4 Feb
1999
4 Feb
'99
3:46 p.m.
Hi,
I'm thinking of putting together an FAQ-like document intended to combat
the stupid ideas people have about computers. So, does anyone have any ideas
for common misconceptions about computers that I should address? So far, I
have the places various things originated (i.e. IBM did _not_ invent the
PC, Apple did _not_ invent the GUI, etc.)
--Max Eskin (max82(a)surfree.com)
12:16 p.m.
Max Eskin <max82(a)surfree.com> wrote:
I thought they invented the General Protection Fault, or whatever
it was called. And the blue screen of death. and probably many
other ways of saying "we dont know how to program, and we know it,
so instead of debugging our programs we spend time finding ways
to report cryptic error messages that normal users cant be expected to
understand".
BTW, the blue screen of death is a masterstroke of obfuscation.
-Lawrence LeMay
So far, I have the places various things
originated (i.e. IBM did _not_
invent the PC, Apple did _not_ invent the GUI, etc.)
You missed one of the most important ones:
Microsoft did _not_ invent ANYTHING.
5 Feb
5 Feb
12:46 p.m.
On Thu, 4 Feb 1999, Max Eskin wrote:
Nice; take a perfectly good joke and analyze it. AFAIK, Intel was the
first to have segment-level protection for which there may be several
types of "general" faults. Earlier processors had other protection
schemes, such as page-level protection, which would throw *specific* page
faults (which Intel also does).
I'm sure somebody will prove me wrong, but I say my joke stands up to the
closest scrutiny until they do!
-- Doug
No, Intel
invented the GPF, but Microsoft embraced and extended it.
Actually, I'm pretty sure it was DEC (or whoever made the first
protected-mode processor). 
2:37 p.m.
Doug wrote:
AFAIK, Intel was the
first to have segment-level protection for which there may be several
types of "general" faults.
No, segments (and segment-related faults) were around for many years before
Intel was even founded. The GE 645 (on which Multics was developed) comes
to mind.
10:04 p.m.
Lawrence LeMay wrote:
Magnificent, isn't it? It _looks_ like valuable debugging
information to a non-programmer. In its way it's as beautiful as
Jerry Falwell promising that anybody who sends him money will go to
Heaven.
--
Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/>
WARNING: The Attorney General has determined that Alcohol, Tobacco,
and Firearms can be hazardous to your health -- and get away with it.
Max Eskin <max82(a)surfree.com> wrote:
I thought they invented the General Protection Fault, or whatever
it was called. And the blue screen of death. and probably many
other ways of saying "we dont know how to program, and we know it,
so instead of debugging our programs we spend time finding ways
to report cryptic error messages that normal users cant be expected to
understand".
BTW, the blue screen of death is a masterstroke of obfuscation. So far, I have the places various things
originated (i.e. IBM did _not_
invent the PC, Apple did _not_ invent the GUI, etc.)
You missed one of the most important ones:
Microsoft did _not_ invent ANYTHING.
8 Feb
8 Feb
7:47 a.m.
> BTW, the blue screen of death is a masterstroke
of obfuscation.
Magnificent, isn't it? It _looks_ like valuable
debugging
information to a non-programmer. In its way it's as beautiful as
Jerry Falwell promising that anybody who sends him money will go to
Heaven.
Who's that guy ? And did he get a copyright/theft of corporate
secrets law suit form the catholic church ?
:))
H.
--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK
3:09 a.m.
On 8 Feb 99 at 18:48, Hans Franke wrote:
Nah, that was Oral Roberts who founded the slumiversity of the same name.
I think Falwell was just another of the many fundamentalists caught trying to
diddle young/grown girls/boys, which of course the catholic church has lots of
experience in.
ciao :^}} larry
lwalker(a)interlog.com
> BTW, the
blue screen of death is a masterstroke of obfuscation.
Magnificent, isn't it? It _looks_ like
valuable debugging
information to a non-programmer. In its way it's as beautiful as
Jerry Falwell promising that anybody who sends him money will go to
Heaven.
