28 Jul
1999
28 Jul
'99
7:22 a.m.
Hi -
Some of you may recognize me - an occasional contributor
to CLASSICCMP - as the maintainer of the PDP-11 freeware archives
at
http://metalab.unc.edu/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/
In between the RSX-11, RT-11, RSTS/E, and PRO stuff there, there's
well over a gigabyte of PDP-11 freeware available for downloading,
spanning 3 decades of sources. Others on this list have contributed
software to the archives, and I can't thank them enough for their efforts.
Recently, the idea of distributing a collection of the PDP-11 freeware
on multiple CD-ROM's has come up. (It'd be at least 2 CD-ROM's,
possibly more.) In part, this idea is motivated by the easy
distribution that CD-ROM affords (it sure beats lugging around
a few hundred 9-track reels), and it is also motivated by the fact that
CD-ROM drives are easily connected to Q-bus or Unibus PDP-11's through
a SCSI host adapter. I frequently make PDP-11 filesystem CD-ROM's
for my commercial customers who are converting from old media to
emulator disk images, and freeware tools for PC's (such as
John Wilson's PUTR) allow convenient access to RT-11 filesystems on
CD-ROM's. Of course, it's also possible to burn ISO9660 CD-ROM's
with disk or tape images, and it is in fact I have made "mixed
format" CD-ROM's that have both a ISO9660 directory structure
(for access on a PC-clone or Unix/VMS workstation) and a PDP-11
directory structure (in the higher-numbered partitions of the CD-ROM.)
My question is: would it be worthwhile for me to package up
the PDP-11 freeware collection on multiple CD's (probably one CD for RT-11,
one CD for RSTS/E, and two CD's for RSX-11 & POS) and distribute them?
Would folks be willing to pay, say, $15 each for duplication and
distribution costs, or is this completely out of line? Of course,
the network-accessible archive at metalab.unc.edu will still be
available for free. While it's clear that CD-ROM is a convenient
distribution medium, it's also clear that most folks on the 'net are
cheapskates and won't pay a dime to get something they could download
for free, so it's not obvious that if I had a batch of CD-ROM's made up
that anyone would ever actually pay a nominal amount for them.
If anyone has any comments, experiences, suggestions, etc.,
I'm all ears!
--
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
28 Jul
28 Jul
7:43 a.m.
Tim,
Excellent idea! At a reasonable price like $15/CD, I would buy
CD's for RT-11 and RSX-P/OS. Especially if they contain all those
old SIG tapes. Even with a high speed connection now, it's a
heck of a lot easier to put in a CD and look around for an old
package on it rather than trying to navigate via FTP.
Dave
CLASSICCMP(a)trailing-edge.com wrote:
Hi -
Some of you may recognize me - an occasional contributor
to CLASSICCMP - as the maintainer of the PDP-11 freeware archives
at
http://metalab.unc.edu/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/
In between the RSX-11, RT-11, RSTS/E, and PRO stuff there, there's
well over a gigabyte of PDP-11 freeware available for downloading,
spanning 3 decades of sources. Others on this list have contributed
software to the archives, and I can't thank them enough for their efforts.
Recently, the idea of distributing a collection of the PDP-11 freeware
on multiple CD-ROM's has come up. (It'd be at least 2 CD-ROM's,
possibly more.) In part, this idea is motivated by the easy
distribution that CD-ROM affords (it sure beats lugging around
a few hundred 9-track reels), and it is also motivated by the fact that
CD-ROM drives are easily connected to Q-bus or Unibus PDP-11's through
a SCSI host adapter. I frequently make PDP-11 filesystem CD-ROM's
for my commercial customers who are converting from old media to
emulator disk images, and freeware tools for PC's (such as
John Wilson's PUTR) allow convenient access to RT-11 filesystems on
CD-ROM's. Of course, it's also possible to burn ISO9660 CD-ROM's
with disk or tape images, and it is in fact I have made "mixed
format" CD-ROM's that have both a ISO9660 directory structure
(for access on a PC-clone or Unix/VMS workstation) and a PDP-11
directory structure (in the higher-numbered partitions of the CD-ROM.)
My question is: would it be worthwhile for me to package up
the PDP-11 freeware collection on multiple CD's (probably one CD for RT-11,
one CD for RSTS/E, and two CD's for RSX-11 & POS) and distribute them?
Would folks be willing to pay, say, $15 each for duplication and
distribution costs, or is this completely out of line? Of course,
the network-accessible archive at metalab.unc.edu will still be
available for free. While it's clear that CD-ROM is a convenient
distribution medium, it's also clear that most folks on the 'net are
cheapskates and won't pay a dime to get something they could download
for free, so it's not obvious that if I had a batch of CD-ROM's made up
that anyone would ever actually pay a nominal amount for them.
