14 Feb
2002
14 Feb
'02
7:30 p.m.
The car that can't pass emissions is like the
computer that won't run. It's
of no real use, except maybe for parts.
Um... WRONG... the $4,000 Toyota just needs a new cat ($100 in parts and
$80 in labor). The guy just felt like buying a new car. But since he
donated it to us with the understanding it would be cut up, we can't sell
it (like we would have liked, since we would have done the labor ourself,
and used the money we got by selling the car for 4 grand to buy a new
scott pack). Its about the same as throwing out a computer saying it is
good only for parts, because the OS install has become corrupted.
(have you tried to salvage parts
from
a computer lately?)
I do it weekly, when I pick up PCs sitting in curbside garbage. I built
my home PC out of 90% salvaged parts. I have also upgraded most of the
computers at my office entirely out of garbaged PCs. Some are mix and
match, but many are picked up and need nothing more than a shot of 409 to
clean the case as they work perfectly. I get a working 14 inch SVGA
monitor
weekly at this point. Heck... I have a Mac LC5200 sitting on the floor
next to me that I just grabbed out of the garbage on my drive home
Sunday... works fine... its heading to one of my office sites to upgrade
an older 68k Mac.
there are lots of perfectly useable
PC's (you know, the ones with 640KB of RAM and no HDD) out there. They still
do everything a PC ever did, and a lot more than the mainframes of 1960 did.
What should we do with them? Once people don't want them any longer, whether
they're still functional is entirely moot.
But there ARE people out there that still want them... they just aren't
being given the option to have them... they are being scrapped without
anyone checking.
If someone's interested in 'em,
well, that's why there's this list.
Sure, great, ok, contact the group taking all the computers from Staples,
and get them to agree to list all the computers they don't feel like
keeping (what was it 90% of them are being junked?) and have them offer
them up to others... either on this list, or a web site, or whatever. Bet
they will tell you to bugger off, they can't be bothered... they are
going to pick thru for the few they want, and the rest will become scrap
metal. That is unfortunately true for most organizations (the local
salvation army store told me they stopped taking computer donations
because of return problems... when I pressed them on the topic wondering
how they tell someone they can't donate an item... they told me that they
actually still take them, they just toss them in the dumpster to avoid
the heartaches of selling them... needless to say, I have been trying to
keep an eye on the dumpster)
So you are STILL wrong... a huge number of perfectly good... and WANTED
machines, get scrapped all the time. I could continue to give you
examples if you want... like the pharmaceutical company up the road that
is tossing working Pentium II PCs and 17 inch monitors, because they are
upgrading to P4's and flat screens. The PCs are being junked under
contract to have them destroyed because the hard drives may contain
sensitive info, and they didn't want to take the time to remove them, or
securely wipe them (a friend works at the site, I had him look into it).
Should I give you MORE examples of machines being scrapped that are
wanted, or useful, or interesting?
-chris
<http://www.mythtech.net>
15 Feb
15 Feb
2 a.m.
The car that
can't pass emissions is like the computer that won't run. It's
of no real use, except maybe for parts.
Um... WRONG... the $4,000 Toyota just needs a new cat ($100 in parts and
$80 in labor). The guy just felt like buying a new car. But since he from the opposite too lean (maybe) and I get the first
repair quote of $125
to "clean" the injectors. Well this roasted my
chicken, since I was at the
Mobil station getting the test where I bought all my gas, that was supposed
to be keeping my engine clean. Anyway I do it, but the pretest still shows
me failing and now its worse, which the mechanic says means the O2 sensors
are bad and need $250 of replacing, and much more expensive it could need
cats for $700.
Gotta be someplace cheaper, so I hunt up a gas station that buys just Mark
VII cars and fixes and parts them out. For $200 he agrees on the phone to
sell me the whole front end of the exhaust system, but when I arrive that
doesn't include the O2 sensors, or a gaurantee they work (ie will pass the
test). Eventually the guy talks me into $30 worth of trying some
"adjustments", but he actually runs a "real" smog test to check his
results, which failed miserably, and due to the hook up of his test rig to
the DMV my car is permanently classified as a GROSS POLLUTER requiring
special testing on all future smog tests. <surprizingly the fellow is still
alive> (mostly due to me not knowing how screwed I was until later)
Finally, after I have well passed the license renewal date and have a
whopper penalty, I go to a better mechanic and he assures me the next step
are O2 sensors, then cats, and I pop for the O2, and after that fails to
fix, I hunt down some cheap cats and ouila, everything is perfect, except
its a gross polluter on the license for life even though it measures like
new. The ticket my wife got for expired tags was a real thrill too.
