6 Jul
2001
6 Jul
'01
4:19 a.m.
Joe,
You seem to be wrong on both counts (don't take personal offense to that...).
Check this out: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,28855,00.html
You don't actually believe that you would be informed that your state
government was going to be watching did you?
I didn't know that my state government (Texas) was watching license plates
at the borders. I make trips to Louisiana quite frequently to visit family.
Gives me the shivers.....
- Matt
"One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad
"Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler
Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er...
I'm
thinking of those cameras attached to computers which are
being used in Florida to identify and track people, based on their
facial features, walking on the streets and sidewalks, in an attempt
to "catch criminals."
WHAT??? where did you hear that? I live in Florida and I've never
heard it.
You'd guess wrong too! We have very few cameras here. The ones
that we have are mainly located in banks, ATMs, convience stores and the
like. We have very few cameras in public areas.
Joe 
6 Jul
6 Jul
6:18 a.m.
At 11:19 AM 7/6/01 -0500, you wrote:
Joe,
You seem to be wrong on both counts (don't take personal offense to that...).
Check this out: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,28855,00.html
Interesting. That seems to be the same system that's supposed to be in
use in London. BTW the description in the news-bite is NOT the same as
that described in the original message. Tampa is using it to look for
wanted criminals and not racial profiling. I for one don't have a problem
with that but it would be easy (prehaps too easy) for the system to be
abused or be modified to be invasive to law abiding citizens.
While we're on this topic, I'm a lot more concerned about the
commercail systems that tack people and their social and buying habits than
I am with the government systems. A good example of one of the commercail
systems is the soon to be implemented plan to install GPS systems in ALL
cell phones. Weather you're aware of it or not, the cell phones are on and
transmitting anytime that they're turned on. This means that your cell
phone company will soon be able to track to within inches you anytime you
have your cell phone turned on. A good example of what that means that
they will know exactly where you shop and what sections of the store that
you visit, even to the extent of what types of books you read basedon your
location in book stores. That will be a gold mine of information to
advertisers, tele-marketers and other low-lifes. In addition they will
know where you work (and therefore a good idea of your income), the routes
that you take to work, where you spend your vacations, where you eat, etc.
It would be like having a private eye tailing yuou everywhere you went.
You don't actually believe that you would be
informed that your state
government was going to be watching did you?
Actually yes. Most of them are proud of their toys and they like to
brag and show them off. It's also very informative to listen to some of the
public hearings such as the police budget requests. That's how we found
out that our Orange County sheriff wated a tank in case of riots at an
international soccer match that was held here a few years ago.
I didn't know that my state government (Texas) was
watching license plates
at the borders. I make trips to Louisiana quite frequently to visit
family. Gives me the shivers.....
That doesn't surprise me. They've been doing that at borders for years.
Joe
- Matt
"One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad
"Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler
Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er...
I'm
thinking of those cameras attached to computers which are
being used in Florida to identify and track people, based on their
facial features, walking on the streets and sidewalks, in an attempt
to "catch criminals."
WHAT??? where did you hear that? I live in Florida and I've never
heard it.
You'd guess wrong too! We have very few cameras here. The ones
that we have are mainly located in banks, ATMs, convience stores and the
like. We have very few cameras in public areas.
Joe 
7:49 a.m.
On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, Matthew Sell wrote:
Check this out:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,28855,00.html
[...]
I didn't know that my state government (Texas) was
watching license plates
at the borders. I make trips to Louisiana quite frequently to visit family.
Gives me the shivers.....
Funny how this never came out during the presidential debates when
Algore and Dubya were debating. Two opponents, one true purpose.
Somehow, I think they were both on the same side, just playing one of
the most popular games played by our politicians: divide and conquer.
"One World, One Web, One Program" -
Microsoft Promotional Ad
"Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler
Hmmm... they say that he was never found after the war. Does anyone
know when "Bill Gates" was last operated on for plastic surgery?
--
Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals:
All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature &
rdd(a)rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such
http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty.
8:27 a.m.
I'd be worrying more about the guy in the White House than the guy in Redmond.
Only the right wingers would tolerate such an imbecile in the oval office. Not
even Schickelgruber, however manipulable he may have been, was that stupid. Now
the Texan Potentate and his sidekick want us all to accept that drilling NWAR
for more oil, the first of which we'll see in about a decade and a half, will
solve this week's energy crisis.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "R. D. Davis" <rdd(a)smart.net>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 1:49 PM
Subject: Re: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor)
On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, Matthew Sell wrote:
such
Check this out:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,28855,00.html
[...]
I didn't know that my state government
(Texas) was watching license plates
at the borders. I make trips to Louisiana quite frequently to visit family.
Gives me the shivers.....
Funny how this never came out during the presidential debates when
Algore and Dubya were debating. Two opponents, one true purpose.
Somehow, I think they were both on the same side, just playing one of
the most popular games played by our politicians: divide and conquer.
"One World, One Web, One Program" -
Microsoft Promotional Ad
"Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler
Hmmm... they say that he was never found after the war. Does anyone
know when "Bill Gates" was last operated on for plastic surgery?
--
Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals:
All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature &
rdd(a)rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify
much human cruelty.
12:31 p.m.
At 02:27 PM 7/6/01 -0600, you wrote:
I'd be worrying more about the guy in the White
House than the guy in Redmond.
Only the right wingers would tolerate such an imbecile in the oval
office. Not
even Schickelgruber, however manipulable he may have been, was that
stupid. Now
the Texan Potentate and his sidekick want us all to accept that drilling NWAR
for more oil, the first of which we'll see in about a decade and a half, will
solve this week's energy crisis.
Is that the same energy crisis that the oil industry keeps saying is
being caused by a lack of refinery capacity? (Of course it is for the ones
of you that have been living in hole somewhere.) I'd like to know how
drilling in ANWAR or the Gulf of Mexico is supposed to increase refinery
capacity!
Joe
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "R. D. Davis" <rdd(a)smart.net>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 1:49 PM
Subject: Re: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor)
animals:
On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, Matthew Sell wrote:
plates
Check this out:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,28855,00.html
[...]
> I didn't know that my state government (Texas) was watching license > at the borders. I make trips to Louisiana
quite frequently to visit
family.
Gives me
the shivers.....
Funny how this never came out during the presidential debates when
Algore and Dubya were debating. Two opponents, one true purpose.
Somehow, I think they were both on the same side, just playing one of
the most popular games played by our politicians: divide and conquer.
"One World, One Web, One Program" -
Microsoft Promotional Ad
"Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler
Hmmm... they say that he was never found after the war. Does anyone
know when "Bill Gates" was last operated on for plastic surgery?
--
Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other All Rights Reserved an unnatural
belief that we're above
Nature &
rdd(a)rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other
creatures, using dogma to justify
such
> http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty.
>
> 
8 Jul
8 Jul
7 a.m.
New subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor)
Joe,
I originally meant to send this a few days ago. I wrote it off-line and
it has been sitting in my out-box, but here goes :-)
I don't think "crisis" is quite accurate. The oil industry has had
several refineries burn, and who knows, maybe some of them are old or
undersize. They may need to build more. or rebuild burned ones. The
electricity problems comes from growing and growing use, without
appropriate updates on the power system.
Drilling in new locations isn't supposed to increase refinery capacity.
It is part of a longer range solution. Drilling in new locations is
something a lot of countries are doing. Drilling in the North Sea is
being done now, or maybe deeper water than normal..... I don't recall.
I have seen a show on Discovery or TLC about the building of the
platform. It was a huge engineering feat the way they built it.
Personally, I'd like to see a move away from oil, not totally, but maybe
a diversification. I'd like to see cars powered by grain alcohol,
although I admit, I don't really know any specifics. Something might
have to be done about people drinking the contents of ones gas tank :-)
Chad Fernandez
Michigan, USA
joe wrote:
Is that the same energy crisis that the oil
industry keeps saying is
being caused by a lack of refinery capacity? (Of course it is for the ones
of you that have been living in hole somewhere.) I'd like to know how
drilling in ANWAR or the Gulf of Mexico is supposed to increase refinery
capacity!
Joe
9:18 a.m.
New subject: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor)
The energy problem is the result of too much government meddling in the market,
through overt and covert subsidy of one industry or another. I could tolerate
$10 per gallon gasoline if I didn't have to pay to make gas cheaper for others,
and then pay out over half my income in taxes of one sort or another.
If the GOV wouldn't let public land be used at ridiculously low cost to the
oil/coal/lumber...(whatever)... industries, and wouldn't subsidize those
industries through depletion allowances and things of that ilk, then we'd pay
more for gasoline and possibly other forms of energy as we consume it, thereby
making excessive consumption less transparent to us.
We'd ultimately pay the same, though, but we'd be more aware of its cost, which
might have effect on our behavior. We'd just pay with dollars with somewhat
less taken out in the form of taxes earmarked for those subsidies.
Likewise, if they'd stop taxing income (production) and tax consumption instead,
we'd pay more for our butter, but it would be with untaxed dollars. Of course
the GOV wouldn't get its rake off the top.
Also, you can bet Detroit would build more efficient cars if folks had to pay
$10 for a gallon of gas, even if it were with tax-free dollars.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chad Fernandez" <fernande(a)internet1.net>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 1:00 PM
Subject: Re: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor)
Joe,
I originally meant to send this a few days ago. I wrote it off-line and
it has been sitting in my out-box, but here goes :-)
I don't think "crisis" is quite accurate. The oil industry has had
several refineries burn, and who knows, maybe some of them are old or
undersize. They may need to build more. or rebuild burned ones. The
electricity problems comes from growing and growing use, without
appropriate updates on the power system.
