26 Dec
2009
26 Dec
'09
5:33 p.m.
off the top of my head, these computers sported the '186:
Tandy TRS-80 model 2000
the Mindset
Burroughs ICON
Televideo Personal Mini
Altos 586 (not sure if *that* one did, but one Altos model did regardless)
Research Machines Nimbus (UK)
odd but still interesting categories:
original Ampro Little Board PC (single board computer)
Radio Electronics RE Robot (could be bought ready built from Vesta Technologies - they
kindly provided ROM images) - 80188
AST and Orchid 4-port cards (not really *computers*, yet they are)
Vermont Microsystems PGC clone graphics card (80188)
let me see if I remember this one correctly - Advanced Computer Products of Anaheim, CA
produced a box w/a fully compatible 80186 mobo
probably dozens and dozens if not hundreds of industrial embedded systems
*********************************************************
likely there are other worthy additions to this list. But the very last entry is what
I'd like to touch on. Where are all these blooming things? I even remember a company
in Long Island (can't remember the name, off of Vets highway) that made one. The
ability to enumerate every one is a task likely to be carried out as naming all the
bizarre and perverse specialty software that (truly) was available for the Tandy 2000 at
one time (bizarro scientific apps mostly, but some off the wall accounting packages and
whatnot also). But give it a go gurus. Lessee what you can come up with -
oh, hope you all had a Merry Christmas, Happy Hannukah, joyous Kwanzaa. But that's it.
The pagans and atheists can go scratch LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL
12:28 p.m.
On 27 Dec 2009, at 02:33, Chris M wrote:
Do you know anything about the Philips machines?
As I mentioned in another message, Jules gave me some kind of Philips
multi-user box. A number of boards each with 2 serial ports (IIRC), some
with Z80As on them , others with 80188s. A large PSU (which I must get
round to repairing) with lead-acid battery backup And what seems to be a
SCSI interface to the disk system and a space for a QIC tape drive.
Any ideas?
-tony
likely there are other worthy additions to this
list.
Philips :Yes 
1:45 p.m.
2009/12/27 Tony Duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk>:
No, not much at all. I own a couple of Philips MSX machines, but
they're all manufactured by Sanyo. The P2000 line of micros was fairly
common in Holland in the early 80's, and they made some rather nice PC
clones for a while (NMS9100 series).
I only ever remember reading an article about the :YES, but somehow,
the fact that it had a 80186 CPU stuck in my mind for all these years.
(I'll be beating everyone silly in Trivial Pursuit again, this new
year's eve!)
On 27 Dec
2009, at 02:33, Chris M wrote:
Do you know anything about the Philips machines? likely there are other worthy additions to this
list.
Philips :Yes As I mentioned in another message, Jules gave me some
kind of Philips
multi-user box. A number of boards each with 2 serial ports (IIRC), some
with Z80As on them , others with 80188s. A large PSU (which I must get
round to repairing) with lead-acid battery backup And what seems to be a
SCSI interface to the disk system and a space for a QIC tape drive.
Any ideas?
Well, apart from the aforementioned home computers, Philips wwere
active in many specialist markets, from medical equipment to
industrial and test equipment. I believe they made midrange to
"biggish" iron office machinery, as well. But I do assume it was all
rather low volume stuff.
.tsooJ
2:03 p.m.
Theres also an ancient Ungermann-Bass ISA Ethernet card that uses a 80186 (and
a 82586)
Doesnt the DECNA use a 80186 as well?
Peter Wallace
28 Dec
28 Dec
10:52 a.m.
Well, apart from the aforementioned home computers,
Philips wwere
active in many specialist markets, from medical equipment to
industrial and test equipment. I believe they made midrange to
There is a proverb in England about grandmothers and sucking eggs :-)
More seriously, my e-mail address and 'organisation' refer to a Philips
P850, which is a 16 bit minicomputer (OK, thar particular model ahs an 8
bit ALU, but it appears to be 16 bits to the programmer) dating from
1970. I have several other machines in the range (P851, which uses
Philips custom bitslice chips (SPALU == Scratch Pad and Arithmetic Logic
Unit) , P854, which uses AMD2900 series chips and has an MMU, and what
appears to be a P850-series single-chip processor, maybe a P853 CPU
board).
