17 Mar
2010
17 Mar
'10
1:45 a.m.
You guys may already know of this, some perhaps not.
All the OS's are there, MSDOS, Concurent CPM, Windows 1 thru 3
Autocad, Orcad, Mathematica, Maple, Matlab
Graphics like Dr. Halo
Programming languages MASM, Turbo Pascal
http://vetusware.com
Randy
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your inbox.
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID27925::T:WLMTAGL:ON:…
17 Mar
17 Mar
1:53 a.m.
What, you're saying the owner of that site thinks the copyrights of
Windows, AutoCAD, Matlab, and Mathmatica are in question?
These programs are not abandonware. They are pirated.
I'm just sayin'....
---------------------------------------------
You guys may already know of this, some perhaps not.
All the OS's are there, MSDOS, Concurent CPM, Windows 1 thru 3
Autocad, Orcad, Mathematica, Maple, Matlab
Graphics like Dr. Halo
Programming languages MASM, Turbo Pascal
http://vetusware.com
Randy
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your inbox.
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID27925::T:WLMTAGL:ON:…
1:58 a.m.
Beat me to it! :-)
...and I know *all* about Mathmatica *not* being abandonware (what ever that means). I
purchased a copy for home and for work recently.
TTFN - Guy
On Mar 16, 2010, at 6:53 PM, Evan Koblentz wrote:
What, you're saying the owner of that site thinks
the copyrights of Windows, AutoCAD, Matlab, and Mathmatica are in question?
These programs are not abandonware. They are pirated.
I'm just sayin'....
---------------------------------------------
You guys may already know of this, some perhaps not.
All the OS's are there, MSDOS, Concurent CPM, Windows 1 thru 3
Autocad, Orcad, Mathematica, Maple, Matlab
Graphics like Dr. Halo
Programming languages MASM, Turbo Pascal
http://vetusware.com
Randy
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your inbox.
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID27925::T:WLMTAGL:ON:…
2:39 a.m.
On Mar 16, 2010, at 9:53 PM, Evan Koblentz wrote:
What, you're saying the owner of that site thinks
the copyrights of
Windows, AutoCAD, Matlab, and Mathmatica are in question?
These programs are not abandonware. They are pirated.
*click*
Hmm, that's funny. *click* *click*
They download just fine. *click*
Must not be a problem. *click* *click*
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
2:55 a.m.
On Mar 16, 2010, at 10:52 PM, John Foust wrote:
No. Actually I didn't even go there tonight. I found that site
about four years ago, and downloaded pretty much everything I wanted.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
Hmm,
that's funny. *click* *click*
They download just fine. *click*
Must not be a problem. *click* *click*
You didn't register, did you? 
2:20 a.m.
On Tue, 16 Mar 2010, Randy Dawson wrote:
You guys may already know of this, some perhaps not.
All the OS's are there, MSDOS, Concurent CPM, Windows 1 thru 3
Autocad, Orcad, Mathematica, Maple, Matlab
Graphics like Dr. Halo
Programming languages MASM, Turbo Pascal
http://vetusware.com
There is NO abandonware anywhere on that site. EVERYTHING there is
illegal copies for piracy.
Those of us who make a living writing software do not condone unauthorized
distribution of copyrighted works.
2:29 a.m.
On 3/16/2010 9:20 PM, Fred Cisin wrote:
On Tue, 16 Mar 2010, Randy Dawson wrote:
> You guys may already know of this, some perhaps not.
> All the OS's are there, MSDOS, Concurent CPM, Windows 1 thru 3
> Autocad, Orcad, Mathematica, Maple, Matlab
> Graphics like Dr. Halo
> Programming languages MASM, Turbo Pascal
> http://vetusware.com
>
I thought it was a troll (Using Autocad and "abandonware" in
the same
sentence). I'd clean up your "cookies" files and such if you visited,
as it might have been a trap :-)
Jim
2:34 a.m.
Er, Fred,
I write software too, I wrote the first ever multimedia program for the PC in DOS and
Windows, the roller coster simulator COASTER. (realtime fractal video decompression, with
audio)
First months sales $240,000, in 1994
Outsold Lotus 123.
So don't put me in the 'those of you',
I'm in the those of us.
Randy
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 19:20:32 -0700
From: cisin at xenosoft.com
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: great abandonware for your classic PC
On Tue, 16 Mar 2010, Randy Dawson wrote:
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox.
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID27925::T:WLMTAGL:ON:…
You guys may already know of this, some perhaps
not.
All the OS's are there, MSDOS, Concurent CPM, Windows 1 thru 3
Autocad, Orcad, Mathematica, Maple, Matlab
Graphics like Dr. Halo
Programming languages MASM, Turbo Pascal
http://vetusware.com
There is NO abandonware anywhere on that site. EVERYTHING there is
illegal copies for piracy.
Those of us who make a living writing software do not condone unauthorized
distribution of copyrighted works.
3:11 a.m.
> There is NO abandonware anywhere on that site.
EVERYTHING there is
> illegal copies for piracy.
> Those of us who make a living writing software do not condone unauthorized
> distribution of copyrighted works.
On Tue, 16 Mar 2010, Randy Dawson wrote:
Er, Fred,
I write software too, I wrote the first ever multimedia program for the PC in DOS and
Windows, the roller coster simulator COASTER. (realtime fractal video decompression, with
audio)
First months sales $240,000, in 1994
Outsold Lotus 123.
So don't put me in the 'those of you',
I'm in the those of us.
So, you DO condone unauthorized distribution of your copyrighted works?
My work becomes public domain when _I_ transfer it to public domain, NOT
when some asshole finds out that I've moved since first release, and he
can't find me in 10 minutes of searching, or decides that I'm not going to
come after him.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred
3:49 a.m.
Fred Cisin wrote:
My work becomes public domain when _I_ transfer it to
public domain, NOT
when some asshole finds out that I've moved since first release, and he
can't find me in 10 minutes of searching, or decides that I'm not going to
come after him.
