22 May
2017
22 May
'17
10:44 a.m.
OK, go ahead and roll your eyes at me, but I was Dayton Hamvention last
weekend, and there was a lonely Teletype Model 43 sitting in the flea
market (on the ground, no less) for free, and so I decided I needed it
in my life.
I know it's not considered a "true" teletype, because it's essentially a
little uC, a KB, and a little dot matrix printer, but I will wear the
stigma of shame of not owning a "proper" mechanical model 33. I got
home last night, and the unit fires up and works (well, in local mode.
Docs claim it is rs232 out the back, but could not coax anything from my
PC to it yet), though the ribbon has seen better days. I used a bit of
WD-40 to free up the ink, and so things are legible now.
Not sure I need help yet (did not do much debugging yet on rs232), but I
see the ribbons are no longer available. Thus, I am wondering if anyone
has a spare one for it, or knows of someone who can restore this ribbon
(looks like it needs a new polyester ribbon and the internal foam roller
looks like it will fall apart if I try to rinse it out and re-ink it)
I know it's a long shot to ask, but I figure there was no harm in
inquiring, and I believe making a home for a model 43 is not entirely
without value. :-)
Jim
--
Jim Brain
brain at jbrain.com
www.jbrain.com
22 May
22 May
11:04 a.m.
If someone in the Pacific NW would like to have one, I'm in Portland and go
to Seattle from time to time.
Would like to at least see of it can find a home
https://goo.gl/photos/e2J5vHDGB6UtVFS49
The tractor feed belts have gone to plasticizer heaven
On Mon, May 22, 2017 at 10:44 AM, Jim Brain via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
OK, go ahead and roll your eyes at me, but I was
Dayton Hamvention last
weekend, and there was a lonely Teletype Model 43 sitting in the flea
market (on the ground, no less) for free, and so I decided I needed it in
my life.
I know it's not considered a "true" teletype, because it's essentially
a
little uC, a KB, and a little dot matrix printer, but I will wear the
stigma of shame of not owning a "proper" mechanical model 33. I got home
last night, and the unit fires up and works (well, in local mode. Docs
claim it is rs232 out the back, but could not coax anything from my PC to
it yet), though the ribbon has seen better days. I used a bit of WD-40 to
free up the ink, and so things are legible now.
Not sure I need help yet (did not do much debugging yet on rs232), but I
see the ribbons are no longer available. Thus, I am wondering if anyone has
a spare one for it, or knows of someone who can restore this ribbon (looks
like it needs a new polyester ribbon and the internal foam roller looks
like it will fall apart if I try to rinse it out and re-ink it)
I know it's a long shot to ask, but I figure there was no harm in
inquiring, and I believe making a home for a model 43 is not entirely
without value. :-)
Jim
--
Jim Brain
brain at jbrain.com
www.jbrain.com
26 May
26 May
8:27 a.m.
I'm in Seattle and am very tempted by this....
--Jason
On 05/22/2017 11:04 AM, Pete Lancashire via cctalk wrote:
If someone in the Pacific NW would like to have one,
I'm in Portland and go
to Seattle from time to time.
Would like to at least see of it can find a home
https://goo.gl/photos/e2J5vHDGB6UtVFS49
The tractor feed belts have gone to plasticizer heaven
On Mon, May 22, 2017 at 10:44 AM, Jim Brain via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
> OK, go ahead and roll your eyes at me, but I was Dayton Hamvention last
> weekend, and there was a lonely Teletype Model 43 sitting in the flea
> market (on the ground, no less) for free, and so I decided I needed it in
> my life.
>
> I know it's not considered a "true" teletype, because it's
essentially a
> little uC, a KB, and a little dot matrix printer, but I will wear the
> stigma of shame of not owning a "proper" mechanical model 33. I got home
> last night, and the unit fires up and works (well, in local mode. Docs
> claim it is rs232 out the back, but could not coax anything from my PC to
> it yet), though the ribbon has seen better days. I used a bit of WD-40 to
> free up the ink, and so things are legible now.
