26 Oct
2019
26 Oct
'19
2 a.m.
Hi all,
Back in the 70's and 80's Philips had a quite popular series of mini
computers called P800, which also branched out to the PTS series and
possibly other.
Could I be lucky to find other list members interested in these
products? I know of a few, but there surely must be others. I'm trying
to collect what is left of the documentation.
73, Nico
26 Oct
26 Oct
10:44 a.m.
On Sat, Oct 26, 2019 at 6:36 PM nico de jong via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Hi all,
Back in the 70's and 80's Philips had a quite popular series of mini
computers called P800, which also branched out to the PTS series and
possibly other.
Could I be lucky to find other list members interested in these
products? I know of a few, but there surely must be others. I'm trying
to collect what is left of the documentation.
My first minicomputer (which I still have and can see from where I am sitting)
was a Philips P850. I now also own a P851 and a P854 (both with floppy drives)
and lots of spares.
As for documentation I have the CPU (only) technical manual for the P850,
the 2 volumes of schematics for the P851 and the preliminary manual (alas
without the microcode source) for the P854. Some other schematics for
things like the P854's PSU, the 4 channel serial port, floppy disk system, etc.
User manuals for at least the P850 and P851. And some software-related
manuals, manuals on related machines, etc but I would have to check exactly
what I have there.
-tony
10:53 a.m.
On 2019-10-26 19:44, Tony Duell via cctalk wrote:
On Sat, Oct 26, 2019 at 6:36 PM nico de jong via
cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Hi Tony
The manuals you mention, don't ring a bell.
We have now more-or-less rejuvenated a PTS6813 aka P857, although
without the discs.
Furthermore, we have the parts to build a P852 from spare parts.
In order to test things, I've developped a simulator and assembler for
the P857, although without floating point and I/O processor, as I have
no documentation for that, so maybe I can harvest something from the
documents you have. Are the mailable, or do you need to scan them first?
Thanks
Nico
Hi all,
Back in the 70's and 80's Philips had a quite popular series of mini
computers called P800, which also branched out to the PTS series and
possibly other.
Could I be lucky to find other list members interested in these
products? I know of a few, but there surely must be others. I'm trying
to collect what is left of the documentation.
My first minicomputer (which I still
have and can see from where I am sitting)
was a Philips P850. I now also own a P851 and a P854 (both with floppy drives)
and lots of spares.
As for documentation I have the CPU (only) technical manual for the P850,
the 2 volumes of schematics for the P851 and the preliminary manual (alas
without the microcode source) for the P854. Some other schematics for
things like the P854's PSU, the 4 channel serial port, floppy disk system, etc.
User manuals for at least the P850 and P851. And some software-related
manuals, manuals on related machines, etc but I would have to check exactly
what I have there.
-tony' 
10:59 a.m.
Are we talking about ISA-bus computers here?? If so the colour graphics
card was a Persyst Bob card, and the bi-sync adapter, if equipped, was
also made by Persyst.? I know because I signed them to the contract to
buy those two items. I know about their high standards of Quality
Control because they rejected about 1/3 of my initial shipments!
In 1985, every computer that included a CRT made by Philips was made at
their factory in Ste. Laurent, QC, or so their engineers told me.
cheers,
Nigel (then known as Bill) Johnson
On 26/10/2019 13:53, nico de jong via cctalk wrote:
On 2019-10-26 19:44, Tony Duell via cctalk wrote:
--
Nigel Johnson
MSc., MIEEE
VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU
Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!
You can reach me by voice on Skype: TILBURY2591
If time travel ever will be possible, it already is. Ask me again yesterday
This e-mail is not and cannot, by its nature, be confidential. En route from me to you, it
will pass across the public Internet, easily readable by any number of system
administrators along the way.
Nigel Johnson <nw.johnson at ieee.org>
Please consider the environment when deciding if you really need to print this message
On Sat, Oct 26, 2019 at 6:36 PM nico de jong via
cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Hi Tony
The manuals you mention, don't ring a bell.
We have now more-or-less rejuvenated a PTS6813 aka P857, although
without the discs.
Furthermore, we have the parts to build a P852 from spare parts.
In order to test things, I've developped a simulator and assembler for
the P857, although without floating point and I/O processor, as I have
no documentation for that, so maybe I can harvest something from the
documents you have. Are the mailable, or do you need to scan them first?
Thanks
Nico
Hi all,
Back in the 70's and 80's Philips had a quite popular series of mini
computers called P800, which also branched out to the PTS series and
possibly other.