These machines are not common (to put it mildly!), but they do exist.
"biggish" iron office machinery, as well.
But I do assume it was all
rather low volume stuff.
I've got (somewhere) a Philips word processor system -- a large case
containing a CRT display and a pair of 5.25" drives, with a CPU board (a
pair of Z80s IIRC) at the back and a separate keyboard.
-tony
8:53 p.m.
2009/12/28 Tony Duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk>:
More seriously, my e-mail address and
'organisation' refer to a Philips
P850, which is a 16 bit minicomputer (OK, thar particular model ahs an 8
bit ALU, but it appears to be 16 bits to the programmer) dating from
1970. I have several other machines in the range (P851, which uses
Philips custom bitslice chips (SPALU == Scratch Pad and Arithmetic Logic
Unit) , P854, which uses AMD2900 series chips and has an MMU, and what
appears to be a P850-series single-chip processor, maybe a P853 CPU
board).
These machines are not common (to put it mildly!), but they do exist.
I shot an email to my uncle who's worked at Philips for decades, maybe
he knows things about the rarer Philips computer stuff. Or maybe he
has connections to people who know things that deserve to be
preserved.
I've got (somewhere) a Philips word processor
system -- a large case
containing a CRT display and a pair of 5.25" drives, with a CPU board (a
pair of Z80s IIRC) at the back and a separate keyboard.
Early model Philips VideoWriter? The ones with a 3.5" drive were
fairly common in the mid-'80's.
.tsooJ
29 Dec
29 Dec
12:22 p.m.
2009/12/28 Tony Duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk>:
FWIW, I have a fair number of manuals (including techncial
manauls/schematics) for the P800 stuff. Alas my P854 manual is a
'preliminary' with no microcode sources :-(. Oh well...
More seriously, my e-mail address and
'organisation' refer to a Philips
P850, which is a 16 bit minicomputer (OK, thar particular model ahs an 8
bit ALU, but it appears to be 16 bits to the programmer) dating from
1970. I have several other machines in the range (P851, which uses
Philips custom bitslice chips (SPALU == Scratch Pad and Arithmetic Logic
Unit) , P854, which uses AMD2900 series chips and has an MMU, and what
appears to be a P850-series single-chip processor, maybe a P853 CPU
board).
These machines are not common (to put it mildly!), but they do exist.
I shot an email to my uncle who's worked at Philips for decades, maybe
he knows things about the rarer Philips computer stuff. Or maybe he
has connections to people who know things that deserve to be
preserved. I've got (somewhere) a Philips word processor
system -- a large case
containing a CRT display and a pair of 5.25" drives, with a CPU board (a
pair of Z80s IIRC) at the back and a separate keyboard.
Early model Philips VideoWriter? The ones with a 3.5" drive were
fairly common in the mid-'80's. 
1:24 p.m.
While we're on the subject of 80186s I discovered some odd (well
undocumented) behavior whilst experementing on my RM Nimbus (as I'm
writing a MESS driver).
If I load a value into AX, and then do an out instruction with AL, the
whole of AX seems to still appear on the data bus, something like:
MOV AX,055AAh
OUT 022,AL
It looks like to me that the whole of AX is actually getting put out,
and that the /BHE ine is set to signify only the bottom 8 bits are
valid. The Nimbus video controller seems to ignore /BHE and treat the
data bus as always 16 bits wide.
Is this known undocumented behavior ? I seem to remember that the Z80
has a similar undocumented behavior with the addressing of it's in and
out instructions also.
Cheers.
Phill.
--
Phill Harvey-Smith, Programmer, Hardware hacker, and general eccentric !
"You can twist perceptions, but reality won't budge" -- Rush.
1:37 p.m.
If I recall, the rule is that the S lines or equivalent will tell you
what to take on the output. I don't know if it is a violation to drive
the other 8 bits or not, but your hardware should only be told that
there is an 8 bit transaction going on.
Jim
Phill Harvey-Smith wrote:
While we're on the subject of 80186s I discovered
some odd (well
undocumented) behavior whilst experementing on my RM Nimbus (as I'm
writing a MESS driver).
