15 Mar
2004
15 Mar
'04
6:48 a.m.
Hi folks,
This is totally nowhere near the 10 year rule since the chips have datecodes
of 9951 on 'em, but the theory of failure is the same. It's a 16 port 10/100
hub and it whistles like a bastard when its powered up. On dismantling I
find that one of the electrolytic caps on the power regulator side of things
is looking (to me) unwell in that it has a brown stain on the top over one
of the joins:
http://www.wowrarelook.co.uk/cap.jpg
I gather replacement is necessary since it's obviously on its way out?
Cheers all,
--
Adrian/Witchy
Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs
www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum
www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o(
14 Mar
14 Mar
11:11 p.m.
On Mon, 15 Mar 2004, Witchy wrote:
This is totally nowhere near the 10 year rule since
the chips have datecodes
of 9951 on 'em, but the theory of failure is the same. It's a 16 port 10/100
hub and it whistles like a bastard when its powered up. On dismantling I
find that one of the electrolytic caps on the power regulator side of things
is looking (to me) unwell in that it has a brown stain on the top over one
of the joins:
http://www.wowrarelook.co.uk/cap.jpg
I gather replacement is necessary since it's obviously on its way out?
Is this a 3Com OfficeConnect Dual Speed Hub 8? If so, I posted about this
very problem not two months ago. I was told to replace the cap. Not
surprisingly, I never got around to doing it (it's still on the list o'
things to do) so I can't tell you if that fixed the problem (mine was more
of a loud hiss) or not.
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ]
[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]
15 Mar
15 Mar
10:08 a.m.
Hi Sellam,
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces(a)classiccmp.org
[mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Vintage
Computer Festival
Sent: 15 March 2004 13:12
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: [OT] Dodgy electrolytic in 3COM hub
Is this a 3Com OfficeConnect Dual Speed Hub 8? If so, I
posted about this very problem not two months ago. I was
told to replace the cap. Not surprisingly, I never got
around to doing it (it's still on the list o'
things to do) so I can't tell you if that fixed the problem
(mine was more of a loud hiss) or not.
Yeah, I suppose you could say it was a loud hiss. Certainly enough to be
Very Annoying, even louder than the 2 machines that run here all the time! 2
months ago was the time of my Great Classiccmp Folder Meltdown so I wouldn't
be surprised if your message was in the lot that got lost before
classiccmpers came to the rescue :) A year's worth of messages to go through
- yay. Still, I'll blame Office 2003 for changing folder behaviour!
I need to get this fixed so I'll report back whether it works or not.
Cheers
--
Adrian/Witchy
Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs
www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum
www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o(
7:13 a.m.
Witchy wrote:
On dismantling I
find that one of the electrolytic caps on the power regulator side of things
is looking (to me) unwell in that it has a brown stain on the top over one
of the joins:
http://www.wowrarelook.co.uk/cap.jpg
Great domain name!
I gather replacement is necessary since it's
obviously on its way out?
Yup, that's a duff electrolytic all right. I recently replaced 15
like that one in a PC motherboard. The lowest was at 300 OHMS!
The hardest part is getting the solder out of the holes when there's
a nice solid ground plane to take all the heat away from the iron.
I got new capacitors from Farnell, about 50p each.
--
John Honniball
coredump(a)gifford.co.uk
10:12 a.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces(a)classiccmp.org
[mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of John Honniball
Sent: 15 March 2004 21:13
To: General(a)neptune.easily.co.uk;
Discussion@neptune.easily.co.uk:On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: [OT] Dodgy electrolytic in 3COM hub
Great domain name!
:oD
It had to be done once I discovered it hadn't been taken...it's the place I
host my ebay pictures for sales :)
The hardest part is getting the solder out of the
holes when
there's a nice solid ground plane to take all the heat away
from the iron.
Fortunately with this one there won't be such a problem so replacement will
be easy and I can get my VAXen and DEC3000 back on the air....