If anyone has any comments, experiences, suggestions, etc.,
I'm all ears!
--
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
8:28 a.m.
Excellent idea! At a reasonable price like $15/CD, I
would buy
CD's for RT-11 and RSX-P/OS. Especially if they contain all those
old SIG tapes. Even with a high speed connection now, it's a
heck of a lot easier to put in a CD and look around for an old
package on it rather than trying to navigate via FTP.
What about doing a single CD with something like a top ten downloads, but
primarily a nice, fast, local, complete directory with all the support
programs etc. needed to download and use files?
11:15 a.m.
Upon the date 12:22 PM 7/28/99 -0400, CLASSICCMP(a)trailing-edge.com said
something like:
Hi -
Some of you may recognize me - an occasional contributor
Who??! ;)
to CLASSICCMP - as the maintainer of the PDP-11
freeware archives
at
http://metalab.unc.edu/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/
In between the RSX-11, RT-11, RSTS/E, and PRO stuff there, there's
well over a gigabyte of PDP-11 freeware available for downloading,
spanning 3 decades of sources. Others on this list have contributed
software to the archives, and I can't thank them enough for their efforts.
Dang it Tim! Some of us really can't thank _you_ enough for your effort at
maintaining the metalab (ex-sunsite) archive!
Recently, the idea of distributing a collection of the PDP-11 freeware
on multiple CD-ROM's has come up. (It'd be at least 2 CD-ROM's,
possibly more.) In part, this idea is motivated by the easy
distribution that CD-ROM affords (it sure beats lugging around
a few hundred 9-track reels), and it is also motivated by the fact that
CD-ROM drives are easily connected to Q-bus or Unibus PDP-11's through
a SCSI host adapter. I frequently make PDP-11 filesystem CD-ROM's
SCSI host adaptor?!? Whazzat??!
Seriously, although this is actually the ideal way for many of us to go
with enjoying our Q-bus or/and Unibus PDP-11's (MicroVAXen et al, too), we
cannot easily find such host adaptors nor could justify paying a couple
hundred (or more) for them from the used market. For me, this is a hobby.
To you, and maybe a couple of others here, working with the good old PDP-11
gear is part of your job and needed costs can be passed onto the customer.
for my commercial customers who are converting from old
media to
emulator disk images, and freeware tools for PC's (such as
John Wilson's PUTR) allow convenient access to RT-11 filesystems on
CD-ROM's. Of course, it's also possible to burn ISO9660 CD-ROM's
with disk or tape images, and it is in fact I have made "mixed
format" CD-ROM's that have both a ISO9660 directory structure
(for access on a PC-clone or Unix/VMS workstation) and a PDP-11
directory structure (in the higher-numbered partitions of the CD-ROM.)
Cool.
My question is: would it be worthwhile for me to package up
the PDP-11 freeware collection on multiple CD's (probably one CD for RT-11,
one CD for RSTS/E, and two CD's for RSX-11 & POS) and distribute them?
Yes, I feel it would be worthwhile. Someday I will either get a bunch of
extra money that I don't know what to do with and hunt up one or two each
of Q-bus and Unibus SCSI host adaptors and appropriate HD devices or luck
into a rescue like some of you lucky stiffs have already done :) Can't
hold my breath for either though but I'm determined to somehow upgrade my
storage on the several systems I plan to keep, especially my MVII and
PDP-11/34A.
Cost per unit for somebody other than an original manufacturer to make up a
new batch of, say, 100 to 200 each Qbus and Unibus host adaptors probably
would still be very high even from an existing design from which rights to
build had been obtained. Of course, an original manufacturer might also do
it for a price. Relatively extreme price, that is.
Would folks be willing to pay, say, $15 each for
duplication and
distribution costs, or is this completely out of line? Of course,
$15 is fine. You are putting your own effort into setting up for and
burning the proposed CD's and should get what you feel is correct for this
service.
the network-accessible archive at metalab.unc.edu will
still be
available for free. While it's clear that CD-ROM is a convenient
distribution medium, it's also clear that most folks on the 'net are
cheapskates and won't pay a dime to get something they could download
Cheapskates? CHEAPSKATES!!! . . . I resemble that remark!! :-)
for free, so it's not obvious that if I had a batch
of CD-ROM's made up
that anyone would ever actually pay a nominal amount for them.