4:38 a.m.
Yes, but the REAL problem is that the '86 automobile came from Detroit, where
cars have, since the '60's been designed to become, and to stay, worthless
before the ever-increasing period of the payments expires.
Likewise with the majority of personal computers. They're designed to become
undesirable within the 24-month window from "now" to when "generation
after
next" is on the showroom floor.
A few exceptions get swept along under the same umberella, but, for the most
part, if people wanted 'em, they'd not end up in the junk pile. The problem
with the throwaway society is that most people just don't want the hassle of
passing their throwaways to someone who might be able to used them because
they decline to have contact with such individuals.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Ford" <mikeford(a)socal.rr.com>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2002 6:00 AM
Subject: Re: Destructive charities (was: STAPLES STORES...)
Short answer, my Lincoln dealer wanted a $1000 authorization to even look
at my smog test failing Mark VII, and if it did prove to have bad cats
would only replace them with Ford parts which were over a grand. Charity
looked pretty good, but I EVENTUALLY found a cheapo muffler shop that
replaced both cats for $187.
Long answer.
Knowledge is power. 4 years ago my 86 Lincoln Mark VII was running a tad
funky at emissions testing time, and by a TINY margin failed one element of
the smog test (HC I think). So I figure bad gas, and run the tank empty and
fillup with premium, then go back for the free retest. Again it fails, but
from the opposite too lean (maybe) and I get the first repair quote of $125
to "clean" the injectors. Well this roasted my chicken, since I was at the
Mobil station getting the test where I bought all my gas, that was supposed
to be keeping my engine clean. Anyway I do it, but the pretest still shows
me failing and now its worse, which the mechanic says means the O2 sensors
are bad and need $250 of replacing, and much more expensive it could need
cats for $700.
Gotta be someplace cheaper, so I hunt up a gas station that buys just Mark
VII cars and fixes and parts them out. For $200 he agrees on the phone to
sell me the whole front end of the exhaust system, but when I arrive that
doesn't include the O2 sensors, or a gaurantee they work (ie will pass the
test). Eventually the guy talks me into $30 worth of trying some
"adjustments", but he actually runs a "real" smog test to check his
results, which failed miserably, and due to the hook up of his test rig to
the DMV my car is permanently classified as a GROSS POLLUTER requiring
special testing on all future smog tests. <surprizingly the fellow is still
alive> (mostly due to me not knowing how screwed I was until later)
Finally, after I have well passed the license renewal date and have a
whopper penalty, I go to a better mechanic and he assures me the next step
are O2 sensors, then cats, and I pop for the O2, and after that fails to
fix, I hunt down some cheap cats and ouila, everything is perfect, except
its a gross polluter on the license for life even though it measures like
new. The ticket my wife got for expired tags was a real thrill too.
>>The car that can't pass emissions is like
the computer that won't run.
It's
of no real use, except maybe for parts.
Um... WRONG... the $4,000 Toyota just needs a new cat ($100 in parts and
$80 in labor). The guy just felt like buying a new car. But since he 
16 Feb
16 Feb
8:41 a.m.
Well, it grudges me Dick, and maybe I have misjudged you on some things,
but I'm pretty well in agreement with much of what you say here.
There are thinktanks that major corporations support, as well as many
marketing agencies, whose whole purpose is to keep the corporation
profitable. Along with that are departments whose whole purpose is to reduce
the production costs of the product. The idea is "The Big Sell" to convince us
all that we need these products while reducing the quality of them.
But I would also say that this is true not only of US producers. While there
may be a few successful quality production companies, who can argue that
most heavily indoctinated consumers would prefer Mc donalds to quality
foods. Quality to most consumers is not important because they've never
experienced it. Even in Moscow McD does well, but would fail in rural areas
since the hype is absent.
Ask a former rural Jamaican or most country people about tomatoes and
they will rhapsodise about how good, how live, they were. But the tomatoes
most urban people eat are picked green, ripened in a boxcar and subjected
to immense chemical infusions before they even get that far.
