15 Sep
2003
15 Sep
'03
8:42 a.m.
http://marketplace.vintage.org
If you haven't visited yet then you're missing out on a lot of good stuff
that's currently listed for for great prices. Here's a link to all the
currently listed free stuff:
I stopped by there right before posting my email. I do plan to test the
waters there to see what happens.
What made me decide to post the email was because I have someone
interested in one of my 128k Macs, but I have zero idea what the value
is. eBay shows none for sale, or sold recently, and nothing turned up on
the vintage market place either (although it is my first look there, so
I've not figured out all the search nuances yet).
I could have simply asked what is a 128k Mac worth, but since that is
just the item of *right now* and I have 4 offices full of similar items I
need to do something with, I figured it was easier to see where people
used to find the value of stuff.
-chris
<http://www.mythtech.net>
15 Sep
15 Sep
9:05 a.m.
Your best bet for mac stuff is the swap list from www.lowendmac.com, its
very active and if you can check out the archive it would give you a good
idea what stuff sells for.
----- Original Message -----
From: "chris" <cb(a)mythtech.net>
To: "Classic Computer" <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 1:34 PM
Subject: Re: Price Check on Aisle 5
http://marketplace.vintage.org
If you haven't visited yet then you're missing out on a lot of good stuff
that's currently listed for for great prices. Here's a link to all the
currently listed free stuff:
I stopped by there right before posting my email. I do plan to test the
waters there to see what happens.
What made me decide to post the email was because I have someone
interested in one of my 128k Macs, but I have zero idea what the value
is. eBay shows none for sale, or sold recently, and nothing turned up on
the vintage market place either (although it is my first look there, so
I've not figured out all the search nuances yet).
I could have simply asked what is a 128k Mac worth, but since that is
just the item of *right now* and I have 4 offices full of similar items I
need to do something with, I figured it was easier to see where people
used to find the value of stuff.
-chris
<http://www.mythtech.net> 
10:33 a.m.
New subject: OT: need to drive a vector CRT...
I know this is off topic for the list, but you folks are my best choice
for the kind of knowledge I'm after. :)
The task at hand is driving a 4" diameter vector CRT. _Any_ 4" vector CRT
would work, but it has to be round. I have to be able to drive this from
a PC. I'm building an F-15C flight simulator out of real parts - one of
which is the mortal remains of an ALR/56C electronic countermeasures
display. The original electronics are basically junk due to excessive
shock from ground impact. This leaves me with a nice shell that a 4"
round CRT is needed for. It's my understanding that it's possible to
drive a CRT like this "oscilloscope style". Where can I find out
information on how to do this? Is there any kind of black box that I can
buy or build that will allow me to feed an NTSC or VGA signal in one end
and get a correct vector signal out the other?
For those interested, you can see my project at http://www.f15sim.com.
Thanks all!
g.
10:38 a.m.
New subject: OT: need to drive a vector CRT...
And thusly Gene Buckle spake:
I know this is off topic for the list, but you folks are my best choice
for the kind of knowledge I'm after. :)
The task at hand is driving a 4" diameter vector CRT. _Any_ 4" vector CRT
would work, but it has to be round. I have to be able to drive this from
a PC. I'm building an F-15C flight simulator out of real parts - one of
which is the mortal remains of an ALR/56C electronic countermeasures
display. The original electronics are basically junk due to excessive
shock from ground impact. This leaves me with a nice shell that a 4"
round CRT is needed for. It's my understanding that it's possible to
drive a CRT like this "oscilloscope style". Where can I find out
information on how to do this? Is there any kind of black box that I can
buy or build that will allow me to feed an NTSC or VGA signal in one end
and get a correct vector signal out the other?
At http://www.xgamestation.com/view_product.php?id=2 about a vector display
interface coming soon. Maybe emailing Andre will get you some information
about it.
Cheers,
Bryan
For those interested, you can see my project at
http://www.f15sim.com.
Thanks all!
g.
11:05 a.m.
New subject: OT: need to drive a vector CRT...
At http://www.xgamestation.com/view_product.php?id=2
about a vector display
interface coming soon. Maybe emailing Andre will get you some information
about it.
That's interesting Bryan, but I need something a bit less in the vaporware
category. :(
I'll keep it mind though...
g.
1:15 p.m.
New subject: OT: need to drive a vector CRT...
