22 Jun
1997
22 Jun
'97
9:12 a.m.
At 00:02 22-06-97 PDT, you wrote:
<snip>
Well, to get more specific, I have the (perhaps wrong)
feeling that:
a) You are against collectors who collect for the historical importance
onyl and are not really worried if the item works or not (as long as all
the parts are in there and the thing can be made to work if and when
required). I have been ridiculized when I suggested this one way to go
about collecting.
??? What on God's green Earth would make you think that? I collect a few
bits and pieces mainly for historical value (I've got an original Seagate
ST212 in one of my Micro-PDP11's that I don't ever plan to use; just
exhibit), and I've never been ridiculed.
Even if you have been jeered at, what of it? People have taken plenty of
pokes at me for my open criticism of Bill Gates, Microsoft, Intel, et al,
and my collecting of DEC stuff that's at least ten years old. My take on
this? Let 'em jeer. I see them as narrow-minded victims of the Wintel
monopoly's marketing sharks, and I am confident in the fact that I'll
likely forget more about computer hardware than such people will ever learn.
b) You are against collectors who want ot take out bits
and pieces from
the systems in order to show them separately (but retaining and perhaps
even ehibiting the "crippled" item). I have been refused help in thsi
respect when it became apparent I was going to do this.
I don't see an issue with this. What I do have a problem with is people
who just blindly throw 'bits and pieces' or entire machines on the scrap
heap just because they think they're "obsolete" (an overused word if ever
there was one!)
c) You are against helping "foreigners" (and
therefore "different")
collectors to export "your" stuff perhaps in the wrong perception that
it will diminish the heritage of the country (yours). I have striken a
?!? Good Lord, man, who's been beating you up? I would WELCOME aiding
anyone, in any country, that wanted to restore or collect some piece of
hardware that I'm familiar with and needed help to get it going (I
obviously can't be of much help with stuff I don't know anything about).
Tell you what... if you want proof of this, at least from me, I'd be happy
to offer any aid I can with the equipment that I'm familiar with. That
includes DEC stuff, from the PDP11/03 on up through the MicroPDP's and
VAXen. There are others on here who, I'm sure, would be willing to help you
in their particular areas of expertise.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272)
(Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin(a)wizards.net)
http://www.wizards.net/technoid
"Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own
human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."
22 Jun
22 Jun
9:27 a.m.
New subject: H8 Computer
What is a Heath H8 worth? A friend of mine turned my on to a Heathkit
H8, H19 terminal, 5 1/4" drives, 8" drives, and all manuals and docs.
The guy wants $100 for the lot and I don't know if this is reasonable or
not. I told him I am not interested in cheating or paying him a lot
less than what it might be worth, but I don't want to pay more either
:).
Also FWIW, he sold a Heathkit 6800 logic kit for $35 yesterday. Again,
I don't know if that is reasonable or not, but the unit did sound
interesting.
4:36 p.m.
New subject: H8 Computer
At 11:27 AM 6/22/97 -0700, you wrote:
What is a Heath H8 worth? A friend of mine turned my
on to a Heathkit
H8, H19 terminal, 5 1/4" drives, 8" drives, and all manuals and docs.
The guy wants $100 for the lot and I don't know if this is reasonable or
not. I told him I am not interested in cheating or paying him a lot
less than what it might be worth, but I don't want to pay more either
:).
Sigh... as with all things, it is worth as much or as little as you can
obtain it for. I have nearly all of the items you have listed in my
collection (except for the 8 inch drives) and it was all given to me.
So, would it be worth $100 to *me*? Probably not... If I was making an
offer, probably between $20-40 depending on condtion and what optional
cards were included. Its worth to you? Only you can decide.
Also FWIW, he sold a Heathkit 6800 logic kit for $35
yesterday. Again,
I don't know if that is reasonable or not, but the unit did sound
interesting.
See above... B^} (not sure I've ever seen one)
-jim
---
jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com
The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw
Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174
7:57 p.m.
New subject: apple II - SCORE!
OK, I just got my first decent item since I stopped collecting
several years ago. This is an original apple II, serial number 7833. It
came with what appears to be the Microsoft basic language card. The card
contains six 24 pin sockets, five filled by PROMs (C48040; each with an
APPLE 1978 sticker), a red switch on the back, and another sticker on the
board's surface reading: 851. Just below that sticker printed on the card
it says ROM CARD 600. There's also a disk II interface card, circa '78,
but the drive itself was unavailable. Could someone verify if that card
*is* the Integer BASIC replacement, or Microsoft BASIC?
The motherboard is functional, video works just fine, it seems
filled out with 48K of that old Military grade metal topped RAM; obviously
the PSU is good. The keyboard is a mess, hoewver. It's been sitting in a
basement for years, so many keys have gummed up; some seem to have been
in a perpetual depressed state waiting out obsolesence like Atlas. The
machine itself is filthy. The plastic case has just burned in grime from
years of use and then even more years of basement ambiance.