Drilling in new locations isn't supposed to increase refinery capacity.
It is part of a longer range solution. Drilling in new locations is
something a lot of countries are doing. Drilling in the North Sea is
being done now, or maybe deeper water than normal..... I don't recall.
I have seen a show on Discovery or TLC about the building of the
platform. It was a huge engineering feat the way they built it.
Personally, I'd like to see a move away from oil, not totally, but maybe
a diversification. I'd like to see cars powered by grain alcohol,
although I admit, I don't really know any specifics. Something might
have to be done about people drinking the contents of ones gas tank :-)
Chad Fernandez
Michigan, USA
joe wrote:
Is that the same energy crisis that the oil
industry keeps saying is
being caused by a lack of refinery capacity? (Of course it is for the ones
of you that have been living in hole somewhere.) I'd like to know how
drilling in ANWAR or the Gulf of Mexico is supposed to increase refinery
capacity!
Joe
9 Jul
9 Jul
1:25 a.m.
New subject: OT oil shortage was: Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor)
Sorry for continuing this thread but I couldn't let this one pass!
At 03:00 PM 7/8/01 -0400, Chad wrote:
Joe,
I originally meant to send this a few days ago. I wrote it off-line and
it has been sitting in my out-box, but here goes :-)
I don't think "crisis" is quite accurate. The oil industry has had
several refineries burn, and who knows, maybe some of them are old or
undersize.
I think you need to do your home work. The oil companies have been
shutting down refineries. They've shutdown almost 30% of the refineries in
this country in the last ten years.
They may need to build more. or rebuild burned ones.
The
electricity problems comes from growing and growing use, without
appropriate updates on the power system.
That's very true but the problems with the electrical power industry
are due to a shortage of generating stations (particularly in California)
and has NOTHING to do with oil refinery capacity or any supposed oil shortage.
Drilling in new locations isn't supposed to
increase refinery capacity.
It is part of a longer range solution.
Horseshit! They're closing down wells everyday and have been for
years! Take a drive through Lousianna sometime! I was in Alaska a couple
of years ago and toured nearly the full length of the Alaskan pipeline.
Even it's only running at about 40% of it's capacity. The only reason that
they want to drill in ANWAR and GOM is because the oil companies want a
CHEAPER source of oil so they can increase their already record profits!
That's the same reason that the US continues to import oil from the middle
east. Even with their price increases it's still cheaper to buy their oil
than it is to produce our own.
If the government is serious about a "long range solutions" then they
should mandate that ALL cars achive 30mpg by say 2006, then raise it to
35mpg by 2011, then 40 mpg by 2016, etc until we achive the best practicle
mileage. 50 mpg is very possible, a number of standard production cars
have already achived it. That's only one step, there are hundreds if not
thousands of other practicle solutions. Another solution would be to
mandate solar hot water heaters in all homes. I have one in my home and
it's been my only source of hot water for over 15 years and I've never run
out of hot water.
Drilling in new locations is
something a lot of countries are doing.
Sure, because they all want to be independent of foreign sources and
because it's a huge source of revenue.
Drilling in the North Sea is
being done now, or maybe deeper water than normal..... I don't recall.
I have seen a show on Discovery or TLC about the building of the
platform. It was a huge engineering feat the way they built it.
Yes, the engineering is impressive but again that has nothing to do with
the "nessesicity" for drilling in ANWAR or GOM.
Personally, I'd like to see a move away from oil,
not totally, but maybe
a diversification. I'd like to see cars powered by grain alcohol,
although I admit, I don't really know any specifics.
I know a good bit about alcohol powered vehicles, I've been
experimenting with them since the late 60s. Alcohol is not nearly as
powerfull, cost effective or as efficient as gasoline. Alcohol also has
major incompatibilities with the components of automotive fuel systems. A
number of companies have tried selling gasoline with alcohol added
but AFIK they're all dropped it due to the cost, performance and other
problems.
Something might
have to be done about people drinking the contents of ones gas tank :-)
That would cure the population problem! Nearly all of the alcohol
sold in this country, including that used in fuel, is either nearly pure
methyl alcohol or has methyl alcohol, formaldahyde or other poisons added
to it to "de-nature" it. "De-natured" is a polite way of saying that
it's
poisonous! The government requires that expressly so that people won't be
able to drink it. Let's burn gasoline in our cars (at least till something
better comes along) and save the grain alcohol for drinking!
Joe
2:41 a.m.
New subject: OT oil shortage
What's more, they (the Oil interests) would really hate it if they were require
to sell all the production from the U.S. to the U.S. and stop exporting.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "joe" <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 7:25 AM
Subject: Re: OT oil shortage was: Celebration (Not intended to be offensive,
possible humor)
Sorry for continuing this thread but I
couldn't let this one pass!
At 03:00 PM 7/8/01 -0400, Chad wrote:
Joe,
I originally meant to send this a few days ago. I wrote it off-line and
it has been sitting in my out-box, but here goes :-)
I don't think "crisis" is quite accurate. The oil industry has had
several refineries burn, and who knows, maybe some of them are old or
undersize.
I think you need to do your home work. The oil companies have been
shutting down refineries. They've shutdown almost 30% of the refineries in
this country in the last ten years.
They may need to build more. or rebuild burned
ones. The
electricity problems comes from growing and growing use, without
appropriate updates on the power system.
That's very true but the problems with the electrical power industry
are due to a shortage of generating stations (particularly in California)
and has NOTHING to do with oil refinery capacity or any supposed oil shortage.
Drilling in new locations isn't supposed to
increase refinery capacity.
It is part of a longer range solution.
Horseshit! They're closing down wells everyday and have been for
years! Take a drive through Lousianna sometime! I was in Alaska a couple
of years ago and toured nearly the full length of the Alaskan pipeline.
Even it's only running at about 40% of it's capacity. The only reason that
they want to drill in ANWAR and GOM is because the oil companies want a
CHEAPER source of oil so they can increase their already record profits!
That's the same reason that the US continues to import oil from the middle
east. Even with their price increases it's still cheaper to buy their oil
than it is to produce our own.
If the government is serious about a "long range solutions" then they
should mandate that ALL cars achive 30mpg by say 2006, then raise it to
35mpg by 2011, then 40 mpg by 2016, etc until we achive the best practicle
mileage. 50 mpg is very possible, a number of standard production cars
have already achived it. That's only one step, there are hundreds if not
thousands of other practicle solutions. Another solution would be to
mandate solar hot water heaters in all homes. I have one in my home and
it's been my only source of hot water for over 15 years and I've never run
out of hot water.
Drilling in new locations is
something a lot of countries are doing.
Sure, because they all want to be independent of foreign sources and
because it's a huge source of revenue.
Drilling in the North Sea is
being done now, or maybe deeper water than normal..... I don't recall.
I have seen a show on Discovery or TLC about the building of the
platform. It was a huge engineering feat the way they built it.
Yes, the engineering is impressive but again that has nothing to do with
the "nessesicity" for drilling in ANWAR or GOM.
Personally, I'd like to see a move away from
oil, not totally, but maybe
a diversification. I'd like to see cars powered by grain alcohol,
although I admit, I don't really know any specifics.
I know a good bit about alcohol powered vehicles, I've been
experimenting with them since the late 60s. Alcohol is not nearly as
powerfull, cost effective or as efficient as gasoline. Alcohol also has
major incompatibilities with the components of automotive fuel systems. A
number of companies have tried selling gasoline with alcohol added
but AFIK they're all dropped it due to the cost, performance and other
problems.
Something might
have to be done about people drinking the contents of ones gas tank :-)
That would cure the population problem! Nearly all of the alcohol
sold in this country, including that used in fuel, is either nearly pure
methyl alcohol or has methyl alcohol, formaldahyde or other poisons added
to it to "de-nature" it. "De-natured" is a polite way of saying that
it's
poisonous! The government requires that expressly so that people won't be
able to drink it. Let's burn gasoline in our cars (at least till something
better comes along) and save the grain alcohol for drinking!
Joe
3:32 a.m.
New subject: OT oil shortage
At 08:41 AM 7/9/01 -0600, Richard wrote:
What's more, they (the Oil interests) would really
hate it if they were
require
to sell all the production from the U.S. to the U.S. and stop exporting.
Dammed Right! I used to live in Roanoke, Virginia during the so
called "energy shortage" in the mid-70s. Roanoke was the headquarters of
the N&W Railroad and is located on their main line between W.Virginia and
the seaports on the east coast of Virginia. EVERYDAY I used to see a
multitude of trains loaded with nothing but coal from W.V. headed to the
seaports to be loaded and hauled to Japan and other countries. This was at
the same time that we couldn't heat our houses or drive our cars due to a
"lack" of coal and oil! Wake up, folks! These "shortages" are
nothing
more than the manipulations of the oil industries and other large companies
and are designed to do nothing except increase their profits. Go look up
the statistics for the amount of oil imported during the so called arab oil
embargo of the 70s. It was virtually the same as before the "embargo" but
yet the comsumers were hood-winked into believing that there was a major
shortage and tricked into paying more than double the price for all fuels.
Even the ones that originated in the US. Go look at the amount of oil, gas
or electric power consumed in this country. Has it declined at all in the
last 30 years? No, of course not. The oil and power companies don't want
it to decline, they have to keep up their profits.
