1 Feb
2008
1 Feb
'08
1:38 p.m.
My last comment on this bit of absurdity is
from Bob Supnik, who would have been in the
position to know as one of the senior VAX
engineers in the 80's.
I didn't even bother asking if a PDP-11 version
of OS/2 existed.
--
No, there was no VAX version of OS/2.
And a luggable wasn't done on my watch.
No idea who Dan Gahlinger is, either.
Does he have a "VAXmate" (which was really a
PC, and could run OS/2) confused with a VAX?
Now, if he means "luggable like a Rainbow",
which was just a PC chassis without keyboard or monitor,
then there were tons of those - every VAXstation looked
more or less like a Rainbow, since they all came out of
the same industrial design group ("any color you want,
as long as its beige"). If he means a real luggable,
with a built in monitor and keyboard, I never saw one.
But the VAXstation 2000 was fairly small, only slightly
bigger than a DECmate, so repackaging it with a fold out
keyboard and a small monitor would have been possible,
if some government group wanted one.
/Bob
2 Feb
2 Feb
5:56 p.m.
And a luggable wasn't done on my watch.
All this talk about a luggable VAX - maybe he's thinking of the AlphaBook.
It was circa 1996, a laptop, and it ran VMS, so one might easily think it
was a VAX. It wasn't a VAX, of course, it was an Alpha, but that's close
:-)
Bob Armstrong
7:45 p.m.
At 5:56 PM -0800 2/2/08, Bob Armstrong wrote:
All this talk about a luggable VAX - maybe he's
thinking of the AlphaBook.
It was circa 1996, a laptop, and it ran VMS, so one might easily think it
was a VAX. It wasn't a VAX, of course, it was an Alpha, but that's close
:-)
Also virtually unobtainable. At this point you're better off running
an emulator on a nice new & fast laptop.
Zane
--
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh at aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| MONK::HEALYZH (DECnet) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
3 Feb
3 Feb
7:52 a.m.
New subject: compaq portable plus problems
Hi guys
does anyone know the correct incantation to low level format an MFM
drive, a rodime 351, driven by a Compaq controller board.
I,ve tried with debug G=C800:5 to no avail. there is no format program
there!.
The driver board has no real description on it, just
Compaq computer corp 1983 and assy 61-031074-00
Any ideas???
thanks
roger
8:08 a.m.
New subject: compaq portable plus problems
Should work, the controller is a Western Digital, I don't know about the
Rodime drive, but I've done is numerous times with Seagate drives:
debug command g=c800:5
You should get into the WD monitor ROM and be able to do a low level,
make sure you set the interleave correctly, I've used 3:1 as it was
always a safe setting.
Curt
Roger Pugh wrote:
Hi guys
does anyone know the correct incantation to low level format an MFM
drive, a rodime 351, driven by a Compaq controller board.
I,ve tried with debug G=C800:5 to no avail. there is no format
program there!.
The driver board has no real description on it, just
Compaq computer corp 1983 and assy 61-031074-00
Any ideas???
thanks
roger
9:06 a.m.
New subject: compaq portable plus problems
On 3 Feb 2008, at 16:08, Curt @ Atari Museum wrote:
Should work, the controller is a Western Digital, I
don't know about
the Rodime drive, but I've done is numerous times with Seagate drives:
debug command g=c800:5
You should get into the WD monitor ROM and be able to do a low level,
make sure you set the interleave correctly, I've used 3:1 as it was
always a safe setting.
Roger Pugh wrote:
> Hi guys
>
> does anyone know the correct incantation to low level format an MFM
> drive, a rodime 351, driven by a Compaq controller board.
>
> I,ve tried with debug G=C800:5 to no avail. there is no format
> program there!.
> The driver board has no real description on it, just
>
> Compaq computer corp 1983 and assy 61-031074-00
>
checking on debug, d=c000:0 the rom is compaq with no refrence to
western digital, although the board contains WD silicon. |I think i
have a homegrown compaq product here. i know it was original in the
m/c along with the HD. Debug just locks up after calling the program.
roger
9:17 a.m.
