8 Nov
2001
8 Nov
'01
7:12 a.m.
I never had problems as you describe, nor have I ever
heard of anyone
needing to adjust the alignment of an Apple disk drive.
As far as I know, there is no procedure in the Disk ][ manual for aligning
a drive, and as far as I know, there is no reason for needing one.
I don't know if it was alignment (I think it was speed), but I had a
program that you would run, and you would adjust the drive via a small
pot IIRC until the program said it was correct (again, I think it was
speed).
I DO know that as my Drive ][ drives got older, I found I had to do this
operation more and more to keep them functioning (when it needed
adjustment, it would just fail to read a disk).
I also used the Drive ][ primairly stacked next to my Apple ][+, with the
monitor on top, or on a shelf just above (when I moved to a color TV with
line in as a monitor, as it was just too heavy to safely place on top of
the Apple). I never had problems (other than speed issues, or once a game
wrote high scores to the disk despite being write protected).
My company had a number of Apple II+'s with drive II's stacked on the
Apple with the monitor on top of the drives, and non ever had a problem.
I used an Apple IIe with a dual drive box that sat on top of the Apple,
and the monitor (IIRC, greenscreen Apple branded) sat on top of the
drives. Never had a problem with that setup. (and the previous owner only
ever used it that way for years, and had no problems).
And I am probably a good test of real world abuse to the Apple Drive ][
drives, as I was just a wee child, and I didn't follow any rules that I
probably should have. (I always put the disk in the drive, closed it, and
turned on the computer... I would pull disks out, and replace them while
the drive was reading or writing, I would power off the computer or reset
it during read/write, I didn't use dust sleaves, I touched the disk media
directly, wrote with ball point pens on the disk labels AFTER putting
them on the disk, I used cheap no name brand bulk disks of any kind, and
used a hole punch to make them double sided... and at one point, even
stapled a peice of paper to a disk... and that staple is the ONLY time I
can think of that I screwed up a disk... two holes and a long dent will
do that. So I would have to say, the Apple II disk system was pretty
freakin' stable and reliable to put up with all my abuse)
-chris
<http://www.mythtech.net>
8 Nov
8 Nov
7:36 a.m.
Here's what you need to do to get reliable results from Apple drives:
And I am probably a good test of real world abuse to
the Apple Drive ][
drives, as I was just a wee child, and I didn't follow any rules that I
probably should have. (I always put the disk in the drive, closed it, and
turned on the computer... I would pull disks out, and replace them while
the drive was reading or writing, I would power off the computer or reset
it during read/write, I didn't use dust sleaves, I touched the disk media
directly, wrote with ball point pens on the disk labels AFTER putting
them on the disk, I used cheap no name brand bulk disks of any kind, and
used a hole punch to make them double sided... and at one point, even
stapled a peice of paper to a disk... and that staple is the ONLY time I
can think of that I screwed up a disk... two holes and a long dent will
do that. So I would have to say, the Apple II disk system was pretty
freakin' stable and reliable to put up with all my abuse)
10:45 a.m.
Most of the problems that come along with the Apple][ disk subsystem can be
avoided with a little care. For example, the problem I mentinoed about leaving
the CRT turned off when I leave the computer sitting for a while can be avoided
by opening the floppy drives when I do that. I imagine that if one's VERY
careful and fastidious about keeping everything clean and orderly, which I'm not
likely to do, some of the other problems can be avoided. Combine that with
weekly cleaning and adjustment of the drives, and most of the problems will be
gone. I'm not likely to do those things either, though, since the other systems
I routinely use don't require it.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris" <mythtech(a)Mac.com>
To: "Classic Computer" <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2001 11:12 AM
Subject: Re: Apple Floppy Drives (was: More Apple Pimpers)
I never had
problems as you describe, nor have I ever heard of anyone
needing to adjust the alignment of an Apple disk drive.
As far as I know, there is no procedure in the Disk ][ manual for aligning
a drive, and as far as I know, there is no reason for needing one.
I don't know if it was alignment (I think it was speed), but I had a
program that you would run, and you would adjust the drive via a small
pot IIRC until the program said it was correct (again, I think it was
speed).
I DO know that as my Drive ][ drives got older, I found I had to do this
operation more and more to keep them functioning (when it needed
adjustment, it would just fail to read a disk).
I also used the Drive ][ primairly stacked next to my Apple ][+, with the
monitor on top, or on a shelf just above (when I moved to a color TV with
line in as a monitor, as it was just too heavy to safely place on top of
the Apple). I never had problems (other than speed issues, or once a game
wrote high scores to the disk despite being write protected).
My company had a number of Apple II+'s with drive II's stacked on the
Apple with the monitor on top of the drives, and non ever had a problem.
I used an Apple IIe with a dual drive box that sat on top of the Apple,
and the monitor (IIRC, greenscreen Apple branded) sat on top of the
drives. Never had a problem with that setup. (and the previous owner only
ever used it that way for years, and had no problems).