>
> Not sure I need help yet (did not do much debugging yet on rs232), but I
> see the ribbons are no longer available. Thus, I am wondering if anyone has
> a spare one for it, or knows of someone who can restore this ribbon (looks
> like it needs a new polyester ribbon and the internal foam roller looks
> like it will fall apart if I try to rinse it out and re-ink it)
>
> I know it's a long shot to ask, but I figure there was no harm in
> inquiring, and I believe making a home for a model 43 is not entirely
> without value. :-)
>
> Jim
>
> --
> Jim Brain
> brain at jbrain.com
> www.jbrain.com
>
>
>
22 May
22 May
11:16 a.m.
On May 22, 2017, at 1:44 PM, Jim Brain via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
OK, go ahead and roll your eyes at me, but I was Dayton Hamvention last weekend, and
there was a lonely Teletype Model 43 sitting in the flea market (on the ground, no less)
for free, and so I decided I needed it in my life.
I know it's not considered a "true" teletype, because it's essentially
a little uC, a KB, and a little dot matrix printer, but I will wear the stigma of shame of
not owning a "proper" mechanical model 33. I got home last night, and the unit
fires up and works (well, in local mode. Docs claim it is rs232 out the back, but could
not coax anything from my PC to it yet),
Does your PC have real RS232? A lot of "RS232" ports are serial ports, but not
with correct RS232 levels. If you have "TTL RS232" [sic] it won't work with
an actual RS232 port.
It may also be RS232-like, as in bipolar signals, but not high enough output voltages to
be compliant. I think modern RS232 receivers tend to accept lower signal levels than the
minimum permitted by the spec; older ones may be less forgiving.
Finally, check your DTE vs. DCE orientation; you may need a null modem. (Or you may not
want a null modem.)
paul
12:26 p.m.
On Mon, 22 May 2017, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:
Does your PC have real RS232? A lot of
"RS232" ports are serial ports,
but not with correct RS232 levels. If you have "TTL RS232" [sic] it
won't work with an actual RS232 port.
The "CLASSIC" example: manager of the Radio Shack Computer Center told me
that the TRS80 Model 1 Expansion Interface RS-232 board was, "by
definition" completely "standard" for RS-232, since "RS-232"
stood for
"RADIO SHACK 232".
12:57 p.m.
On Mon, 22 May 2017, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
On Mon, 22 May 2017, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:
My jaw would not only have dropped at that statement, but it likely
would've broken the hinge as well.
It reminds me of the time a cow-orker went to the local Radio Shack
looking for a GasFET and was told he'd have better luck at an auto parts
store.
g.
--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies.
ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!
Does your PC have real RS232? A lot of
"RS232" ports are serial ports, but
not with correct RS232 levels. If you have "TTL RS232" [sic] it won't work
with an actual RS232 port.
The "CLASSIC" example: manager of the Radio Shack Computer Center told me
that the TRS80 Model 1 Expansion Interface RS-232 board was, "by definition"
completely "standard" for RS-232, since "RS-232" stood for
"RADIO SHACK 232".
1:03 p.m.
I had an employee of an electronics store tell me that the IBM modem software on the
5.25" floppy for Windows would work fine on my Macintosh... in the days long before
Macintosh systems used non-Motorola processors.
That was a fun 'discussion'.
From: "cctalk" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
To: "Fred Cisin" <cisin at xenosoft.com>, "cctalk" <cctalk at
classiccmp.org>
Sent: Monday, May 22, 2017 12:57:52 PM
Subject: Re: Teletype 43
On Mon, 22 May 2017, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
On Mon, 22 May 2017, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:
My jaw would not only have dropped at that statement, but it likely
would've broken the hinge as well.
It reminds me of the time a cow-orker went to the local Radio Shack
looking for a GasFET and was told he'd have better luck at an auto parts
store.
g.
--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies.
ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!
Does your PC have real RS232? A lot of
"RS232" ports are serial ports, but
not with correct RS232 levels. If you have "TTL RS232" [sic] it won't work
with an actual RS232 port.
The "CLASSIC" example: manager of the Radio Shack Computer Center told me
that the TRS80 Model 1 Expansion Interface RS-232 board was, "by definition"
completely "standard" for RS-232, since "RS-232" stood for
"RADIO SHACK 232".
1:18 p.m.