New subject: compaq portable plus problems
Hmmm...... What you need is a copy of the orig CPQ System Utilities
diskette that shipped with the Portable, it would've had hdformat.com on
it to do a low-level on the HD... I'm trying to think if early PC-DOS
2.21 (I think it was a powdery pink colored label DOS diskette) may have
had a generic low level formatter on it.
Curt
Roger Pugh wrote:
On 3 Feb 2008, at 16:08, Curt @ Atari Museum wrote:
Should work, the controller is a Western Digital,
I don't know about
the Rodime drive, but I've done is numerous times with Seagate drives:
debug command g=c800:5
You should get into the WD monitor ROM and be able to do a low level,
make sure you set the interleave correctly, I've used 3:1 as it was
always a safe setting.
Roger Pugh wrote:
> Hi guys
>
> does anyone know the correct incantation to low level format an MFM
> drive, a rodime 351, driven by a Compaq controller board.
>
> I,ve tried with debug G=C800:5 to no avail. there is no format
> program there!.
> The driver board has no real description on it, just
>
> Compaq computer corp 1983 and assy 61-031074-00
>
checking on debug, d=c000:0 the rom is compaq with no refrence to
western digital, although the board contains WD silicon. |I think i
have a homegrown compaq product here. i know it was original in the
m/c along with the HD. Debug just locks up after calling the program.
roger
2:49 p.m.
New subject: compaq portable plus problems
On Sun, 3 Feb 2008, Curt @ Atari Museum wrote:
Hmmm...... What you need is a copy of the orig CPQ
System Utilities
diskette that shipped with the Portable, it would've had hdformat.com on
it to do a low-level on the HD... I'm trying to think if early PC-DOS
2.21 (I think it was a powdery pink colored label DOS diskette) may have
had a generic low level formatter on it.
NO version of PC-DOS (and there wasn't a 2.21) ever came with a low level
formatter, and certainly NEVER generic on PC-DOS.
With PC-DOS, the low level formatter was included in the "ADVANCED
DIAGNOSTICS"
With MS-DOS, NOT PC-DOS, it is possible to have generics, etc.
Compaq had their own set of bootable "Diagnostics".
Most "generic" hard disk format programs won't work with Compaq.
3:24 p.m.
New subject: compaq portable plus problems
Thanks clearing that up Fred, its been a long time and I wasn't sure.
Curt
Fred Cisin wrote:
On Sun, 3 Feb 2008, Curt @ Atari Museum wrote:
Hmmm...... What you need is a copy of the orig
CPQ System Utilities
diskette that shipped with the Portable, it would've had hdformat.com on
it to do a low-level on the HD... I'm trying to think if early PC-DOS
2.21 (I think it was a powdery pink colored label DOS diskette) may have
had a generic low level formatter on it.
NO version of PC-DOS (and there wasn't a 2.21) ever came with a low level
formatter, and certainly NEVER generic on PC-DOS.
With PC-DOS, the low level formatter was included in the "ADVANCED
DIAGNOSTICS"
With MS-DOS, NOT PC-DOS, it is possible to have generics, etc.
Compaq had their own set of bootable "Diagnostics".
Most "generic" hard disk format programs won't work with Compaq.
6:05 p.m.
New subject: compaq portable plus problems
Hi
If worst came to worst, one could write there own low level formatter.
To my knowledge, there were only two types of MFM controller
port maps used. Once you get the address mapping, low level format
isn't that hard to write.
Dwight
_________________________________________________________________
Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live.
http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008
4 Feb
4 Feb
3:24 a.m.
New subject: compaq portable plus problems
If worst came to worst, one could write there own low
level formatter.
To my knowledge, there were only two types of MFM controller
port maps used. Once you get the address mapping, low level format
isn't that hard to write.
Why not use spinrite? :o)
1:49 p.m.
New subject: compaq portable plus problems
Thanks for your help guys.. I think i will try spinrite if i can find
a copy. i used to have it!!!! For now, i think i will try an 8bit ide
card i have, other options will be replacing the HD and card with
either a Hardcard or an 8bit scsi system
Thanks again for your advise
Roger
2:17 p.m.
