I have used VTserver with the included standalone "copy" program to copy an RT-11 disk image onto a cold machine. You can use simh or E11 to prepare the image and check it out. I have also loaded XXDP into a disk the same way. I think for XXDP, I used E11 to prepare a floppy image, then VTserver and "copy" to put it onto an 8" floppy. -- Jonathan Engdahl http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl "The things which are seen are temporary, but the things which are not seen are eternal." II Cor. 4:18 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" <erd_6502(a)yahoo.com> To: <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org> Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 4:26 PM Subject: Re: resurrecting a PDP-11/10 the

On Tue, 25 Feb 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: My good old 11/10 had 4 DL-11's, thankyou. One for teh console (in current-loop mode) which I believe was an LA75, and the other three had either a terminal or a connection to the "big" PDP at school (11/34a 7th Ed. UNIX) so I could play with things. I still have my console DL-11 here- its kind of sacred to me. DL-11W (with clock) or DL-11E (w/ modem control) would be good. Thats how I had it then.. the "disk server" ran on the 11/34a, over the serial line. About 100K. The client routine in the PDP-11 uses about 400 bytes. --fred

--- Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote: DZ-11, True, but serial terminals were not common when the PDP-11/10 was being sold new. In the DEC world, it was the day of ASR-33s and parallel line printers on the low end. Five years later, serial printers were much more common (LA-36 and newer). Again, my experiences in the DEC world are that Unibus RT-11-class machines ( less than 28KW of RAM, one or two disk devices, no MMU ) tended not to have multiple DL-11s. I'm not saying it never happened, it just wasn't common. It was much more common when the low end switched to the Qbus platforms. True. Good call. I have never used a DZ-11 under any version of RT-11 and have no idea how it would work out. I have used DZ-11s with RSTS and RSX. Works great. -ethan

What the heck is an ASR33 if not a serial terminal???? These machines were in use for a lot longer than 5 years (or at least the ones I've resched were...). It was not uncommon for them to have serial ports added later. COnsidering there's little, if any, difference between the 2 types of machine _in software_, there's no real reason why Q-bus machines would have multiple DL11-type ports and Unibus machines wouldn't. Other than possibly the fact that DEC made a 4-port DL11 for Q-bus (DLV11-J) but not for Unibus. 3rd parties made 4 and 8 port Unibus DL11s, though. -tony

On Wednesday, February 26, 2003, Ethan Dicks wrote: My uPDP-11/23+ has a DZV11-M 4-port mux (M7957). It is supported under RT-11 5.1 and CTS-300 8.1, both of which reside on the machine. -- Jeffrey Sharp

Jerome Fine replies: I am not sure exactly when the system I shall refer to was first installed, but I arrived on the scene around 1979 after it had been running for a few years. I understand that the initial installation used a PDP-11/10 with a DZ11 to communicate with the field plus the usual single DL11 for the console which was, if I remember correctly, a VT52. The system ran RT-11 with 2 RK05 disk drives. I think that the first version used was V2.0 something. Later the production system was upgraded to a PDP-11/34A and Multi-User Basic was added which ran in the Background while the original program was run in the Foreground. The DZ11 used all 16 channels to communicate with many other terminals spread around the factory. The DZ11 was a great improvement over the DL11 since it contained a SILO for incoming characters. Whereas the DL11 would lose a character if the ISR (Interrupt Service Routine) did not manage to handle the previous character quickly enough, the DZ11 was able to store up to 32 (or perhaps 64) characters in the SILO. In addition, after each character was processed, the ISR was able to determine if any characters remained in the SILO, so the overhead of exiting and re-entering the ISR was avoided. Until about 1982, the 11/23 was the high end in the Qbus systems. Is that what you meant? I think that the DZ11 was first supported under RT-11 in V4.00, but I can't be sure. That would have been at least by 1980. Certainly by 1983 when V5.00 of RT-11 was released, I am almost certain. The DZ11 could support up to 16 channels on the Unibus. On the Qbus, the DZV11 could support ONLY 4 channels. As far as I remember, the DZ11 and the DZV11 looked the same to RT-11. The DHV11 was not supported by RT-11 until V5.06 in August 1992. TSX-PLUS supported the DHV11 many years before that. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year.

Ethan Dicks wrote: the later console/SLU is common and adds a handy clock, but an awful lot of the machines I've met had two, or in one recent case I saw a 11/45(very early) with about six... even my pdp-8/L has addidional serial ports. ISTR vtserver wants something 30kw? the problem here is finding RT11 (see mentec,licence,endless moral posts), esp. one that is old and small, even then, old RT11 has some problems so you don't want to if you don't have a good reason (I'd love to have something that would run on my 8KW 11/20) so V5 wants 16KW just to say hi, V4 is only slightly smaller. Pavl_

Ethan Dicks wrote: The "normal" boot program used by VTserver is (I think) the BSD 2.9 boot with standalone drivers for VTserver itself and whatever other devices you have configured in. Unfortunately this means that it assumes that you have an MMU and a fair amount of memory (192K ?) which makes it not very useful for use on small 11's Michael Davidson