The real abondonware is see that a great small product is bought out
like say Micro-$ and you are left with product that needs a few bug
fixes or drivers to update,or buy meg-a-$$$ product from Micro-$ with
now improved features that is still a few revisions behind the product
you were using.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred
Ben.
PS. The same could more be said about PC clones --- where do find leagle
software.
PPS. Is there a FORTRAN IV for DOS that is free?
4:03 a.m.
Absolutely Fred, let em copy my old stuff, and have fun, enjoy the title. There is no
practical way for us authors of anything that old to extract any bucks from it.
When I was hot with my title, I enjoyed the ride, but come on, move on. Any software on
that abandonware site has long lost any commercial viability, support or availability from
the original manufacturers.
I'll correct my previous post, MASM is not in the public domain, but freely
downloadable from Microsoft.
Your code is long dead too, in fact you report the software discontinued on your xenosoft
site, and sales suspended while you work on other projects.
Put it out there for the kiddies, with source, teach them something before you die.
I'll get flames on this I'm sure, but old code has been out of the can for as long
as the internet and BBS existence. If you cant make money on it, let the old stuff go.
Or better yet, let your energies be directed somewhere else, stop worrying about your
title on the net, because there is nothing you can do about it anyway.
Other subject, Mr. Donzelli, I was not advertising a site, I just ran across it and found
it interesting, as others here have reported being there 4 years ago and downloaded all
they wanted.
And Mr. Leonard, WRONG, my title was the first video decompression to run at full frame
rates on the PC, in both DOS and Windows. The CD ROM stuff never worked well, the data
rate was too slow. MPEG2 was just arriving, and you could get a hardware card to support
it. My stuff was bumped up off the hard drive into EMM and decompressed on the fly, no
added hardware, with a task switch that kept the buffer loaded. Fractal compression was
the only way at the time, it took specialized hardware in FPGA days to create the
compression files, but the decompress was lightning fast. As far as hardware
requirements, I supported the latest Cirrus Logic video cards in mode 13, 32k colors.
In addition to all that engineering, the roller coaster models were true simulations of
the actual rides, with support from the amusement parks. They were procedurally modeled
with the ride geometry derived from the original blueprints, and I wrote the 3d simulation
for the acceleration and quaternion rotation of the camera along the track. The rendering
was done in the commercial system TOPAS on the PC, with animation and model scripts
generated from the track data.
Randy
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 20:11:16 -0700
From: cisin at xenosoft.com
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: RE: great abandonware for your classic PC
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your inbox.
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID27925::T:WLMTAGL:ON:…
> There is NO abandonware anywhere on that
site. EVERYTHING there is
> illegal copies for piracy.
> Those of us who make a living writing software do not condone unauthorized
> distribution of copyrighted works.
On Tue, 16 Mar 2010, Randy Dawson wrote:
Er, Fred,
I write software too, I wrote the first ever multimedia program for the PC in DOS and
Windows, the roller coster simulator COASTER. (realtime fractal video decompression, with
audio)
First months sales $240,000, in 1994
Outsold Lotus 123.
So don't put me in the 'those of you',
I'm in the those of us.
So, you DO condone unauthorized distribution of your copyrighted works?
My work becomes public domain when _I_ transfer it to public domain, NOT
when some asshole finds out that I've moved since first release, and he
can't find me in 10 minutes of searching, or decides that I'm not going to
come after him.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred 
4:21 a.m.
At 11:03 PM 3/16/2010, Randy Dawson wrote:
I'll get flames on this I'm sure, but old code
has been out of the can for as long as the internet and BBS existence. If you cant make
money on it, let the old stuff go. Or better yet, let your energies be directed somewhere
else, stop worrying about your title on the net, because there is nothing you can do about
it anyway.
Really? :-)
At 04:06 PM 3/10/2007, Randy Dawson wrote:
I have Stardent (Kubota) Dore' running today and
porting my old app to it.
I wrote the PC roller coaster simulator, COASTER. I want to re-spin it, now that fast GPU
hardware has finaly arrived and in every PC.
So you're handing out the source to the old one, but writing a new one?
- John
5:14 a.m.
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 23:21:12 -0500
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
From: jfoust at threedee.com
Subject: RE: great abandonware for your classic PC
At 11:03 PM 3/16/2010, Randy Dawson wrote:
Sure, and more than that, post the new beside the changes, with details of lessons
learned.
As Jim Leonard said, us developers are more than happy to talk about the design challenges
and how we solved them. I had many cool tricks to do real time on the PC, and could write
a chapter on it. Most of the code we all write are what I call 'tiny circuits',
little nuggets that perform some cool logic thing. One tiny module hooks to another and
performs something all together different and cool. In my case, I would be glad to show
the code, and talk about it for:
Calculating the acceleration, and accumulating the velocity based on the slope of track
segments (Euler integration)
Determining the camera view matrix from the 3d model as you ride the coaster (some smart
guys from the NASA dynamics group gave me the shuttle fortran for quaternion to 3d
rotation matrix)
circular list of EMM pointers, of the next block to load, the next block to play, based on
the PC timer
I had limited space, 13 disks, so I looped the audio, for the coaster chain, the screams
and coaster sound, picking up the appropriate track segment to associate the sound
samples.
My intro to each coaster, was a cad animation of the ride geometry constructing, I used a
file of Tek 1410 vectors and a simple parser to read and do the cad drawing, rather than
have the model in memory, and a 3d cad engine, everything was pre-generated to make it
small and play back fast.
Randy
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox.
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID27925::T:WLMTAGL:ON:…
I'll get flames on this I'm sure, but old
code has been out of the can for as long as the internet and BBS existence. If you cant
make money on it, let the old stuff go. Or better yet, let your energies be directed
somewhere else, stop worrying about your title on the net, because there is nothing you
can do about it anyway.
Really? :-)
At 04:06 PM 3/10/2007, Randy Dawson wrote:
I have Stardent (Kubota) Dore' running today
and porting my old app to it.
I wrote the PC roller coaster simulator, COASTER. I want to re-spin it, now that fast GPU
hardware has finaly arrived and in every PC.
So you're handing out the source to the old one, but writing a new one?
- John
5:29 a.m.