Could I be lucky to find other list members interested in these
products? I know of a few, but there surely must be others. I'm trying
to collect what is left of the documentation.
My first minicomputer (which I still
have and can see from where I am
sitting)
was a Philips P850. I now also own a P851 and a P854 (both with
floppy drives)
and lots of spares.
As for documentation I have the CPU (only) technical manual for the
P850,
the 2 volumes of schematics for the P851 and the preliminary manual
(alas
without the microcode source) for the P854. Some other schematics for
things like the P854's PSU, the 4 channel serial port, floppy disk
system, etc.
User manuals for at least the P850 and P851. And some software-related
manuals, manuals on related machines, etc but I would have to check
exactly
what I have there.
-tony'
27 Oct
27 Oct
5:38 a.m.
No, we are not. The P800 series used a card format, the name of which
escapes me at the momen, but I believe it started with an M. The only
experience with Philips computers, other then the P800 series, is the
P2000. It was marketed by Philips Austria, and was a pre-PC system. I
believe there was a CP/M based P3000, but I'm not quite sure.
Cheers
Nico
There is a backplane, and each card can have two or three extra
connectors at the back, similar to the one in the middle, going to the
backplane.
On 2019-10-26 19:59, Nigel Johnson via cctalk wrote:
Are we talking about ISA-bus computers here?? If so
the colour
graphics card was a Persyst Bob card, and the bi-sync adapter, if
equipped, was also made by Persyst.? I know because I signed them to
the contract to buy those two items. I know about their high standards
of Quality Control because they rejected about 1/3 of my initial
shipments!
In 1985, every computer that included a CRT made by Philips was made
at their factory in Ste. Laurent, QC, or so their engineers told me.
cheers,
Nigel (then known as Bill) Johnson
On 26/10/2019 13:53, nico de jong via cctalk wrote:
On 2019-10-26 19:44, Tony Duell via cctalk wrote:
On Sat, Oct 26, 2019 at 6:36 PM nico de jong via
cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Back in the 70's and 80's Philips had a quite popular series of mini
> computers called P800, which also branched out to the PTS series and
> possibly other.
>
> Could I be lucky to find other list members interested in these
> products? I know of a few, but there surely must be others. I'm trying
> t
26 Oct
26 Oct
11:01 a.m.
On Sat, Oct 26, 2019 at 6:53 PM nico de jong via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
In order to test things, I've developped a
simulator and assembler for
the P857, although without floating point and I/O processor, as I have
no documentation for that, so maybe I can harvest something from the
documents you have. Are the mailable, or do you need to scan them first?
I would have to get them scanned.
The technical manuals are looseleaf in ring binders so could go
through a sheetfeed
scanner if I can find somebody with one. The user manuals are
paperback books and
would be very hard to scan without damage (needless to say I am not prepared to
ruin them!)
-tony
27 Oct
27 Oct
5:40 a.m.
On 2019-10-26 20:01, Tony Duell via cctalk wrote:
On Sat, Oct 26, 2019 at 6:53 PM nico de jong via
cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Hi Tony
Of course you shouldnt ruin your books:-) so let's hope someone else has
them in a mailable format
Thanks
Nico
In order to test things, I've developped a
simulator and assembler for
the P857, although without floating point and I/O processor, as I have
no documentation for that, so maybe I can harvest something from the
documents you have. Are the mailable, or do you need to scan them first?
I would
have to get them scanned.
The technical manuals are looseleaf in ring binders so could go through a sheetfeed
scanner if I can find somebody with one. The user manuals are paperback books and
would be very hard to scan without damage (needless to say I am not prepared to
ruin them!)
-tony 
28 Oct
28 Oct
1:37 a.m.
On Sat, 26 Oct 2019, nico de jong wrote:
> As for documentation I have the CPU (only)
technical manual for the P850,
> the 2 volumes of schematics for the P851 and the preliminary manual (alas
> without the microcode source) for the P854. Some other schematics for
> things like the P854's PSU, the 4 channel serial port, floppy disk system,
> etc.
[...]
In order to test things, I've developped a
simulator and assembler for the
P857, although without floating point and I/O processor, as I have no
documentation for that, so maybe I can harvest something from the documents
you have. Are the mailable, or do you need to scan them first?
I have the P856M/P857M service manual online (actually for 11 years now ;-) )
It's the first hit from Google if you search for it.
This manual includes detailed description of the CPU, including the I/O
processor (appendix B), the MMU (appendix C) and the FPP (appendix D).