Not exactly computer related, but many years ago I was looking for a new slide projector.
I went into Dixons, at the time a UK electronics and photo store.
A young man who said he knew everything about projectors said he would show me the
device..
After asking a couple of questions, and receiving replies I knew from reading around, were
wrong,
I asked him how easy it was to change the bulb. After 15 enjoyable minutes during which he
removed every component, apart from the bulb, (well I enjoyed them, but struggled to keep
a straight face)
I said thank you, it was obviously too hard for me, leaving him to re-assemble the thing.
Not sure how long he took, I didn't wait to find out..
I then bought the same model from another store (Boots for the UK readers) who were IMHO
equally incompetent, but they offered a free 5-Year guarantee...
.. My wife said I was being cruel, and I said, no, all he had to do was admit he
didn't know how to change the bulb and find some one who could...
Dave
G4UGM
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Norman
Jaffe via cctalk
Sent: 22 May 2017 21:04
To: cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: Teletype 43
I had an employee of an electronics store tell me that the IBM modem
software on the 5.25" floppy for Windows would work fine on my
Macintosh... in the days long before Macintosh systems used non-Motorola
processors.
That was a fun 'discussion'.
From: "cctalk" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
To: "Fred Cisin" <cisin at xenosoft.com>, "cctalk" <cctalk
at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Monday, May 22, 2017 12:57:52 PM
Subject: Re: Teletype 43
On Mon, 22 May 2017, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
My jaw would not only have dropped at that
statement, but it likely would've
broken the hinge as well.
It reminds me of the time a cow-orker went to the local Radio Shack looking
for a GasFET and was told he'd have better luck at an auto parts store.
g.
--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies.
ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value
database for the masses, not the classes.
http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!
On Mon, 22 May 2017, Paul Koning via cctalk
wrote:
definition"
Does your PC have real RS232? A lot of
"RS232" ports are serial
ports, but not with correct RS232 levels. If you have "TTL RS232"
[sic] it won't work with an actual RS232 port.
The "CLASSIC" example: manager of the Radio Shack Computer Center told
me that the TRS80 Model 1 Expansion Interface RS-232 board was, "by completely "standard" for RS-232, since
"RS-232" stood for "RADIO SHACK
232".
2:43 p.m.
>> Does your PC have real RS232? A lot of
"RS232" ports are serial ports,
> The "CLASSIC" example: manager of the Radio Shack Computer Center told me
> that the TRS80 Model 1 Expansion Interface RS-232 board was, "by
> definition" completely "standard" for RS-232, since "RS-232"
stood for
> "RADIO SHACK 232".
On Mon, 22 May 2017, geneb wrote:
My jaw would not only have dropped at that statement,
but it likely would've
broken the hinge as well.
It reminds me of the time a cow-orker went to the local Radio Shack looking
for a GasFET and was told he'd have better luck at an auto parts store.
If he had been joking, or poking fun at the way Radio Shack sometimes did
things differently, then it would have been pretty good.
But, he was serious, and simply passing on something he had been taught at
one of their management session.
6:41 p.m.
On Mon, May 22, 2017 at 2:16 PM, Paul Koning via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
> On May 22, 2017, at 1:44 PM, Jim Brain via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
> OK, go ahead and roll your eyes at me, but I was Dayton Hamvention last weekend,
> and there was a lonely Teletype Model 43 sitting in the flea market (on the ground,
no less)
> for free, and so I decided I needed it in my life.
No eye-rolling here. Nice find!
> I got home last night, and the unit fires up and
works (well, in local mode. Docs claim
> it is rs232 out the back, but could not coax anything from my PC to it yet),
Do you have a "traffic light"? I find them invaluable for diagnosing
handshaking and TxD/RxD swaps.
Does your PC have real RS232? A lot of
"RS232" ports are serial ports, but not with correct
RS232 levels. If you have "TTL RS232" [sic] it won't work with an actual
RS232 port.
If you are testing from a laptop, this could be it. Some years back,
I joined our local hackerspace, in part, to get some life out of a
Bridgeport Series II (driven by an M7264 KD11-F processor board) and
after building my own round Tyco serial cable because the former owner
of the Bridgeport was, in his own estimation, no good at soldering,
was initially unable to get any commands to work from my Linux laptop
from a "real" serial port or from a USB
dongle.