I'm guessing that some folks here may know a bit more about
system restoration. Mind if I ask a few questions?
How do I go about cleaning this without destroying the case? Does
anyone know of some good solvents or cleaners for plastic?
Can I pull a keytop off the keyboard without destroying the key?
If it's really bad I guess I could change keyboards - but I'd really like
to attempt to get this guy working, as it was the original.
And then there's stuff: I lack a floppy disk drive. Hmmm... how
rare is hard disk technology that will work with this apple? Hahaha,
here's a good one: does anyone know if ever there's been manufactured
10base-T cards, or am I just dreaming here? If so, guess I'll be looking
for a SuperSerial card as well.
And basic 'dumb' (no time to RTFM quite yet!!) questions: How do
I get out of the ROM monitor into BASIC? I guess I need some basic DOCS
here as well as a good technical reference, huh?. I figure most of the
'stuff' can be had on comp.sys.apple2.marketplace and the M.I.T. flea
fest approaching on July 20. If anyone wishes, however, please feel free
to offer items for sale. I want to get this computer clean and
*functional*, but I'm also not in a hury to do it tomorrow. ;-)
Price: I got it FREE! 8-))
And the guy couldn't imagine why I'd want it!!!
J. Maynard Gelinas
23 Jun
23 Jun
7:37 a.m.
New subject: apple II - SCORE!
On Mon, 23 Jun 1997, J. Maynard Gelinas wrote:
OK, I just got my first decent item since I stopped
collecting
several years ago. This is an original apple II, serial number 7833. It
Very nice.
I'm guessing that some folks here may know a bit
more about
system restoration. Mind if I ask a few questions?
How do I go about cleaning this without destroying the case? Does
anyone know of some good solvents or cleaners for plastic?
Get yourself a stiff-bristled plastic brush and a good cleaner like
perhaps Formula 405. Again, I use an organic cleaner called L.O.C. (an
Amway product). Flood the case with the cleaner and brush it with the
brush. It may not take off all the goop, but it will do a good job
(depending on your cleaner, mine works fantastic).
Can I pull a keytop off the keyboard without
destroying the key?
If it's really bad I guess I could change keyboards - but I'd really like
to attempt to get this guy working, as it was the original.
Spray your cleaner on the keyboard and scrub with the brush. It'll work
very well. When you're done, lift each key off (yes you can, they come
right off and you pop them right back on) and clean each individual one
around the sides as needed, but the brushing should have done the trick.
Clean all the hair, fuzzballs, food and other misceallny from the bottom
of the keys. Replace all the keycaps. Of course rememberto note down
where they all go.
And then there's stuff: I lack a floppy disk
drive. Hmmm... how
rare is hard disk technology that will work with this apple? Hahaha,
here's a good one: does anyone know if ever there's been manufactured
10base-T cards, or am I just dreaming here? If so, guess I'll be looking
for a SuperSerial card as well.
Yes and no. They have an Apple ][ Workstation Card but they only work on
the Apple //e.
And basic 'dumb' (no time to RTFM quite
yet!!) questions: How do
I get out of the ROM monitor into BASIC? I guess I need some basic DOCS
here as well as a good technical reference, huh?. I figure most of the
Press CTRL-C or CTRL-B and then RETURN.
And the guy couldn't imagine why I'd want
it!!!
What a fool! :)
Sam
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass
7:42 p.m.
New subject: apple II - SCORE!
On Mon, 23 Jun 1997, Sam Ismail wrote:
My girlfriend is a professional sculptress, I don't know why I
didn't ask her to begin with. She recommended plain amonia, which I was
sceptical of. I wanted to use Formula 405 basically because you had
recommended it. Well, the amonia worked great and the case looks nearly
brand new - it sure took several hours though. ;-) Never doubt a woman
competent with Dremel tools - for many reasons....
I was able to clean between the keys with a few tiny paint
brushes. However, as nice as it looks, it seams as though it's toast. A
few keys stick, several send multiple key bursts, and it doesn't seem as
though the keys are removeable - at least not like as I remember the old
TRS-80 Model 1 keyboard. You could remove the keys and actually clean the
contacts with alchohol. Is this possible, or am I just going to be able
to get dust bunnies between the keys?
[snip]
Thanks for your insight!
J. Maynard Gelinas
On Mon, 23 Jun 1997, J. Maynard Gelinas wrote:
[snip]
How do I go about cleaning this without destroying the case? Does
anyone know of some good solvents or cleaners for plastic?
Get yourself a stiff-bristled plastic brush and a good cleaner like
perhaps Formula 405. Again, I use an organic cleaner called L.O.C. (an
Amway product). Flood the case with the cleaner and brush it with the
brush. It may not take off all the goop, but it will do a good job
(depending on your cleaner, mine works fantastic).