And I am probably a good test of real world abuse to the Apple Drive ][
drives, as I was just a wee child, and I didn't follow any rules that I
probably should have. (I always put the disk in the drive, closed it, and
turned on the computer... I would pull disks out, and replace them while
the drive was reading or writing, I would power off the computer or reset
it during read/write, I didn't use dust sleaves, I touched the disk media
directly, wrote with ball point pens on the disk labels AFTER putting
them on the disk, I used cheap no name brand bulk disks of any kind, and
used a hole punch to make them double sided... and at one point, even
stapled a peice of paper to a disk... and that staple is the ONLY time I
can think of that I screwed up a disk... two holes and a long dent will
do that. So I would have to say, the Apple II disk system was pretty
freakin' stable and reliable to put up with all my abuse)
-chris
<http://www.mythtech.net>
10 Nov
10 Nov
2:33 p.m.
On Thu, 8 Nov 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote:
do that. I imagine that if one's VERY careful and
fastidious about
keeping everything clean and orderly, which I'm not likely to do, some
of the other problems can be avoided. Combine that with weekly
Ok, so the real facts start to emerge. Finally. As I predicted.
cleaning and adjustment of the drives, and most of the
problems will
be gone. I'm not likely to do those things either, though, since the
other systems I routinely use don't require it.
So in other words, the Disk ][ was fine. It was you that was defective?
That's clearly evident.
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
3:34 p.m.
do that. I
imagine that if one's VERY careful and fastidious about
keeping everything clean and orderly, which I'm not likely to do, some
of the other problems can be avoided. Combine that with weekly
Ok, so the real facts start to emerge. Finally. As I predicted.
cleaning and adjustment of the drives, and most
of the problems will
be gone. I'm not likely to do those things either, though, since the
other systems I routinely use don't require it.
So in other words, the Disk ][ was fine. It was you that was defective?
That's clearly evident.
6:01 p.m.
On Sat, 10 Nov 2001, Eric Dittman wrote:
It sounds like you are agreeing with Dick that the
Disk ][ required
special handling (like weekly cleaning and adjustment).
I would agree that ANY disk system would benefit from a weekly head
cleaning.
However, I was pointing out that Dick is the one in need of urgent head
cleaning.
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
6:46 p.m.
Hey! I just got a haircut. What more do you want?
BTW, my 6502 homebrew, not to mention the several CP/M boxes, all with 8"
drives, didn't need frequent head cleaning or any other sort of maintenance more
often than, perhaps twice a year. Their environment was pretty clean, ceratinly
cleaner than what I use now, and none of the drives I bought brand new ever
needed alignment. I was occasionally given to buying second-hand hardware,
though, and that's how I got familiar with cleaning and alignment of disk
drives.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sellam Ismail" <foo(a)siconic.com>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2001 10:01 PM
Subject: Re: Apple Floppy Drives (was: More Apple Pimpers)
On Sat, 10 Nov 2001, Eric Dittman wrote:
It sounds like you are agreeing with Dick that
the Disk ][ required
special handling (like weekly cleaning and adjustment).
I would agree that ANY disk system would benefit from a weekly head
cleaning.
However, I was pointing out that Dick is the one in need of urgent head
cleaning.
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
2:17 p.m.
On Thu, 8 Nov 2001, Chris wrote:
That was a speed adjustment, and usually one used Copy ][+. There was
also a procedure documented in the Disk ][ manual for using a strobe light
(I think) against the striped pattern sticker affixed to the drive belt
disc inside the drive. When the bars look as if they're standing still
then the drive is at optimal speed.
As far as I
know, there is no procedure in the Disk ][ manual for aligning
a drive, and as far as I know, there is no reason for needing one.
I don't know if it was alignment (I think it was speed), but I had a
program that you would run, and you would adjust the drive via a small
pot IIRC until the program said it was correct (again, I think it was
speed). I DO know that as my Drive ][ drives got older, I
found I had to do
this operation more and more to keep them functioning (when it needed
adjustment, it would just fail to read a disk).
I've only had one or two drives out of literally dozens that wouldn't hold
their rotation speed. In this case, there was something else wrong with
the drive that was beyond my troubleshooting skills so I'd mark the drive
as bad and not use it.
I also used the Drive ][ primairly stacked next to my
Apple ][+, with
the monitor on top, or on a shelf just above (when I moved to a color
TV with line in as a monitor, as it was just too heavy to safely place
on top of the Apple). I never had problems (other than speed issues,
or once a game wrote high scores to the disk despite being write
protected).
You're write protect sensor broke off somehow. This happened to me once,
and occasionally I'll get a drive that has this problem. Relatively easy
to fix.
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
11 Nov
11 Nov
7:44 a.m.
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9:59 a.m.
On Sun, 11 Nov 2001, Tony Duell wrote:
For most makes of disk drive, you look at that label
under a
mains-operated fluorescent lamp. There are 2 circles of bars, for 50Hz
and 60Hz mains. Twrak the preset until the appropriate circle looks
stationary. I can well believe the Apple Disk II uses the same
procedure.
That was it. I can't remember where I read the procedure. If it's not in
the DOS manual then I don't know where I read it.
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
8290
days inactive
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9 comments
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participants (6)
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ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
cisin＠xenosoft.com -
dittman＠dittman.net -
edick＠idcomm.com -
foo＠siconic.com -
mythtech＠Mac.com