On Mon, 15 Sep 2003, Gene Buckle wrote:
Gene,
It's not vaporware. It's a real, working circuit. I've seen it. It
works. It's very cool. Andre' is just not sure if it will become a
product or not...it depends on demand.
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ]
[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]
At
http://www.xgamestation.com/view_product.php?id=2 about a vector display
interface coming soon. Maybe emailing Andre will get you some information
about it.
That's interesting Bryan, but I need something a bit less in the vaporware
category. :(
1:36 p.m.
New subject: OT: need to drive a vector CRT...
At http://www.xgamestation.com/view_product.php?id=2
about a vector display
interface coming soon. Maybe emailing Andre will get you some information
about it.
That's interesting Bryan, but I need something a bit less in the vaporware
category. :(
1:09 p.m.
New subject: OT: need to drive a vector CRT...
On Mon, 15 Sep 2003, Bryan Pope wrote:
At http://www.xgamestation.com/view_product.php?id=2
about a vector display
interface coming soon. Maybe emailing Andre will get you some information
about it.
You'll still have to design and build a doohickey to take an NTSC or VGA
input signal and convert it to a vector signal, if that's even feasible.
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ]
[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]
1:27 p.m.
New subject: OT: need to drive a vector CRT...
At
http://www.xgamestation.com/view_product.php?id=2 about a vector display
interface coming soon. Maybe emailing Andre will get you some information
about it.
You'll still have to design and build a doohickey to take an NTSC or VGA
input signal and convert it to a vector signal, if that's even feasible.
11:01 a.m.
New subject: OT: need to drive a vector CRT...
there is a arcade game emulator called "mame" that has emulation of
vector graphic but uses ordinary raster scanned (runs on normal vga).
You'd have a lot better maintainability and quality if you took a regular
vga monitor and wrote code to take in your vector plot data and made
a custom driver for a "game" that mame could run which would paint
your vector stuff on the screen.
You would use a 5": vga color painting green lines, and would restrict
the thing with a mask in the software to keep it in the confines of the
console punchout's geometry. I would think that even the air force
might options such a product to replace their units...
Jim
Gene Buckle wrote:
I know this is off topic for the list, but you folks
are my best choice
for the kind of knowledge I'm after. :)
The task at hand is driving a 4" diameter vector CRT. _Any_ 4" vector CRT
would work, but it has to be round. I have to be able to drive this from
a PC. I'm building an F-15C flight simulator out of real parts - one of
which is the mortal remains of an ALR/56C electronic countermeasures
display. The original electronics are basically junk due to excessive
shock from ground impact. This leaves me with a nice shell that a 4"
round CRT is needed for. It's my understanding that it's possible to
drive a CRT like this "oscilloscope style". Where can I find out
information on how to do this? Is there any kind of black box that I can
buy or build that will allow me to feed an NTSC or VGA signal in one end
and get a correct vector signal out the other?
For those interested, you can see my project at http://www.f15sim.com.
Thanks all!
g.
11:29 a.m.
New subject: OT: need to drive a vector CRT...
there is a arcade game emulator called
"mame" that has emulation of
vector graphic but uses ordinary raster scanned (runs on normal vga).
You'd have a lot better maintainability and quality if you took a regular
vga monitor and wrote code to take in your vector plot data and made
a custom driver for a "game" that mame could run which would paint
your vector stuff on the screen.
You would use a 5": vga color painting green lines, and would restrict
the thing with a mask in the software to keep it in the confines of the
console punchout's geometry. I would think that even the air force
might options such a product to replace their units...
Jim, the vector requirement is one of hardware, not software. Trust me,
if I could buy a 4" round raster CRT, I'd jump on it. The whole problem
is due to the size constraints. that I'm faced with. A 5" CRT is actually
too large to be properly fit within the confines of the original
enclosure. I therefore have to use a 4" tube from an oscilloscope as a
replacement. To my (limited!) knowledge, no one makes such a thing in a
raster drive configuration.
If you look at http://www.f15sim.com/images/tews_teardown_sm.jpg (view
tews_teardown.jpg for a much larger image) you'll see what I have to work
with. Due to screen burn on the CRT, I've discovered that there are
quadrant marks that are painted along the edge of the CRT circumference,
much like a clock. This means that for my simulation to be correct, the
replacement must be round. A square tube or LCD would give far too small
an image. I'm going to write the driver software myself, but I have to be
able to drive the screen first. :) If I could find a ready-made NTSC or
VGA to vector converter, I'd be set.