Whether it's radio playlists. local or international news, the newest,hippest
gadgets, we are programmed. And unless the message is changed we are
for the main, simply responding at a level largely beyond our control. Even
tho we attest our resistance to the media manipulators.
Yes, but the REAL problem is that the '86
automobile came from Detroit, where
cars have, since the '60's been designed to become, and to stay, worthless
before the ever-increasing period of the payments expires.
Likewise with the majority of personal computers. They're designed to become
undesirable within the 24-month window from "now" to when "generation
after
next" is on the showroom floor.
A few exceptions get swept along under the same umberella, but, for the most
part, if people wanted 'em, they'd not end up in the junk pile. The problem
with the throwaway society is that most people just don't want the hassle of
passing their throwaways to someone who might be able to used them because they
decline to have contact with such individuals.
I don't think you read the exceptions that earlier posters expressed. They
are saying that the market/throwaway economy throws barriers in the way of
those who don't subscribe to the prevailing currents from availing themselves
of the benifits of their (dis)beliefs. The "bottom line" says destroy anything
that will detract from future profits. Just like the food barons in the hungry
30s that would rather see food destroyed than fall into the hands of potential
customers even if the alternative is starvation.
The "hassle" you speak about is the lack of any moral fibre or example.
I would like to think that my actions contribute to the social good. If I can
prevent a piece of metal and silicone which took so much labor to produce
from being part of a landfill, while ever more natural
resources are torn from
the earth for a small minorities profit, and also allow
someone else access to
enriching knowledge, then I am doing a GOOD thing and providing an
example for those that would simply go along with the corporate agenda.
I'm not a religious person, but I doubt I would be contaminated by having
contact with "those individuals". However I would avoid and abhor those
godless types who fear contamination should they give to the less fortunate.
May they rot in Hell. It's not enough to simply accept bad social behavior.
Lawrence
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Ford" <mikeford(a)socal.rr.com>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2002 6:00 AM
Subject: Re: Destructive charities (was: STAPLES STORES...)
Short answer, my Lincoln dealer wanted a $1000 authorization to even look at
my smog test failing Mark VII, and if it did prove to have bad cats would only
replace them with Ford parts which were over a grand. Charity looked pretty
good, but I EVENTUALLY found a cheapo muffler shop that replaced both cats for
$187.
Long answer.
Knowledge is power. 4 years ago my 86 Lincoln Mark VII was running a tad
funky at emissions testing time, and by a TINY margin failed one element of
the smog test (HC I think). So I figure bad gas, and run the tank empty and
fillup with premium, then go back for the free retest. Again it fails, but
from the opposite too lean (maybe) and I get the first repair quote of $125 to
"clean" the injectors. Well this roasted my chicken, since I was at the Mobil
station getting the test where I bought all my gas, that was supposed to be
keeping my engine clean. Anyway I do it, but the pretest still shows me
failing and now its worse, which the mechanic says means the O2 sensors are
bad and need $250 of replacing, and much more expensive it could need cats for
$700.
Gotta be someplace cheaper, so I hunt up a gas station that buys just Mark VII
cars and fixes and parts them out. For $200 he agrees on the phone to sell me
the whole front end of the exhaust system, but when I arrive that doesn't
include the O2 sensors, or a gaurantee they work (ie will pass the test).
Eventually the guy talks me into $30 worth of trying some "adjustments", but
he actually runs a "real" smog test to check his results, which failed
miserably, and due to the hook up of his test rig to the DMV my car is
permanently classified as a GROSS POLLUTER requiring special testing on all
future smog tests. <surprizingly the fellow is still alive> (mostly due to me
not knowing how screwed I was until later)
Finally, after I have well passed the license renewal date and have a
whopper penalty, I go to a better mechanic and he assures me the next step are
O2 sensors, then cats, and I pop for the O2, and after that fails to fix, I
hunt down some cheap cats and ouila, everything is perfect, except its a gross
polluter on the license for life even though it measures like new. The ticket
my wife got for expired tags was a real thrill too.
Reply to:
lgwalker(a)mts.net
>>The car that can't pass emissions is
like the computer that won't run.
It's
of no real use, except maybe for parts.
Um... WRONG... the $4,000 Toyota just needs a new cat ($100 in parts and $80
in labor). The guy just felt like buying a new car. But since he 
15 Feb
15 Feb
1:41 p.m.
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