If I load a value into AX, and then do an out instruction with AL, the
whole of AX seems to still appear on the data bus, something like:
MOV AX,055AAh
OUT 022,AL
It looks like to me that the whole of AX is actually getting put out,
and that the /BHE ine is set to signify only the bottom 8 bits are
valid. The Nimbus video controller seems to ignore /BHE and treat the
data bus as always 16 bits wide.
Is this known undocumented behavior ? I seem to remember that the Z80
has a similar undocumented behavior with the addressing of it's in and
out instructions also.
Cheers.
Phill.
30 Dec
30 Dec
9:28 a.m.
On 29 Dec 2009 at 13:37, jim s wrote:
If I recall, the rule is that the S lines or
equivalent will tell you
what to take on the output. I don't know if it is a violation to
drive the other 8 bits or not, but your hardware should only be told
that there is an 8 bit transaction going on.
The "if" and "where" of byte-vs-word operations are determined on the
186 by BHE/ and A0. Very straightforward. If they're both low, a
word is being requested. If either (but not both) is high, the upper
or lower byte of a word is being signalled (both high is a "reserved"
condition).
One of the attractions of the 186 over the 86 is the insanely simple
interfacing. No bus controller needed; easy to decipher signals--and
6 programmable memory chip selects and 4/5 peripheral chip selects.
My gripe was the 2-channel DMA controller. If one channel was used
for DRAM autoinitialize refresh, then that left you with only a
single DMA channel. In that respect, the NEC V50 was much superior.
--Chuck
9:49 a.m.
If I load a value into AX, and then do an out
instruction with AL, the
whole of AX seems to still appear on the data bus, something like:
MOV AX,055AAh
OUT 022,AL
It looks like to me that the whole of AX is actually getting put out,
No big deal.
I assume that was the 80186.
How was the timing of the 80188? (did it also try to do anything with
AH?)
11:21 a.m.
On 30 Dec 2009 at 9:49, Fred Cisin wrote:
No big deal.
I assume that was the 80186.
How was the timing of the 80188? (did it also try to do anything with
AH?)
Somewhat different BIU architecture on the 80188. BHE/-S7 is always
high on the 188, and data's never multiplexed onto A15-A8. The
execution timing's the same on both chips, according to the
datasheet. So if anything is being done with AH, you don't have any
way of seeing it.
What *is* documented is doing word I/O on the 188--it's converted by
the BIU to two 8-bit transfers from port and port+1.
The behavior that the OP noted with the 186 seems to be documented in
graphic form in the BIU section of the 186 Microprocessor User's
Manual at:
http://www.intel.com/design/intarch/manuals/27083003.pdf
Not only does BHE/ signal which half of the 16-bit bus to use during
outpuf, but on input, the interface circuitry is allowe to drive all
16 data bus bits, even if BHE/ and A0 signal a byte transfer. So the
behavior can be reciprocal.
--Chuck
11:31 a.m.
Fred Cisin wrote:
Yep 80186, dunno about the 188, I alas don't have one to test it on...
I wasn't actually supprised by the behavior...just wondered if anyone
had noticed it before :)
Cheers.
Phill.
--
Phill Harvey-Smith, Programmer, Hardware hacker, and general eccentric !
"You can twist perceptions, but reality won't budge" -- Rush.
If I load a
value into AX, and then do an out instruction with AL, the
whole of AX seems to still appear on the data bus, something like:
MOV AX,055AAh
OUT 022,AL
It looks like to me that the whole of AX is actually getting put out,
No big deal.
I assume that was the 80186.
How was the timing of the 80188? (did it also try to do anything with
AH?)
29 Dec
29 Dec
2:31 p.m.
On 29 Dec 2009 at 21:24, Phill Harvey-Smith wrote:
If I load a value into AX, and then do an out
instruction with AL, the
whole of AX seems to still appear on the data bus, something like:
I don't know if it's documented, but it doesn't surprise me and
strikes me as an eninently sensible way to implement a byte output
instruction. Does the 8086 do this?
Is this known undocumented behavior ? I seem to
remember that the Z80
has a similar undocumented behavior with the addressing of it's in and
out instructions also.