Thanks!
g.
11:37 a.m.
New subject: OT: need to drive a vector CRT...
A thought occurs to me: there is a piece of video test gear called a
Vectorscope - used to determine the proper alignment of the TV color
signal phase vectors... anyway, a lot of companies, from Heathkit to
Tekronix, made these, and the older ones can be had at swpameets (or on
eBay) for pretty cheap.
Then, you'd have all the circuitry needed to drive the CRT (and quite
possibly a 4" CRT in the bargain)... the interfacing task is redused to
just DACs and opamps to feed the vectorscope guts....
I think if I had to produce a 'real' stroke display that's the route
I'd
investigate first.
Cheers
John
3:48 p.m.
New subject: OT: need to drive a vector CRT...
Try to get an HP1350 or HP 1351 graphics translator, or graphics
generator. These are not all that
hard to find, and they generate excellent quality vectors, driven by a
GPIB interface.
Very cool, real vintage vector hardware!
And by the way, NO raster based display can ever do a credible job of
simulating a 'real' vector
display. The aircraft cockpit had ~real~ vectors, not a raster display,
and for a good reason.
Use real vectors, accept no substitutes.
John Lawson wrote:
A thought occurs to me: there is a piece of video
test gear called a
Vectorscope - used to determine the proper alignment of the TV color
signal phase vectors... anyway, a lot of companies, from Heathkit to
Tekronix, made these, and the older ones can be had at swpameets (or on
eBay) for pretty cheap.
Then, you'd have all the circuitry needed to drive the CRT (and quite
possibly a 4" CRT in the bargain)... the interfacing task is redused to
just DACs and opamps to feed the vectorscope guts....
I think if I had to produce a 'real' stroke display that's the route
I'd
investigate first.
Cheers
John
4:19 p.m.
New subject: OT: need to drive a vector CRT...
Try to get an HP1350 or HP 1351 graphics translator,
or graphics
generator. These are not all that
hard to find, and they generate excellent quality vectors, driven by a
GPIB interface.
Very cool, real vintage vector hardware!
Thanks Bob. If the ZVG board doesn't work out for some reason, I'll check
that out.
And by the way, NO raster based display can ever do a
credible job of
simulating a 'real' vector
display. The aircraft cockpit had ~real~ vectors, not a raster display,
and for a good reason.
Use real vectors, accept no substitutes.
Well, when a 5"x5" color CRT would set me back $5300.00 for *one*,
I'll
accept whatever substitution I can get my paws on. :) Square CRTs are
priced _way_ out of the hobbiest budget. They're flight certified,
ruggedized, etc. Hell the jettison selector switch in the MPCD is $1300 a
pop. It's built with anti-corrosion coating, etc. on it. WAY too much
for my meager needs.
g.
4:26 p.m.
New subject: OT: need to drive a vector CRT...
A thought occurs to me: there is a piece of video
test gear called a
Vectorscope - used to determine the proper alignment of the TV color
A 'vectorscope' has nothing to do with a vector display. A vectorscope is
a device used to display the amplitude and phase of a waveform, often the
colour part of a video signal.
A normal oscilloscope, in XY mode, is almost the same thing as a vector
display, and is much more likely to be what you need.... And yes, then,
DACs to feed the X,Y and Z (intensity) inputs are basically what you need.
-tony
4:41 p.m.
New subject: OT: need to drive a vector CRT...
On Tue, 16 Sep 2003, Tony Duell wrote:
A 'vectorscope' has nothing to do with a vector display. A vectorscope is
a device used to display the amplitude and phase of a waveform, often the
colour part of a video signal.
Quite right, TD, but... I specifically mentioned this type of
instrument because I felt that it would already have a good deal of the
basic electronic requirements in place. Yes, a regular 'scope would also
suffice, perhaps cheaper, but an old Vectorscope would come without the
'baggage' of sweep and trigger circuits... viewing the Project from a
K.I.S.S. standpoint, there is a decision tree to be followed....
Cheers
John
4:47 p.m.
New subject: OT: need to drive a vector CRT...
Quite right, TD, but... I specifically mentioned
this type of
instrument because I felt that it would already have a good deal of the
basic electronic requirements in place. Yes, a regular 'scope would also
suffice, perhaps cheaper, but an old Vectorscope would come without the
'baggage' of sweep and trigger circuits... viewing the Project from a
Eh? A vectorscope is a lot more than just an XY display. In fact it's got
more 'baggage' than a normal 'scope I think.