Christian
2:22 a.m.
On 2019-10-28 09:37, Christian Corti via cctalk wrote:
On Sat, 26 Oct 2019, nico de jong wrote:
That depends on what you put in the search field. The first one I found,
was my own manual on datamuseum.dk :-)
Anyway, I found some other very interesting things on your page, such as
the layout of the SSSD floppy, so my wiki will benefit of some serious
enhancements
Thanks
Nico
> As for documentation I have the CPU (only)
technical manual for the
> P850,
> the 2 volumes of schematics for the P851 and the preliminary manual
> (alas
> without the microcode source) for the P854. Some other schematics for
> things like the P854's PSU, the 4 channel serial port, floppy disk
> system, etc.
[...]
In order to test things, I've developped a
simulator and assembler
for the P857, although without floating point and I/O processor, as I
have no documentation for that, so maybe I can harvest something from
the documents you have. Are the mailable, or do you need to scan them
first?
I have the P856M/P857M service manual online (actually for 11 years
now ;-) )
It's the first hit from Google if you search for it.
This manual includes detailed description of the CPU, including the
I/O processor (appendix B), the MMU (appendix C) and the FPP (appendix
D).
Christian 
26 Oct
26 Oct
11:13 a.m.
On 26.10.19 11:00, nico de jong via cctech wrote:
Hi all,
Back in the 70's and 80's Philips had a quite popular series of mini computers
called P800, which also branched out to the PTS series and possibly other.
Could I be lucky to find other list members interested in these products? I know of a
few, but there surely must be others. I'm trying to collect what is left of the
documentation.
73, Nico
Wel I am of course, but then you knew that !
Currently I have -:
- a P857
- a P856 missing the box, PS & backplane ( simple enough to reproduce )
- a measuring system based on the P854 CPU ( the same I brought you )
- a P851, missing the backplane, frontpanel,? a serial card and the PSU.
- 2 single-chip P800 CPU's
I have documentation on the P852, P956, P833 digital cassette
On software side not much : a single cassette with Fortran & manuals.
Yes, we should get Al interested in these ! But AFAIK they never made in to the US.
Regards, Jos
27 Oct
27 Oct
5:43 a.m.
On 2019-10-26 20:13, jos via cctalk wrote:
On 26.10.19 11:00, nico de jong via cctech wrote:
Hi Jos
It's nice to know exactly what you have. I'll put it in a spread sheet,
which I'll distribute eventually. It would be nice if we could assemble
some working systems from spare parts laying around. Seems to be a
winter project, just to collect the data :-)
I'll be in touch
/Nico
Hi all,
Back in the 70's and 80's Philips had a quite popular series of mini
computers called P800, which also branched out to the PTS series and
possibly other.
Could I be lucky to find other list members interested in these
products? I know of a few, but there surely must be others. I'm
trying to collect what is left of the documentation.
73, Nico
Wel I am of course, but then you knew that !
Currently I have -:
- a P857
- a P856 missing the box, PS & backplane ( simple enough to reproduce )
- a measuring system based on the P854 CPU ( the same I brought you )
- a P851, missing the backplane, frontpanel,? a serial card and the PSU.
- 2 single-chip P800 CPU's
I have documentation on the P852, P956, P833 digital cassette
On software side not much : a single cassette with Fortran & manuals.
Yes, we should get Al interested in these ! But AFAIK they never made
in to the US.
Regards, Jos
8:21 a.m.
On 2019-10-27 15:56, Christian Corti via cctalk wrote:
On Sat, 26 Oct 2019, jos wrote:
If my experience on the P800 series is anything to go by, I can offer
some kind of explanation.
The P800 series came two flavours : development system and turnkey
system. A development system was harddisc based, for example the
diskdrives X1215 and X1216, both having a fixed platter and an
exchangeable cartride. The drives had 2 x? (2.5 or 5 MB).
'The development system could use an operating system like MAS, DOM (a
very stupid name, as DOM in Dutch means STUPID), DOS or DRTM,
Then you could generate turnkey systems, where the "operating system"
could be floppy or cassette (ECMA34) based,
Turnkey systems typically controlled process equipment and the like,
where operator intervention was very limited, normally limited to
pushing a few buttons on an operator panel, or to load new programs.
/>Nico
On software side not much : a single cassette
with Fortran & manuals.
That is also the problem with our P856, I have a single-density FDC
with floppy drives but no floppy based operating system.