The Z80 behavior of the IN x,(C) and OUT (C),x and their variants
(e.g. OTIR) are documented and put the contents of the register pair
(BC) on the address bus. The immediate-port I/O instructions (IN
A,nn and OUT nn,A put the contents of A on the high-order 8 bits of
the address bus--not quite as useful--but worth knowing if you're
going to use the 16-bit I/O address space "feature")
-Chuck
.
2:46 p.m.
On Tue, 29 Dec 2009, Phill Harvey-Smith wrote:
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 21:24:25 +0000
From: Phill Harvey-Smith <afra at aurigae.demon.co.uk>
Reply-To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
;
Subject: Re: the venerable 80186 (and 80188)
While we're on the subject of 80186s I discovered some odd (well
undocumented) behavior whilst experementing on my RM Nimbus (as I'm writing a
MESS driver).
If I load a value into AX, and then do an out instruction with AL, the whole
of AX seems to still appear on the data bus, something like:
MOV AX,055AAh
OUT 022,AL
It looks like to me that the whole of AX is actually getting put out, and
that the /BHE ine is set to signify only the bottom 8 bits are valid. The
Nimbus video controller seems to ignore /BHE and treat the data bus as always
16 bits wide.
Is this known undocumented behavior ? I seem to remember that the Z80 has a
similar undocumented behavior with the addressing of it's in and out
instructions also.
Seems like the simplest thing to do (what _should_ the upper data bits be
on a byte write?) Anything else (all zeros, ones, duplicated low half,
floated, etc) probably requires more hardware.
There must be 100s of such examples of the hardware showing through when you
look at things that are "dont-care" in the processor specification like the
high order data bus on a byte write.
Cheers.
Phill.
--
Phill Harvey-Smith, Programmer, Hardware hacker, and general eccentric !
"You can twist perceptions, but reality won't budge" -- Rush.
Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics
30 Dec
30 Dec
12:06 a.m.
> > More seriously, my e-mail address and
'organisation' refer to a Philips
> > P850, which is a 16 bit minicomputer (OK, thar particular model ahs an
> > 8
> > bit ALU, but it appears to be 16 bits to the programmer) dating from
> > 1970. I have several other machines in the range (P851, which uses
> > Philips custom bitslice chips (SPALU == Scratch Pad and Arithmetic
> > Logic
> > Unit) , P854, which uses AMD2900 series chips and has an MMU, and what
> > appears to be a P850-series single-chip processor, maybe a P853 CPU
> > board).
> >
> > These machines are not common (to put it mildly!), but they do exist.
>
There was also the P85x-based P6800 series (later P8000), where most of the
peripherals
originated from Philips J?rf?lla in Sweden.
We have a complete system in the danish datamuseum, and also some disks with
release packages. I know for sure there is everything between TOSS release 7
and 11
TOSS was the run-time system, where every system had its own monitor (to
save space)
Those monitors were generated under DOS, which AFAIK was a normal P85x DOS.
I worked at Philips Copenhagen from 1979 to 1984 on P6800 systems. These
were used
mainly for local authorities for bookkeeping, budget etc., but were also in
use in the
danish railway system and the P&T.
I've got (somewhere) a Philips word processor
system -- a large case
containing a CRT display and a pair of 5.25" drives, with a CPU board
(a
pair of Z80s IIRC) at the back and a separate keyboard.
Early model Philips VideoWriter? The ones with a 3.5" drive were
fairly common in the mid-'80's. 
28 Dec
28 Dec
5:53 a.m.
Tony Duell wrote:
Do you know anything about the Philips machines?
As I mentioned in another message, Jules gave me some kind of Philips
multi-user box. A number of boards each with 2 serial ports (IIRC), some
with Z80As on them , others with 80188s. A large PSU (which I must get
round to repairing) with lead-acid battery backup And what seems to be a
SCSI interface to the disk system and a space for a QIC tape drive.
Yep. It's a P3800, running TurboDOS (or it would, if it worked ;)
I saw some claim on the web a few years back that it'd support up to 62
terminals (although whether that machine I gave you has enough guts to do that
with appropriate cables / breakout boxes, I'm not sure)
Seeing if you can get some sense out of the hard disk is perhaps the best
route as without that the machine's never going to do anything :-( I can't
remember if the bus is SCSI or SASI now, but there's a bridge board to the
ST506/412 drive - theoretically it could be driven from another system and the
'raw' contents read off (but potentially with some intelligent guessing of
drive parameters if the bridge doesn't pre-initialise)
cheers
Jules
28 Dec
28 Dec
1:13 a.m.