A 'scope with XY mode is really what you need....
-tony
12:07 p.m.
New subject: OT: need to drive a vector CRT...
On Mon, 15 Sep 2003, Gene Buckle wrote:
When you say CRT do you mean just the tube or the whole display system? There
is no such thing as a raster CRT if you are only talking about the tube. The
raster aspect concerns the surrounding electronics and deflection yoke (if
magnetic)
If you have to drive a 4" round tube and you need to make the electronics then
why not just raster scan an electrostatic CRT with VGA timing. No need to do
the vector hardware, as the sweep generators to do raster scan would be easier
to do than the vector generator, and you would be VGA compatible on the
computer side.
there is a
arcade game emulator called "mame" that has emulation of
vector graphic but uses ordinary raster scanned (runs on normal vga).
You'd have a lot better maintainability and quality if you took a regular
vga monitor and wrote code to take in your vector plot data and made
a custom driver for a "game" that mame could run which would paint
your vector stuff on the screen.
You would use a 5": vga color painting green lines, and would restrict
the thing with a mask in the software to keep it in the confines of the
console punchout's geometry. I would think that even the air force
might options such a product to replace their units...
Jim, the vector requirement is one of hardware, not software. Trust me,
if I could buy a 4" round raster CRT, I'd jump on it. The whole problem
is due to the size constraints. that I'm faced with. A 5" CRT is actually
too large to be properly fit within the confines of the original
enclosure. I therefore have to use a 4" tube from an oscilloscope as a
replacement. To my (limited!) knowledge, no one makes such a thing in a
raster drive configuration.
If you look at http://www.f15sim.com/images/tews_teardown_sm.jpg (view
tews_teardown.jpg for a much larger image) you'll see what I have to work
with. Due to screen burn on the CRT, I've discovered that there are
quadrant marks that are painted along the edge of the CRT circumference,
much like a clock. This means that for my simulation to be correct, the
replacement must be round. A square tube or LCD would give far too small
an image. I'm going to write the driver software myself, but I have to be
able to drive the screen first. :) If I could find a ready-made NTSC or
VGA to vector converter, I'd be set.
Thanks!
g.
Peter Wallace
12:14 p.m.
New subject: Damn HP!
Damn HP !
I'm (still) the proud owner of a HP 7980S SCSI 9-track magtape
drive, and dammit, I need some config info for that thing.. it
WILL NOT write tapes at 1600bpi. Does anyone here have a tip,
or, better, a manual for that thing??
(no, CONF 46 wont force it to 1600...)
--fred (*grunt*)
12:21 p.m.
New subject: Damn HP!
We have a bunch of those here. As I recall, when you load the tape it will
read what's on it and set the density automatically to match what is already
on it. I think there's a way to override that... let me check with the
people here that use them.
Jay West
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fred N. van Kempen" <waltje(a)pdp11.nl>
To: <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 4:04 PM
Subject: Damn HP!
Damn HP !
I'm (still) the proud owner of a HP 7980S SCSI 9-track magtape
drive, and dammit, I need some config info for that thing.. it
WILL NOT write tapes at 1600bpi. Does anyone here have a tip,
or, better, a manual for that thing??
(no, CONF 46 wont force it to 1600...)
--fred (*grunt*)
12:24 p.m.
New subject: OT: need to drive a vector CRT...
If you have to drive a 4" round tube and you need
to make the electronics then
why not just raster scan an electrostatic CRT with VGA timing. No need to do
the vector hardware, as the sweep generators to do raster scan would be easier
to do than the vector generator, and you would be VGA compatible on the
computer side.
My problem is that my electronics ability is far outstripped by my
requirements. :) I have _no_ clue how to actually implment what you just
described.
g.
11:41 a.m.
New subject: OT: need to drive a vector CRT...
Gene Buckle <geneb(a)deltasoft.com> wrote:
I know this is off topic for the list, but you folks
are my best choice
for the kind of knowledge I'm after. :)
The task at hand is driving a 4" diameter vector CRT. _Any_ 4" vector CRT
would work, but it has to be round. I have to be able to drive this from
a PC. I'm building an F-15C flight simulator out of real parts - one of
which is the mortal remains of an ALR/56C electronic countermeasures
display. The original electronics are basically junk due to excessive
shock from ground impact. This leaves me with a nice shell that a 4"
round CRT is needed for. It's my understanding that it's possible to
drive a CRT like this "oscilloscope style". Where can I find out
information on how to do this? Is there any kind of black box that I can
buy or build that will allow me to feed an NTSC or VGA signal in one end
and get a correct vector signal out the other?
