15 Nov
2007
15 Nov
'07
3:40 p.m.
As part of the process of getting a second C128 system set up and
running, I recently ordered another Commodore 1084 monitor from an
eBay seller. The one I have is nice and bright and lets me switch
quickly between the composite (40-column) and RGBI (80-column) outputs
of the 128, so I was happy to stumble across another one for a
reasonable price.
It arrived last night, and it's a great little monitor, in even better
shape than the one I already had. To my surprise, though, it's also
completely different. The case is different, the form factor and
positioning of the controls are different -- and, most relevantly,
even the connectors are different. My older one (made in 1989) has a
DB-9 input for RGBI input. The new arrival (made in 1988, if I recall
correctly) has an 8-pin DIN input for RGBI input.
Thankfully, I already had a DB-9 to DIN-8 cable in the Big Box of CBM
Scraps, so I didn't have to order any cable-making parts from Mouser,
but it does bring up a question: how many potentially problematic
variations on the same model number did Commodore make? I know that
they did a lot of this sort of thing, given the ever-changing
appearance of the C2N and 1541, but is there a quick and easy question
I can ask a seller to find out exactly what ports to expect on the
back of a 1084 (or similar monitor)? "DB-9" and "8-pin DIN" are
already way too difficult to explain to somebody just trying to clean
out their attack, but if there's a guide out there with a breakdown by
manufacturing date or serial number for some of this Commodore
equipment, that would be lovely...
15 Nov
15 Nov
5:47 p.m.
Mark Meiss wrote:
It arrived last night, and it's a great little
monitor, in even better
shape than the one I already had. To my surprise, though, it's also
completely different. The case is different, the form factor and
positioning of the controls are different -- and, most relevantly,
even the connectors are different. My older one (made in 1989) has a
DB-9 input for RGBI input. The new arrival (made in 1988, if I recall
correctly) has an 8-pin DIN input for RGBI input.
In the UK, I think the Amiga monitors were usually rebranded Philips displays
- the same as could be had for numerous other systems of the time. Acorn also
used the same Philips units - branded for their own purposes - and they
certainly existed in both 8-pin DIN and DE-9 configuration.
Furthermore, I've seen them both with and without speakers, with and without
separate audio inputs at the back, with and without direct RGB via SCART
sockets (not relevant outside Europe :-) and with and without the ability to
accept CVBS video.
It may well be that Philips worked with someone else on the underlying
displays for markets outside Europe - I didn't think Philips had much of a
presence in such as the US? Or it might be that different markets got
different displays - i.e. the UK idea of '1084' is totally different to a US
one with the same model number (now that would be confusing :-)
appearance of the C2N and 1541, but is there a quick
and easy question
I can ask a seller to find out exactly what ports to expect on the
back of a 1084 (or similar monitor)?
Assuming my above text is relevant, just get them to describe what ports it
has. I've never seen one where the ports aren't wired up if they're present -
the only case that would be hard to tell is whether speakers are physically
present when there's no separate audio in (i.e. audio input could still be via
the DIN plug or SCART)
cheers
Jules
8:53 p.m.
It may well be that Philips worked with someone else
on the underlying
displays for markets outside Europe - I didn't think Philips had much of a
presence in such as the US?
The Magnavox brand was how most of the Philips products got here then.
--
------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com
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17 Nov
17 Nov
3:20 a.m.
On Thursday 15 November 2007 12:47, Jules Richardson wrote:
Mark Meiss wrote:
I remember seeing some similar models (both 1084 _and_ 1802?) that appeared to
be almost the same inside, the differences being some of the stuff you
mention here. And indeed, even if the connectors weren't there the board
had a place for them, and the plastic rear cabinet half had a place where an
opening could be made by popping a bit of plastic out, and so forth. There
were also some electronic components missing, so one would need the proper
values to fill those in, but it was do-able if one had the service data for
the different models.
It arrived last night, and it's a great
little monitor, in even better
shape than the one I already had. To my surprise, though, it's also
completely different. The case is different, the form factor and
positioning of the controls are different -- and, most relevantly,
even the connectors are different. My older one (made in 1989) has a
DB-9 input for RGBI input. The new arrival (made in 1988, if I recall
correctly) has an 8-pin DIN input for RGBI input.