2009/12/27 Chris M <chrism3667 at yahoo.com>:
--- On Sun, 12/27/09, Joost van de Griek <gyorpb at
gmail.com> wrote:
Not really, since I only ever remember reading one article about the
thing, and then later that it pretty much flopped.
But maybe this'll help: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philips_:YES>.
It's a stub, but there's two links to collectors, there.
.tsooJ
Philips :Yes
could you please be more specific 
7:33 a.m.
Hi
I have several STD bus boards with the 80C186 on them.
These boards even have the rarer 80C187s.
There was at least one modem ( I think US Robotics )
that used a 188/186. This I know because I'd written
a Forth for a box, that I had that was part of a transponder,
and another fellow blew that Forth onto an EPROM and
it worked on the modem he had.
I'd also put the Forth onto a development board from
AMD that had a 80188 on it. I used the chips serial
port on all of these.
Dwight
_________________________________________________________________
Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222985/direct/01/
8:53 a.m.
--- On Mon, 12/28/09, dwight elvey <dkelvey at hotmail.com> wrote:
Hi
I have several STD bus boards with the 80C186 on them.
could you please provide more details
These boards even have the rarer 80C187s.
Did Intel actually make a '187? I heard some German company made them. That's all
I ever heard.
There was at least one modem ( I think US Robotics )
that used a 188/186. This I know because I'd written
a Forth for a box,
Now that I don't believe. Dwight wrote a FORTH. COME ON!
that I had that was part of a
transponder,
and another fellow blew that Forth onto an EPROM and
it worked on the modem he had.
I'd also put the Forth onto a development board from
AMD that had a 80188 on it.
I'll be your best friend if you give some details on that too :)
I used the chips serial
port on all of these.
Dwight
_________________________________________________________________
Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail
Free.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222985/direct/01/
27 Dec
27 Dec
7:48 a.m.
On Sat, 26 Dec 2009, Chris M wrote:
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 2009 17:33:05 -0800 (PST)
From: Chris M <chrism3667 at yahoo.com>
Reply-To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
To: talk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: the venerable 80186 (and 80188)
off the top of my head, these computers sported the '186:
Tandy TRS-80 model 2000
the Mindset
Burroughs ICON
Televideo Personal Mini
Altos 586 (not sure if *that* one did, but one Altos model did regardless)
Research Machines Nimbus (UK)
odd but still interesting categories:
original Ampro Little Board PC (single board computer)
Radio Electronics RE Robot (could be bought ready built from Vesta Technologies - they
kindly provided ROM images) - 80188
AST and Orchid 4-port cards (not really *computers*, yet they are)
Vermont Microsystems PGC clone graphics card (80188)
let me see if I remember this one correctly - Advanced Computer Products of Anaheim, CA
produced a box w/a fully compatible 80186 mobo
probably dozens and dozens if not hundreds of industrial embedded systems
*********************************************************
likely there are other worthy additions to this list. But the very last entry is what
I'd like to touch on. Where are all these blooming things? I even remember a company
in Long Island (can't remember the name, off of Vets highway) that made one. The
ability to enumerate every one is a task likely to be carried out as naming all the
bizarre and perverse specialty software that (truly) was available for the Tandy 2000 at
one time (bizarro scientific apps mostly, but some off the wall accounting packages and
whatnot also). But give it a go gurus. Lessee what you can come up with -
oh, hope you all had a Merry Christmas, Happy Hannukah, joyous Kwanzaa. But that's
it. The pagans and atheists can go scratch LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL
Heres a good collection:
http://books.google.com/books?id=fi4EAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA60&lpg=PA60&…
I remember Mad computers, saw them at the 1983 or 4 COMDEX
Peter Wallace
9:47 a.m.
