
since I looked at a Sigma card, though.
--
En ligne avec Thor 2.6a.
When cherry tree blooms, people go and walk there, eat dumpling, bring sake
and talk each other such things as "A superb view!" and "Full of spring
here",
and they become very happily and cheerful. But this is a lie. People gather
below cherry trees and get drunk, vomit, fight, which are happening since the
old days of Edo period. From long time ago.
THE FULL OF CHERRY BOOLMS, CHAPTER 1
1:54 p.m.
New subject: Bet you can't Name that connector...
XenoSoft skrev:
On Tue, 28 Aug 2001 mjsnodgr(a)rockwellcollins.com
wrote:
> Sounds like you've discovered the classiccmp version of the "guess the
> number of pennies in the jar and win $100" game. A grand prize of 300
> 5.25" floppies goes to the person who can correctly name all the connectors
> on the back of the most obscure machine that Fred can come up with. <grin>
Sounds GREAT!
I assume that _I_ win the 300 5.25" floppies if nobody can correctly name
all of the connectors on the back of the most obscure machine that I can
come up with!
Actually, I think that "nbame that board/cable" should be an obvious event at
any VCF.
--
En ligne avec Thor 2.6a.
Amiga 4000/040 25MHz/56MB/20GB RetinaBLTZ3/VLab/FastlaneZ3/Ariadne/Toccata
8297
days inactive
8300
days old
19 comments
9 participants
participants (9)
-
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
cisin＠xenosoft.com -
donm＠cts.com -
edick＠idcomm.com -
foo＠siconic.com -
jhfine＠idirect.com -
mikeford＠socal.rr.com -
mjsnodgr＠rockwellcollins.com -
optimus＠canit.se