What worked was a serial port on a desktop. The first try.
I do know, from examining the boards when we scrapped the Bridgeport,
it uses the ancient and venerable 1488/1489 pair. I've seen those
work with "modern" serial ports, so I'm unsure why this device had
problems, but it did. No dongle or laptop tested was functional with
the Bridgeport.
-ethan
9:57 p.m.
On 5/22/2017 8:41 PM, Ethan Dicks via cctalk wrote:
Do you have a "traffic light"? I find them invaluable for diagnosing
handshaking and TxD/RxD swaps.
Yep. constant low on TX.
What worked was a serial port on a desktop. The first try.
It's entirely
possible, but I put a scope on the TX line, and I see no
activity at all with the unit in DATA or TERM READY mode. The DATA LED
blinks, so I think I need to signal the Model 43 that it is "connected".
As has been suggested, I joined GreenKeys and asked if someone has a
similar setup that works, so I can replicate.
Worst case is that the driver board has issues, which at least will
narrow down my search.
Jim
11:07 p.m.
You probably need a null modem cable. As a test try linking 4+5 (rts/cts) and 6+8+20
(dsr/cd/dtr) on the tty plug/socket. (25 way pins)
Then when the terminal brings dtr up (data terminal ready) it also brings up dsr (data set
ready) and cd (carrier detect) so it looks like the modem is connected.
Same way when it uses rts (request to send) it also enables cts (clear to send) so the
modem has given permission to send data..
Dave
G4ugm
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jim Brain
via cctalk
Sent: 23 May 2017 05:58
To: Ethan Dicks <ethan.dicks at gmail.com>; General Discussion: On-Topic and
Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org>; Paul Koning
<paulkoning at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Teletype 43
On 5/22/2017 8:41 PM, Ethan Dicks via cctalk wrote:
Do you have a "traffic light"? I find them invaluable for diagnosing
handshaking and TxD/RxD swaps.
Yep. constant low on TX.
What worked was a serial port on a desktop. The first try.
It's entirely
possible, but I put a scope on the TX line, and I see no activity at
all with the unit in DATA or TERM READY mode. The DATA LED blinks, so I
think I need to signal the Model 43 that it is "connected".
As has been suggested, I joined GreenKeys and asked if someone has a
similar setup that works, so I can replicate.
Worst case is that the driver board has issues, which at least will narrow
down my search.
Jim
23 May
23 May
6:20 p.m.
On 5/23/2017 1:07 AM, dave.g4ugm at gmail.com wrote:
You probably need a null modem cable.
I had one
(and used it), but not all null modem cables are evidently the
same :-) I soldered up a loopback as you suggested, and the unit
dropped into DATA MODE on startup. I then played with the signals. The
unit really does want DCD to be active, as just doing CTS/RTS, DTR/DSR,
and RX/TX did not do the trick. Evidently, my null modem cable I had
tested with previously does not connect DCD. Swapped out for a null
modem adapter (from our old now deceased friend Radio Shack) and the
unit works with a new Dell M4800 laptop (so "newer" style +-10V RS232
levels must be OK.
I appreciate the brain dusting. I should have known to try that, as I
spent years doing serial stuff and wrote tcpser, the Hayes Modem
emulator package for Linux/Windows. I even have a Telnet BBS cable
named after me. Sigh...
The printer ribbon has less life left in it than I anticipated, but a
list member is helping me, so it should be good to go after a deep
cleaning and a light oiling. I did notice the printhead starts to
stutter at times on long lines, but I *think* it's a function of the
damage to the ribbon, so we'll troubleshoot that only if it continues
after ribbon fixes.
The broomhandle looks to be working fine, but if there's a spare paper
roll pin and/or a platen knob out there looking for a home, let me know.
Jim
8:45 p.m.
On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 9:20 PM, Jim Brain via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
On 5/23/2017 1:07 AM, dave.g4ugm at gmail.com wrote:
Superb!
You probably need a null modem cable.