Who's that guy ? And did he get a copyright/theft of corporate
secrets law suit form the catholic church ?
:))
H.
7 Feb
7 Feb
5:03 p.m.
At 05:16 PM 05-02-99 -0600, Lawrence LeMay wrote:
I thought they invented the General Protection Fault,
or whatever
it was called. And the blue screen of death. and probably many
other ways of saying "we dont know how to program, and we know it,
so instead of debugging our programs we spend time finding ways
to report cryptic error messages that normal users cant be expected to
understand".
BTW, the blue screen of death is a masterstroke of obfuscation.
Surly the AmigaDOS Guru meditation was both earlier and more obscure?
Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies(a)latrobe.edu.au
Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 1999
La Trobe University | "If God had wanted soccer played in the
Melbourne Australia 3083 | air, the sky would be painted green"
6:19 p.m.
Date sent: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 15:03:28 +1100
Send reply to: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu
From: Huw Davies <H.Davies(a)latrobe.edu.au>
To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers"
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: ~OT: Computer misconceptions
At 05:16 PM 05-02-99 -0600, Lawrence LeMay wrote:
And it ranks up with the error messages that tell you absolutely nothing, or the
annoying dialog box that tells you that you must reboot your computer for
changes to take effect after every single mouse click.......I just had to reboot
seven times trying to get "Plug 'n' Play (!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?) to install a
@#%^!%#$@ modem.
I thought they invented the General Protection
Fault, or whatever
it was called. And the blue screen of death. and probably many
other ways of saying "we dont know how to program, and we know it,
so instead of debugging our programs we spend time finding ways
to report cryptic error messages that normal users cant be expected to
understand".
BTW, the blue screen of death is a masterstroke of obfuscation.
Surly the AmigaDOS Guru meditation was both earlier
and more obscure?
Ahhhh, but I had to do something really stupid to get a GM to come up. Unlike
my wintel box at work, where it'll just crash because I had the audacity to move
the mouse and then *****HORROR!!!!****** click the button..........or, my mouse
will just stop working for no apparent reason. However, this is the OS that I told
Bill I wanted. Just ask him.
Plus, I could multitask (albeit somewhat limited) on my A500 with 1mb of ram.
Huw Davies | e-mail:
Huw.Davies(a)latrobe.edu.au
Paul Braun
NerdWare -- The History of the PC and the Nerds who brought it to you.
nerdware(a)laidbak.com
www.laidbak.com/nerdware
6:36 p.m.
> Surly the AmigaDOS Guru meditation was both
earlier and more obscure?
Earlier? Probably. The Guru Meditation number dated from 1985 (at least
for those of us outside of the original program development). Obscure?
I think not. You got two numbers: a 32-bit error code, most of which were
expressions of MC68000 exception numbers (like odd address trap or bus
error) and a 32-bit process address of the offending process. If you cared
to, you could enter a ROM-based debugger (via the serial port at 9600 baud)
and walk through memory to see why things went astray. Most people just swore
and clicked the left button.
Later, there were some great exception handlers that would translate the
32-bit error code into something meaningful inside the flashing red box.
At first, we just looked up the number in the Rom Kernel Manuals (RKMs).
Anyone who programmed an Amiga in the first five years got used to the
most common 80% of the Guru numbers anyway. Usually it was something
stupid like bolixing up an address register or accessing non-existent
memory (except AmigaDOS 1.0 and 1.1 when a malloc failure Guru'ed the machine).
-ethan
(Amiga owner since 1986)
8 Feb
8 Feb
2:44 a.m.
On 8 Feb 99 at 0:36, Ethan Dicks wrote:
Ahh, but neither could compare to the obtruseness and expressiveness of
the ST bomb images, up to 13 of them, each number of them having multiple fault
reasons. Or the fault #s you would have to translate to another # to look it
up in the fault chart.
ciao
lwalker(a)interlog.com
> Surly the AmigaDOS Guru meditation was both
earlier and more obscure?
Earlier? Probably. The Guru Meditation number dated from 1985 (at least
for those of us outside of the original program development). Obscure?
