3 Mar
2021
3 Mar
'21
10:23 a.m.
Looking for suggestions on hobbyist PIC setup. So far I have just used
Arduino type direct-connect microcontrollers (back in the day
programmers for general devices were expensive), but the currently
existing SGI proprietary system to PS/2 keyboard adapter is PIC (and I
have a couple different systems that all use my single SGI proprietary
keyboard).
Any gotchas with the PICKit-3 clones out there? I have the feeling that
sticking with PIC would be better than trying to port to Arduino, and
imagine that as things continue to age there will be more applications
for interfaces. Any better but still cheapish alternatives for
programming?
3 Mar
3 Mar
10:47 a.m.
New subject: PIC programmers? More generic programmer? Port?
Any gotchas with the PICKit-3 clones out there? I have
the feeling
that sticking with PIC would be better than trying to port to
Arduino, and imagine that as things continue to age there will be
more applications for interfaces. Any better but still cheapish
alternatives for programming?
IIRC the PK-3 doesn't get any new device support at this point.
Existing stuff continues to work. Depending on the nature of the
devices you might want to use in the future, it might be worth
considering a PK-4.
I actually do very little PIC stuff, so I can't speak to which devices,
how Microchip removes support from their software, etc. and recommend
salt grains here.
De
1:26 p.m.
New subject: PIC programmers? More generic programmer? Port?
On 3/3/21 10:47 AM, Dennis Boone via cctalk wrote:
I've used a PK-2 on PIC32MX devices. I used MPLAB for a time, but
OpenOCD also supports it. After all, it's JTAG, sort of.
What chips specifically? On the PIC12 through PIC18 devices, I used the
JDM cheapie with PonyProg. Of course, you need a real serial port--I
don't know of a USB one will work.
Personally, you might find it more interesting to go with some of the
STM32 ARM Cortex MCUs. Many are 5V tolerant and will probably be around
for a long time. There's even an Arduino suite or two for the low-end
ones.
--Chuck
Any gotchas
with the PICKit-3 clones out there? I have the feeling
that sticking with PIC would be better than trying to port to
Arduino, and imagine that as things continue to age there will be
more applications for interfaces. Any better but still cheapish
alternatives for programming?
IIRC the PK-3 doesn't get any new device support at this point.
Existing stuff continues to work. Depending on the nature of the
devices you might want to use in the future, it might be worth
considering a PK-4. 
2:15 p.m.
New subject: PIC programmers? More generic programmer? Port?
I was a field application engineer for Microchip from 2008-2011, making
POCs for big name customers in the bay area using 8, 16 and 32-bit PICs.
You will likely find that Microchip support is awful, even if their
products are pretty neat. There was an Arduino port for PICs called
"ChipKit" but I don't know if that's still being developed.
The PicKit 3 is decent, if pretty slow. The ICD3 and later versions are
good. MPLAB X is excellent IMO. I should still hold a design partner
discount so if you want to get some tools, contact me offline and I'll see
if I can save you some money.
That all said, I'm a huge fan of the STM32 ARM devices and the community is
nearly as good as Nordic, and what Atmel used to be before it was acquired
by Microchip.
--
Anders Nelson
On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 4:26 PM Chuck Guzis via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
wrote:
On 3/3/21 10:47 AM, Dennis Boone via cctalk wrote:
I've used a PK-2 on PIC32MX devices. I used MPLAB for a time, but
OpenOCD also supports it. After all, it's JTAG, sort of.
What chips specifically? On the PIC12 through PIC18 devices, I used the
JDM cheapie with PonyProg. Of course, you need a real serial port--I
don't know of a USB one will work.
Personally, you might find it more interesting to go with some of the
STM32 ARM Cortex MCUs. Many are 5V tolerant and will probably be around
for a long time. There's even an Arduino suite or two for the low-end
ones.
--Chuck
Any
gotchas with the PICKit-3 clones out there? I have the feeling
that sticking with PIC would be better than trying to port to
Arduino, and imagine that as things continue to age there will be
more applications for interfaces. Any better but still cheapish
alternatives for programming?
IIRC the PK-3 doesn't get any new device support at this point.
Existing stuff continues to work. Depending on the nature of the
devices you might want to use in the future, it might be worth
considering a PK-4.
3:27 p.m.
New subject: PIC programmers? More generic programmer? Port?
On 3/3/21 2:15 PM, Anders Nelson wrote:
I was a field application?engineer for Microchip from
2008-2011, making
POCs for big name customers in the bay area using 8, 16 and 32-bit PICs.
You will?likely find that Microchip support is awful, even if their
products are pretty neat. There was an Arduino port for PICs called
"ChipKit" but I don't know if that's still being developed.
The PicKit 3 is decent, if pretty slow. The ICD3 and later versions are
good. MPLAB X is excellent IMO. I should still hold a design partner
discount so if you want to get some tools, contact me offline and I'll
see if I can save you some money.