On 27 Dec 2009 at 7:48, Peter C. Wallace wrote:
I remember Mad computers, saw them at the 1983 or 4
COMDEX
I still use a MAD case for one of my XT-compatible systems. Sometime
around 1986, Haltek had a pile of their cases and (incompatible)
motherboards. Took a little drilling for standoffs and installation
of a different power supply connector, but it's a very sturdy and
compact case.
Add to your list, the Durango Poppy--a combo 186/286 system, witth
the 286 supplied as an optional upgrade (the socket was on all
systems). I think the release date was about 1983-84, with the 286
upgrade and Xenix coming later.
And don't forget the systems that used the NEC V40 and V50; similar
(integrated peripherals, not totally PC compatible), but not pin-
compatible with the 188/186.
The 186/188 found its way into a *lot* of peripherals, including USR
modems and a number of high-end tape systems.
Somewhere, I remember that the 186 could be used in a very PC-
compatible mode if you were willing to forego the integrated
peripherals.
Were there any PC accelerator cards made with the 186? I believe
there may have been.
--Chuck
9:50 a.m.
Add to your list, the Durango Poppy--a combo 186/286
system, witth
the 286 supplied as an optional upgrade (the socket was on all
systems). I think the release date was about 1983-84, with the 286
upgrade and Xenix coming later.
Also add the HP 95LX palmtop, and possibly others in the LX line (I don't
remember if they all do). They used a '186.
--
------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com
-- If at first you don't succeed, don't go skydiving. -------------------------
12:33 p.m.
Also add the HP 95LX palmtop, and possibly others in
the LX line (I don't
remember if they all do). They used a '186.
IIRC the 95LX uses an 80C188. The Omnigo 100 (touch-screen palmtop) uses
a PC-on-a-chip made by a company called Vadem. I have the data sheet on
that chip somewhere, I will haev to check what the CPU is.
-tony
6:07 p.m.
Also add the
HP 95LX palmtop, and possibly others in the LX line (I don't
remember if they all do). They used a '186.
IIRC the 95LX uses an 80C188.
1 p.m.
Were there any PC accelerator cards made with the
186?? I believe
there may have been.
yep. Orchid PC Turbo 186. I think I have 3. Not sure about working s/w. A bud has been
pining for valid s/w for the thing. I may have to write my own LOL.
the Infoworld article on it:
http://books.google.com/books?id=2i4EAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA49&lpg=PA49&…
and the patent it was awarded:
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/4799150.html
28 Dec
28 Dec
9:48 a.m.
Add to the list, late (1990's) Cipher 1/2" tape streamers. Kind of
odd, really--a controller board with both a Z8002 handling the drive
smarts and an 80c188 handling the SCSI interface.
It would not surprise me if the '186 could also be found in some
laser printers. I've found CPUs from the 68K family to the NS32016
in them.
The great thing about the 186 was the 20-bit DMA controller, but only
two channels of it. The 8089 IOP featured 20 bit DMA, but was a very
different fish--fairly expensive and more involved to interface. One
wonders why Intel, over the life of the ISA bus, never came out with
a 24-bit version of the 8237.
--Chuck
4 p.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: pcw at mesanet.com
Sent: Sun, 27 Dec 2009 07:48:20 -0800 (PST)
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: the venerable 80186 (and 80188)
On Sat, 26 Dec 2009, Chris M wrote:
The 3Com 3Server and 3Server3 used the '186. Some guy at 3Com
(back in the day) told me they used it because of the 186's
(then) wicked-fast DMA speed.
I found some 80186's marked SAMPLE in my stash today . . .
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 2009 17:33:05 -0800 (PST)
From: Chris M <chrism3667 at yahoo.com>
Reply-To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
To: talk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: the venerable 80186 (and 80188)
off the top of my head, these computers sported the '186:
Tandy TRS-80 model 2000
the Mindset
Burroughs ICON
Televideo Personal Mini
Altos 586 (not sure if *that* one did, but one Altos model did
regardless)
Research Machines Nimbus (UK)
odd but still interesting categories:
original Ampro Little Board PC (single board computer)
Radio Electronics RE Robot (could be bought ready built from Vesta
Technologies - they kindly provided ROM images) - 80188
AST and Orchid 4-port cards (not really *computers*, yet they are)
Vermont Microsystems PGC clone graphics card (80188)
let me see if I remember this one correctly - Advanced Computer Products
of Anaheim, CA produced a box w/a fully compatible 80186 mobo
probably dozens and dozens if not hundreds of industrial embedded
systems
*********************************************************
likely there are other worthy additions to this list. But the very last
entry is what I'd like to touch on. Where are all these blooming things?