In the UK, I think the Amiga monitors were usually rebranded Philips
displays - the same as could be had for numerous other systems of the time.
Acorn also used the same Philips units - branded for their own purposes -
and they certainly existed in both 8-pin DIN and DE-9 configuration.
Furthermore, I've seen them both with and without speakers, with and
without separate audio inputs at the back, with and without direct RGB via
SCART sockets (not relevant outside Europe :-) and with and without the
ability to accept CVBS video. It may well be that Philips worked with someone else
on the underlying
displays for markets outside Europe - I didn't think Philips had much of a
presence in such as the US? Or it might be that different markets got
different displays - i.e. the UK idea of '1084' is totally different to a
US one with the same model number (now that would be confusing :-)
I remember getting to the Trenton ham/computer fest one time, and when we
arrived there were people carting monitors out their vehicles -- in boxes
that were marked Philips. And at that point in time I'd never heard of them
nor seen one.
--
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space, ?a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed. ?--Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James
M Dakin
15 Nov
15 Nov
5:52 p.m.
On Thursday 15 November 2007 10:40, Mark Meiss wrote:
As part of the process of getting a second C128 system
set up and
running, I recently ordered another Commodore 1084 monitor from an
eBay seller. The one I have is nice and bright and lets me switch
quickly between the composite (40-column) and RGBI (80-column) outputs
of the 128, so I was happy to stumble across another one for a
reasonable price.
It arrived last night, and it's a great little monitor, in even better
shape than the one I already had. To my surprise, though, it's also
completely different. The case is different, the form factor and
positioning of the controls are different -- and, most relevantly,
even the connectors are different. My older one (made in 1989) has a
DB-9 input for RGBI input. The new arrival (made in 1988, if I recall
correctly) has an 8-pin DIN input for RGBI input.
I haven't encountered too many 1084 monitors, but they did the same thing
with the 1802, if I'm remembering right...
*Very* different models, one was made by Magnavox (Philips?) and one by
GoldStar. And of course they tended to have different failure modes, and so
forth.
--
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space, ?a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed. ?--Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James
M Dakin
9:58 p.m.
Thankfully, I already had a DB-9 to DIN-8 cable in the
Big Box of CBM
Scraps, so I didn't have to order any cable-making parts from Mouser,
but it does bring up a question: how many potentially problematic
variations on the same model number did Commodore make? I know that
_Did_ Commoodore make it? 8 pin DIN for an RGB input suggests 'Philips'
to me.
-tony
11:02 p.m.
On Nov 15, 2007 4:58 PM, Tony Duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
Well, it's certainly got the chickenhead logo on it, at least. I'll
take a closer look at the label on the rear tonight and look for more
identifying characteristics.
Thankfully, I
already had a DB-9 to DIN-8 cable in the Big Box of CBM
Scraps, so I didn't have to order any cable-making parts from Mouser,
but it does bring up a question: how many potentially problematic
variations on the same model number did Commodore make? I know that
_Did_ Commoodore make it? 8 pin DIN for an RGB input suggests 'Philips'
to me.
11:33 p.m.
Well, it's certainly got the chickenhead logo on
it, at least. I'll
take a closer look at the label on the rear tonight and look for more
identifying characteristics.
Maybe looking at the main PCB will reveal something. The typical Philips
monitor this is likely to be based on -- the CM8883 and related models --
has a sparate PSU board standinger vertically at the RHS of the unit
(with the power swtich built onto the fixing bracket, thenre's a main PCB
flat at the bottom with a daughterboard for the RGB inputs. The colour
decoder IC is likely to have a Philips (SAAxxxx) number too.
Am I correct in thinking this will have separate Y and C inputs on it? If
so, it's not any of the common Philips models simply badged, but it might
be a very simple modification of one.
-tony
16 Nov
16 Nov
12:59 a.m.
Thankfully, I
already had a DB-9 to DIN-8 cable in the Big Box of CBM
Scraps, so I didn't have to order any cable-making parts from Mouser,
but it does bring up a question: how many potentially problematic
variations on the same model number did Commodore make? I know that
_Did_ Commoodore make it? 8 pin DIN for an RGB input suggests 'Philips'
to me.
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ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
chaosotter76＠gmail.com -
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rtellason＠verizon.net -
spectre＠floodgap.com