On Wed, 17 Mar 2010, Randy Dawson wrote:
As Jim Leonard said, us developers are more than happy
to talk about the
design challenges and how we solved them. I had many cool tricks to do
real time on the PC, and could write a chapter on it.
I was approached by a publisher, to do exactly that, with discussion, and
code examples. But, one of the first things the publisher said was to NOT
let go of the copyright on any of the code examples! I don't think that I
will ever do such a disk I/O book, nor do I believe that there would be a
market for it. Disks are "so obsolete".
But most of my XEDNI(tm) code is going into a manuscript, and none of the
licenses that I've peddled for any of it would restrict me from
publication. That, too, probably won't be marketable, but I don't let
that aspect of reality get in my way.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
19 Mar
19 Mar
6:33 p.m.
At 04:06 PM 3/10/2007, Randy Dawson wrote:
>I have Stardent (Kubota) Dore' running today and porting my old app to
it.
>I wrote the PC roller coaster simulator, COASTER.
I want to re-spin it,
now that fast GPU hardware has finaly arrived and in every
PC.
So you're handing out the source to the old one, but writing a new one?
- John
That's how I work too.
Whenever I release new software, I always include the source to the last
software I wrote. I don't like to include the source with the software when
it's is released, as someone could come along, change the credits and then
become famous with *my* work. Ok, chances are it won't happen, but I'm still
not going to take that risk.
Regards,
Andrew B
aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk
17 Mar
17 Mar
4:35 a.m.
On 3/16/2010 11:03 PM, Randy Dawson wrote:
And Mr. Leonard, WRONG, my title was the first video decompression to run at full frame
rates on the PC, in both DOS and Windows. The CD ROM stuff never worked well, the data
rate was too slow. MPEG2 was just arriving, and you could get a hardware card to support
it. My stuff was bumped up off the hard drive into EMM and decompressed on the fly, no
added hardware, with a task switch that kept the buffer loaded. Fractal compression was
the only way at the time, it took specialized hardware in FPGA days to create the
compression files, but the decompress was lightning fast. As far as hardware
requirements, I supported the latest Cirrus Logic video cards in mode 13, 32k colors.
Well, you needed to be more specific when you said MULTIMEDIA -- that
can mean anything. I still think I can find prior art. What res were
your videos? What framerate? (and just for my own curiosity, what
class hardware was needed to decompress -- 486? Pentium?)
Would I impress you if I said I developed a system that played back
30fps color video with sound -- in CGA -- on a 4.77MHz 8088 -- requiring
only 128K of RAM? In 16 colors with an effective resolution of 320x200?
And wasn't lying? http://www.oldskool.org/pc/8088_Corruption if
you're curious.
In addition to all that engineering, the roller
coaster models were true simulations of the actual rides, with support from the amusement
parks. They were procedurally modeled with the ride geometry derived from the original
blueprints, and I wrote the 3d simulation for the acceleration and quaternion rotation of
the camera along the track. The rendering was done in the commercial system TOPAS on the
PC, with animation and model scripts generated from the track data.
THAT is truly impressive, as well as your use of FPGAs to encode the
video. You do get mad props for that (I'm completely serious).
But you can't claim "first multimedia program on PC". That is just too
wild and vague a statement, especially since you're not defining what
"multimedia" is.
--
Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/
Help our electronic games project: http://www.mobygames.com/
Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/
A child borne of the home computer wars: http://trixter.wordpress.com/
12:41 p.m.
Jim Leonard wrote:
Program counter, known in some circles as the IP (instruction pointer)
(N.B. editorial opinion: all other uses of those initials are evil)
But you can't claim "first multimedia
program on PC". That is just too
wild and vague a statement, especially since you're not defining what
"multimedia" is.
Wait... what's the definition of a PC again? ;-)
5:38 p.m.
> Wait... what's the definition of a PC again?
;-)
On Wed, 17 Mar 2010 blstuart at bellsouth.net wrote:
Program counter, known in some circles as the IP
(instruction pointer)
(N.B. editorial opinion: all other uses of those initials are evil)
What is wrong with "Printed Circuit"?
4:53 p.m.
> Wait...
what's the definition of a PC again? ;-)
On Wed, 17 Mar 2010 blstuart at bellsouth.net wrote:
Program counter, known in some circles as the IP
(instruction pointer)
(N.B. editorial opinion: all other uses of those initials are evil)
What is wrong with "Printed Circuit"? 
6:01 p.m.
On Wed, 17 Mar 2010, Fred Cisin wrote:
In the US Navy, it stands for "Postal Clerk".
In the UK it stands for "Police Constable".
Acronyms are evil.
Zane
> Wait...
what's the definition of a PC again? ;-)
On Wed, 17 Mar 2010 blstuart at bellsouth.net wrote:
Program counter, known in some circles as the IP
(instruction pointer)
(N.B. editorial opinion: all other uses of those initials are evil)
What is wrong with "Printed Circuit"? 
6:14 p.m.
As with all words, context is important. ;)
________________________________
From: Zane H. Healy <healyzh at aracnet.com>
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Wed, March 17, 2010 1:01:56 PM
Subject: Re: great abandonware for your classic PC
On Wed, 17 Mar 2010, Fred Cisin wrote:
In the US Navy, it stands for "Postal Clerk".
In the UK it stands for "Police Constable".
Acronyms are evil.
Zane
> Wait...
what's the definition of a PC again? ;-)
On Wed, 17 Mar 2010 blstuart at bellsouth.net wrote:
Program counter, known in some circles as the IP
(instruction pointer)
(N.B. editorial opinion: all other uses of those initials are evil)
What is wrong with "Printed Circuit"? 
6:17 p.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-
bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Zane H. Healy
Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 11:02 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: great abandonware for your classic PC
On Wed, 17 Mar 2010, Fred Cisin wrote:
pointer)
In the US Navy, it stands for "Postal Clerk".
In the UK it stands for "Police Constable".
Acronyms are evil.
Zane
...and then there's the new usage: Politically Correct. Now THAT's evil.