Stop and think about what's going on in this country. The major
companies are screwing the American public on a daily basis and many of the
politicians (particularly the Republicans) are playing right along. The
companies invent these crisis and then use them as a pretext to not only
rob us blind but also to circumvent numerious laws including conspiracy,
anti-trust and enviromental laws. If you have doubts about the willingness
of the politicians to play along with the enrgy companies, go look up the
donor's names and amounts of the contributions to guys like GWB. All of
that data is public record. While you're at it look up his investments in
the oil and other energy related companies. With conficts of interest
like his, we will never develope an alternative to oil and gasoline and we
will never resolve the "energy crisis".
Ok, I'll get off my soap box now.
Joe
10 Jul
10 Jul
3:12 p.m.
New subject: OT oil shortage
joe wrote:
At 08:41 AM 7/9/01 -0600, Richard wrote:
Well said Joe!
Buit is even deeper than that (i.e. Big Oil and politicians). At one time
the oil industry was under investigation for price fixing and the like. There
was even anti trust legislation and I'm not talking about Rockefeller and
Standard Oil. It started in the 40s was shelved during the war (WW2).
It resurfaced in the 50s. When things came to a head, the Supreme Court
ruled that oil is a national security mineral (vital). Not only did the
investigation go away, but the oil industry was given a lead role in
American foriegn policy. They got access to the CIA and the like!
The interaction between Big Oil and the intelligence community is
quite notorious. Its amazing to watch people like Dick Cheney
flow between them. And now as VP his secrets are supposed to
be part of the public record. He still has not provided the GAO
with the list of members of is enegry task force.
Should an industry get access to the vitals of US foreign policy?
Eric
What's more, they (the Oil interests) would
really hate it if they were
require
to sell all the production from the U.S. to the U.S. and stop exporting.
Dammed Right! I used to live in Roanoke, Virginia during the so
called "energy shortage" in the mid-70s. Roanoke was the headquarters of
the N&W Railroad and is located on their main line between W.Virginia and
the seaports on the east coast of Virginia. EVERYDAY I used to see a
multitude of trains loaded with nothing but coal from W.V. headed to the
seaports to be loaded and hauled to Japan and other countries. This was at
the same time that we couldn't heat our houses or drive our cars due to a
"lack" of coal and oil! Wake up, folks! These "shortages" are
nothing
more than the manipulations of the oil industries and other large companies
and are designed to do nothing except increase their profits. Go look up
the statistics for the amount of oil imported during the so called arab oil
embargo of the 70s. It was virtually the same as before the "embargo" but
yet the comsumers were hood-winked into believing that there was a major
shortage and tricked into paying more than double the price for all fuels.
Even the ones that originated in the US. Go look at the amount of oil, gas
or electric power consumed in this country. Has it declined at all in the
last 30 years? No, of course not. The oil and power companies don't want
it to decline, they have to keep up their profits.
Stop and think about what's going on in this country. The major
companies are screwing the American public on a daily basis and many of the
politicians (particularly the Republicans) are playing right along. The
companies invent these crisis and then use them as a pretext to not only
rob us blind but also to circumvent numerious laws including conspiracy,
anti-trust and enviromental laws. If you have doubts about the willingness
of the politicians to play along with the enrgy companies, go look up the
donor's names and amounts of the contributions to guys like GWB. All of
that data is public record. While you're at it look up his investments in
the oil and other energy related companies. With conficts of interest
like his, we will never develope an alternative to oil and gasoline and we
will never resolve the "energy crisis".
Ok, I'll get off my soap box now.
Joe
2:39 p.m.
New subject: OT oil shortage
Richard Erlacher wrote:
What's more, they (the Oil interests) would really
hate it if they were require
to sell all the production from the U.S. to the U.S. and stop exporting.
You imply that Big Oil is purely American. Their domain is the whole planet.
Eric
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "joe" <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 7:25 AM
Subject: Re: OT oil shortage was: Celebration (Not intended to be offensive,
possible humor)
> Sorry for continuing this thread but I couldn't let this one pass!
>
> At 03:00 PM 7/8/01 -0400, Chad wrote:
>
> >Joe,
> >
> >I originally meant to send this a few days ago. I wrote it off-line and
> >it has been sitting in my out-box, but here goes :-)
> >
> >I don't think "crisis" is quite accurate. The oil industry has
had
> >several refineries burn, and who knows, maybe some of them are old or
> >undersize.
>
> I think you need to do your home work. The oil companies have been
> shutting down refineries. They've shutdown almost 30% of the refineries in
> this country in the last ten years.
>
>
> > They may need to build more. or rebuild burned ones. The
> >electricity problems comes from growing and growing use, without
> >appropriate updates on the power system.
>
> That's very true but the problems with the electrical power industry
> are due to a shortage of generating stations (particularly in California)
> and has NOTHING to do with oil refinery capacity or any supposed oil shortage.
>
>
> >Drilling in new locations isn't supposed to increase refinery capacity.
> >It is part of a longer range solution.
>
> Horseshit! They're closing down wells everyday and have been for
> years! Take a drive through Lousianna sometime! I was in Alaska a couple
> of years ago and toured nearly the full length of the Alaskan pipeline.
> Even it's only running at about 40% of it's capacity. The only reason that
> they want to drill in ANWAR and GOM is because the oil companies want a
> CHEAPER source of oil so they can increase their already record profits!
> That's the same reason that the US continues to import oil from the middle
> east. Even with their price increases it's still cheaper to buy their oil
> than it is to produce our own.
>
> If the government is serious about a "long range solutions" then they
> should mandate that ALL cars achive 30mpg by say 2006, then raise it to
> 35mpg by 2011, then 40 mpg by 2016, etc until we achive the best practicle
> mileage. 50 mpg is very possible, a number of standard production cars
> have already achived it. That's only one step, there are hundreds if not
> thousands of other practicle solutions. Another solution would be to
> mandate solar hot water heaters in all homes. I have one in my home and
> it's been my only source of hot water for over 15 years and I've never run
> out of hot water.
>
>
> > Drilling in new locations is
> >something a lot of countries are doing.
>
> Sure, because they all want to be independent of foreign sources and
> because it's a huge source of revenue.
>
>
> > Drilling in the North Sea is
> >being done now, or maybe deeper water than normal..... I don't recall.
> >I have seen a show on Discovery or TLC about the building of the
> >platform. It was a huge engineering feat the way they built it.
>
> Yes, the engineering is impressive but again that has nothing to do with
> the "nessesicity" for drilling in ANWAR or GOM.
>
>
> >Personally, I'd like to see a move away from oil, not totally, but maybe
> >a diversification. I'd like to see cars powered by grain alcohol,
> >although I admit, I don't really know any specifics.
>
> I know a good bit about alcohol powered vehicles, I've been
> experimenting with them since the late 60s. Alcohol is not nearly as
> powerfull, cost effective or as efficient as gasoline. Alcohol also has
> major incompatibilities with the components of automotive fuel systems. A
> number of companies have tried selling gasoline with alcohol added
> but AFIK they're all dropped it due to the cost, performance and other
> problems.
>
>
> > Something might
> >have to be done about people drinking the contents of ones gas tank :-)
>
>
> That would cure the population problem! Nearly all of the alcohol
> sold in this country, including that used in fuel, is either nearly pure
> methyl alcohol or has methyl alcohol, formaldahyde or other poisons added
> to it to "de-nature" it. "De-natured" is a polite way of saying
that it's
> poisonous! The government requires that expressly so that people won't be
> able to drink it. Let's burn gasoline in our cars (at least till something
> better comes along) and save the grain alcohol for drinking!
>
> Joe
>
>
11 Jul
11 Jul
12:28 a.m.
New subject: OT oil shortage
Isn't Royal Dutch Shell Group still larger than ExxonMobil?
Peace... Sridhar
On Tue, 10 Jul 2001, Eric Chomko wrote:
Richard Erlacher wrote:
What's more, they (the Oil interests) would
really hate it if they were require
to sell all the production from the U.S. to the U.S. and stop exporting.
You imply that Big Oil is purely American. Their domain is the whole planet.
Eric
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "joe" <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 7:25 AM
Subject: Re: OT oil shortage was: Celebration (Not intended to be offensive,
possible humor)
> Sorry for continuing this thread but I couldn't let this one pass!
>
> At 03:00 PM 7/8/01 -0400, Chad wrote:
>
> >Joe,
> >
> >I originally meant to send this a few days ago. I wrote it off-line and
> >it has been sitting in my out-box, but here goes :-)
> >
> >I don't think "crisis" is quite accurate. The oil industry has
had
> >several refineries burn, and who knows, maybe some of them are old or
> >undersize.
>
> I think you need to do your home work. The oil companies have been
> shutting down refineries. They've shutdown almost 30% of the refineries in
> this country in the last ten years.
>
>
> > They may need to build more. or rebuild burned ones. The
> >electricity problems comes from growing and growing use, without
> >appropriate updates on the power system.
>
> That's very true but the problems with the electrical power industry
> are due to a shortage of generating stations (particularly in California)
> and has NOTHING to do with oil refinery capacity or any supposed oil shortage.
>
>
> >Drilling in new locations isn't supposed to increase refinery capacity.
> >It is part of a longer range solution.
>
> Horseshit! They're closing down wells everyday and have been for
> years! Take a drive through Lousianna sometime! I was in Alaska a couple
> of years ago and toured nearly the full length of the Alaskan pipeline.