Christian
28 Oct
28 Oct
1:43 a.m.
On Sun, 27 Oct 2019, nico de jong wrote:
Then you could generate turnkey systems, where the
"operating system" could
be floppy or cassette (ECMA34) based,
Turnkey systems typically controlled process equipment and the like, where
operator intervention was very limited, normally limited to pushing a few
buttons on an operator panel, or to load new programs.
I do have a bunch of floppies for whatever P800 series machine, but none
of them seem to run or boot on our machine. The images are also on our FTP
server along with the service manual. Maybe you can use them in some
manner.
Christian
5:05 a.m.
On 2019-10-28 09:43, Christian Corti via cctalk wrote:
On Sun, 27 Oct 2019, nico de jong wrote:
Seems like a nice little project for the coming winter.
I'll download the floppies, and see what they are, to start with
Nico
Then you could generate turnkey systems, where
the "operating system"
could be floppy or cassette (ECMA34) based,
Turnkey systems typically controlled process equipment and the like,
where operator intervention was very limited, normally limited to
pushing a few buttons on an operator panel, or to load new programs.
I do have a bunch of floppies for whatever P800 series machine, but
none of them seem to run or boot on our machine. The images are also
on our FTP server along with the service manual. Maybe you can use
them in some manner.
Christian
6:17 a.m.
On 2019-10-28 09:43, Christian Corti via cctalk wrote:
On Sun, 27 Oct 2019, nico de jong wrote:
I had a quick look at 6_0.bin. It has a normal layout, 1 boot sector to
start with, 1 user, 3 files. two of which are Load Modules (= programs),
the last one is a textfile with paramters etc. The program seems to be
for testing something, accordng to the texts? I found. My guess is that
the user communication is to and from a Teletype ASR or Philips PER3100
operator console or similar.
Could I talk you into zipping the contents of that directory and mail it
to me, or save it as one zip file in that directory?
Nico
Then you could generate turnkey systems, where
the "operating system"
could be floppy or cassette (ECMA34) based,
Turnkey systems typically controlled process equipment and the like,
where operator intervention was very limited, normally limited to
pushing a few buttons on an operator panel, or to load new programs.
I do have a bunch of floppies for whatever P800 series machine, but
none of them seem to run or boot on our machine. The images are also
on our FTP server along with the service manual. Maybe you can use
them in some manner.
Christian 
12:41 p.m.
also helps if u google stuff quik google found this site with lots on
the 856m 857
http://www.vaxbarn.com/p800/home.html
im more interested in the p1000 series my self actually has one of the 3
sales models built in the 60's for that system but thats a big iron
On Sat, Oct 26, 2019 at 2:30 PM Adrian Stoness <tdk.knight at gmail.com> wrote:
27 Oct
27 Oct
5:57 a.m.
Yes, I know of Vaxbarn. I have copied many of Camiels manuals, and he
has copied a lot of mine. I visited him and his lovely wife a few years
ago. Very agreeable people (and nice kids...)
I know about the P1000, but I've never seen one "on the flesh". When I
started to work for Philips Data Systems in 1980, it was already retired.
/Nico
On 2019-10-26 21:41, Adrian Stoness via cctalk wrote:
also helps if u google stuff quik google found this
site with lots on
the 856m 857
http://www.vaxbarn.com/p800/home.html
im more interested in the p1000 series my self actually has one of the 3
sales models built in the 60's for that system but thats a big iron
On Sat, Oct 26, 2019 at 2:30 PM Adrian Stoness <tdk.knight at gmail.com> wrote:
> mean like this
> https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x795q90/r/922/b5tczU.jpg
> https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x533q90/r/922/XYBanl.jpg
> https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1000x186q90/r/922/RCQmCW.jpg
>
5:53 a.m.
Yes, exactly.
Do you have the manuals in a mailable version?
Cheers
Nico
On 2019-10-26 21:30, Adrian Stoness via cctalk wrote:
26 Oct
26 Oct
5:38 p.m.
On Oct 26, 2019, at 5:00 AM, nico de jong via cctech
<cctech at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Hi all,
Back in the 70's and 80's Philips had a quite popular series of mini computers
called P800, which also branched out to the PTS series and possibly other.
I don't remember those; I do remember a Philips mini called the PR8000. That was
apparently designed for industrial control, at least judging by the marketing brochure I
have for it. It's the machine on which I learned assembly language programming. 24
bit machine, French mnemonics. Very interesting interrupt system. I've never seen
any documents about it other than that one short 10-page marketing sheet.