For those interested, you can see my project at http://www.f15sim.com.
Maybe this is what you are looking for:
http://www.zektor.com/zvg/index.htm
--
The ears are too length.
--------------------------------------------------------
tim lindner tlindner(a)ix.netcom.com
12:04 p.m.
New subject: OT: need to drive a vector CRT...
For those
interested, you can see my project at http://www.f15sim.com.
Maybe this is what you are looking for:
http://www.zektor.com/zvg/index.htm
12:52 p.m.
New subject: OT: need to drive a vector CRT...
The task at hand is driving a 4" diameter vector
CRT. _Any_ 4" vector CRT
would work, but it has to be round.
As you have probably found out by now, 4 inch CRTs are real oddballs. The
only "production" (that is "over the counter") CRTs of this size I
know of
are the 4AP1 and 4AP10, and they are almost nonexistant.
I have to be able to drive this from
a PC. I'm building an F-15C flight simulator out of real parts - one of
which is the mortal remains of an ALR/56C electronic countermeasures
display.
Frankly, your best bet is to find another AN/ALR-56 display. One should
turn up eventually. What is the IP- number of the box?
The original electronics are basically junk due to
excessive
shock from ground impact.
Crash?
William Donzelli
aw288(a)osfn.org
1:17 p.m.
New subject: OT: need to drive a vector CRT...
As you have probably found out by now, 4 inch CRTs are
real oddballs. The
only "production" (that is "over the counter") CRTs of this size I
know of
are the 4AP1 and 4AP10, and they are almost nonexistant.
I may find one at http://www.russiantubes.com. If not, I can suffer with
a 3" crt.
I have to be
able to drive this from
a PC. I'm building an F-15C flight simulator out of real parts - one of
which is the mortal remains of an ALR/56C electronic countermeasures
display.
Frankly, your best bet is to find another AN/ALR-56 display. One should
turn up eventually. What is the IP- number of the box?
The original
electronics are basically junk due to excessive
shock from ground impact.
Crash?
3:09 p.m.
New subject: OT: need to drive a vector CRT...
On Mon, 15 Sep 2003, Gene Buckle wrote:
Yep. The jet had a flameout on take off and since it
was too heavy to
horse into the air safely on one engine, the pilot punched out. The jet
hit the ground at 300Kts+ and the cockpit section broke free of the main
fuselage which burned. This happened in 1996. I managed to get the HUD,
MPCD, TEWS and VSD plus other sundry parts out of the wreck. It was the
ultimate find for my project for sure. Every one of those boxes are made
of 100% pure Unobtainum. (they also happent to be filled with glass
shards. :) )
Somewhat on the same subject, what would be the chances of obtaining a
flight computer from the F14A?
I would REALLY like to get my hands on one.
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ]
[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]
3:27 p.m.
New subject: OT: need to drive a vector CRT...
Somewhat on the same subject, what would be the
chances of obtaining a
flight computer from the F14A?
I would guess zero. Something like that would be on the destroy list.
(Class C or D I think - it's been too long since I investigated such
things). Basically the only chance you've got is finding one that escaped
the system sideways and wasn't destroyed by the DRMO folks. For instance,
the 2nd AN/ALR-56C display I have I bought off of eBay from a surplus
dealer that got it in an Estate Sale.
Do you happen to have an F-14A that needs one? :)
g.
4:48 p.m.
New subject: OT: need to drive a vector CRT...
On Mon, 15 Sep 2003, Gene Buckle wrote:
I would guess zero. Something like that would be on
the destroy list.
Hmmm...
(Class C or D I think - it's been too long since I
investigated such
things). Basically the only chance you've got is finding one that escaped
the system sideways and wasn't destroyed by the DRMO folks. For instance,
the 2nd AN/ALR-56C display I have I bought off of eBay from a surplus
dealer that got it in an Estate Sale.
So there are no graveyards somewhere in Arizona with decommissioned planes
waiting to be scrapped as I've heard?
Do you happen to have an F-14A that needs one? :)
No, but the computer is significant in many, many ways, not the least of
which is that it contains a microprocessor that predates the Intel 4004:
http://www.microcomputerhistory.com
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ]
[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]
5:21 p.m.