Cheers
--
Adrian/Witchy
Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs
www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum
www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o(
7:12 a.m.
-----Original
Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces(a)classiccmp.org
[mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of John Honniball
Sent: 15 March 2004 21:13
To: General(a)neptune.easily.co.uk;
Discussion@neptune.easily.co.uk:On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: [OT] Dodgy electrolytic in 3COM hub
Great domain name!
:oD
It had to be done once I discovered it hadn't been taken...it's the place I
host my ebay pictures for sales :)
Adrian/Witchy Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs
www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum
www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o(
17 Mar
17 Mar
9:59 p.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces(a)classiccmp.org
[mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of jpero(a)sympatico.ca
Sent: 15 March 2004 21:12
To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
Subject: RE: [OT] Dodgy electrolytic in 3COM hub
Beauiful photo of this swelled up electrolytic capacitor. :-)
What is that digital photo camera?
It's a Fuji 6800Zoom plus tripod 'cos without one I've never been able to
get a really clear shake-free picture; witness most of the pix on Binary
Dinosaurs :)
The 7 legged "transistor" is a efficient
regulator IC switcher that
down converts input voltage to specific voltage. Good to about 1
amp or so with little heatsinking.
This is a 3 year old 3com hub so I'd assume efficient technology in
there....
That whistle is the noise of that regulator switcher
it works
at high freq. They runs too high freqs to hear but when they
get loaded down or bad caps, they decrease in PWM (more ON
time) trying to keep voltage up (more power transfer, then u
can hear the noise. The swelled up cap is already GONE btw.
Ah right! Ta for that - I was wondering how a bust cap could make noise!
Cheers
w
15 Mar
15 Mar
8:32 a.m.
Ab-so-friggin-lutely. Bad, buldging, stained cap ='s bad cap. Same damned
thing happened on a 4 port NetGear Router I had and an ABIT KT7-A
motherboard. With the ABIT, it was a known problem to the point where 3
shops cropped up in the US just to replace the bad caps. These were termed
by ABIT as unit repair technical facilities for their Customer Service and
Technical Support teams since ABIT apparently were cheap bastards and made,
oh, 100,000 of those boards with that issue with the same faulty caps.
NetGear is known for being cheap and a similar cap as the one you pictured,
blew in the 4 port router I had. Their tech support sucked and one of these
days, I'll just replace the damned cap myself. Good luck doing it.
-John Boffemmyer IV
At 03:48 PM 3/15/2004, you wrote:
Hi folks,
This is totally nowhere near the 10 year rule since the chips have datecodes
of 9951 on 'em, but the theory of failure is the same. It's a 16 port 10/100
hub and it whistles like a bastard when its powered up. On dismantling I
find that one of the electrolytic caps on the power regulator side of things
is looking (to me) unwell in that it has a brown stain on the top over one
of the joins:
http://www.wowrarelook.co.uk/cap.jpg
I gather replacement is necessary since it's obviously on its way out?
Cheers all,
--
Adrian/Witchy
Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs
www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum
www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o(
----------------------------------------
Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst
and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies
http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html
---------------------------------------
16 Mar
16 Mar
midnight
I've got a Gigabyte motherboard from the same period with the issue ...
three caps on the board are bulging or split on top. I bought three of
the same model boards at the same time and only one of them have had
that happen.
Paul
On Mon, 2004-03-15 at 16:32, John Boffemmyer IV wrote:
Ab-so-friggin-lutely. Bad, buldging, stained cap
='s bad cap. Same damned
thing happened on a 4 port NetGear Router I had and an ABIT KT7-A
motherboard. With the ABIT, it was a known problem to the point where 3
shops cropped up in the US just to replace the bad caps. These were termed
by ABIT as unit repair technical facilities for their Customer Service and
Technical Support teams since ABIT apparently were cheap bastards and made,
oh, 100,000 of those boards with that issue with the same faulty caps.
NetGear is known for being cheap and a similar cap as the one you pictured,
blew in the 4 port router I had. Their tech support sucked and one of these
days, I'll just replace the damned cap myself. Good luck doing it.