-- Ian
>
Wait... what's the definition of a PC again? ;-)
On Wed, 17 Mar 2010 blstuart at bellsouth.net wrote:
> Program counter, known in some circles as the IP (instruction (N.B.
editorial opinion: all other uses of those initials are evil)
What is wrong with "Printed Circuit"? 
7:39 p.m.
From: Zane H. Healy
Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 11:02 AM
On Wed, 17 Mar 2010, Fred Cisin wrote:
>>> Wait... what's the definition of a PC
again? ;-)
> On Wed, 17 Mar 2010 blstuart at bellsouth.net
wrote:
>> Program counter, known in some circles as the IP (instruction pointer)
>> (N.B. editorial opinion: all other uses of those initials are evil)
> What is wrong with "Printed Circuit"?
In the US Navy, it stands for "Postal
Clerk".
In the UK it stands for "Police Constable".
Acronyms are evil.
But is there a problem with unpronounceable abbreviations? I think those are
at worst chaotic neutral.
Rich
18 Mar
18 Mar
9:29 a.m.
On Wed, 17 Mar 2010, Zane H. Healy wrote:
What is wrong with "Printed Circuit"?
In the US Navy, it stands for "Postal Clerk".
In the UK it stands for "Police Constable".
Polycarbonate
Christian
Wait...
what's the definition of a PC again? ;-)
Program counter, known in some circles
as the IP (instruction pointer)
(N.B. editorial opinion: all other uses of those initials are evil)
7:54 p.m.
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 10:29:51 +0100
From: cc at informatik.uni-stuttgart.de
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: great abandonware for your classic PC
On Wed, 17 Mar 2010, Zane H. Healy wrote:
In the US Navy, it stands for "Postal Clerk".
In the UK it stands for "Police Constable".
Polycarbonate
Christian
Programmable Controller
Randy
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft?s powerful SPAM protection.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/210850552/direct/01/
> Wait... what's the definition of a PC again?
;-)
Program counter, known in some circles as the IP (instruction pointer)
(N.B. editorial opinion: all other uses of those initials are evil)
What is wrong with "Printed Circuit"? 
8:06 p.m.
Many people wrote:
Polycarbonate
Programmable Controller
Or any one of nearly 300 other common uses -
http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/PC
-ethan
>>
Wait... what's the definition of a PC again? ;-)
> Program counter...
What is wrong with "Printed Circuit"?
In the US Navy, it stands for "Postal Clerk".
In the UK it stands for "Police Constable". 
8:09 p.m.
Randy Dawson wrote:
Polycarbonate
Programmable Controller
Pubococcygeus.
Peace... Sridhar
>>
Wait... what's the definition of a PC again? ;-)
> Program counter, known in some circles as the IP (instruction pointer)
> (N.B. editorial opinion: all other uses of those initials are evil)
What is wrong with "Printed Circuit"?
In the US Navy, it stands for "Postal Clerk".
In the UK it stands for "Police Constable".
8:14 p.m.
On Mar 18, 2010, at 4:09 PM, Sridhar Ayengar wrote:
Programmable Controller
Pubococcygeus.
...and his all-girl orchestra.
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
>>>
Wait... what's the definition of a PC again? ;-)
>> Program counter, known in some circles as the IP (instruction
>> pointer)
>> (N.B. editorial opinion: all other uses of those initials are
>> evil)
>
> What is wrong with "Printed Circuit"?
In the US Navy, it stands for "Postal Clerk".
In the UK it stands for "Police Constable".
Polycarbonate 
17 Mar
17 Mar
1:25 p.m.
But you
can't claim "first multimedia program on PC". That is just too
wild and vague a statement, especially since you're not defining what
"multimedia" is.
Wait... what's the definition of a PC again? ;-) 
1:33 p.m.
That's too funny.
can someone reply with the original link for me?
for some reason it never showed up on my end, only the replies... :(
Dan.
From: spectre at floodgap.com
Subject: Re: great abandonware for your classic PC
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 06:25:11 -0700
Any computer that resembles John Hodgman.
--
------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com
-- Magic Eight Ball vs. Microsoft: "Outlook not so good" ----------------------
_________________________________________________________________
IM on the go with Messenger on your phone
http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9712960
But you
can't claim "first multimedia program on PC". That is just too
wild and vague a statement, especially since you're not defining what
"multimedia" is.
Wait... what's the definition of a PC again? ;-)
5:36 p.m.
> But you can't claim "first multimedia
program on PC". That is just too
> wild and vague a statement, especially since you're not defining what
> "multimedia" is.
On Wed, 17 Mar 2010, Jules Richardson wrote:
Wait... what's the definition of a PC again? ;-)
We have yet to even adequately define "FIRST".
Do we count stuff in the R&D lab that doesn't go into production?
Do we count stuff released by nobodies that nobody ever hears about?
Does "first" mean first to work? demo? market?
6:30 p.m.
Fred Cisin wrote:
I'm considering it fortunate that I wasn't drinking anything when I read that :-)
J.
> But you
can't claim "first multimedia program on PC". That is just too
> wild and vague a statement, especially since you're not defining what
> "multimedia" is.
On Wed, 17 Mar 2010, Jules Richardson wrote:
Wait... what's the definition of a PC again?
;-)
We have yet to even adequately define "FIRST".
8:13 p.m.
But you
can't claim "first multimedia program on PC". That is just too
wild and vague a statement, especially since you're not defining what
"multimedia" is.
Wait... what's the definition of a PC again? ;-)
9:25 p.m.
> > We have yet to even adequately define
"FIRST".
On Wed, 17 Mar 2010, Cameron Kaiser wrote:
Fred is clearly jumping the gun. Two presidential
administrations later and
we still haven't figured out what the definition of "is" is.
We have had quite a few discussions where the definition of "FIRST" would
be essential, ranging from "the first computer on the internet", to "when
do we consider the Amiga, or even Pet, to have first come out.
Does Comdex count?
Or are we talking about which one I could unpack and set up in my home
first?
11:31 p.m.
Cameron Kaiser wrote:
I'm considering it fortunate that I
wasn't drinking anything when I read
that :-)
Fred is clearly jumping the gun. Two presidential administrations later and
we still haven't figured out what the definition of "is" is.