New subject: OT: need to drive a vector CRT...
(Class C or D
I think - it's been too long since I investigated such
things). Basically the only chance you've got is finding one that escaped
the system sideways and wasn't destroyed by the DRMO folks. For instance,
the 2nd AN/ALR-56C display I have I bought off of eBay from a surplus
dealer that got it in an Estate Sale.
So there are no graveyards somewhere in Arizona with decommissioned planes
waiting to be scrapped as I've heard?
> Do you happen to have an F-14A that
needs
one? :) >
No, but the computer is significant in many, many
ways, not the least of
which is that it contains a microprocessor that predates the Intel 4004:
http://www.microcomputerhistory.com
That is very cool. Unfortunately, I don't think you'll ever get one. You
might be able to get your hands on some pictures possibly. You should
check with the public relations dept. of the Navy and see if their
historical research branch can help you out. If this was a USAF bird, I
could tell you exactly who to talk to...
g.
6:55 p.m.
New subject: OT: need to drive a vector CRT...
On Mon, 15 Sep 2003, Gene Buckle wrote:
That is very cool. Unfortunately, I don't think you'll ever get one. You
might be able to get your hands on some pictures possibly. You should
That site was built by Ray Holt who was featured at VCF 2.0 where he first
revealed this information. I've gotten a lot of great stuff from him,
including photos of the chip masks, photos of the prototype computer, and
other interesting things. Ray's got the original first fab prototype
chips. It would be great--nay, it is imperative--to get an actual
instance of the computer for preservation.
check with the public relations dept. of the Navy and
see if their
historical research branch can help you out. If this was a USAF bird, I
could tell you exactly who to talk to...
It was Navy. But perhaps your contact might be useful nonetheless?
Please e-mail me privately.
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ]
[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]
5:23 p.m.
New subject: OT: need to drive a vector CRT...
Somewhat on
the same subject, what would be the chances of obtaining a
flight computer from the F14A?
I would guess zero. Something like that would be on the destroy list.
5:48 p.m.
New subject: OT: need to drive a vector CRT...
Somewhat on the same subject, what would be the
chances of obtaining a
flight computer from the F14A?
I would guess zero. Something like that would be on the destroy list. 
6:06 p.m.
New subject: OT: need to drive a vector CRT...
On Mon, 15 Sep 2003, Gene Buckle wrote:
As far as I'm concerned, they can go back up. I
have a friend that
flies the F-15E that would be more than happy to make it rain scrap
metal all over the desert. :)
Iran isn't a desert. 8-)
Peace... Sridhar
6:42 p.m.
New subject: OT: need to drive a vector CRT...
On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 vance(a)neurotica.com wrote:
On Mon, 15 Sep 2003, Gene Buckle wrote:
See? More edumakation. :)
g.
As far as I'm concerned, they can go back up.
I have a friend that
flies the F-15E that would be more than happy to make it rain scrap
metal all over the desert. :)
Iran isn't a desert. 8-)
16 Sep
16 Sep
4:18 a.m.
New subject: OT: need to drive a vector CRT...
At 10:57 PM 9/15/03 -0400, you wrote:
On Mon, 15 Sep 2003, Gene Buckle wrote:
Yes but we can change that!
Joe
As far as I'm concerned, they can go back up.
I have a friend that
flies the F-15E that would be more than happy to make it rain scrap
metal all over the desert. :)
Iran isn't a desert. 8-)
8:05 a.m.
New subject: OT: need to drive a vector CRT...
On Tue, 16 Sep 2003, Joe wrote:
At 10:57 PM 9/15/03 -0400, you wrote:
Not cool.
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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On Mon, 15 Sep 2003, Gene Buckle wrote:
Yes but we can change that! As far as I'm concerned, they can go back up.
I have a friend that
flies the F-15E that would be more than happy to make it rain scrap
metal all over the desert. :)
Iran isn't a desert. 8-)
7:27 p.m.
New subject: OT: need to drive a vector CRT...
On Tue, 16 Sep 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote:
Yes but we can change that!
Not cool.
*So* not cool.
Peace... Sridhar
As far as
I'm concerned, they can go back up. I have a friend
that flies the F-15E that would be more than happy to make it rain
scrap metal all over the desert. :)
Iran isn't a desert. 8-)
15 Sep
15 Sep
6:58 p.m.
New subject: OT: need to drive a vector CRT...
