6 Aug
2014
6 Aug
'14
6:45 p.m.
Has anyone ever used vtserver to copy a physical pdp11 disk to an image file? I know it
is usually used in the other direction, copying an image to a real disk.
A local pdp11/34 has popped up, and there are several RK05 packs I desperately want
images of.
Also, I seem to remember some discussion of a version that could auto boot with the 11/34
console emulator, instead of ODT...
As always, thanks for any info.
7 Aug
7 Aug
9:43 a.m.
I have a copy that I had already typed out for the 11/34 console, I will try to dig that
up this evening
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 6, 2014, at 5:45 PM, Roe Peterson
<roeapeterson at gmail.com> wrote:
Has anyone ever used vtserver to copy a physical pdp11 disk to an image file? I know it
is usually used in the other direction, copying an image to a real disk.
A local pdp11/34 has popped up, and there are several RK05 packs I desperately want
images of.
Also, I seem to remember some discussion of a version that could auto boot with the 11/34
console emulator, instead of ODT...
As always, thanks for any info.
11:48 a.m.
On Thu, Aug 7, 2014 at 9:43 AM, Julian Wolfe <julian at twinax.org> wrote:
I have a copy that I had already typed out for the
11/34 console, I will try to dig that up this evening
I would be interested in that. What are the memory requirements?
ISTR that was one thing about vtserver is the PDP-11 end needed a
little bit of RAM.
I've glanced at the code and wondered if there wasn't a way to bring
things down to 56K if one chose a specific disk driver and no frills,
just to expand the range of machines that are possible to use for
archiving. Since vtserver was written to place a bootable image on a
machine that had enough RAM to run UNIX, there wasn't much need to
economize, but if the purpose is archiving, one doesn't need a meg or
more just to hump a few thousand blocks of data over a serial port.
-ethan
12:06 p.m.
I needed to dump/load disk images from my RK05's using a PDP-11/10. I
ended up writing my own facility that transfers the raw blocks over a
serial port to a modern machine. The utility is in rough shape from a user
point of view and only does RK05's, but it does use a CRC-32 to ensure the
blocks do not get transferred over a serial port. I can send the details
to anyone who is interested.
--barrym
On Thu, Aug 7, 2014 at 9:48 AM, Ethan Dicks <ethan.dicks at gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, Aug 7, 2014 at 9:43 AM, Julian Wolfe
<julian at twinax.org> wrote:
I have a copy that I had already typed out for
the 11/34 console, I will
try to dig that up this evening
I would be interested in that. What are the memory requirements?
ISTR that was one thing about vtserver is the PDP-11 end needed a
little bit of RAM.
I've glanced at the code and wondered if there wasn't a way to bring
things down to 56K if one chose a specific disk driver and no frills,
just to expand the range of machines that are possible to use for
archiving. Since vtserver was written to place a bootable image on a
machine that had enough RAM to run UNIX, there wasn't much need to
economize, but if the purpose is archiving, one doesn't need a meg or
more just to hump a few thousand blocks of data over a serial port.
-ethan
12:41 p.m.
I would be interested in that. What are the memory
requirements? ISTR
that was one thing about vtserver is the PDP-11 end needed a little bit
of RAM.
I've imaged a number of RD54 disks using vtserver, though I haven't done
anything with it on an 11/34.
As to size, the "vtserver boot" is on the order of 100 bytes, and the
vtserver iecopy binary which is transferred into the pdp is only 21kB or
so. It's been a while and memory fades, but I'm pretty sure you can
just shovel iecopy down without loading boot first. If you _do_ need
boot, it's another 37kB.
De
noon
On Aug 6, 2014, at 5:45 PM, Roe Peterson
<roeapeterson at gmail.com> wrote:
Has anyone ever used vtserver to copy a physical pdp11 disk to an image
file?
I know it is usually used in the other direction, copying an image to a
real disk.
A local pdp11/34 has popped up, and there are several RK05 packs
I desperately want images of.
Also, I seem to remember some discussion of a version that could auto boot
with the 11/34 console emulator, instead of ODT...
As always, thanks for any info.
Maybe I misunderstand the question, but if you have a spare DL11-W
that you can put in the /34, configure it at 176500 / 300 (IIRC).
Then the /34 thinks there is a TU58. Get Don North's TU58EM.
You can boot the /34 from the virtual "TU58" *and* then dump
(piece by piece) the RK05 to the second attached virtual TU58 tape.
It's not fast, but it works.
Another option, if you have that hardware, is the RX01EMUL board,
with an M105 and M7821. That connects to a PC parallel port and
mimics an RX01 floppy drive.
I have never tried to boot a PDP-11 via RX01EMUL though.
I *did* boot an 11/34 using TU58EM from a Toshiba "laptop"
(VHS cassette sized mini PC). Was kinda fun to see a big computer
boot from such a tiny PC. Nowadays you could use a Raspberry, etc.
- Henk
5:01 p.m.
On 8/7/2014 9:00 AM, Henk wrote:
Hey Henk long time ...
At 9600b (max standard rate of a DL11-W) it is not fast. However, a
DL11-W can
be modded to support 115.2Kb fairly easily (new UART, remove one chip in
baud
divider and replace with a wire, and a new crystal oscillator). I have
done this for
my 11/34 and I can now boot XXDP in about 15 seconds (vs 3 min at 9600b).
There is at least one bootable RT-11 TU58 image floating around that has had
the tweak to support 32MB (ie, 16 bit block number) image size, so using
this
image you could copy a real RL02 to a TU58 RL02 sized image directly. At
115Kb
my math tells me it would take something like 15-20min to transfer a
10MB image.
An RK05 image (1.5MB IIRC) would be something like 3min.