That time I *was* drinking something, you bastard. ;-)
> But you
can't claim "first multimedia program on PC". That is just too
> wild and vague a statement, especially since you're not defining what
> "multimedia" is.
Wait... what's the definition of a PC again? ;-)
We have yet to even
adequately define "FIRST".
3:12 a.m.
On 3/16/2010 9:34 PM, Randy Dawson wrote:
I write software too, I wrote the first ever multimedia program for the PC in DOS and
Windows, the roller coster simulator COASTER. (realtime fractal video decompression, with
audio)
Absolutely positively NOT the first multimedia program for the PC. I'm
sure you are proud of your creation, but there are many examples of
prior art by several years. Sherlock Holmes in 1991 comes to mind, or
if you're a stickler for "PC *and* Windows" then Jones in the Fast Lane
in 1992 has you beat with both versions on the same CDROM.
I am limiting my comments to motion video on a CDROM -- there are prior
examples of motion video (with sync'd audio) that came on multiple
floppy disks, if you want to get even more pedantic :-)
Outsold Lotus 123.
Well, that wasn't hard to do in 1994, considering that quattro was
trouncing it in DOS and Excel was trouncing it in Windows at that time.
But hey, you get props for using fractal video in DOS. I'm being
serious. What were the system requirements for the DOS version for
playback?
--
Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/
Help our electronic games project: http://www.mobygames.com/
Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/
A child borne of the home computer wars: http://trixter.wordpress.com/
3:57 a.m.
On 3/16/2010 9:34 PM, Randy Dawson wrote:
> I write software too, I wrote the first ever multimedia program for the PC in DOS
and Windows, the roller coster simulator COASTER. (realtime fractal video decompression,
with audio)
On Tue, 16 Mar 2010, Jim Leonard wrote:
Absolutely positively NOT the first multimedia program
for the PC. I'm
sure you are proud of your creation, but there are many examples of
prior art by several years. Sherlock Holmes in 1991 comes to mind, or
if you're a stickler for "PC *and* Windows" then Jones in the Fast Lane
in 1992 has you beat with both versions on the same CDROM.
I saw some crappy demos of multimedia programs for the PC in 1986.
But, If Randy wants to state that his was BETTER than all that came before
his, then I don't have an argument.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred
19 Mar
19 Mar
6:28 p.m.
and how much of that $240,000 did you see? (I hope I'm not overstepping any
bounderies)
Regards,
Andrew B
aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy Dawson" <rdawson16 at hotmail.com>
To: "classic computers" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 2:34 AM
Subject: RE: great abandonware for your classic PC
Er, Fred,
I write software too, I wrote the first ever multimedia program for the PC
in DOS and Windows, the roller coster simulator COASTER. (realtime fractal
video decompression, with audio)
First months sales $240,000, in 1994
Outsold Lotus 123.
So don't put me in the 'those of you',
I'm in the those of us.
Randy
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 19:20:32 -0700
From: cisin at xenosoft.com
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: great abandonware for your classic PC
On Tue, 16 Mar 2010, Randy Dawson wrote:
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox.
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID27925::T:WLMTAGL:ON:…
You guys may already know of this, some perhaps
not.
All the OS's are there, MSDOS, Concurent CPM, Windows 1 thru 3
Autocad, Orcad, Mathematica, Maple, Matlab
Graphics like Dr. Halo
Programming languages MASM, Turbo Pascal
http://vetusware.com
There is NO abandonware anywhere on that site. EVERYTHING there is
illegal copies for piracy.
Those of us who make a living writing software do not condone unauthorized
distribution of copyrighted works.
9:35 p.m.
Andrew,
I got 60K first month, 30K next month, then 20, 10 5 and zero. I was part of the screen
saver fad, and it was all over in 6 months.
Randy
From: aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: great abandonware for your classic PC
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 18:28:10 +0000
and how much of that $240,000 did you see? (I hope I'm not overstepping any
bounderies)
Regards,
Andrew B
aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy Dawson" <rdawson16 at hotmail.com>
To: "classic computers" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 2:34 AM
Subject: RE: great abandonware for your classic PC
Er, Fred,
I write software too, I wrote the first ever multimedia program for the PC
in DOS and Windows, the roller coster simulator COASTER. (realtime fractal
video decompression, with audio)
First months sales $240,000, in 1994
Outsold Lotus 123.
So don't put me in the 'those of you',
I'm in the those of us.
Randy
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/210850553/direct/01/
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 19:20:32 -0700
From: cisin at xenosoft.com
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: great abandonware for your classic PC
On Tue, 16 Mar 2010, Randy Dawson wrote:
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox.
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID27925::T:WLMTAGL:ON:…
You guys may already know of this, some perhaps
not.
All the OS's are there, MSDOS, Concurent CPM, Windows 1 thru 3
Autocad, Orcad, Mathematica, Maple, Matlab
Graphics like Dr. Halo
Programming languages MASM, Turbo Pascal
http://vetusware.com
There is NO abandonware anywhere on that site. EVERYTHING there is
illegal copies for piracy.
Those of us who make a living writing software do not condone unauthorized
distribution of copyrighted works.
20 Mar
20 Mar
4:10 p.m.
I'd be happy with that, and considering that was back in 1994 you must have
been pretty rich (for a while). I get ?19K a *year* (before tax) at my
current job
(which has nothing to do with programming).
Regards,
Andrew B
aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy Dawson" <rdawson16 at hotmail.com
To: "classic computers" <cctalk at classiccmp.org Sent: Friday, March 19, 2010 9:35 PM
Subject: RE: great abandonware for your classic PC
Andrew,
I got 60K first month, 30K next month, then 20, 10 5 and zero. I was part
of the screen saver fad, and it was all over in 6 months.
Randy
inbox.