> Even it's only running at about 40% of it's capacity. The only reason that
> they want to drill in ANWAR and GOM is because the oil companies want a
> CHEAPER source of oil so they can increase their already record profits!
> That's the same reason that the US continues to import oil from the middle
> east. Even with their price increases it's still cheaper to buy their oil
> than it is to produce our own.
>
> If the government is serious about a "long range solutions" then they
> should mandate that ALL cars achive 30mpg by say 2006, then raise it to
> 35mpg by 2011, then 40 mpg by 2016, etc until we achive the best practicle
> mileage. 50 mpg is very possible, a number of standard production cars
> have already achived it. That's only one step, there are hundreds if not
> thousands of other practicle solutions. Another solution would be to
> mandate solar hot water heaters in all homes. I have one in my home and
> it's been my only source of hot water for over 15 years and I've never run
> out of hot water.
>
>
> > Drilling in new locations is
> >something a lot of countries are doing.
>
> Sure, because they all want to be independent of foreign sources and
> because it's a huge source of revenue.
>
>
> > Drilling in the North Sea is
> >being done now, or maybe deeper water than normal..... I don't recall.
> >I have seen a show on Discovery or TLC about the building of the
> >platform. It was a huge engineering feat the way they built it.
>
> Yes, the engineering is impressive but again that has nothing to do with
> the "nessesicity" for drilling in ANWAR or GOM.
>
>
> >Personally, I'd like to see a move away from oil, not totally, but maybe
> >a diversification. I'd like to see cars powered by grain alcohol,
> >although I admit, I don't really know any specifics.
>
> I know a good bit about alcohol powered vehicles, I've been
> experimenting with them since the late 60s. Alcohol is not nearly as
> powerfull, cost effective or as efficient as gasoline. Alcohol also has
> major incompatibilities with the components of automotive fuel systems. A
> number of companies have tried selling gasoline with alcohol added
> but AFIK they're all dropped it due to the cost, performance and other
> problems.
>
>
> > Something might
> >have to be done about people drinking the contents of ones gas tank :-)
>
>
> That would cure the population problem! Nearly all of the alcohol
> sold in this country, including that used in fuel, is either nearly pure
> methyl alcohol or has methyl alcohol, formaldahyde or other poisons added
> to it to "de-nature" it. "De-natured" is a polite way of saying
that it's
> poisonous! The government requires that expressly so that people won't be
> able to drink it. Let's burn gasoline in our cars (at least till something
> better comes along) and save the grain alcohol for drinking!
>
> Joe
>
>
2:09 a.m.
New subject: OT oil shortage
Master of all that Sucks wrote:
Isn't Royal Dutch Shell Group still larger than
ExxonMobil?
Perhaps, but it would seem that the entire oil industry acts as a single
monolithic beast committed to its own survival.
Capitalistic, Communistic, Sociallistic or any other 'istic' it still functions
the same way. MONEY and POWER.
Forget idealistic differences and political opposing viewpoints, that marriage
is committed to the same sole purpose.
The sun never sets on the Oil Cartel.
Eric
Peace... Sridhar
On Tue, 10 Jul 2001, Eric Chomko wrote:
>
>
> Richard Erlacher wrote:
>
> > What's more, they (the Oil interests) would really hate it if they were
require
> > to sell all the production from the U.S. to the U.S. and stop exporting.
> >
>
> You imply that Big Oil is purely American. Their domain is the whole planet.
>
> Eric
>
> >
> > Dick
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "joe" <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net>
> > To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
> > Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 7:25 AM
> > Subject: Re: OT oil shortage was: Celebration (Not intended to be offensive,
> > possible humor)
> >
> > > Sorry for continuing this thread but I couldn't let this one
pass!
> > >
> > > At 03:00 PM 7/8/01 -0400, Chad wrote:
> > >
> > > >Joe,
> > > >
> > > >I originally meant to send this a few days ago. I wrote it off-line
and
> > > >it has been sitting in my out-box, but here goes :-)
> > > >
> > > >I don't think "crisis" is quite accurate. The oil
industry has had
> > > >several refineries burn, and who knows, maybe some of them are old or
> > > >undersize.
> > >
> > > I think you need to do your home work. The oil companies have been
> > > shutting down refineries. They've shutdown almost 30% of the
refineries in
> > > this country in the last ten years.
> > >
> > >
> > > > They may need to build more. or rebuild burned ones. The
> > > >electricity problems comes from growing and growing use, without
> > > >appropriate updates on the power system.
> > >
> > > That's very true but the problems with the electrical power
industry
> > > are due to a shortage of generating stations (particularly in California)
> > > and has NOTHING to do with oil refinery capacity or any supposed oil
shortage.
> > >
> > >
> > > >Drilling in new locations isn't supposed to increase refinery
capacity.
> > > >It is part of a longer range solution.
> > >
> > > Horseshit! They're closing down wells everyday and have been
for
> > > years! Take a drive through Lousianna sometime! I was in Alaska a couple
> > > of years ago and toured nearly the full length of the Alaskan pipeline.
> > > Even it's only running at about 40% of it's capacity. The only
reason that
> > > they want to drill in ANWAR and GOM is because the oil companies want a
> > > CHEAPER source of oil so they can increase their already record profits!
> > > That's the same reason that the US continues to import oil from the
middle
> > > east. Even with their price increases it's still cheaper to buy their
oil
> > > than it is to produce our own.
> > >
> > > If the government is serious about a "long range solutions"
then they
> > > should mandate that ALL cars achive 30mpg by say 2006, then raise it to
> > > 35mpg by 2011, then 40 mpg by 2016, etc until we achive the best
practicle
> > > mileage. 50 mpg is very possible, a number of standard production cars
> > > have already achived it. That's only one step, there are hundreds if
not
> > > thousands of other practicle solutions. Another solution would be to
> > > mandate solar hot water heaters in all homes. I have one in my home and
> > > it's been my only source of hot water for over 15 years and I've
never run
> > > out of hot water.
> > >
> > >
> > > > Drilling in new locations is
> > > >something a lot of countries are doing.
> > >
> > > Sure, because they all want to be independent of foreign sources and
> > > because it's a huge source of revenue.
> > >
> > >
> > > > Drilling in the North Sea is
> > > >being done now, or maybe deeper water than normal..... I don't
recall.
> > > >I have seen a show on Discovery or TLC about the building of the
> > > >platform. It was a huge engineering feat the way they built it.
> > >
> > > Yes, the engineering is impressive but again that has nothing to do
with
> > > the "nessesicity" for drilling in ANWAR or GOM.
> > >
> > >
> > > >Personally, I'd like to see a move away from oil, not totally, but
maybe
> > > >a diversification. I'd like to see cars powered by grain
alcohol,
> > > >although I admit, I don't really know any specifics.
> > >
> > > I know a good bit about alcohol powered vehicles, I've been
> > > experimenting with them since the late 60s. Alcohol is not nearly as
> > > powerfull, cost effective or as efficient as gasoline. Alcohol also has
> > > major incompatibilities with the components of automotive fuel systems.
A
> > > number of companies have tried selling gasoline with alcohol added
> > > but AFIK they're all dropped it due to the cost, performance and
other
> > > problems.
> > >
> > >
> > > > Something might
> > > >have to be done about people drinking the contents of ones gas tank
:-)
> > >
> > >
> > > That would cure the population problem! Nearly all of the alcohol
> > > sold in this country, including that used in fuel, is either nearly pure
> > > methyl alcohol or has methyl alcohol, formaldahyde or other poisons added
> > > to it to "de-nature" it. "De-natured" is a polite way
of saying that it's
> > > poisonous! The government requires that expressly so that people
won't be
> > > able to drink it. Let's burn gasoline in our cars (at least till
something
> > > better comes along) and save the grain alcohol for drinking!
> > >
> > > Joe
> > >
> > >
>
>
>
12 Jul
12 Jul
1:53 a.m.
New subject: OT oil shortage
Master of all that Sucks skrev:
Isn't Royal Dutch Shell Group still larger than
ExxonMobil?
Peace... Sridhar
Congratulations, Sridhar and Chomko! Like the true IT professionals you are,
you have managed to splice a one-liner on top of 250 lines of unedited, quoted
material!
Wow, that's competent.
--
En ligne avec Thor 2.6a.
13 Jul
13 Jul
3:04 p.m.
New subject: OT oil shortage
Oops sorry. I guess I got caught up with the politics of it all.
Thanks for pointing it out. I see you added to the post with
nothing except less of it. :)(:
Eric
Iggy Drougge wrote:
Master of all that Sucks skrev:
Isn't Royal Dutch Shell Group still larger
than ExxonMobil?
Peace... Sridhar
Congratulations, Sridhar and Chomko! Like the true IT professionals you are,
you have managed to splice a one-liner on top of 250 lines of unedited, quoted
material!
Wow, that's competent.
--
En ligne avec Thor 2.6a.
11 Jul
11 Jul
1:25 a.m.
New subject: OT oil shortage
This matter involves only the US producers, though.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric Chomko" <chomko(a)greenbelt.com>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2001 8:39 PM
Subject: Re: OT oil shortage
in
Richard Erlacher wrote:
> What's more, they (the Oil interests) would really hate it if they were
require
to sell all
the production from the U.S. to the U.S. and stop exporting.
You imply that Big Oil is purely American. Their domain is the whole planet.
