31 May
2011
31 May
'11
7:21 p.m.
For those of you who have heard about a mythical
SIX BUTTON FRONT PANEL for the BA23,
it does exist and actually works. NOTE that the
first hard disk drive MUST be set to DS3 and the
second hard disk drive MUST be set to DS4.
You will almost certainly destroy the format for
BOTH hard drives if they are both set the same.
A SIX button front panel for a BA23 had been sitting
on my bench of spare parts for more than a decade.
I finally had an opportunity to use it yesterday for the
first time to make a backup copy of an RD51 to a
second RD51 Both READ ONLY buttons operate
independently and can be turned off and on at any
time - as expected, but now verified.
There is a simple work around which requires a bit
of soldering to a short piece of 10 pin cable, but then
the READ ONLY button can't be used very well
and is not independent for both drives. I imagine that
Tony could add a bit more with a switch that would
work much better. If you don't ever use the READ
ONLY button, then the simple work around will
be sufficient.
While I first backed up the RD51 to a TK25 before
I installed the SIX button front panel, being able to
directly copy (and compare) the two hard disk drives
(especially an RD51 which takes under 3 minutes)
is much more convenient.
This is just to let anyone who is interested that if you
are using an RQDXn with a BA23, you actually are
able to place two hard drives in the same box.
If I am also using the RX50, then I usually run extra
long cables out the front of the BA23 and keep the
RX50 outside the BA23. If the BA23 backplane is
full and you are also using a TK70, then I put both
the RX50 and the TK70 inside the BA23 and use
the extra long cables to the hard disk drives PLUS
I use a spare PC power supply for the hard disk
drives so that I don't overload the BA23 power supply.
NOTE that my experiments using a BA123 and ESDI
Hitachi hard drives which tend to run rather hot and
also require their own fans (when I used an external
PC power supply), I found that the TK70 MUST use
the internal power supply from the BA123. I imagine
that the same would apply to the BA23 box for both
a TK50 and a TK70.
Yes, I occasionally do work with real DEC hardware.
Jerome Fine
31 May
31 May
10:25 p.m.
On 5/31/11 10:21 PM, Jerome H. Fine wrote:
For those of you who have heard about a mythical
SIX BUTTON FRONT PANEL for the BA23,
it does exist and actually works.
Umm, yeah...Are these unusual? Half of my BA23s have those
six-button panels.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
1 Jun
1 Jun
12:19 a.m.
On 01/06/2011 03:21, Jerome H. Fine wrote:
For those of you who have heard about a mythical
SIX BUTTON FRONT PANEL for the BA23,
it does exist and actually works.
Mythical? I've probably seen more BA23s with a 6-button panel than
without, and both my BA23s have 6-button panels.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
7:01 a.m.
On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 3:19 AM, Pete Turnbull <pete at dunnington.plus.com> wrote:
On 01/06/2011 03:21, Jerome H. Fine wrote:
Mine have the 4-button panel, but they were both purchased (by a
former employer) as MicroVAX-Is (new, at full price! $10,000, IIRC)
One was upgraded to a MicroVAX-II (also full price - $17,000, IIRC -
new CPU, new memory, new disk (RD51->RD53, IIRC), new disk controller
(RQDX1->RQDX3), new TQK50 and external TK50 tape drive, and the most
expensive part, a new VMS license). Both had one hard disk and one
RX50 so they didn't need the 6-button panel. Much later, each BA23
got the new, less-likely-to-catch-on-fire power harness (one was in
the process of failure to the point of emitting unpleasant plastic
odors).
I remember _trying_ to put two hard disks in one machine for quick
disk-to-disk copies. I have a fuzzy memory that it didn't work for
me, but I don't remember whacking either drive to the point that they
didn't work when returned to their former homes.
-ethan
For those of you who have heard about a mythical
SIX ?BUTTON ?FRONT ?PANEL for the BA23,
it does exist and actually works.
Mythical? ?I've probably seen more BA23s with a 6-button panel than without,
and both my BA23s have 6-button panels.
11:52 a.m.
On 01/06/2011 15:01, Ethan Dicks wrote:
I remember _trying_ to put two hard disks in one
machine for quick
disk-to-disk copies. I have a fuzzy memory that it didn't work for
me, but I don't remember whacking either drive to the point that they
didn't work when returned to their former homes.
You probably didn't set the drive select jumpers correctly.
If anyone is interested, the circuit for the switches is very simple.
When I made up a distribution card to use with an external drive box (in
lieu of an M9058) I drew it out and made some PCBs. You can find the
relevant schematics, descriptions, and some PCB layouts at
http://www.dunnington.u-net.com/public/RQDX/
Specifically, the switches schematic is at
http://www.dunnington.u-net.com/public/RQDX/RQDXn_LEDs_switches.pdf
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
8:12 a.m.
On 05/31/2011 10:21 PM, Jerome H. Fine wrote:
For those of you who have heard about a mythical
SIX BUTTON FRONT PANEL for the BA23,
I have several. They were no so unusual.
Mine allows me a pair of hard disks (half height) and a floppy
in my pedestal 11/53.
the MVII in Ba23 also has it only the disks are rd54 and half height
40mb (swap) plus RX33 (uses a RQDX3).
it does exist and actually works. NOTE that the
first hard disk drive MUST be set to DS3 and the
second hard disk drive MUST be set to DS4.