If anyone has any comments, experiences, suggestions, etc.,
I'm all ears!
Thanks for the offer of your service.
Regards, Chris
-- --
Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian
Jamestown, NY USA cfandt(a)netsync.net
Member of Antique Wireless Association
Check our redesigned website!
URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/
6:04 p.m.
a few hundred
9-track reels), and it is also motivated by the fact that
CD-ROM drives are easily connected to Q-bus or Unibus PDP-11's through
a SCSI host adapter. I frequently make PDP-11 filesystem CD-ROM's
SCSI host adaptor?!? Whazzat??!
Seriously, although this is actually the ideal way for many of us to go
with enjoying our Q-bus or/and Unibus PDP-11's (MicroVAXen et al, too), we
cannot easily find such host adaptors nor could justify paying a couple
hundred (or more) for them from the used market. For me, this is a hobby.
29 Jul
29 Jul
4:47 a.m.
Upon the date 08:04 PM 7/28/99 -0700, Mike Ford said something like:
<Mike quoted from a msg posted by Chris Fandt: >
Can't you just network a PC with a CDROM drive to the old DEC stuff?
That is another very good way to get SIG stuff into our PDP's. Actually,
with this, a CDROM is not needed. Just download files from metalab into the
PC and squirt them thru the network into the PDP. But once again, I would
have to find parts, etc. to setup the PDP's onto a network.
Regards, Chris
-- --
Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian
Jamestown, NY USA cfandt(a)netsync.net
Member of Antique Wireless Association
Check our redesigned website!
URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/
a few hundred 9-track reels), and it is also motivated
by the fact that
CD-ROM drives are easily connected to Q-bus or Unibus PDP-11's through
a SCSI host adapter. I frequently make PDP-11 filesystem CD-ROM's
SCSI host adaptor?!? Whazzat??!
Seriously, although this is actually the ideal way for many of us to go
with enjoying our Q-bus or/and Unibus PDP-11's (MicroVAXen et al, too), we
cannot easily find such host adaptors nor could justify paying a couple
hundred (or more) for them from the used market. For me, this is a hobby. 
5:27 a.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: Christian Fandt <cfandt(a)netsync.net>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Sent: Thursday, July 29, 1999 7:47 AM
Subject: Re: RT-11/RSX-11/RSTS freeware CD-ROM
That is another very good way to get SIG stuff into
our PDP's. Actually,
with this, a CDROM is not needed. Just download files from metalab into
the
PC and squirt them thru the network into the PDP. But
once again, I would
have to find parts, etc. to setup the PDP's onto a network.
Once you have the files on a PC, (or wherever your CDROM/internet is) it's
no problem to transfer it via kermit. (which is on the CDROM, right ?;-))
And a spare v24 cable, should be easy to find ...
cheers,
emanuel
P.S. Great idea Tim !
6:42 a.m.
Seriously, although this is actually the ideal way for
many of us to go
with enjoying our Q-bus or/and Unibus PDP-11's (MicroVAXen et al, too), we
cannot easily find such host adaptors nor could justify paying a couple
hundred (or more) for them from the used market. For me, this is a hobby.
Can't you just network a PC with a CDROM drive to the old DEC stuff?
28 Jul
28 Jul
12:49 p.m.
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1:06 p.m.
I'd buy them.
-Dave McGuire
On Wed, 28 Jul 1999, CLASSICCMP(a)trailing-edge.com wrote:
Hi -
Some of you may recognize me - an occasional contributor
to CLASSICCMP - as the maintainer of the PDP-11 freeware archives
at
http://metalab.unc.edu/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/
In between the RSX-11, RT-11, RSTS/E, and PRO stuff there, there's
well over a gigabyte of PDP-11 freeware available for downloading,
spanning 3 decades of sources. Others on this list have contributed
software to the archives, and I can't thank them enough for their efforts.
Recently, the idea of distributing a collection of the PDP-11 freeware
on multiple CD-ROM's has come up. (It'd be at least 2 CD-ROM's,
possibly more.) In part, this idea is motivated by the easy
distribution that CD-ROM affords (it sure beats lugging around
a few hundred 9-track reels), and it is also motivated by the fact that
CD-ROM drives are easily connected to Q-bus or Unibus PDP-11's through
a SCSI host adapter. I frequently make PDP-11 filesystem CD-ROM's
for my commercial customers who are converting from old media to
emulator disk images, and freeware tools for PC's (such as
John Wilson's PUTR) allow convenient access to RT-11 filesystems on
CD-ROM's. Of course, it's also possible to burn ISO9660 CD-ROM's
with disk or tape images, and it is in fact I have made "mixed
format" CD-ROM's that have both a ISO9660 directory structure
(for access on a PC-clone or Unix/VMS workstation) and a PDP-11
directory structure (in the higher-numbered partitions of the CD-ROM.)