On Mon, 15 Sep 2003, William Donzelli wrote:
If you are talking about the AN/AWG-9, basically ZERO. You must remember
that Iran has a bunch of neutered F-14s. One of the things they really
need to get them flying is a bunch of /AWG-9 parts. There are a lot of
people that would really like those F-14s to stay on the ground.
Nope, it's not the AN/AWG-9:
http://www.raytheon.com/products/awg9_apg71/
...which is the weapon control computer. What I'm after is the flight
control computer. Any chance you might know the part number for that?
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
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Somewhat on the same subject, what would be the
chances of obtaining a
flight computer from the F14A?
I would guess zero. Something like that would be on the destroy list.
3:22 p.m.
New subject: OT: need to drive a vector CRT...
Frankly, your best bet is to find another AN/ALR-56
display. One should
turn up eventually. What is the IP- number of the box?
Here's the IP number:
IP-1164B/ALR-56C
The NSN is 5865-01-289-9651EW and it's made by Loral Electronic Systems.
I did verify that the tube is indeed a 4" tube. The 4AP10 CRT number that
you mentioned I found online for $85.
If you have access to the documentation on the unit I've got, I would
_love_ to get the tube specs and pinouts.
It also has a set of symbols like this: [O] burned into the 12 o'clock
position. Any idea what that's for?
Thanks!
g.
3:53 p.m.
New subject: OT: need to drive a vector CRT...
Yep, but I can't tell ya!
(ex USAF vector-pusher)
Gene Buckle wrote:
Frankly, your
best bet is to find another AN/ALR-56 display. One should
turn up eventually. What is the IP- number of the box?
Here's the IP number:
IP-1164B/ALR-56C
The NSN is 5865-01-289-9651EW and it's made by Loral Electronic Systems.
I did verify that the tube is indeed a 4" tube. The 4AP10 CRT number that
you mentioned I found online for $85.
If you have access to the documentation on the unit I've got, I would
_love_ to get the tube specs and pinouts.
It also has a set of symbols like this: [O] burned into the 12 o'clock
position. Any idea what that's for?
Thanks!
g.
4:22 p.m.
New subject: OT: need to drive a vector CRT...
Yep, but I can't tell ya!
You have no idea how tired I get of that answer. :) With this project, I
get it a _lot_. I'm surprised I haven't gone nuts and thrown some poor
crew chief into a pillory and beat him with a hose until he coughed up
some obscure bit of data I needed. *grin*
Can you tell me what the doc # is that describes it? I'm not beyond
beating some poor civil servant about the head and shoulders with a FOIA
request. :)
g.
5:19 p.m.
New subject: OT: need to drive a vector CRT...
IP-1164B/ALR-56C
The NSN is 5865-01-289-9651EW and it's made by Loral Electronic Systems.
OK. I know I don't have one, but I can put it on my watch list.
I did verify that the tube is indeed a 4" tube.
The 4AP10 CRT number that
you mentioned I found online for $85.
The problem is that the 4AP10 is the one you simply can't use. P10 is a
bizarre dark phosphor, with a very VERY long persistance.
If you have access to the documentation on the unit
I've got, I would
_love_ to get the tube specs and pinouts.
I'll post a query on the TCA list. Tube geeks, basically...
It also has a set of symbols like this: [O] burned
into the 12 o'clock
position. Any idea what that's for?
My guess is "no threat".
William Donzelli
aw288(a)osfn.org
5:44 p.m.
New subject: OT: need to drive a vector CRT...
IP-1164B/ALR-56C
The NSN is 5865-01-289-9651EW and it's made by Loral Electronic Systems.
OK. I know I don't have one, but I can put it on my watch list.
The problem is that the 4AP10 is the one you simply
can't use. P10 is a
bizarre dark phosphor, with a very VERY long persistance.
What was it originally used for? Is the 4AP1 usable?
If you have
access to the documentation on the unit I've got, I would
_love_ to get the tube specs and pinouts.
I'll post a query on the TCA list. Tube geeks, basically...
6:28 p.m.
New subject: OT: need to drive a vector CRT...
I'd be surprised if you found one.
Hope springs eternal. That, and I am in the surplus business.
What was it originally used for?
Very odd physics experiments.
Is the 4AP1 usable?
Yes, P1 is basically green, like many old radar scopes.
William Donzelli
aw288(a)osfn.org
6:47 p.m.
New subject: OT: need to drive a vector CRT...
I'd be
surprised if you found one.