-John Boffemmyer IV
At 03:48 PM 3/15/2004, you wrote:
Hi folks,
This is totally nowhere near the 10 year rule since the chips have datecodes
of 9951 on 'em, but the theory of failure is the same. It's a 16 port 10/100
hub and it whistles like a bastard when its powered up. On dismantling I
find that one of the electrolytic caps on the power regulator side of things
is looking (to me) unwell in that it has a brown stain on the top over one
of the joins:
http://www.wowrarelook.co.uk/cap.jpg
I gather replacement is necessary since it's obviously on its way out?
Cheers all,
--
Adrian/Witchy
Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs
www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum
www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o(
----------------------------------------
Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst
and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies
http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html
---------------------------------------
12:20 a.m.
On Tue, Mar 16, 2004 at 08:00:20AM -0600, Paul Berger wrote:
I've got a Gigabyte motherboard from the same
period with the issue ...
three caps on the board are bulging or split on top. I bought three of
the same model boards at the same time and only one of them have had
that happen.
I repaired two embedded Intel/AMD boards down here with the same issue...
Unfortunately, one went back to its old behavior of locking up as if
overheating. :-(
I pulled the caps from an ordinary dead motherboard... for some reason,
we don't stock 1000uF 6.3VDC caps... the lowest voltage (and smallest
package size) we have is 16VDC. Too large to fit (mechanical clearance
issue in a non-standard enclosure).
I've also seen plenty of motherboards back in the States in a similar
condition.
-ethan
--
Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 17-Mar-2004 02:59 Z
South Pole Station
PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -49.6 F (-45.4 C) Windchill -110.5 F (-79.2 C)
APO AP 96598 Wind 17.6 kts Grid 010 Barometer 673.4 mb (10876. ft)
Ethan.Dicks(a)amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html
1:07 a.m.
I've got a Gigabyte motherboard from the same
period with the issue ...
three caps on the board are bulging or split on top. I bought three of
the same model boards at the same time and only one of them have had
that happen.
The cap failure is due to a formulation error. The formua was stolen
from a competeing cap mfr, and they got it just a
little bit wrong. There
was a big write up about this when it was first
discovered.
g.
2:59 a.m.
On Tue, Mar 16, 2004 at 07:07:30AM -0800, Gene Buckle wrote:
The cap failure is due to a formulation error. The
formua was stolen
from a competeing cap mfr, and they got it just a little bit wrong. There
was a big write up about this when it was first discovered.
Right... it did get quite a bit of press when the news broke. As I understand
it, the part of the formula they got wrong is an outgassing inhibitor.
-ethan
--
Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 17-Mar-2004 05:49 Z
South Pole Station
PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -51.5 F (-46.4 C) Windchill -93.3 F (-69.7 C)
APO AP 96598 Wind 10.7 kts Grid 003 Barometer 674.7 mb (10828. ft)
Ethan.Dicks(a)amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html
1:48 a.m.
Actually this is an industry wide problem. It's well documented that a
certain Tawainese company made a ton of bad caps that have ended up in
everything from Sun workstations to GM electronic modules. Dell
recalled a ton of stuff due to the cap problem.
Paul Berger wrote:
I've got a Gigabyte motherboard from the same
period with the issue ...
three caps on the board are bulging or split on top. I bought three of
the same model boards at the same time and only one of them have had
that happen.
Paul
On Mon, 2004-03-15 at 16:32, John Boffemmyer IV wrote:
>Ab-so-friggin-lutely. Bad, buldging, stained cap ='s bad cap. Same damned
>thing happened on a 4 port NetGear Router I had and an ABIT KT7-A
>motherboard. With the ABIT, it was a known problem to the point where 3
>shops cropped up in the US just to replace the bad caps. These were termed
>by ABIT as unit repair technical facilities for their Customer Service and
>Technical Support teams since ABIT apparently were cheap bastards and made,
>oh, 100,000 of those boards with that issue with the same faulty caps.