Eric
>
> Dick
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "joe" <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net>
> To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
> Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 7:25 AM
> Subject: Re: OT oil shortage was: Celebration (Not intended to be offensive,
> possible humor)
>
> > Sorry for continuing this thread but I couldn't let this one pass!
> >
> > At 03:00 PM 7/8/01 -0400, Chad wrote:
> >
> > >Joe,
> > >
> > >I originally meant to send this a few days ago. I wrote it off-line and
> > >it has been sitting in my out-box, but here goes :-)
> > >
> > >I don't think "crisis" is quite accurate. The oil industry
has had
> > >several refineries burn, and who knows, maybe some of them are old or
> > >undersize.
> >
> > I think you need to do your home work. The oil companies have been
> > shutting down refineries. They've shutdown almost 30% of the refineries
> > this country in the last ten years.
> >
> >
> > > They may need to build more. or rebuild burned ones. The
> > >electricity problems comes from growing and growing use, without
> > >appropriate updates on the power system.
> >
> > That's very true but the problems with the electrical power industry
> > are due to a shortage of generating stations (particularly in California)
> > and has NOTHING to do with oil refinery capacity or any supposed oil
shortage.
> >
> >
> > >Drilling in new locations isn't supposed to increase refinery
capacity.
> > >It is part of a longer range solution.
> >
> > Horseshit! They're closing down wells everyday and have been for
> > years! Take a drive through Lousianna sometime! I was in Alaska a couple
> > of years ago and toured nearly the full length of the Alaskan pipeline.
> > Even it's only running at about 40% of it's capacity. The only reason
that
> > they want to drill in ANWAR and GOM is
because the oil companies want a
> > CHEAPER source of oil so they can increase their already record profits!
> > That's the same reason that the US continues to import oil from the middle
> > east. Even with their price increases it's still cheaper to buy their oil
> > than it is to produce our own.
> >
> > If the government is serious about a "long range solutions" then
they
> > should mandate that ALL cars achive 30mpg by say 2006, then raise it to
> > 35mpg by 2011, then 40 mpg by 2016, etc until we achive the best practicle
> > mileage. 50 mpg is very possible, a number of standard production cars
> > have already achived it. That's only one step, there are hundreds if not
> > thousands of other practicle solutions. Another solution would be to
> > mandate solar hot water heaters in all homes. I have one in my home and
> > it's been my only source of hot water for over 15 years and I've never
run
> > out of hot water.
> >
> >
> > > Drilling in new locations is
> > >something a lot of countries are doing.
> >
> > Sure, because they all want to be independent of foreign sources and
> > because it's a huge source of revenue.
> >
> >
> > > Drilling in the North Sea is
> > >being done now, or maybe deeper water than normal..... I don't recall.
> > >I have seen a show on Discovery or TLC about the building of the
> > >platform. It was a huge engineering feat the way they built it.
> >
> > Yes, the engineering is impressive but again that has nothing to do
with
> > the "nessesicity" for drilling in
ANWAR or GOM.
> >
> >
> > >Personally, I'd like to see a move away from oil, not totally, but
maybe
> > >a diversification. I'd like to see cars powered by grain alcohol,
> > >although I admit, I don't really know any specifics.
> >
> > I know a good bit about alcohol powered vehicles, I've been
> > experimenting with them since the late 60s. Alcohol is not nearly as
> > powerfull, cost effective or as efficient as gasoline. Alcohol also has
> > major incompatibilities with the components of automotive fuel systems. A
> > number of companies have tried selling gasoline with alcohol added
> > but AFIK they're all dropped it due to the cost, performance and other
> > problems.
> >
> >
> > > Something might
> > >have to be done about people drinking the contents of ones gas tank :-)
> >
> >
> > That would cure the population problem! Nearly all of the alcohol
> > sold in this country, including that used in fuel, is either nearly pure
> > methyl alcohol or has methyl alcohol, formaldahyde or other poisons added
> > to it to "de-nature" it. "De-natured" is a polite way of
saying that it's
> > poisonous! The government requires that expressly so that people won't
be
> able to
drink it. Let's burn gasoline in our cars (at least till something
> better comes along) and save the grain alcohol for drinking!
>
> Joe
>
>
2:12 a.m.
New subject: OT oil shortage
Richard Erlacher wrote:
This matter involves only the US producers, though.
US producers, as you put it, get their crude all over the world.
The term multi-national corp is redundant when speaking of an oil
company.
Eric
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric Chomko" <chomko(a)greenbelt.com>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2001 8:39 PM
Subject: Re: OT oil shortage
in
Richard Erlacher wrote:
> What's more, they (the Oil interests) would really hate it if they were
require
to sell
all the production from the U.S. to the U.S. and stop exporting.
You imply that Big Oil is purely American. Their domain is the whole planet.
Eric
>
> Dick
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "joe" <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net>
> To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
> Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 7:25 AM
> Subject: Re: OT oil shortage was: Celebration (Not intended to be offensive,
> possible humor)
>
> > Sorry for continuing this thread but I couldn't let this one pass!
> >
> > At 03:00 PM 7/8/01 -0400, Chad wrote:
> >
> > >Joe,
> > >
> > >I originally meant to send this a few days ago. I wrote it off-line and
> > >it has been sitting in my out-box, but here goes :-)
> > >
> > >I don't think "crisis" is quite accurate. The oil industry
has had
> > >several refineries burn, and who knows, maybe some of them are old or
> > >undersize.
> >
> > I think you need to do your home work. The oil companies have been
> > shutting down refineries. They've shutdown almost 30% of the refineries
> > this country in the last ten years.
> >
> >
> > > They may need to build more. or rebuild burned ones. The
> > >electricity problems comes from growing and growing use, without
> > >appropriate updates on the power system.
> >
> > That's very true but the problems with the electrical power industry
> > are due to a shortage of generating stations (particularly in California)
> > and has NOTHING to do with oil refinery capacity or any supposed oil
shortage.
> >
> >
> > >Drilling in new locations isn't supposed to increase refinery
capacity.
> > >It is part of a longer range solution.
> >
> > Horseshit! They're closing down wells everyday and have been for
> > years! Take a drive through Lousianna sometime! I was in Alaska a couple
> > of years ago and toured nearly the full length of the Alaskan pipeline.
> > Even it's only running at about 40% of it's capacity. The only reason
that
> > they want to drill in ANWAR and GOM is
because the oil companies want a
> > CHEAPER source of oil so they can increase their already record profits!
> > That's the same reason that the US continues to import oil from the middle
> > east. Even with their price increases it's still cheaper to buy their oil
> > than it is to produce our own.
> >
> > If the government is serious about a "long range solutions" then
they
> > should mandate that ALL cars achive 30mpg by say 2006, then raise it to
> > 35mpg by 2011, then 40 mpg by 2016, etc until we achive the best practicle
> > mileage. 50 mpg is very possible, a number of standard production cars
> > have already achived it. That's only one step, there are hundreds if not
> > thousands of other practicle solutions. Another solution would be to
> > mandate solar hot water heaters in all homes. I have one in my home and
> > it's been my only source of hot water for over 15 years and I've never
run
> > out of hot water.
> >
> >
> > > Drilling in new locations is
> > >something a lot of countries are doing.
> >
> > Sure, because they all want to be independent of foreign sources and
> > because it's a huge source of revenue.
> >
> >
> > > Drilling in the North Sea is
> > >being done now, or maybe deeper water than normal..... I don't recall.
> > >I have seen a show on Discovery or TLC about the building of the
> > >platform. It was a huge engineering feat the way they built it.
> >
> > Yes, the engineering is impressive but again that has nothing to do
with
> > the "nessesicity" for
drilling in ANWAR or GOM.
> >
> >
> > >Personally, I'd like to see a move away from oil, not totally, but
maybe
> > >a diversification. I'd like to see cars powered by grain alcohol,
> > >although I admit, I don't really know any specifics.
> >
> > I know a good bit about alcohol powered vehicles, I've been
> > experimenting with them since the late 60s. Alcohol is not nearly as
> > powerfull, cost effective or as efficient as gasoline. Alcohol also has
> > major incompatibilities with the components of automotive fuel systems. A
> > number of companies have tried selling gasoline with alcohol added
> > but AFIK they're all dropped it due to the cost, performance and other
> > problems.
> >
> >
> > > Something might
> > >have to be done about people drinking the contents of ones gas tank :-)
> >
> >
> > That would cure the population problem! Nearly all of the alcohol
> > sold in this country, including that used in fuel, is either nearly pure
> > methyl alcohol or has methyl alcohol, formaldahyde or other poisons added
> > to it to "de-nature" it. "De-natured" is a polite way of
saying that it's
> > poisonous! The government requires that expressly so that people won't
be
> > > able to drink it. Let's burn gasoline in our cars (at least till
something
> > > better comes along) and save the grain alcohol for drinking!
> > >
> > > Joe
> > >
> > >
>
>
>
>
3:13 a.m.
New subject: OT oil shortage
At 10:39 PM 7/10/01 -0400, you wrote:
Richard Erlacher wrote:
That's true but you miss the point. The US is still a major exporter
of oil, coal and other fuels. Please tell me why should we be exporting
it if we don't have enough to meet our own needs (if you buy the current
line from the GWB establishment).
Joe
What's more, they (the Oil interests) would
really hate it if they were
require
to sell all the production from the U.S. to the
U.S. and stop exporting.