My question is: would it be worthwhile for me to package up
the PDP-11 freeware collection on multiple CD's (probably one CD for RT-11,
one CD for RSTS/E, and two CD's for RSX-11 & POS) and distribute them?
Would folks be willing to pay, say, $15 each for duplication and
distribution costs, or is this completely out of line? Of course,
the network-accessible archive at metalab.unc.edu will still be
available for free. While it's clear that CD-ROM is a convenient
distribution medium, it's also clear that most folks on the 'net are
cheapskates and won't pay a dime to get something they could download
for free, so it's not obvious that if I had a batch of CD-ROM's made up
that anyone would ever actually pay a nominal amount for them.
If anyone has any comments, experiences, suggestions, etc.,
I'm all ears!
--
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
1:08 p.m.
Hi -
If anyone has any comments, experiences, suggestions, etc.,
I'm all ears!
--
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
YES! Y e s! YES!
Thank you.
My 28.8 modem makes downloading a drag. I'd love to see the Pro, RSX,
RT11 and RSTS stuff available on CD.
If duplication cost and sales is an issue, perhaps someone like
Cheapbytes or Walnut Creek could put it out like Walnut Creek did with the
CP/M rom.
Bill
---
bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org
Three things never anger: First, the one who runs your DEC,
The one who does Field Service and the one who signs your check.
6:42 p.m.
Tim,
Where do you want the check sent?
This is one of the best ideas I've seen in
a *long* time.
Thanks!
29 Jul
29 Jul
2:50 a.m.
Count me in for a CD set as well.
-- Tony
----- Original Message -----
From: <CLASSICCMP(a)trailing-edge.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 1999 12:22 PM
Subject: RT-11/RSX-11/RSTS freeware CD-ROM
Hi -
Some of you may recognize me - an occasional contributor
to CLASSICCMP - as the maintainer of the PDP-11 freeware archives
at
http://metalab.unc.edu/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/
In between the RSX-11, RT-11, RSTS/E, and PRO stuff there, there's
well over a gigabyte of PDP-11 freeware available for downloading,
spanning 3 decades of sources. Others on this list have contributed
software to the archives, and I can't thank them enough for their efforts.
Recently, the idea of distributing a collection of the PDP-11 freeware
on multiple CD-ROM's has come up. (It'd be at least 2 CD-ROM's,
possibly more.) In part, this idea is motivated by the easy
distribution that CD-ROM affords (it sure beats lugging around
a few hundred 9-track reels), and it is also motivated by the fact that
CD-ROM drives are easily connected to Q-bus or Unibus PDP-11's through
a SCSI host adapter. I frequently make PDP-11 filesystem CD-ROM's
for my commercial customers who are converting from old media to
emulator disk images, and freeware tools for PC's (such as
John Wilson's PUTR) allow convenient access to RT-11 filesystems on
CD-ROM's. Of course, it's also possible to burn ISO9660 CD-ROM's
with disk or tape images, and it is in fact I have made "mixed
format" CD-ROM's that have both a ISO9660 directory structure
(for access on a PC-clone or Unix/VMS workstation) and a PDP-11
directory structure (in the higher-numbered partitions of the CD-ROM.)
My question is: would it be worthwhile for me to package up
the PDP-11 freeware collection on multiple CD's (probably one CD for
RT-11,
one CD for RSTS/E, and two CD's for RSX-11 &
POS) and distribute them?
Would folks be willing to pay, say, $15 each for duplication and
distribution costs, or is this completely out of line? Of course,
the network-accessible archive at metalab.unc.edu will still be
available for free. While it's clear that CD-ROM is a convenient
distribution medium, it's also clear that most folks on the 'net are
cheapskates and won't pay a dime to get something they could download
for free, so it's not obvious that if I had a batch of CD-ROM's made up
that anyone would ever actually pay a nominal amount for them.
If anyone has any comments, experiences, suggestions, etc.,
I'm all ears!
--
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
9125
days inactive
9126
days old
12 comments
10 participants
participants (10)
-
cfandt＠netsync.net -
CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com -
dann＠greycat.com -
djenner＠halcyon.com -
emu＠ecubics.com -
healyzh＠aracnet.com -
mcguire＠neurotica.com -
mikeford＠netwiz.net -
pechter＠pechter.dyndns.org -
Tony.Eros＠machm.org