Hope springs eternal. That, and I am in the surplus business.
Is the 4AP1
usable?
Yes, P1 is basically green, like many old radar scopes.
4:26 p.m.
New subject: OT: need to drive a vector CRT...
I know this is off topic for the list, but you folks
are my best choice
for the kind of knowledge I'm after. :)
The task at hand is driving a 4" diameter vector CRT. _Any_ 4" vector CRT
What the heck is a 'vector CRT'? AFAIK such things don't exist. whether a
CRT displays 'vectors' (meaning you deflect the electron beam to a point,
turn it on, then move it along a line to display that line), or a
'raster' (meaning you scan out a series of lines and modulate the beam to
display an image) depends on the external circuitry, not the CRT itself.
Magnetically-deflected CRTs (like those in most monitors and TVs) are
generally easier to use to display a raster, but
electrostatically-deflected CRTs ('scopes, 'vector displays', etc) can be
used for either.
round CRT is needed for. It's my understanding
that it's possible to
drive a CRT like this "oscilloscope style". Where can I find out
Yes. It's alos possible to display a raster on it. In fact I've _seen_ a
good 'scope (with 2 timebases) be used to display a TV-rate image.
information on how to do this? Is there any kind of
black box that I can
buy or build that will allow me to feed an NTSC or VGA signal in one end
and get a correct vector signal out the other?
It's non-trivial to turn a raster image into an optimised vector image
(which would involve finding lines in the image, and then drawing them).
It's not as hard to make a framestore that outputs the 2 deflection
signals and intensity to drive a 'scope-like CRT in raster mode.
The problem with doing this is that you might not be able to get enough
intenstity out of the CRT to display a raster in a useable manner...
-tony
4:56 p.m.
New subject: OT: need to drive a vector CRT...
The task at
hand is driving a 4" diameter vector CRT. _Any_ 4" vector CRT
What the heck is a 'vector CRT'? AFAIK such things don't exist. whether a
CRT displays 'vectors' (meaning you deflect the electron beam to a point,
turn it on, then move it along a line to display that line), or a
'raster' (meaning you scan out a series of lines and modulate the beam to
display an image) depends on the external circuitry, not the CRT itself.
Magnetically-deflected CRTs (like those in most monitors and TVs) are
generally easier to use to display a raster, but
electrostatically-deflected CRTs ('scopes, 'vector displays', etc) can be
used for either.
9:25 a.m.
On Mon, 15 Sep 2003, chris wrote:
I could have simply asked what is a 128k Mac worth,
but since that is
just the item of *right now* and I have 4 offices full of similar items I
Michael Nadeau's book lists it anywhere from $50 to $700. It depends on
what it has with it. Is it in good cosmetic condition? Does it work?
Flawlessly? What software does it come with? The original system disks?
The original manuals? In good condition? Does it still have the original
box? In good condition? And all the packaging material? How about
cables?
The last consideration is, what is the significance of this historically,
and how should that translate into dollars?
I would say a nice, fully functional original Mac with all the original
manuals, software and components, is worth around $250-$300. They are
not all that rare, but are becoming harder to find, especially in working
condition. As I start to put together more and more displays of working
old computers for various functions, I am really starting to appreciate
the rarity of a nice system in fully functioning condition, and the effort
involved in bringing together all the parts to make a complete, working
display. It takes a lot of time, especially if something is dodgy, like
the disk drive.
Add the original box and packaging and the price would definitely go to
$500 to a buyer who was interested in a very nice example for their
collection to preserve and cherish.
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
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11:55 a.m.
New subject: HPGL on Mac
Supposing I have a HP LaserJet II (non-P) that doesn't have
Postscript but does have HPGL. Can someone tell me where
to get software to allow WYSIWYG printing off of
(appropriately old) MacOS? This printer also supports RS232.
John A.
7649
days inactive
7650
days old
48 comments
17 participants
participants (17)
-
allain＠panix.com -
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
aw288＠osfn.org -
bpope＠wordstock.com -
bshannon＠tiac.net -
cb＠mythtech.net -
geneb＠deltasoft.com -
jpl15＠panix.com -
jwest＠classiccmp.org -
jwstephens＠msm.umr.edu -
pcw＠mesanet.com -
rigdonj＠cfl.rr.com -
teoz＠neo.rr.com -
tlindner＠ix.netcom.com -
vance＠neurotica.com -
vcf＠siconic.com -
waltje＠pdp11.nl