You imply that Big Oil is purely American. Their domain is the whole planet. Eric
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "joe" <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 7:25 AM
Subject: Re: OT oil shortage was: Celebration (Not intended to be
offensive,
possible humor)
> Sorry for continuing this thread but I couldn't let this one pass!
>
> At 03:00 PM 7/8/01 -0400, Chad wrote:
>
> >Joe,
> >
> >I originally meant to send this a few days ago. I wrote it off-line and
> >it has been sitting in my out-box, but here goes :-)
> >
> >I don't think "crisis" is quite accurate. The oil industry has
had
> >several refineries burn, and who knows, maybe some of them are old or
> >undersize.
>
> I think you need to do your home work. The oil companies have been
> shutting down refineries. They've shutdown almost 30% of the
refineries
in
> this country in the last ten years.
>
>
> > They may need to build more. or rebuild burned ones. The
> >electricity problems comes from growing and growing use, without
> >appropriate updates on the power system.
>
> That's very true but the problems with the electrical power industry
> are due to a shortage of generating stations (particularly in California)
> and has NOTHING to do with oil refinery capacity or any supposed oil
shortage.
>
>
> >Drilling in new locations isn't supposed to increase refinery capacity.
> >It is part of a longer range solution.
>
> Horseshit! They're closing down wells everyday and have been for
> years! Take a drive through Lousianna sometime! I was in Alaska a couple
> of years ago and toured nearly the full length of the Alaskan pipeline.
> Even it's only running at about 40% of it's capacity. The only
reason that
> they want to drill in ANWAR and GOM is
because the oil companies want a
> CHEAPER source of oil so they can increase their already record profits!
> That's the same reason that the US continues to import oil from the
middle
> east. Even with their price increases
it's still cheaper to buy their oil
> than it is to produce our own.
>
> If the government is serious about a "long range solutions" then they
> should mandate that ALL cars achive 30mpg by say 2006, then raise it to
> 35mpg by 2011, then 40 mpg by 2016, etc until we achive the best
practicle
> mileage. 50 mpg is very possible, a number
of standard production cars
> have already achived it. That's only one step, there are hundreds
if
not
> thousands of other practicle solutions.
Another solution would be to
> mandate solar hot water heaters in all homes. I have one in my home and
> it's been my only source of hot water for over 15 years and I've
never run
> out of hot water.
>
>
> > Drilling in new locations is
> >something a lot of countries are doing.
>
> Sure, because they all want to be independent of foreign sources and
> because it's a huge source of revenue.
>
>
> > Drilling in the North Sea is
> >being done now, or maybe deeper water than normal..... I don't recall.
> >I have seen a show on Discovery or TLC about the building of the
> >platform. It was a huge engineering feat the way they built it.
>
> Yes, the engineering is impressive but again that has nothing to
do with
> the "nessesicity" for drilling in
ANWAR or GOM.
>
>
> >Personally, I'd like to see a move away from oil, not totally, but maybe
> >a diversification. I'd like to see cars powered by grain alcohol,
> >although I admit, I don't really know any specifics.
>
> I know a good bit about alcohol powered vehicles, I've been
> experimenting with them since the late 60s. Alcohol is not nearly as
> powerfull, cost effective or as efficient as gasoline. Alcohol also has
> major incompatibilities with the components of automotive fuel
systems. A
> number of companies have tried selling
gasoline with alcohol added
> but AFIK they're all dropped it due to the cost, performance and other
> problems.
>
>
> > Something might
> >have to be done about people drinking the contents of ones gas tank :-)
>
>
> That would cure the population problem! Nearly all of the alcohol
> sold in this country, including that used in fuel, is either nearly pure
> methyl alcohol or has methyl alcohol, formaldahyde or other poisons added
> to it to "de-nature" it. "De-natured" is a polite way of saying
that
it's
> poisonous! The government requires that
expressly so that people
won't be
> able to drink it. Let's burn gasoline in
our cars (at least till
something
> > better comes along) and save the grain alcohol for drinking!
> >
> > Joe
> >
> >
3:37 a.m.
New subject: OT oil shortage
I personally believe that they curtail production intentionally to
increase prices.
Peace... Sridhar
On Wed, 11 Jul 2001, joe wrote:
That's true but you miss the point. The US is still a major exporter
of oil, coal and other fuels. Please tell me why should we be exporting
it if we don't have enough to meet our own needs (if you buy the current
line from the GWB establishment).
Joe
Eric
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "joe" <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 7:25 AM
Subject: Re: OT oil shortage was: Celebration (Not intended to be
offensive,
possible humor)
> Sorry for continuing this thread but I couldn't let this one pass!
>
> At 03:00 PM 7/8/01 -0400, Chad wrote:
>
> >Joe,
> >
> >I originally meant to send this a few days ago. I wrote it off-line and
> >it has been sitting in my out-box, but here goes :-)
> >
> >I don't think "crisis" is quite accurate. The oil industry has
had
> >several refineries burn, and who knows, maybe some of them are old or
> >undersize.
>
> I think you need to do your home work. The oil companies have been
> shutting down refineries. They've shutdown almost 30% of the
refineries
in
> this country in the last ten years.
>
>
> > They may need to build more. or rebuild burned ones. The
> >electricity problems comes from growing and growing use, without
> >appropriate updates on the power system.
>
> That's very true but the problems with the electrical power industry
> are due to a shortage of generating stations (particularly in California)
> and has NOTHING to do with oil refinery capacity or any supposed oil
shortage.
>
>
> >Drilling in new locations isn't supposed to increase refinery capacity.
> >It is part of a longer range solution.
>
> Horseshit! They're closing down wells everyday and have been for
> years! Take a drive through Lousianna sometime! I was in Alaska a couple
> of years ago and toured nearly the full length of the Alaskan pipeline.
> Even it's only running at about 40% of it's capacity. The only
reason that
> they want to drill in ANWAR and GOM is
because the oil companies want a
> CHEAPER source of oil so they can increase their already record profits!
> That's the same reason that the US continues to import oil from the
middle
> east. Even with their price increases
it's still cheaper to buy their oil
> than it is to produce our own.
>
> If the government is serious about a "long range solutions" then they
> should mandate that ALL cars achive 30mpg by say 2006, then raise it to
> 35mpg by 2011, then 40 mpg by 2016, etc until we achive the best
practicle
> mileage. 50 mpg is very possible, a number
of standard production cars
> have already achived it. That's only one step, there are hundreds
if
not
> thousands of other practicle solutions.
Another solution would be to
> mandate solar hot water heaters in all homes. I have one in my home and
> it's been my only source of hot water for over 15 years and I've
never run
> out of hot water.
>
>
> > Drilling in new locations is
> >something a lot of countries are doing.
>
> Sure, because they all want to be independent of foreign sources and
> because it's a huge source of revenue.
>
>
> > Drilling in the North Sea is
> >being done now, or maybe deeper water than normal..... I don't recall.
> >I have seen a show on Discovery or TLC about the building of the
> >platform. It was a huge engineering feat the way they built it.
>
> Yes, the engineering is impressive but again that has nothing to
do with
> the "nessesicity" for drilling in
ANWAR or GOM.
>
>
> >Personally, I'd like to see a move away from oil, not totally, but maybe
> >a diversification. I'd like to see cars powered by grain alcohol,
> >although I admit, I don't really know any specifics.
>
> I know a good bit about alcohol powered vehicles, I've been
> experimenting with them since the late 60s. Alcohol is not nearly as
> powerfull, cost effective or as efficient as gasoline. Alcohol also has
> major incompatibilities with the components of automotive fuel
systems. A
> number of companies have tried selling
gasoline with alcohol added
> but AFIK they're all dropped it due to the cost, performance and other
> problems.
>
>
> > Something might
> >have to be done about people drinking the contents of ones gas tank :-)
>
>
> That would cure the population problem! Nearly all of the alcohol
> sold in this country, including that used in fuel, is either nearly pure
> methyl alcohol or has methyl alcohol, formaldahyde or other poisons added
> to it to "de-nature" it. "De-natured" is a polite way of saying
that
it's
> poisonous! The government requires that
expressly so that people
won't be
> able to drink it. Let's burn gasoline in
our cars (at least till
something
> > better comes along) and save the grain alcohol for drinking!
> >
> > Joe
> >
> >
6:46 a.m.
New subject: OT oil shortage
joe wrote:
At 10:39 PM 7/10/01 -0400, you wrote:
Trust me I don't believe W and his cronies that basically control him -Big Oil.
Other than "national security" (and that is arbitrary to say the least) the
current admistration would do nothing to assist in the import/export ratio
in a manner that would assist the people. More the opposite; his commitment is to
those same folks gouging us and their cousin the Military Indistrial Complex.
Eric
Richard Erlacher wrote:
That's true but you miss the point. The US is still a major exporter
of oil, coal and other fuels. Please tell me why should we be exporting
it if we don't have enough to meet our own needs (if you buy the current
line from the GWB establishment).
What's more, they (the Oil interests) would
really hate it if they were
require
to sell all the production from the U.S. to the
U.S. and stop exporting.
You imply that Big Oil is purely American. Their domain is the whole planet.
7:24 a.m.
New subject: OT oil shortage
At 02:46 PM 7/11/01 -0400, you wrote:
joe wrote:
No, more likely Big Oil controls him!
Joe
At 10:39 PM 7/10/01 -0400, you wrote:
>Richard Erlacher wrote:
>
> > What's more, they (the Oil interests) would really hate it if they were
> require
> > to sell all the production from the U.S. to the U.S. and stop
exporting.