I think not. You got two numbers: a 32-bit error code, most of which were
expressions of MC68000 exception numbers (like odd address trap or bus
error) and a 32-bit process address of the offending process. If you cared
to, you could enter a ROM-based debugger (via the serial port at 9600 baud)
and walk through memory to see why things went astray. Most people just swore
and clicked the left button.
Later, there were some great exception handlers that would translate the
32-bit error code into something meaningful inside the flashing red box.
At first, we just looked up the number in the Rom Kernel Manuals (RKMs).
Anyone who programmed an Amiga in the first five years got used to the
most common 80% of the Guru numbers anyway. Usually it was something
stupid like bolixing up an address register or accessing non-existent
memory (except AmigaDOS 1.0 and 1.1 when a malloc failure Guru'ed the machine).
-ethan
(Amiga owner since 1986)
7:53 a.m.
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3:31 a.m.
On 8 Feb 99 at 10:53, Cameron Kaiser wrote:
:: Ahh, but neither could compare to the obtruseness
and expressiveness of
::the ST bomb images, up to 13 of them, each number of them having multiple fault
::reasons. Or the fault #s you would have to translate to another # to look it
::up in the fault chart.
So that's what those things are in WinSTon.
Wash out your mouth with strong soap. Sacrilege !
Make the holy sign to keep away demons. Emulators BAD , emulators BAAAD !!
ciao larry
lwalker(a)interlog.com
9:19 a.m.
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9:58 a.m.
New subject: Evil emulators (was Re: ~OT: Computer misconceptions)
On Mon, 8 Feb 1999, Lawrence Walker wrote:
Wash out your mouth with strong soap. Sacrilege !
Make the holy sign to keep away demons. Emulators BAD , emulators BAAAD !!
Hey, without xtrs on my Linux notebook, I wouldn't be able to play my
Big-5 arcade games or my other old TRS-80 programs at work. I'm getting
a bit old to lug a 4p around, especially when there's risk of damaging
it in some of this nasty NYC weather. I wish somebody would write a
CoCo emulator where I didn't need to go through dosemu.
--
Ward Griffiths
"the timid die just like the daring; and if you don't take the plunge then
you'll just take the fall" Michael Longcor
12:38 p.m.
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11:04 a.m.
On Fri, 5 Feb 1999, Tony Duell wrote:
A high-density 3.5" disk does not store 1.44Mbytes
(for any reasonable
definition of Mbyte) :-)
I guess I skipped the discussion on how many it _does_ store. Could you
please give me the capacities of various common disks in bytes?
--Max Eskin (max82(a)surfree.com)
6 Feb
6 Feb
8:55 a.m.
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5 Feb
5 Feb
3:47 p.m.
> I'm thinking of putting together an FAQ-like
document intended to combat
> the stupid ideas people have about computers. So, does anyone
In the games machines world, I cringe when people call computer cartridges
"tapes".
This comes, I think, from the era when carts (eg: Exidy Sorcerer) came in
modified 8-track tape boxes.
Anybody care to discuss the history of the usage of "cartridge/tape"?
Another one... when people say they're "machine code programmers"... they
really mean they're "assembly language programmers". Front-panel users
excluded, there are very very few machine code programmers out there still
keying/toggling in 1s and 0s :)
A
--
adavie(a)mad.scientist.com
visit the Museum of Soviet Calculators at
http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/slide/calculator/soviet.html
a Yahoo!, Netscape, Wall Street Journal, Newsweek and New Scientist Cool
Site!?
10:05 p.m.
On Sat, 6 Feb 1999, Andrew Davie wrote:
In the games machines world, I cringe when people call
computer
cartridges "tapes". This comes, I think, from the era when carts (eg:
Exidy Sorcerer) came in modified 8-track tape boxes. Anybody care to
discuss the history of the usage of "cartridge/tape"?
Screw that. Anyone want to jump on the bandwagon of my campaign to
introduce "carthridge" as the proper spelling for "cartridge" and make
the
latter an alternate (or better yet obsolete) spelling of the word?
No reason, other than "carthridge" sounds better.