>NetGear is known for being cheap and a similar cap as the one you pictured,
>blew in the 4 port router I had. Their tech support sucked and one of these
>days, I'll just replace the damned cap myself. Good luck doing it.
>
>-John Boffemmyer IV
>
>At 03:48 PM 3/15/2004, you wrote:
>
>
>>Hi folks,
>>
>>This is totally nowhere near the 10 year rule since the chips have datecodes
>>of 9951 on 'em, but the theory of failure is the same. It's a 16 port
10/100
>>hub and it whistles like a bastard when its powered up. On dismantling I
>>find that one of the electrolytic caps on the power regulator side of things
>>is looking (to me) unwell in that it has a brown stain on the top over one
>>of the joins:
>>
>>http://www.wowrarelook.co.uk/cap.jpg
>>
>>I gather replacement is necessary since it's obviously on its way out?
>>
>>Cheers all,
>>
>>
>>
15 Mar
15 Mar
8:44 a.m.
In message <E1B2z0W-0005wo-0W(a)anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net>
"Witchy" <witchy(a)binarydinosaurs.co.uk> wrote:
http://www.wowrarelook.co.uk/cap.jpg
I gather replacement is necessary since it's obviously on its way out?
"On
its way out" is probably the understatement of the year. I say replace
it. Check all the caps carefully - if the cover is bulging or there's brown
sludge on the top of it (or - shock horror - leaking out underneath it), then
replace it.
I've had good results with the Panasonic low-ESR 105C electrolytics that
Farnell are selling. They're usually a bit bigger than the original caps
(IME) and they're usually near the top of the price range, but they should
last a good long while.
Is there any branding on the cap in the photo? I had to recap a Grundig
SkyDigibox not long ago - nasty little beggar. Full of cheapo Taiwanese
capacitors (no offence intended to the Taiwanese) - "TAYEH" or something like
that. I think I spent a good twenty minutes hacking off all the white
silicone goop that Grundig so helpfully covered the capacitors in. Bletch.
Later.
--
Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB,
philpem(a)dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice,
http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI
... It's dangerous to be right when the government is wrong. -Voltaire-
16 Mar
16 Mar
1:56 a.m.
New subject: ESR meters (Was: Re: [OT] Dodgy electrolytic in 3COM hub)
For anyone wanting to build one, there's a simple ESR meter schematic
and some construction data at:
http://www.albany.net/~gwoods/esr_meter/esr_meter_index.html
However it doesn't say what the calibration procedure is so I'm not sure
how you're supposed to do initial calibration of the unit without a
known-good ESR meter to use for reference...
cheers
Jules
11:21 p.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces(a)classiccmp.org
[mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Philip Pemberton
Sent: 15 March 2004 22:45
To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: [OT] Dodgy electrolytic in 3COM hub
"On its way out" is probably the understatement of the year.
I'm good at that :)
Is there any branding on the cap in the photo? I had
to recap
'Gloria' don'tcha know. I've got the Farnell part number here, 767360,
any
chance you can nip up to the trade counter for me? I don't want to create a
?10 order for a 50p capacitor :)
Fortunately there's only been a tiny bit of marking on the inner metal
lining of the top of the case; no signs of underneath leakage or owt nasty.
There's a bit more height available if the replacement cap is a bit
bigger.....
Cheers!
--
Adrian/Witchy
Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs
www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum
www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o(
7586
days inactive
7589
days old
15 comments
11 participants
participants (11)
-
coredump＠gifford.co.uk -
dickset＠amanda.spole.gov -
geneb＠deltasoft.com -
john_boffemmyer_iv＠boff-net.dhs.org -
jpero＠sympatico.ca -
jrice54＠charter.net -
julesrichardsonuk＠yahoo.co.uk -
philpem＠dsl.pipex.com -
sanepsycho＠globaldialog.com -
vcf＠siconic.com -
witchy＠binarydinosaurs.co.uk