> >
>
>You imply that Big Oil is purely American. Their domain is the whole
planet.
That's true but you miss the point. The US is still a major exporter
of oil, coal and other fuels. Please tell me why should we be exporting
it if we don't have enough to meet our own needs (if you buy the current
line from the GWB establishment).
Trust me I don't believe W and his cronies that basically control him -Big
Oil. 
9:35 a.m.
New subject: OT oil shortage
That's true but you miss the point. The US is
still a major exporter
of oil, coal and other fuels. Please tell me why should we be exporting
it if we don't have enough to meet our own needs (if you buy the current
line from the GWB establishment).
The USA serves as a buffer to stabilize energy prices, and prevent the
casual use of oil supply as a political tool. Isreal and Japan get a LOT of
protection from this, and I suspect at least some quid pro quo exists.
9 Jul
9 Jul
3:22 a.m.
New subject: OT oil shortage
Joe,
joe wrote:
Didn't I essentially say the same thing? I don't think the oil
"crisis"
has anything to do with the electricity "crisis". Our (US) electrical
grid/system hasn't been upgraded to keep pace with demand and maybe not
even kept current (no pun intended :-) I did hear that more power
stations are being built more than ever before, However. I guess
someone thought it was a good idea to build a few :-)
What I have always heard, was that our oil, "Texas oil" wasn't the same
quality as oil from the middle east, and that Alaskan oil was much
closer in quality to oil from the middle east. I know our oil isn't all
in Texas and Alaska, but those are the two big name places everyone in
the US thinks of.
How is drilling new wells, with fancy new technology cheaper than using
existing wells with existing technology, i.e. wells and technology that
are paid for and proven already?
Don't quite a few cars get mileage in the 30's already? I drive a
truck, so I am not as familiar with car gas mileage anymore.
Well my point wasn't really the engineering, that was a bonus :-)
I don't buy the whole population problem deal either, but lets save that
one for later :-)
Chad Fernandez
Michigan, USA
Sorry for continuing this thread but I couldn't let this one pass!
Wow, I don't' usually get that kind of response :-)
I think you need to do your home work. The oil
companies have been
shutting down refineries. They've shutdown almost 30% of the refineries in
this country in the last ten years.
Why? Even if they import the oil, they still have to refine it?
They may need to build more. or rebuild burned
ones. The
electricity problems comes from growing and growing use, without
appropriate updates on the power system.
That's very true but the problems with the electrical power industry
are due to a shortage of generating stations (particularly in California)
and has NOTHING to do with oil refinery capacity or any supposed oil shortage. Drilling in new locations isn't supposed to
increase refinery capacity.
It is part of a longer range solution.
Horseshit! They're closing down wells everyday and have been for
years! Take a drive through Lousianna sometime! I was in Alaska a couple
of years ago and toured nearly the full length of the Alaskan pipeline.
Even it's only running at about 40% of it's capacity. The only reason that
they want to drill in ANWAR and GOM is because the oil companies want a
CHEAPER source of oil so they can increase their already record profits!
That's the same reason that the US continues to import oil from the middle
east. Even with their price increases it's still cheaper to buy their oil
than it is to produce our own. If the government is serious about a "long
range solutions" then they
should mandate that ALL cars achive 30mpg by say 2006, then raise it to
35mpg by 2011, then 40 mpg by 2016, etc until we achive the best practicle
mileage.
Don't quite a few cars get mileage in the 30's already? I drive a
truck, so I am not as familiar with car gas mileage anymore.
50 mpg is very possible, a number of standard
production cars
have already achived it. That's only one step, there are hundreds if not
thousands of other practicle solutions. Another solution would be to
mandate solar hot water heaters in all homes.
I don't think solar hot water heaters would work very well here in
Michigan. We have to many clouds and overcast days, unfortunately.
I have one in my home and
it's been my only source of hot water for over 15 years and I've never run
out of hot water.
How does it work? Is it homemade, or a commercial product?
Drilling in new locations is
something a lot of countries are doing.
Sure, because they all want to be independent of foreign sources and
because it's a huge source of revenue.
Drilling in the North Sea is
being done now, or maybe deeper water than normal..... I don't recall.
I have seen a show on Discovery or TLC about the building of the
platform. It was a huge engineering feat the way they built it.
Yes, the engineering is impressive but again that has nothing to do with
the "nessesicity" for drilling in ANWAR or GOM. I know a good bit about alcohol powered vehicles,
I've been
experimenting with them since the late 60s. Alcohol is not nearly as
powerfull, cost effective or as efficient as gasoline.
Then why do certain classes of race vehicles use it, if it isn't as
powerful?
Alcohol also has
major incompatibilities with the components of automotive fuel systems.
Doesn't it just take a switch to stainless steal for lines, tank, etc.?
A
number of companies have tried selling gasoline with alcohol added
but AFIK they're all dropped it due to the cost, performance and other
problems.
You mean gasohol... I remember that stuff :-)
Something might
have to be done about people drinking the contents of ones gas tank :-)
That would cure the population problem!
5:28 a.m.
New subject: OT oil shortage
At 11:22 AM 7/9/01 -0400, Chad wrote:
Good question. Dammed if I know.
shortage.
Didn't I essentially say the same thing?
Maybe you meant that but you suddenly changed subjects when you said
"They may need to build more. or rebuild burned ones. The electricity
problems...." and it sounded like you thought the electricity shortage had
something to do with the oil shortage.
What I have always heard, was that our oil, "Texas oil" wasn't the same
quality as oil from the middle east, and that Alaskan oil was much
closer in quality to oil from the middle east. I know our oil isn't all
in Texas and Alaska, but those are the two big name places everyone in
the US thinks of.
Actually I think we get more oil from California and Oklahoma than we
do Texas. I can't say that I know much about the "quality" of oil but I
bet they measure it in $/barrel!
Yes, they are some areas where some ideas don't work. That's one
problem with government solutions, they always to a one-size-fits-all
solution. But there are a lot of things that work great on a local basis
like David's use of chip-oil to power his car.
It's a mix. About 18 years ago the government was giving tax rabates
to people that installed solar energy devices so a lot of solar energy
product manufacturers (and salesmen) sprung up. I looked at several ready
made systems but most of them left a lot to be desired so I designed my own
using commercail components. The state of Florida operates a solar enegy
center at Kennedy Space Center and they have tested all the different
collectors
and other devices and have papers with all the test results. I bought a 4 x
8 foot collector that was rated the second best of all the ones that they
had tested. I also bought a good quality 1/10 hp pump, an 80 gallon glass
lined Lockenvar tank and a good controller. The controller turns the pump
on when the temperature of the collector is 10d higher than that of the
water in the tank. In cold weather it also turns the pump on when the
collector's temperature drops below 40d F. That pumps hot water from the
tank through the collector to keep it from freezing. I also added a
mechanically operated vent valve at the top of the collector. It opens when
the temperture drops below 38d. When it opens, hot water from the tank
flows up through the collector and is then vented. That system relies on
water pressure alone and uses no electricity. It's there in case we have
freezing tempertures and the power is off. That's about it, there's some
bells and whistles like cut off and drain valves, electrical overrides and
a flow gauge but they're not really necessary. I put it all in and hooked
it up almost 18 years ago and I've had zero problems with it. We don't get
a lot of freezing weather here but it has survived down to 12d F. I don't
do anything to it to prepare it for old weather, everything is automatic.
Well my point wasn't really the engineering, that was a bonus :-)
Gadget freak! Hey, that reminds me, somewhere I have an
oil-drilling program ROM for my HP-41. I've played with the programs and
read the manual but I'll be dammed if I understand what they're talking about!
They make up for the inherent lack of power (about 20% less) by
turbo-charging the engines. The Indy cars are a good example. The top
fuel dragsters are another good example but they cheat by adding
Nitro-Methane! (I once tried 40% alcohol and 40% Nitro-Methane in a model
airplane engine. Boy, did that thing go!) Alcohol is preferred because
it's a lot safer. Compare an alcohol fire and a gasoline fire sometime. You
can literally hold alcohol in your hand while it burns (just put it out
before it completely burns up!)
You'd think so but I guess there are a lot of "rubber" seals in the
pumps, fuel injectors and pressure regulators that aren't as easy to
fix. Besides have you ever compared the price of stainless steel vs
regular steel? WOW! I'm sure it's not something that the car companies
would do willingly.
I don't buy the whole population problem deal either, but lets save that
one for later :-)
Yeah, let's save that one for another flame-war. Sellam and Richard
already have a good one going!
Joe
Joe,
joe wrote:
Sorry but I get feed up with people that just quote the latest party
line and don't pay attention to what's going on. For months last year the
oil companies said publicly that the latest shortage and higher prices were
due to a lack of refinery capacity. Then after GWB took office, he
announced that it was due to a lack of oil wells and decided to try and
open up ANWAR and the Gulf of Mexico for drilling. Doesn't that seem
strange to you?
Do you remember earlier this year when the oil companies and the
Republican administration said that this shortage would last for several
more years and that prices would continue to rise for at least another
year? Do you remember when the Democrats called for an congressional
investigation into the supposed shortage but couldn't get one since they
were a minority in both houses? Doesn't it seem strange that after the
Democrats gained control of the Senate recently that the "shortage"
immediately ended and prices have steadily fallen since?