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID27925::T:WLMTAGL:ON:…
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/210850553/direct/01/=
From: aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: great abandonware for your classic PC
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 18:28:10 +0000
and how much of that $240,000 did you see? (I hope I'm not overstepping
any
bounderies)
Regards,
Andrew B
aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy Dawson" <rdawson16 at hotmail.com
To: "classic computers" <cctalk at classiccmp.org Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 2:34 AM
Subject: RE: great abandonware for your classic PC
Er, Fred,
I write software too, I wrote the first ever multimedia program for the PC
in DOS and Windows, the roller coster simulator COASTER. (realtime
fractal
video decompression, with audio)
First months sales $240,000, in 1994
Outsold Lotus 123.
So don't put me in the 'those of you',
I'm in the those of us.
Randy
> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 19:20:32 -0700
> From: cisin at xenosoft.com
> To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
> Subject: Re: great abandonware for your classic PC
> On Tue, 16 Mar 2010, Randy Dawson wrote:
> > You guys may already know of this, some perhaps not.
> > All the OS's are there, MSDOS, Concurent CPM, Windows 1 thru 3
> > Autocad, Orcad, Mathematica, Maple, Matlab
> > Graphics like Dr. Halo
> > Programming languages MASM, Turbo Pascal
> > http://vetusware.com
> There is NO abandonware anywhere on that
site. EVERYTHING there is
> illegal copies for piracy.
> Those of us who make a living writing
software do not condone
unauthorized
distribution
of copyrighted works.
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your
17 Mar
17 Mar
3:05 a.m.
On 3/16/2010 9:20 PM, Fred Cisin wrote:
There is NO abandonware anywhere on that site.
EVERYTHING there is
illegal copies for piracy.
Undeniably.
Abandonware is one of the most horrible terms I had the unfortunate
history of helping coin. I was part of the original movement and
lobbied very heavily to call "software no longer made available in any
form by the publisher" by the term "oldwarez". Unfortunately I lost,
and the horrid term "abandonware" was chosen.
I'm not going to get into a discussion about pirating software with
those who do it for a living. We pirate software every time we get our
old computers running (ie. you didn't really pay for that 30-yr-old
operating system, did you?) so such a discussion would be hypocritical.
But I *will* say that some of us in the old-game-pirating movement
knew full well what we were doing. It's unfortunate that the morons who
were trying to kid themselves that what they were doing was somehow
moral outnumbered us when it came time to pick a name.
--
Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/
Help our electronic games project: http://www.mobygames.com/
Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/
A child borne of the home computer wars: http://trixter.wordpress.com/
4:39 a.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-
bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jim Leonard
Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 8:05 PM
To: General at mail.mobygames.com; Discussion@
Subject: Re: great abandonware for your classic PC
On 3/16/2010 9:20 PM, Fred Cisin wrote:
Yes, we did pay - or at least in kind.
I spent months negotiating with a certain large corporation for rights to run their
software, even thought it would have been trivial for me to simply install it from vintage
media (that I possessed). The software in question is certainly obsolete, but there is no
question that they own the rights to it. In other cases, it's hard to figure out who
owns the rights - we're currently working with some folks on just such issues. The
degree of difficulty does not justify 'assuming' a faux doctrine such as
'abandonware'.
Yes, I too have worked in roles that made money from intellectual property: software and
music. It's funny how it changes your perspective.
Michael Jackson is still dead, but I read just today about a new business deal being
negotiated about his music. Death is the ultimate abandonment - but the intellectual
property rights live on. Is it 'right' or 'just'? Sorry, I gave up
swallowing camels and straining at gnats years ago. I do know that wishing doesn't
make it so, and wishing away others' IP rights, regardless of coming up with a clever
moniker, is no guarantee that some lawyer somewhere isn't going to put his next child
through college on your tab.
-- Ian
There is NO abandonware anywhere on that site.
EVERYTHING there is
illegal copies for piracy.
Undeniably.
Abandonware is one of the most horrible terms I had the unfortunate
history of helping coin. I was part of the original movement and
lobbied very heavily to call "software no longer made available in any
form by the publisher" by the term "oldwarez". Unfortunately I lost,
and the horrid term "abandonware" was chosen.
I'm not going to get into a discussion about pirating software with
those who do it for a living. We pirate software every time we get our
old computers running (ie. you didn't really pay for that 30-yr-old
operating system, did you?) so such a discussion would be hypocritical.
2:56 a.m.
Sounds more like pirated software than abandonware. Most of those
are products from some very active, and very big companies.
Zane
At 8:45 PM -0500 3/16/10, Randy Dawson wrote:
You guys may already know of this, some perhaps not.
All the OS's are there, MSDOS, Concurent CPM, Windows 1 thru 3
Autocad, Orcad, Mathematica, Maple, Matlab
Graphics like Dr. Halo
Programming languages MASM, Turbo Pascal
http://vetusware.com
Randy
--
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh at aracnet.com | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
2:26 a.m.
Zane,
I see lots of stuff there that are definitely pretty dead. Also not sure how badly the
others are going to run you down for grabbing an obsolete product.
Lattice C for example, Lattice is definitely out of business, as well as Digital Research.
Microsoft has put MASM in the public domain quite a while ago.
I know, your going to tell me the rights were purchased by some other company in the
chain, so go review the SCO/Novel debacle. We can always find plenty of lawyers here in
the USA to argue over copyrights. I am not aware of any hobbyist with no comercial gain
being bit by these tactics.
Anybody here, that blows some eproms from binaries on the web to bring a machine back to
life is probably also in violation of copyright.
Reminds me of the Compaq bios, the reason it worked, is IBM apps peeked into the bios
locations for the "Copyright IBM' string, and if found, executed.
The Compaq guys put that string in the exact same location, but it was "None of this
code is Copyright IBM"
Randy
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 18:56:11 -0800
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
From: healyzh at aracnet.com
Subject: Re: great abandonware for your classic PC
Sounds more like pirated software than abandonware. Most of those
are products from some very active, and very big companies.
Zane
At 8:45 PM -0500 3/16/10, Randy Dawson wrote:
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox.
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID27925::T:WLMTAGL:ON:…
You guys may already know of this, some perhaps
not.
All the OS's are there, MSDOS, Concurent CPM, Windows 1 thru 3
Autocad, Orcad, Mathematica, Maple, Matlab
Graphics like Dr. Halo
Programming languages MASM, Turbo Pascal
http://vetusware.com
Randy
--
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh at aracnet.com | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
3:06 a.m.