I had one (and used it), but not all null modem cables are evidently the
same :-) I soldered up a loopback as you suggested, and the unit dropped
into DATA MODE on startup. The printer ribbon has less life left in it than I
anticipated, but a list
member is helping me, so it should be good to go after a deep cleaning and a
light oiling.
Back in the day, there was a re-inking product, the Mac Inker. Since
those are not easy to dig up now, what options are there? Also,
because there's often plenty of pigment, what oil/solvents are good to
wrest some of that pigment back out of a dried ribbon?
-ethan
10:14 p.m.
On 5/23/2017 10:45 PM, Ethan Dicks wrote:
Back in the day, there was a re-inking product, the
Mac Inker.
I have a Re-inker, though not exactly like the Mac Inker, but the Model
43 has a built in "Mac Inker"-like inking system. It's a small loop of
ribbon with a large felt round ink pad in the cartridge. So, if I can
get some ink into the felt, I should be OK.
Since
those are not easy to dig up now, what options are there? Also,
because there's often plenty of pigment, what oil/solvents are good to
wrest some of that pigment back out of a dried ribbon?
That is a question I'd
like to determine. Google was little help
outside of calls to try WD40.
Jim
11:37 p.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jim Brain
via cctalk
Sent: 24 May 2017 06:14
To: Ethan Dicks <ethan.dicks at gmail.com>; General Discussion: On-Topic and
Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: Teletype 43
On 5/23/2017 10:45 PM, Ethan Dicks wrote:
Some have used stamp pad ink. Some stamp pad ink doesn't dry out..
Dave
Back in the day, there was a re-inking product,
the Mac Inker.
I have a Re-inker, though not exactly like the Mac Inker, but the
Model
43 has a built in "Mac Inker"-like inking system. It's a small loop of
ribbon
with a large felt round ink pad in the cartridge. So, if I can get some ink into
the felt, I should be OK.
Since
those are not easy to dig up now, what options are there? Also,
because there's often plenty of pigment, what oil/solvents are good to
wrest some of that pigment back out of a dried ribbon?
That is a question I'd
like to determine. Google was little help outside of calls
to try WD40.
Jim 
11:51 p.m.
On 5/23/2017 11:37 PM, Dave Wade G4UGM via cctalk wrote:
We WD40'ed ASR33 ribbons at the Computer Mini lab @UMR till the
material
was white and we were printing with residual WD40 on the fabric. On a
rebuild of the machine in question, we drained off 1/2 pint of oil from
the felt in the bottom, from both the ink operation, and just making it go.
Not sure why they didn't buy a new ribbon, but once it was rebuilt after
4 years of use, it printed fantastic quality print with a new ribbon.
I don't know the formulas for ink but it was persuaded to continue
printing with cloth / silk ribbons I've seen then and since.
thanks
Jim
Since
those are not easy to dig up now, what options are there? Also,
because there's often plenty of pigment, what oil/solvents are good to
wrest some of that pigment back out of a dried ribbon?
That is a question I'd
like to determine. Google was little help outside of calls
to try WD40.
24 May
24 May
5:26 a.m.
On May 23, 2017, at 9:20 PM, Jim Brain via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
On 5/23/2017 1:07 AM, dave.g4ugm at gmail.com wrote:
Great to hear of the progress.
You probably need a null modem cable.
I
had one (and used it), but not all null modem cables are evidently the same :-) I
soldered up a loopback as you suggested, and the unit dropped into DATA MODE on startup.
I then played with the signals. The unit really does want DCD to be active, as just doing
CTS/RTS, DTR/DSR, and RX/TX did not do the trick. Evidently, my null modem cable I had
tested with previously does not connect DCD. Swapped out for a null modem adapter (from
our old now deceased friend Radio Shack) and the unit works with a new Dell M4800 laptop
(so "newer" style +-10V RS232 levels must be OK. From what I remember and from what the Wikipedia
article mentions, +- 10 volt is certainly fine and RS232-compliant. I remember PCs that
used TTL levels (0 and +5 or so) which clearly is not valid (not to mention that TTL level
ICs are likely to fry when confronted with valid RS232 inputs such as -15 volts).