Sorry for continuing this thread but I couldn't let this one pass!
Wow, I don't' usually get that kind of response :-) I think you need to do your home work. The
oil companies have been
shutting down refineries. They've shutdown almost 30% of the refineries in
this country in the last ten years.
Why? Even if they import the oil, they still have to
refine it?
Of course.
They may need to build more. or rebuild burned
ones. The
electricity problems comes from growing and growing use, without
appropriate updates on the power system.
That's very true but the problems with the electrical power industry
are due to a shortage of generating stations (particularly in California)
and has NOTHING to do with oil refinery capacity or any supposed oil I don't think the oil "crisis"
has anything to do with the electricity "crisis". Our (US) electrical
grid/system hasn't been upgraded to keep pace with demand and maybe not
even kept current (no pun intended :-)
As I understand it, the electrical power problem is mainly confined to
California and is a result of them not building any generating plants in
the last few years. Of course, the problem will affect all of us directly
or indirectly since companies in other states will soon be selling their
power to California (because they'll pay more) and will start shorting the
people in their own states. (PLEASE! Let's not get into another long
argument about who or what caused the problems in California.
I did hear that more power
stations are being built more than ever before, However. I guess
someone thought it was a good idea to build a few :-)
I think you're right but I don't like the trend that I see
developing. A lot of companies are now building "merchant" plants in
states other than where they operate. These plants will generate power and
sell it to the highest bidder with no regard to the people in the state
that they're located in or where the company is (supposed to be)
located. I know a lot of you don't see a problem with that but the power
companies are monopolies and are supposed to operate at a reasonable profit
for the benefit of the people that they serve. Now they're going to be just
another big money-grubbing company but still retain the powers and benefits
of a monopoly and benefit no one but themselves. FWIW Duke Power is
building one of those plants about 20 miles from where I live. The plans
are for all of the power that they generate to go to the Carolinas. We
only "benefit" that we will see is them sucking 2,000,000 gallons of water
per day out of the underground water aquifer for their own use (we're
already under mandatory water use restrictions and have been for several
years). Also we will get the "benefit" of their toxins and other emissions
from their coal fired boilers. Oh, and somehow
they're gong to have to
move a thousand tons of coal into the area every few
days. I'm sure their
are other "benefits" that we haven't found out about yet.
Drilling in new locations isn't supposed to
increase refinery capacity.
It is part of a longer range solution.
Horseshit! They're closing down wells everyday and have been for
years! Take a drive through Lousianna sometime! I was in Alaska a couple
of years ago and toured nearly the full length of the Alaskan pipeline.
Even it's only running at about 40% of it's capacity. The only reason that
they want to drill in ANWAR and GOM is because the oil companies want a
CHEAPER source of oil so they can increase their already record profits!
That's the same reason that the US continues to import oil from the middle
east. Even with their price increases it's still cheaper to buy their oil
than it is to produce our own. How is drilling new wells, with fancy new technology
cheaper than using
existing wells with existing technology, i.e. wells and technology that
are paid for and proven already?
Don't quite a few cars get mileage in the 30's already? I drive a
truck, so I am not as familiar with car gas mileage anymore.
Yes, a lot of them do but a lot of others don't. I think you'll find
that the average is a lot lower than 30mpg. Look at the surge in the sales
of the huge new SUVs like the new ones from Cadilacc. Would you care to
guess what their mileage is?
If the government is serious about a
"long range solutions" then they
should mandate that ALL cars achive 30mpg by say 2006, then raise it to
35mpg by 2011, then 40 mpg by 2016, etc until we achive the best practicle
mileage.
Don't quite a few cars get mileage in the 30's already? I drive a
truck, so I am not as familiar with car gas mileage anymore.
50 mpg is very possible, a number of standard
production cars
have already achived it. That's only one step, there are hundreds if not
thousands of other practicle solutions. Another solution would be to
mandate solar hot water heaters in all homes.
I don't think solar hot water heaters would work very well here in
Michigan. We have to many clouds and overcast days, unfortunately. I have one in
my home and
it's been my only source of hot water for over 15 years and I've never run
out of hot water.
How does it work? Is it homemade, or a commercial product? Drilling in new locations is
something a lot of countries are doing.
Sure, because they all want to be independent of foreign sources and
because it's a huge source of revenue.
Drilling in the North Sea is
being done now, or maybe deeper water than normal..... I don't recall.
I have seen a show on Discovery or TLC about the building of the
platform. It was a huge engineering feat the way they built it.
Yes, the engineering is impressive but again that has nothing to do with
the "nessesicity" for drilling in ANWAR or GOM. I know a
good bit about alcohol powered vehicles, I've been
experimenting with them since the late 60s. Alcohol is not nearly as
powerfull, cost effective or as efficient as gasoline.
Then why do certain classes of race vehicles use it, if it isn't as
powerful? Alcohol also
has
major incompatibilities with the components of automotive fuel systems.
Doesn't it just take a switch to stainless steal for lines, tank, etc.? A
number of companies have tried selling gasoline with alcohol added
but AFIK they're all dropped it due to the cost, performance and other
problems.
You mean gasohol... I remember that stuff :-)
Something might
have to be done about people drinking the contents of ones gas tank :-)
That would cure the population problem! Chad Fernandez
Michigan, USA
6 Jul
6 Jul
3:42 p.m.
On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote:
I'd be worrying more about the guy in the White
House than the guy
in Redmond. Only the right wingers would tolerate such an imbecile
in the oval office. Not
What about those who tolerated the previous Bozo in Chief, Slick
Willie? Also, let's not forget how they also tolerated little Miz
"your healthcare is the governments business, not yours" Megalomania,
a.k.a. Hillary, who's rumored to have walked Slick Willie around the
nut^H^H^Hwhite house grounds on a leash while shouting "Heel little
willie!"
We really need a better presidential candidate. My vote goes to Uncle
"I'll shoot them in the back with an elephant gun" Fester (remember
him from the Adams Family TV show?) . Just think of the great political
slogan he'd have:
Fester, Fester, he's our man - if he can't do it, blasting
caps can! Go FESTER!"
Just think, anyone who eats mercury-filled thermometers for a snack,
and can electrify light-bulbs by placing them in his mouth, can do
much more for this nation than most other recent presidents... like
solve the energy shortage! :-) :-) :-)
--
Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals:
All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature &
rdd(a)rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such
http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty.
3:53 p.m.
That certainly holds out more promise or helping the energy problem than the two
Texans do. Since the VP is a mite smarter than George-the-first's veep was, he
serves as less of a threat to those who might consider doing something really
radical ... BTW, who's the present Pres. pro-tem of the Senate? DC's
power-assisted heart might not handle Dubya's passing, should the fates smile on
us, doncha know.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "R. D. Davis" <rdd(a)smart.net>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 9:42 PM
Subject: Re: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor)
On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote:
such
I'd be worrying more about the guy in the
White House than the guy
in Redmond. Only the right wingers would tolerate such an imbecile
in the oval office. Not
What about those who tolerated the previous Bozo in Chief, Slick
Willie? Also, let's not forget how they also tolerated little Miz
"your healthcare is the governments business, not yours" Megalomania,
a.k.a. Hillary, who's rumored to have walked Slick Willie around the
nut^H^H^Hwhite house grounds on a leash while shouting "Heel little
willie!"
We really need a better presidential candidate. My vote goes to Uncle
"I'll shoot them in the back with an elephant gun" Fester (remember
him from the Adams Family TV show?) . Just think of the great political
slogan he'd have:
Fester, Fester, he's our man - if he can't do it, blasting
caps can! Go FESTER!"
Just think, anyone who eats mercury-filled thermometers for a snack,
and can electrify light-bulbs by placing them in his mouth, can do
much more for this nation than most other recent presidents... like
solve the energy shortage! :-) :-) :-)
--
Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals:
All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature &
rdd(a)rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify
much human cruelty.
7 Jul
7 Jul
12:53 a.m.
If the Vice-President becomes President due to death or incapacitation of
the President, then he nominates VP subject to congressional confirmation.
The President pro tem of the Senate is after the Speaker of the House in the
line of succession--this changed with the 25th amendment in 1967. The only
way for the Speaker of the House to become President by succession is for
both the President and Vice-President to be lost at the same time.
Yes, I looked it up <grin>:
25th Amendment: http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html#Am25
U.S. Code Title III Section 19: http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/3/19.html
--Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Erlacher" <edick(a)idcomm.com>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 10:53 PM
Subject: Re: OT Celebration (Not intended to be offensive, possible humor)
That certainly holds out more promise or helping the
energy problem than
the two
Texans do. Since the VP is a mite smarter than
George-the-first's veep
was, he
serves as less of a threat to those who might consider
doing something
really
radical ... BTW, who's the present Pres. pro-tem
of the Senate? DC's
power-assisted heart might not handle Dubya's passing, should the fates
smile
on
us, doncha know.
Dick
6 Jul
6 Jul
9:22 a.m.
Can we get the political debates out of here?
--
Eric Dittman
dittman(a)dittman.net
8516
days inactive
8523
days old
29 comments
11 participants
participants (11)
-
chomko＠greenbelt.com -
dittman＠dittman.net -
edick＠idcomm.com -
fernande＠internet1.net -
mikeford＠socal.rr.com -
msell＠ontimesupport.com -
mwp＠acm.org -
optimus＠canit.se -
rdd＠smart.net -
rigdonj＠intellistar.net -
vance＠ikickass.org