On Tue, 16 Mar 2010, Randy Dawson wrote:
I see lots of stuff there that are definitely pretty
dead. Also not
sure how badly the others are going to run you down for grabbing an
obsolete product. Lattice C for example, Lattice is definitely out of
business, as well as Digital Research. Microsoft has put MASM in the
public domain quite a while ago.
Not true.
You can not provide a document that relinquishes ther copyright of it.
I know, your going to tell me the rights were
purchased by some other
company in the chain, so go review the SCO/Novel debacle. We can always
find plenty of lawyers here in the USA to argue over copyrights. I am
not aware of any hobbyist with no comercial gain being bit by these
tactics.
There is NO argument possible to the explicit transfer of IP rights.
3:24 a.m.
At 10:06 PM 3/16/2010, Fred Cisin wrote:
There is NO argument possible to the explicit transfer
of IP rights.
Do you mean company-to-company, or do you mean licenses, and adherence
to shrinkwrap agreements?
If the agreement says you can't transfer ownership, then how
can a collector even acquire someone else's old stuff?
- John
3:33 a.m.
>There is NO argument possible to the explicit
transfer of IP rights.
On Tue, 16 Mar 2010, John Foust wrote:
Do you mean company-to-company, or do you mean
licenses, and adherence
to shrinkwrap agreements?
If the agreement says you can't transfer ownership, then how
can a collector even acquire someone else's old stuff?
I'm referring to the ownership of the copyright of the work.
There are, indeed, some questions of the legality of "adhesion contracts",
such as shrinkwrap agreements, and even some issues on transfer of
ownership of a licensed copy.
Placing a work on a site for anonymous download without the consent of the
owner of the copyright is certainly NOT a "gray area".
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred
3:59 a.m.
At 10:33 PM 3/16/2010, Fred Cisin wrote:
There are, indeed, some questions of the legality of
"adhesion contracts",
such as shrinkwrap agreements, and even some issues on transfer of
ownership of a licensed copy.
Placing a work on a site for anonymous download without the consent of the
owner of the copyright is certainly NOT a "gray area".
Perhaps something like the legal concept of adverse possession will
arise in the software world. If the original owner isn't actively
pursuing violations, perhaps the IP rights could be turned over to
some other party who did preserve it and does show an interest in it.
In my case, I actively developed a product for a decade. In 1997 I sold it
to another company, who plowed it under in less than two years. That company
itself was bought, sold, split, merged a few times since then. I can't even
find anyone within the company who will return my calls or emails, much less
be able to admit with any certainty what happened to the source, who has it,
and whether they'd turn the rights back to me. Buying the IP does give you
the right to bury it under a rock.
I hope there's a significant fraction of software developers who would
be tickled to hear their old stuff is still being appreciated. I suspect
many would be glad to give it away.
- John
4:16 a.m.
On 3/16/2010 10:59 PM, John Foust wrote:
I hope there's a significant fraction of software
developers who would
be tickled to hear their old stuff is still being appreciated. I suspect
many would be glad to give it away.
I have had great reactions from everyone I've contacted regarding their
old works -- in fact, I recommend people try it. Some examples:
- Neal White III and Rand E. Bohrer gave me some great
previously-unknown information about their work when I interviewed them
for an article ( http://www.mobygames.com/featured_article/feature,10/ ).
- Paul Carruthers was so tickled when I told him the true story that I
was able to complete all 100 designed levels of Archipelagos (levels
past 100 are seed-generated) that he sent me a free copy of Archipelagos
2000, released only in the UK.
- The person who did the PC port of Jumpman, when asked questions about
it for a reverse-engineering project (
http://www.oldskool.org/pc/jumpman ), was kind enough to send as much of
the original code as he could find to the project to help out.
- Mark Pelczarski of Pengiun Software/Polarware was kind enough to send
me the asm code for Graphics Magician when I was trying to write a util
to display graphics created by that program.
It's only the lawyers (who weren't even BORN when the original works
came out) that don't give two shits. In my experience, anyway.
Geez, I sound old. I'm not even 40 yet.
--
Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/
Help our electronic games project: http://www.mobygames.com/
Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/
A child borne of the home computer wars: http://trixter.wordpress.com/
7:26 a.m.
I've had good experience as well. I got the full source for an Amiga
title just by asking. (Admitedly it was not a big corporation who made
it, but still).
On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 11:16:55PM -0500, Jim Leonard wrote:
On 3/16/2010 10:59 PM, John Foust wrote:
I hope there's a significant fraction of
software developers who would
be tickled to hear their old stuff is still being appreciated. I suspect
many would be glad to give it away.
I have had great reactions from everyone I've contacted regarding
their old works -- in fact, I recommend people try it. Some
examples:
- Neal White III and Rand E. Bohrer gave me some great
previously-unknown information about their work when I interviewed
them for an article (
http://www.mobygames.com/featured_article/feature,10/ ).
- Paul Carruthers was so tickled when I told him the true story that
I was able to complete all 100 designed levels of Archipelagos
(levels past 100 are seed-generated) that he sent me a free copy of
Archipelagos 2000, released only in the UK.
- The person who did the PC port of Jumpman, when asked questions
about it for a reverse-engineering project (
http://www.oldskool.org/pc/jumpman ), was kind enough to send as
much of the original code as he could find to the project to help
out.
- Mark Pelczarski of Pengiun Software/Polarware was kind enough to
send me the asm code for Graphics Magician when I was trying to
write a util to display graphics created by that program.
It's only the lawyers (who weren't even BORN when the original works
came out) that don't give two shits. In my experience, anyway.
Geez, I sound old. I'm not even 40 yet.
--
Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/
Help our electronic games project: http://www.mobygames.com/
Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/
A child borne of the home computer wars: http://trixter.wordpress.com/ 
7:09 p.m.
John Foust wrote:
At 10:06 PM 3/16/2010, Fred Cisin wrote:
And even if there were some type of agreements, I think the "First Sale"
Doctrine would have to kick in here somewhere.