Then there was a 16 bit Philips minicomputer, P9200? Saw it at the Evoluon in Eindhoven
where it controlled an interactive sculpture called the Senster. That has been preserved
apparently; it would be neat to do a simulation of it.
paul
5:45 p.m.
phillips when they ventured into the mini world start out by rebadging the
honeywell 316 witch i think is what your talking about
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x533q90/r/924/RfzStB.jpg
On Sat, Oct 26, 2019 at 7:38 PM Paul Koning via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
On Oct 26, 2019, at 5:00 AM, nico de jong via
cctech <
cctech at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Hi all,
Back in the 70's and 80's Philips had a quite popular series of mini
computers called P800, which also branched out to the PTS series and
possibly other.
I don't remember those; I do remember a Philips mini called the PR8000.
That was apparently designed for industrial control, at least judging by
the marketing brochure I have for it. It's the machine on which I learned
assembly language programming. 24 bit machine, French mnemonics. Very
interesting interrupt system. I've never seen any documents about it other
than that one short 10-page marketing sheet.
Then there was a 16 bit Philips minicomputer, P9200? Saw it at the
Evoluon in Eindhoven where it controlled an interactive sculpture called
the Senster. That has been preserved apparently; it would be neat to do a
simulation of it.
paul
27 Oct
27 Oct
6:15 a.m.
The Honeywell does not look like a P800, and to the best of my knowledge
Philips (with one L) did their own development in the mini sector.
However, I do know that for example one of their text processing
systems, one in the P5000 range (the P5001?), was a rebadged Canadiann
system, Alas, the name escapes me.
The other names mentioned in this mail,? are totally unknown to me.
Philips at that time had many interesting products, but they could never
lay arm with the big ones like Sony. Just think of the video recorder
they made. Excellen quality. I heard that the reason VHS won the battle,
was because porn distributors swang a big stick saying that it was
quicker to copy tapes on a VHS system. Don't know how true it is.
/Nico
On 2019-10-27 02:45, Adrian Stoness via cctalk wrote:
phillips when they ventured into the mini world start
out by rebadging the
honeywell 316 witch i think is what your talking about
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x533q90/r/924/RfzStB.jpg
On Sat, Oct 26, 2019 at 7:38 PM Paul Koning via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
>> On Oct 26, 2019, at 5:00 AM, nico de jong via cctech <
> cctech at classiccmp.org> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Back in the 70's and 80's Philips had a quite popular series of mini
> computers called P800, which also branched out to the PTS series and
> possibly other.
>
> I don't remember those; I do remember a Philips mini called the PR8000.
> That was apparently designed for industrial control, at least judging by
> the marketing brochure I have for it. It's the machine on which I learned
> assembly language programming. 24 bit machine, French mnemonics. Very
> interesting interrupt system. I've never seen any documents about it other
> than that one short 10-page marketing sheet.
>
> Then there was a 16 bit Philips minicomputer, P9200? Saw it at the
> Evoluon in Eindhoven where it controlled an interactive sculpture called
> the Senster. That has been preserved apparently; it would be neat to do a
> simulation of it.
>
> paul
>
>
7:31 a.m.
On Oct 27, 2019, at 9:25 AM, Dennis Boone via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
The Philips P92xx series was the rebadged x16 stuff.
Yes, that's what I understood as well. But others are not. The PR8000 is a quite
distinct design; I hope that at some point more documentation will materialize. I have
some notes in which I reconstructed part of the instruction set, but it contains only what
I can remember from the subset that appears in an old listing, and for example there is
very little about the somewhat unusual I/O system.
paul
7:35 a.m.
On Oct 27, 2019, at 9:15 AM, nico de jong via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
The Honeywell does not look like a P800, and to the best of my knowledge Philips (with
one L) did their own development in the mini sector.
However, I do know that for example one of their text processing systems, one in the
P5000 range (the P5001?), was a rebadged Canadiann system, Alas, the name escapes me.
The other names mentioned in this mail, are totally unknown to me.
The PR8000 documents I have can be found on Bitsavers.
paul
1648
days inactive
1650
days old
25 comments
8 participants
participants (8)
-
ard.p850ug1＠gmail.com -
cc＠informatik.uni-stuttgart.de -
drb＠msu.edu -
jos.dreesen＠greenmail.ch -
nico＠farumdata.dk -
nw.johnson＠ieee.org -
paulkoning＠comcast.net -
tdk.knight＠gmail.com