On Aug 6,
2014, at 5:45 PM, Roe Peterson <roeapeterson at gmail.com> wrote:
Has anyone ever used vtserver to copy a physical pdp11 disk to an
image file?
I know it is usually used in the other direction, copying an image
to a real disk.
A local pdp11/34 has popped up, and there are several RK05 packs
I desperately want images of.
Also, I seem to remember some discussion of a version that could auto
boot
with the 11/34 console emulator, instead of ODT...
As always, thanks for any info.
Maybe I misunderstand the question, but if you have a spare DL11-W
that you can put in the /34, configure it at 176500 / 300 (IIRC).
Then the /34 thinks there is a TU58. Get Don North's TU58EM.
You can boot the /34 from the virtual "TU58" *and* then dump
(piece by piece) the RK05 to the second attached virtual TU58 tape.
It's not fast, but it works. Another option, if you have that hardware, is the
RX01EMUL board,
with an M105 and M7821. That connects to a PC parallel port and
mimics an RX01 floppy drive.
I have never tried to boot a PDP-11 via RX01EMUL though.
I *did* boot an 11/34 using TU58EM from a Toshiba "laptop"
(VHS cassette sized mini PC). Was kinda fun to see a big computer
boot from such a tiny PC. Nowadays you could use a Raspberry, etc.
There is a guy who has ported TU58 emulator code to Arduino, uses SD card
for storage: http://www.torok.info/computing/pdp11/tu58/index.htm
- Henk
8 Aug
8 Aug
10:15 a.m.
Hi Don,
What else have you tested at 115K baud? I'm looking to do the mod myself,
and am curious about the drawbacks.
Julian
On Thu, Aug 7, 2014 at 4:01 PM, Don North <ak6dn at mindspring.com> wrote:
On 8/7/2014 9:00 AM, Henk wrote:
On Aug 6, 2014, at 5:45 PM, Roe Peterson
<roeapeterson at gmail.com> wrote:
Hey Henk long time ...
At 9600b (max standard rate of a DL11-W) it is not fast. However, a DL11-W
can
be modded to support 115.2Kb fairly easily (new UART, remove one chip in
baud
divider and replace with a wire, and a new crystal oscillator). I have
done this for
my 11/34 and I can now boot XXDP in about 15 seconds (vs 3 min at 9600b).
There is at least one bootable RT-11 TU58 image floating around that has
had
the tweak to support 32MB (ie, 16 bit block number) image size, so using
this
image you could copy a real RL02 to a TU58 RL02 sized image directly. At
115Kb
my math tells me it would take something like 15-20min to transfer a 10MB
image.
An RK05 image (1.5MB IIRC) would be something like 3min.
Another option, if you have that hardware, is the RX01EMUL board,
Has anyone ever used vtserver to copy a physical pdp11 disk to an image
file?
I know it is usually used in the other direction, copying an image to a
real disk.
A local pdp11/34 has popped up, and there are several RK05 packs
I desperately want images of.
Also, I seem to remember some discussion of a version that could auto
boot
with the 11/34 console emulator, instead of ODT...
As always, thanks for any info.
Maybe I misunderstand the question, but if you have a spare DL11-W
that you can put in the /34, configure it at 176500 / 300 (IIRC).
Then the /34 thinks there is a TU58. Get Don North's TU58EM.
You can boot the /34 from the virtual "TU58" *and* then dump
(piece by piece) the RK05 to the second attached virtual TU58 tape.
It's not fast, but it works.
with an M105 and M7821. That connects to a PC
parallel port and
mimics an RX01 floppy drive.
I have never tried to boot a PDP-11 via RX01EMUL though.
I *did* boot an 11/34 using TU58EM from a Toshiba "laptop"
(VHS cassette sized mini PC). Was kinda fun to see a big computer
boot from such a tiny PC. Nowadays you could use a Raspberry, etc.
There is a guy who has ported TU58 emulator code to Arduino, uses SD card
for storage: http://www.torok.info/computing/pdp11/tu58/index.htm
- Henk
10:27 a.m.
At 9600b (max standard rate of a DL11-W) it is not
fast. However, a
DL11-W can be modded to support 115.2Kb fairly easily (new UART, remove
one chip in baud divider and replace with a wire, and a new crystal
oscillator). I have done this for my 11/34 and I can now boot XXDP in
about 15 seconds (vs 3 min at 9600b).
Don,
I'm curious about the details here. Can the /34 actually keep up doing
PIO at this rate? Or are you using DMA somehow? Is this vtserver or
one of the TU58 things or something else? 115.2k isn't one of the
results of the retrocmp.com mod; is yours described anywhere?
Who? What? Where? *flashbulbs* *pack of paparazzi* :)
De
3:11 p.m.
On Aug 8, 2014, at 8:27 AM, Dennis Boone <drb at msu.edu> wrote:
No chance whatever of DMA, the DL11 doesn't support it. However, single-task PIO mode
would only have to shuffle bytes at 11,000 per second, probably doable.
At 9600b (max
standard rate of a DL11-W) it is not fast. However, a
DL11-W can be modded to support 115.2Kb fairly easily (new UART, remove
one chip in baud divider and replace with a wire, and a new crystal
oscillator). I have done this for my 11/34 and I can now boot XXDP in
about 15 seconds (vs 3 min at 9600b).
Don,
I'm curious about the details here. Can the /34 actually keep up doing
PIO at this rate? Or are you using DMA somehow?
3636
days inactive
3638
days old
9 comments
7 participants
participants (7)
-
ak6dn＠mindspring.com -
drb＠msu.edu -
ethan.dicks＠gmail.com -
henk.gooijen＠hotmail.com -
iamvirtual＠gmail.com -
julian＠twinax.org -
roeapeterson＠gmail.com