Your null modem experience makes sense. There are a bunch of different signals whose
meaning is often not clear, and older equipment is more likely to want all of them. CTS
is the main one, but while you might argue that DCD (carrier detect) shouldn't be
required, it isn't too surprising that a terminal might look for it.
paul
8:26 a.m.
On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 7:20 PM, Jim Brain via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org
wrote:
On 5/23/2017 1:07 AM, dave.g4ugm at gmail.com wrote:
The minimum legit voltage swing for RS-232 is supposed to be plus and minus
5 volts and the
maximum allowed voltage swing is plus and minus 25 volts. The problems
occur when gear didn't
bother to do the negative swing to minus 5 volts. Plus and Minus 10 volts
is more than adequate.
The printer ribbon has less life left in it than I anticipated, but a list
You probably need a null modem cable.
I had one (and used it), but not all null modem cables are evidently the
same :-) I soldered up a loopback as you suggested, and the unit dropped
into DATA MODE on startup. I then played with the signals. The unit
really does want DCD to be active, as just doing CTS/RTS, DTR/DSR, and
RX/TX did not do the trick. Evidently, my null modem cable I had tested
with previously does not connect DCD. Swapped out for a null modem adapter
(from our old now deceased friend Radio Shack) and the unit works with a
new Dell M4800 laptop (so "newer" style +-10V RS232 levels must be OK.
member is helping me, so it should be good to go after
a deep cleaning and
a light oiling. I did notice the printhead starts to stutter at times on
long lines, but I *think* it's a function of the damage to the ribbon, so
we'll troubleshoot that only if it continues after ribbon fixes.
The ribbon on my 43 is a reinking type. The ribbon loop is maybe 18
inches? I have a new in bag
ribbon which I am sure is also dried out. I used a drop of thin oil on the
reinking roller the last time
I messed with it and that seemed to work. You probably want to use
something that will lubricate
because the pins on the dot matrix print heads do need that to keep them
from rusting and wearing
out.
The "stutter" you mention is normal. The printer electronics buffers a few
characters during the slow
carriage return and prints slightly faster than 30cps so when a new line is
started it goes at full speed
until the buffer is empty at which point it goes into the stutter mode.
This eliminated the need to send
nulls after a carriage return that was necessary on the earlier purely
mechanical printers.
--
Doug Ingraham
PDP-8 SN 1175
23 May
23 May
6:49 a.m.
On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 12:57 AM, Jim Brain <brain at jbrain.com> wrote:
On 5/22/2017 8:41 PM, Ethan Dicks via cctalk wrote:
Not a positive sign.
Do you have a "traffic light"? I find
them invaluable for diagnosing
handshaking and TxD/RxD swaps.
Yep. constant low on TX. It's entirely possible, but I put a scope on the
TX line, and I see no
activity at all with the unit in DATA or TERM READY mode. The DATA LED
blinks, so I think I need to signal the Model 43 that it is "connected".
If it needs hardware handshaking to work, there are a number of
diagrams out there for how to wire the pins together to make the UART
think it's always OK to send.
One example is:
"Connect pins 8 and 7 (i.e. CTS drives RTS)
Connect pins 1, 4, 6 This should maintain the DTR line in the correct
state, by connecting it to DCD and DSR"
It depends on DCE vs DTE and how the vendor wired up their port, but
it's going to be along those lines.
As has been suggested, I joined GreenKeys and asked if
someone has a similar
setup that works, so I can replicate.
Handy.
Worst case is that the driver board has issues, which
at least will narrow
down my search.
Indeed. It could be the drivers/receivers at the edge of the circuit.
I've had to replace them on occasion when restoring a new-to-me
device.
With a traffic light and an o-scope, it should be easy enough to see
into things - could be cabling, could be a bad IC. Not seeing TxD
wiggle when you send chars is a pretty fundamental issue.
-ethan
6:22 p.m.
On 5/23/2017 8:49 AM, Ethan Dicks wrote:
Not a positive sign.
Dodged a bullet. Model 43 needs RTS, DTR, AND DCD to be
active to drop
into DATA MODE. Initial null modem cable does not connect DCD to DTR.
Small fail. I'll have to mark that cable.
Now, to decide how best to present this unit at VCF-MW and/OR TANDY
Assembly.