Can I pull a
keytop off the keyboard without destroying the key?
If it's really bad I guess I could change keyboards - but I'd really like
to attempt to get this guy working, as it was the original.
Spray your cleaner on the keyboard and scrub with the brush. It'll work
very well. When you're done, lift each key off (yes you can, they come
right off and you pop them right back on) and clean each individual one
around the sides as needed, but the brushing should have done the trick.
Clean all the hair, fuzzballs, food and other misceallny from the bottom
of the keys. Replace all the keycaps. Of course rememberto note down
where they all go.
10:34 p.m.
New subject: apple II - SCORE!
nOn Tue, 24 Jun 1997, J. Maynard Gelinas wrote:
My girlfriend is a professional sculptress, I
don't know why I
didn't ask her to begin with. She recommended plain amonia, which I was
sceptical of. I wanted to use Formula 405 basically because you had
recommended it. Well, the amonia worked great and the case looks nearly
brand new - it sure took several hours though. ;-) Never doubt a woman
competent with Dremel tools - for many reasons....
Yes, Windex works well too.
brushes. However, as nice as it looks, it seams as
though it's toast. A
few keys stick, several send multiple key bursts, and it doesn't seem as
though the keys are removeable - at least not like as I remember the old
TRS-80 Model 1 keyboard. You could remove the keys and actually clean the
contacts with alchohol. Is this possible, or am I just going to be able
to get dust bunnies between the keys?
Whatever you do, don't let any alcohol get down into the key mechanism.
This happened to me on my //e keyboard once. No matter what I did, I
couldn't dry it out! It was shorted. I finally had to solder it out.
Since I needed an 'A' key, came up with all sorts of tricks to overcome
the missing key. First I wrote a keyboard driver which would intercept
TAB and translate it into 'A'. That worked OK, but it just didn't feel
right, plus it only worked when I was in BASIAC. So I soldered two wires
into the contact holes and pressed them together whenever I needed 'A'. I
was too lazy to order a new A-key. After I got sick of that, I took one
of my joysticks that I had previously busted apart in some tantrum of
frustration and re-commissioned one of the buttons as an 'A' key. It was
stiff but it worked and I went with this solution for a couple months
until I finally got around to ordering a new key. When it came a few
weeks (and five bucks!) later, it was for the new Apple //gs keyboard!
IDIOTS! Now I had to wait all over again for the key. I sent the wrong
one back, and apparently it got lost in the mail. So now I was out five
bucks as well! I think I used the joystick button for another couple
months until I finally got around to ordering the correct key. So let
this be a lesson to you! Don't try cleaning any of the keys with
alcohol. Perhaps you can disassemble it and run it through the dishwasher?
Sam
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass
7:57 p.m.
New subject: apple II - SCORE!
Sam,
> brushes. However, as nice as it looks, it seams as though it's toast. A
> few keys stick, several send multiple key bursts, and it doesn't seem as
> though the keys are removeable - at least not like as I remember the old
> TRS-80 Model 1 keyboard. You could remove the keys and actually clean the
> contacts with alchohol. Is this possible, or am I just going to be able
> to get dust bunnies between the keys?
I did pull off the keycaps on that apple II if you use right type of
pull that loops under both sides for even force and unsolder that
switch, tear it down and clean it, then put back together.
Lots of solderable keyswitches are "tear down"able after you clean up
the solder lugs just in case. They're held together by snaps.
Sam,
Nip! Sad story about key problem...
Can't you take that switch apart and clean it with alcohol? I had to
do that on my "speedy". Generic keyboard but used good quality gold
contacts switch in it only minor cleaning there then it worked 100%
The one key tab needed pounding to get anything but now I just
merely poke it. :) Total time of repair: 15 to 20 mins.
Sam
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass
Jason D.
24 Jun
24 Jun
8:40 a.m.
New subject: apple II - SCORE!
On Tue, 24 Jun 1997 jpero(a)mail.cgo.wave.ca wrote:
Nip! Sad story about key problem...
Can't you take that switch apart and clean it with alcohol? I had to
do that on my "speedy". Generic keyboard but used good quality gold
contacts switch in it only minor cleaning there then it worked 100%
The one key tab needed pounding to get anything but now I just
merely poke it. :) Total time of repair: 15 to 20 mins.
I don't think you can do that with apple keys. Once they're broke
they're broke. I could be wrong about this. I've just never tried it.
At the time, I don't think I would've had the dexterity necessary to fix
the key. At the very least I didn't have the brain capacity to think
about it.
Sam
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass
9891
days inactive
9893
days old
8 comments
6 participants
participants (6)
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dastar＠crl.com -
jimw＠agora.rdrop.com -
jpero＠mail.cgo.wave.ca -
kyrrin＠wizards.net -
marvin＠rain.org -
maynard＠jmg.com