You will almost certainly destroy the format for
BOTH hard drives if they are both set the same.
Yep. Has to be oddly jumpered.
Allison
A SIX button front panel for a BA23 had been sitting
on my bench of spare parts for more than a decade.
I finally had an opportunity to use it yesterday for the
first time to make a backup copy of an RD51 to a
second RD51 Both READ ONLY buttons operate
independently and can be turned off and on at any
time - as expected, but now verified.
There is a simple work around which requires a bit
of soldering to a short piece of 10 pin cable, but then
the READ ONLY button can't be used very well
and is not independent for both drives. I imagine that
Tony could add a bit more with a switch that would
work much better. If you don't ever use the READ
ONLY button, then the simple work around will
be sufficient.
While I first backed up the RD51 to a TK25 before
I installed the SIX button front panel, being able to
directly copy (and compare) the two hard disk drives
(especially an RD51 which takes under 3 minutes)
is much more convenient.
This is just to let anyone who is interested that if you
are using an RQDXn with a BA23, you actually are
able to place two hard drives in the same box.
If I am also using the RX50, then I usually run extra
long cables out the front of the BA23 and keep the
RX50 outside the BA23. If the BA23 backplane is
full and you are also using a TK70, then I put both
the RX50 and the TK70 inside the BA23 and use
the extra long cables to the hard disk drives PLUS
I use a spare PC power supply for the hard disk
drives so that I don't overload the BA23 power supply.
NOTE that my experiments using a BA123 and ESDI
Hitachi hard drives which tend to run rather hot and
also require their own fans (when I used an external
PC power supply), I found that the TK70 MUST use
the internal power supply from the BA123. I imagine
that the same would apply to the BA23 box for both
a TK50 and a TK70.
Yes, I occasionally do work with real DEC hardware.
Jerome Fine
10:27 a.m.
There is a simple work around which requires a bit
of soldering to a short piece of 10 pin cable, but then
the READ ONLY button can't be used very well
and is not independent for both drives. I imagine that
Tony could add a bit more with a switch that would
work much better. If you don't ever use the READ
ONLY button, then the simple work around will
be sufficient.
Do I hear my name being taken in vain :-)
I've not looked into the documentation for the BA23 and associated bits,
but I cna';t believe it's beyond me to work it out :-). Do scheamtics of
the frontpanel boards exist anywhere, for example?
Normally when doing a modification like htis, the part that takes the
time (and maybe skill) is finding a suitable switch that will fit the
panel and look right alongside the otehrs. And if you can't get such a
part modifying the panel to take the closest match you can find.
-tony
11:36 a.m.
Tony Duell [ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk] wrote:
I've not looked into the documentation for the
BA23 and
associated bits,
but I cna';t believe it's beyond me to work it out :-). Do scheamtics
of the frontpanel boards exist anywhere, for example?
I did mod a panel once back when I was in DECpark. I asked around
and someone in TSC had the schematic, so it was pretty easy to do.
I almost certainly have that schematic somewhere so it undoubtedly
exists; the question is could I find it before anyone manages to
reverse engineer the (fairly simple) schematics :-)
Incidentally, when I was emailed the TIFF file I naturally asked
if there was a publically accessible repository. I was told that
they'd outsourced the scanning to someone and basically had to pay
each time they wanted to use one. Seemed really odd to me. Still,
it does imply a large stash of scans lying around somewhere ...
Antonio
arcarlini at iee.org
12:02 p.m.
but I
cna';t believe it's beyond me to work it out :-). Do scheamtics
of the frontpanel boards exist anywhere, for example?
I did mod a panel once back when I was in DECpark. I asked around
and someone in TSC had the schematic, so it was pretty easy to do.
I almost certainly have that schematic somewhere so it undoubtedly
exists; the question is could I find it before anyone manages to
reverse engineer the (fairly simple) schematics :-) From what I rememebr the switch PCB doesn't have
much on it, and I doubt
it would tax me too much to trace out a schematic. It must
be easier
than some of the things I've done, for example...
Actually, I suspect it's one of those units where it's quicker to trace
out a schematic than try to find out. [I realised years ago that for many
things it was quicker nd less stressful to reverse-engineer schematics
than to try to convice the manufacturers to sell me a service manual]
Undrotuantely the only BA23 I own (which contains a MicroVAX II GPX I
think) is hinding behind a MINC-23, a PERQ1 and assoreted smaller
machiens. Otherwise I'd regard producing schematic as a pleastant
diversion for half an hour or so...
-tony
4:20 p.m.
On 01/06/2011 20:02, Tony Duell wrote:
From what I rememebr the switch PCB doesn't have
much on it, and I doubt
it would tax me too much to trace out a schematic. It must be easier
than some of the things I've done, for example...
Actually, I suspect it's one of those units where it's quicker to trace
out a schematic than try to find out.
I could email you the PDF file or the PostScript file it was generated
from, if you like. They're quite small (5k PDF, 26k PS).
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
4725
days inactive
4725
days old
9 comments
7 participants
participants (7)
-
ajp166＠verizon.net -
arcarlini＠iee.org -
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
ethan.dicks＠gmail.com -
jhfinedp3k＠compsys.to -
mcguire＠neurotica.com -
pete＠dunnington.plus.com