Another one... when people say they're
"machine code programmers"... they
really mean they're "assembly language programmers". Front-panel users
excluded, there are very very few machine code programmers out there still
keying/toggling in 1s and 0s :)
What about hexadecimal? I never coded anything in "assembler". I always
just plugged hex bytes into memory addresses through the Apple ][ monitor.
I never met an assembler I liked. Of course it sucked when you wanted to
insert bytes, but I got by thanks to the memory move feature in the
monitor.
I still remember all my machine code too. Try this on your Apple ][:
]CALL -151
*300: A0 00 B9 10 03 F0 07 20 ED FD C8 4C 02 03 60
*310: C8 C5 CC CC CF A0 C3 CC C1 D3 D3 C9 C3 C3 CD D0 A0 C4 CF CF C4 D3 00
*300G
Off the top of my head. DAMN, I'M GOOD!
Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Always hasslin' the man.
Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0
See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
[Last web site update: 01/15/99]
6 Feb
6 Feb
9:04 a.m.
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8 Feb
8 Feb
7:34 a.m.
Another one... when people say they're
"machine code programmers"... they
really mean they're "assembly language programmers". Front-panel users
excluded, there are very very few machine code programmers out there still
keying/toggling in 1s and 0s :)
Only if you consider hex key in and assisted codeing also
as 'front panel' usage.
Gruss
H.
--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK
7:23 a.m.
> I'm thinking of putting together an FAQ-like
document intended to combat
> the stupid ideas people have about computers. So, does anyone have any ideas
> [...]
Hard disk space and RAM are two different things (the
famous 'I don't
have enough memory but I installed a 1Gb hard disk yesterday)
Oh, and don't forget:
There is NO 640 K barrier in DOS.
DOS can handle well up to 1024 K of RAM.
(And the maximum addressable real mode Mem on 286+ PCs
is rather 1087K than 1024, but thats a different story)
A 3.5" floppy disk is not a 'hard disk'
And it's not 3.5" but rather a 90mm disk (case).
(And it's not quadratic)
Executing an existing program, or installing a
pre-written software
package are not 'programming'
And "Machine Language" is not Assembler (Language).
Programming a microprocessor is not (in general)
microprogramming
And the FD was invented to store a Micro Porgramm, and not for
Micro computers :))
Gruss
H.
--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK
5 Feb
5 Feb
2:03 p.m.
A classic misconception, fostered by humans... When your bill is wrong,
your bank
account balance screwed up, your paycheck short.. They say IT WAS A
COMPUTER ERROR!
Will
Max Eskin wrote:
Hi,
I'm thinking of putting together an FAQ-like document intended to combat
the stupid ideas people have about computers. So, does anyone have any ideas
for common misconceptions about computers that I should address? So far, I
have the places various things originated (i.e. IBM did _not_ invent the
PC, Apple did _not_ invent the GUI, etc.)
--Max Eskin (max82(a)surfree.com)
7:42 p.m.
On Thu, 4 Feb 1999, Max Eskin wrote:
I'm thinking of putting together an FAQ-like
document intended to combat
the stupid ideas people have about computers. So, does anyone have any ideas
for common misconceptions about computers that I should address? So far, I
have the places various things originated (i.e. IBM did _not_ invent the
PC, Apple did _not_ invent the GUI, etc.)
Microsoft did _not_ invent _anything_. ;)
Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Always hasslin' the man.
Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0
See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
[Last web site update: 01/15/99]
9291
days inactive
9295
days old
28 comments
15 participants
participants (15)
-
adavie＠mad.scientist.com -
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
ckaiser＠oa.ptloma.edu -
dastar＠ncal.verio.com -
doug＠blinkenlights.com -
erd＠infinet.com -
eric＠brouhaha.com -
gram＠cnct.com -
H.Davies＠latrobe.edu.au -
Hans.Franke＠mch20.sbs.de -
lemay＠cs.umn.edu -
lwalker＠mail.interlog.com -
max82＠surfree.com -
nerdware＠laidbak.com -
wpe101＠banet.net