Jim
3:45 a.m.
On 23.05.2017 03:41, Ethan Dicks via cctalk wrote:
The first thing I thought of. Everybody needs one.
And 25/9-Adapters in
both directions, null modem cables and gender changers - then you get
everything running. Ok, add some sub d connectors to make weirdly wired
adapters if nothing helps.
No eye-rolling here. Nice find!
Here the same. Perhaps not the most wanted device
- but... better have
than need...
> I got home
last night, and the unit fires up and works (well, in local mode. Docs claim
> it is rs232 out the back, but could not coax anything from my PC to it yet),
Do you have a "traffic light"? I find them invaluable for diagnosing
handshaking and TxD/RxD swaps. > Does your PC have real RS232? A lot of
"RS232" ports are serial ports, but not with correct
> RS232 levels. If you have "TTL RS232" [sic] it won't work with an
actual RS232 port.
I don't think that it's reasonable to check this problem
first. Of
course, can happen. But more likely you have a null modem problem.
Keep in mind that "TXD" is the output of a DTE (Data Terminal
Equipment). TXD is therefore the input (!) of a DCE (Data Communication
Equipment aka modem).
PC RS-232 ports send on TXD because they consider themselves to be a
terminal. And a teletype IS actually a terminal. So you would need to at
least cross wires 2 and 3 (RXD/TXD) using a Null modem. If you want
hardware handshake, the same applies to DTR and CTS.
Good luck :-)
22 May
22 May
1:20 p.m.
On 05/22/2017 10:44 AM, Jim Brain via cctalk wrote:
I know it's not considered a "true"
teletype, because it's
essentially a little uC, a KB, and a little dot matrix printer, but I
will wear the stigma of shame of not owning a "proper" mechanical
model 33. I got home last night, and the unit fires up and works
(well, in local mode. Docs claim it is rs232 out the back, but could
not coax anything from my PC to it yet), though the ribbon has seen
better days. I used a bit of WD-40 to free up the ink, and so things
are legible now.
It's still pretty significant. In particular, I was a fan of the
Dataspeed Model 40 line pritners. A tractor-feed band line printer,
that, IIRC, could run at about 150 LPM, but fit on a tabletop.
--Chuck
26 May
26 May
8:22 a.m.
No eye rolling here. I'd have picked it up too!
I would love to get my hands on hard-copy terminal.
(Still kicking myself for not grabbing a free DecWriter III several
years ago).
--Jason
On 05/22/2017 10:44 AM, Jim Brain via cctalk wrote:
OK, go ahead and roll your eyes at me, but I was
Dayton Hamvention
last weekend, and there was a lonely Teletype Model 43 sitting in the
flea market (on the ground, no less) for free, and so I decided I
needed it in my life.
I know it's not considered a "true" teletype, because it's essentially
a little uC, a KB, and a little dot matrix printer, but I will wear
the stigma of shame of not owning a "proper" mechanical model 33. I
got home last night, and the unit fires up and works (well, in local
mode. Docs claim it is rs232 out the back, but could not coax
anything from my PC to it yet), though the ribbon has seen better
days. I used a bit of WD-40 to free up the ink, and so things are
legible now.
Not sure I need help yet (did not do much debugging yet on rs232), but
I see the ribbons are no longer available. Thus, I am wondering if
anyone has a spare one for it, or knows of someone who can restore
this ribbon (looks like it needs a new polyester ribbon and the
internal foam roller looks like it will fall apart if I try to rinse
it out and re-ink it)
I know it's a long shot to ask, but I figure there was no harm in
inquiring, and I believe making a home for a model 43 is not entirely
without value. :-)
Jim
2768
days inactive
2772
days old
24 comments
13 participants
participants (13)
-
brain＠jbrain.com -
cclist＠sydex.com -
cisin＠xenosoft.com -
dave.g4ugm＠gmail.com -
dpi＠dustyoldcomputers.com -
ethan.dicks＠gmail.com -
geneb＠deltasoft.com -
hachti＠hachti.de -
jason＠smbfc.net -
jwsmail＠jwsss.com -
paulkoning＠comcast.net -
pete＠petelancashire.com -
turing＠shaw.ca