That all said, I'm a huge fan of the STM32 ARM devices and the community
is nearly as good as Nordic, and what Atmel used to be before it was
acquired by Microchip.
I remember getting a PIC32 Uno32 from Digilent (long given away) that
featured a Arduino-compatible library. It was interesting for the time.
https://reference.digilentinc.com/reference/microprocessor/uno32/start
Digilent (wisely) seems to have dropped the MCU line of boards
completely and now concentrates on FPGA.
But the array of ARM-Cortex boards out there is wonderful. I've still
got a parts box full of various AVR and PIC MCUs, but nowadays, I find
myself reaching for an STM32 ARM. STM's documentation can be daunting,
if you're interested in things at the low level, however. 1000 pages
seems to be about the minimum ante in terms of technical documentation,
but then there's a lot of functionality built into those bits of fused sand.
--Chuck
5 Mar
5 Mar
5:39 p.m.
New subject: PIC programmers? More generic programmer? Port?
On Wed, 2021-03-03 at 17:15 -0500, Anders Nelson via cctalk wrote:
I was a field application engineer for Microchip from
2008-2011,
making
POCs for big name customers in the bay area using 8, 16 and 32-bit
PICs.
You will likely find that Microchip support is awful, even if their
products are pretty neat. There was an Arduino port for PICs called
"ChipKit" but I don't know if that's still being developed.
The PicKit 3 is decent, if pretty slow. The ICD3 and later versions
are
good. MPLAB X is excellent IMO. I should still hold a design partner
discount so if you want to get some tools, contact me offline and
I'll see
if I can save you some money.
That all said, I'm a huge fan of the STM32 ARM devices and the
community is
nearly as good as Nordic, and what Atmel used to be before it was
acquired
by Microchip.
--
Anders Nelson
Hmm. Well sounds like it might be better to disassemble the existing
provided PIC blobs and re-code for something else. Looks like the board
is basically MAX232 level shifters and then the PICs to change the
keyboard encoding, so theoretically any MCU should work.
6 Mar
6 Mar
9:59 a.m.
New subject: PIC programmers? More generic programmer? Port?
Realized I didn't post the project I was looking at just in case others
were interested:
https://tudl1910.home.xs4all.nl/rshockley.dyndns.org/indigo.htm
Converter to use PS/2 keyboards with SGI Indigo, Onyx, Crimson and 4D
series machines.
Not my page, not my project, not my work (yet).
10:13 a.m.
New subject: PIC programmers? More generic programmer? Port?
On 3/6/21 9:59 AM, Scott Quinn via cctalk wrote:
Realized I didn't post the project I was looking
at just in case others
were interested:
https://tudl1910.home.xs4all.nl/rshockley.dyndns.org/indigo.htm
Converter to use PS/2 keyboards with SGI Indigo, Onyx, Crimson and 4D
series machines.
Not my page, not my project, not my work (yet).
Way overkill for the job, IMHO. Drop the crystal and use a smaller 8
pin PIC12 MCU--the internal RC clock is more than good enough.
It should be possible to do the same using a Blue Pill cheapie and
MAX232 level shifter. Still if this is a one-off, I doubt that it
would matter to the user.
FWIW, I did the PC AT/PS2 to PC XT keyboard converter years ago using
the cheapest PIC I could find--a 12F629--and I still had program memory
left over. A cap, a diode and a resistor were the only external components.
--Chuck
7 Mar
7 Mar
9:20 a.m.
New subject: PIC programmers? More generic programmer? Port?
On Sat, 2021-03-06 at 10:13 -0800, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
It should be possible to do the same using a Blue Pill cheapie and
MAX232 level shifter. Still if this is a one-off, I doubt that it
would matter to the user.
That's what I had started thinking. Use the STM32 board with the built
in 3 UARTS (yes, I know you can bit-bang, but why not use em if you got
em?) and one of those cheapie DC-DC switching converter boards plus a
MAX232. Don't need to get any expensive programming stuff then (yeah,
$65 is a great deal compared to what they were in the '90s, but still
it is COVIDtime), and less outlay for supplies. Easy for others to make
too.
Have a question - for PS/2 the power-on handshake the byte sent is 0xAA
per my reference. The keyboard(7) manpage gets a little coy here for
the IRIS keyboard, with a unnamed first byte and a second byte that
sends keyboard configuration information. Anyone know what that first
byte on the IRIS side is? I want to have the adapter do the handshaking
if possible to enable KVM use.
FWIW, I did the PC AT/PS2 to PC XT keyboard converter years ago
using
the cheapest PIC I could find--a 12F629--and I still had program
memory
left over. A cap, a diode and a resistor were the only external
components.
--Chuck
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anders.k.nelson＠gmail.com -
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