Even Microsoft lost(ok, gave up) their copyright suit when a college kid
sold his Windows OS disk on ebay.
Keith
There is NO argument possible to the explicit
transfer of IP rights.
Do you mean company-to-company, or do you mean licenses, and adherence
to shrinkwrap agreements?
If the agreement says you can't transfer ownership, then how
can a collector even acquire someone else's old stuff?
- John
4:24 a.m.
On 16 Mar 2010 at 20:06, Fred Cisin wrote:
There is NO argument possible to the explicit transfer
of IP rights.
Current US copyright is 95 years post mortem auctoris or 95 years
after publication for works still in copyright in 1978 (WTO URAA). I
don't think there was much software written before 1923, but I could
be mistaken.
So you have some time to wait.
Ask any musician about copyright and "abandonware". There are
publishers that have in their libraries scores that have been out of
print for 50 years with no intention of resurrecting them. Those
same firms will sue you for distributing copies that you've made
yourself.
You don't like it, get the law changed. I'm all for copyrights to
have the same terms and protections as patents.
--Chuck
4:51 a.m.
On Tue, 16 Mar 2010, Chuck Guzis wrote:
Current US copyright is 95 years post mortem auctoris
or 95 years
after publication for works still in copyright in 1978 (WTO URAA). I
don't think there was much software written before 1923, but I could
be mistaken.
So you have some time to wait.
And sometimes, the IP ownership of stuff LONG GONE is still extremely
valuable. If Adam Osborne had acted promptly enough to obtain a share of
the Visicalc IP from any of the multiple heirs to it (at one point, $10K
would have bought it), he would have been more than invincible to Lotus.
When Novel bought Digital Research, it was not for any tangible assets,
other than the copyright for CP/M, and the power that that had to keep
MICROS~1 at bay.
Ask any musician about copyright and
"abandonware". There are
publishers that have in their libraries scores that have been out of
print for 50 years with no intention of resurrecting them. Those
same firms will sue you for distributing copies that you've made
yourself.
The situation of music and software copyrights are quite similar. The
lack of effective use of a copyright doesn't diminish the ownership of it.
"Abandonware" doesn't exist unless there are no heirs to the IP. In fact,
in some cases multiple entities can have enforceable rights. (such as
Visicalc, or even the Seattle Computer Products non-exclusive right to
"the operating system")
It's also worth noticing that sometimes the copyright is held by the
PUBLISHER, not the AUTHOR. Does Sheb Wooley still get any royalties for
his share of what little money still comes in from "One Eyed One Horn
Flying Purple People Eater"?
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
4:58 a.m.
Fred Cisin wrote:
It's also worth noticing that sometimes the copyright is held by the
PUBLISHER, not the AUTHOR. Does Sheb Wooley still get any royalties for
his share of what little money still comes in from "One Eyed One Horn
Flying Purple People Eater"?
What surprized me is the "Happy birthday" song is still copywright.
I think it is the same song, but sometimes you never know just what
a song is named.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
PS: I think I like "Does your chewing gum lose its ..." better.
5:25 a.m.
On 16 Mar 2010 at 22:58, Ben wrote:
What surprized me is the "Happy birthday"
song is still copywright. I
think it is the same song, but sometimes you never know just what a
song is named.
The legal discussion of the copyright status of that song has
probably consumed many acres of prime timber. A few years ago, an
acquaintance penned a novelty work titled "Variations on Happy
Birthday to You". He was incredulous when I pointed out that Warner
Brothers still holds copyright on that chestnut (although many
question the validity of the copyright; Wikipedia has a few
paragraphs on it). I advised that changing two opening eighth notes
of the melody to a single quarter note would solve the problem,
provided that the "Birthday" part was left out of the title. I think
he ended up by re-titling to "Variations on a Famous Greeting" and
combining the opening two notes of the melody.
It may or may not be a valid copyright, but Warner's got all the
lawyers.
There's a fairly well documented episode involving Amazon and the
Kindle. Apparently a number of people in the US awoke one morning to
find the copy of George Orwell's "1984" gone from their readers. It
seems that Amazon had mistankenly used an Australian edition where
the work is in the public domain--not so in the US, however.
--Chuck
19 Mar
19 Mar
6:01 p.m.
Which is funny why they haven't shut it down if it's been up for several
years, if not longer. Big companies usually squash bugs (not that kind of
bug!) quickly when copyright infringement occurs, with a big team of
lawyers.
Regards,
Andrew B
aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk
----- Original Message -----
From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh at aracnet.com>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 2:56 AM
Subject: Re: great abandonware for your classic PC
Sounds more like pirated software than abandonware.
Most of those
are products from some very active, and very big companies.
Zane
At 8:45 PM -0500 3/16/10, Randy Dawson wrote:
You guys may already know of this, some perhaps
not.
All the OS's are there, MSDOS, Concurent CPM, Windows 1 thru 3
Autocad, Orcad, Mathematica, Maple, Matlab
Graphics like Dr. Halo
Programming languages MASM, Turbo Pascal
http://vetusware.com
Randy
--
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh at aracnet.com | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
5401
days inactive
5404
days old
59 comments
25 participants
participants (25)
-
aliensrcooluk＠yahoo.co.uk -
bfranchuk＠jetnet.ab.ca -
blstuart＠bellsouth.net -
brain＠jbrain.com -
cc＠informatik.uni-stuttgart.de -
cclist＠sydex.com -
cisin＠xenosoft.com -
dgahling＠hotmail.com -
ethan.dicks＠gmail.com -
evan＠snarc.net -
ggs＠shiresoft.com -
healyzh＠aracnet.com -
IanK＠vulcan.com -
jfoust＠threedee.com -
jules.richardson99＠gmail.com -
keithvz＠verizon.net -
mcguire＠neurotica.com -
oltmansg＠bellsouth.net -
ploopster＠gmail.com -
pontus＠Update.UU.SE -
rdawson16＠hotmail.com -
RichA＠vulcan.com -
spectre＠floodgap.com -
trixter＠oldskool.org -
wdonzelli＠gmail.com