I even remember a company in Long Island (can't remember the name, off
of Vets highway) that made one. The ability to enumerate every one is a
task likely to be carried out as naming all the bizarre and perverse
specialty software that (truly) was available for the Tandy 2000 at one
time (bizarro scientific apps mostly, but some off the wall accounting
packages and whatnot also). But give it a go gurus. Lessee what you can
come up with -
oh, hope you all had a Merry Christmas, Happy Hannukah, joyous Kwanzaa.
But that's it. The pagans and atheists can go scratch LOL LOL LOL LOL
LOL
Heres a good collection:
http://books.google.com/books?id=fi4EAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA60&lpg=PA60&…
I remember Mad computers, saw them at the 1983 or 4 COMDEX
Peter Wallace
8:26 a.m.
New subject: the venerable 80186 (and 80188) (development system with 188)
Chris M wrote:
off the top of my head, these computers sported the
'186:
<snip>
probably dozens and dozens if not hundreds of industrial embedded systems
We had a pair of cards at Peer Protocols, the 5000 and 7000 development
systems. They were used to run SCSI test diagnostics and had ISA
interfaces on the cards. They had 188's which were controllable from
the host machine via a couple of gates. They were held reset at power
on. There was 512k of memory that the 188 had, and a 4 k shared window
to the host's isa I/O range which was strappable. We would load most of
the 512k when starting the development environment, and then hit reset
and release the 188. Also had 2 serial lines for initial development
environment work.
I don't recall the exact debugger, but it is still around. It had a 256
byte or so footprint for grabbing the debug, which we included in the
support environment. Original work was thru a serial port to a second
PC. Later after the code stabilized, I added a virtual com port that
could run on the same PC that talked to a virtual port on the 188's
shared memory (4 bytes with flag / data each way).
Main challenge up till windows 95 and 98 came out was memory on the DOS
side to run the debugger + the host side stack. The host side could be
run as either a library linked into applications that run under dos, or
could be loaded as a TSR with a TSR call. The DOS TSR was about 300K so
a full system of memory on the AT compatible was required to run the
thing. Later memory options for expansion were able to be configured to
get the AT DOS memory up to the 768K range and still not step on the 4k
memory window, and that made things lot easier.
Windows 95 and 98 allowed the debugger to run in an 8086 box and still
see the shared memory window, so we could debug, and run the full system
all on one box.
Also had a couple of Toshiba 3100's with ISA boxes which were used for
demos / portable development environments. Those were really nice early
portable plasma screen "laptops" in the day.
Our main code was compiled with Microsoft C6 which was preferred by more
developers at the time than Borland, though we maintained Borland
compatability.
We would have used the 186, but the 188 had a simpler bus and our
hardware guys preferred it.
12:26 p.m.
probably dozens and dozens if not hundreds of
industrial embedded systems
Years ago I repaired a friend's laser printer (long before I could afford
such a machine..), and I am sure I rememebr an 80186 or 80188 on the
formatter board.
And I think I remember an 80188 in my X-terminal. No, not to run the X
serer (that runsd on a TMS3410 video chip IIRC), but for I/O.
*********************************************************
likely there are other worthy additions to this list. But the very
Jules Richardson gave me some kind of Philips multi-user system, which
has a couple of 808188s in it (and a fair pile of Z80s...).
What was the processor in the MS-DOS second processor for the BBC micro?
Something says '80186' to me.
-tony
2:01 p.m.
Tony Duell wrote:
What was the processor in the MS-DOS second processor
for the BBC micro?
Something says '80186' to me.
The Master 512, yep the co-pro board is an 80186, with 512K of memory
(expandable to 1M). It ran a special version of DR DosPlus.
Cheers.
Phill.
--
Phill Harvey-Smith, Programmer, Hardware hacker, and general eccentric !
"You can twist perceptions, but reality won't budge" -- Rush.
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