New subject: compaq portable plus problems
On Mon, 4 Feb 2008, Roger Pugh wrote:
Thanks for your help guys.. I think i will try
spinrite if i can find
a copy. i used to have it!!!! For now, i think i will try an 8bit ide
card i have, other options will be replacing the HD and card with
either a Hardcard or an 8bit scsi system
Thanks again for your advise
Spinrite has a few strangwe issues, including not always respecting
manually locked out clusters.
Speedstor is somewhat better for the purpose.
3 Feb
3 Feb
9:24 a.m.
New subject: compaq portable plus problems
Roger,
If you're seeing a WD controller on the board, c800:5 should be
correct, it is for WD and Seagate. You can try c800:6 which was
mostly for Storage Technologies and Adaptec controllers, its worth a shot...
Curt
Roger Pugh wrote:
On 3 Feb 2008, at 16:08, Curt @ Atari Museum wrote:
Should work, the controller is a Western Digital,
I don't know about
the Rodime drive, but I've done is numerous times with Seagate drives:
debug command g=c800:5
You should get into the WD monitor ROM and be able to do a low level,
make sure you set the interleave correctly, I've used 3:1 as it was
always a safe setting.
Roger Pugh wrote:
> Hi guys
>
> does anyone know the correct incantation to low level format an MFM
> drive, a rodime 351, driven by a Compaq controller board.
>
> I,ve tried with debug G=C800:5 to no avail. there is no format
> program there!.
> The driver board has no real description on it, just
>
> Compaq computer corp 1983 and assy 61-031074-00
>
checking on debug, d=c000:0 the rom is compaq with no refrence to
western digital, although the board contains WD silicon. |I think i
have a homegrown compaq product here. i know it was original in the
m/c along with the HD. Debug just locks up after calling the program.
roger
2:35 p.m.
New subject: compaq portable plus problems
On Sun, 3 Feb 2008, Roger Pugh wrote:
does anyone know the correct incantation to low level
format an MFM
drive, a rodime 351, driven by a Compaq controller board.
I,ve tried with debug G=C800:5 to no avail. there is no format program
there!.
The driver board has no real description on it, just
Compaq computer corp 1983 and assy 61-031074-00
Any ideas???
I don't remember where they hid the FORMAT program,
but SPEEDSTORE will do the job.
14 Mar
14 Mar
3:52 p.m.
New subject: compaq portable plus problems
Just an update on this problem i was having. I obtained another WD MFM
card with LL format program, formated the original Rodime and all is
working. It seems the problem was with the Compaq controler.
Thanks for your help guys
Roger
On 3 Feb 2008, at 15:52, Roger Pugh wrote:
Hi guys
does anyone know the correct incantation to low level format an MFM
drive, a rodime 351, driven by a Compaq controller board.
I,ve tried with debug G=C800:5 to no avail. there is no format
program there!.
The driver board has no real description on it, just
Compaq computer corp 1983 and assy 61-031074-00
Any ideas???
thanks
roger
5 Feb
5 Feb
11:23 a.m.
that doesn't mean a whole lot.
there are lots of products DEC sales people and engineers didn't know about.
I even showed them a few times, items they said DEC never had.
But customers had them.
I know what it was, it was a true luggable-style device. not a vaxstation and not Vaxmate
or something like that.
but again, it's been 30 years.
the one I saw 30 years ago, was sourced in a city 200km from me, and I've lost all
contacts there, if it even still exists.
If I could get it, I would.
as for OS/2, I never claimed it was actually OS/2 for PDP-11. All I said was, there was a
TK-50 for the PDP-11 with the OS2 files on it.
which I (and others) thought was truly bizarre.
So please stop trying to twist my words.
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 13:38:31 -0800
From: aek at bitsavers.org
To: classiccmp at classiccmp.org
CC:
Subject: Re: Any word on OS/2 for PDP-11?
My last comment on this bit of absurdity is
from Bob Supnik, who would have been in the
position to know as one of the senior VAX
engineers in the 80's.
I didn't even bother asking if a PDP-11 version
of OS/2 existed.
--
No, there was no VAX version of OS/2.
And a luggable wasn't done on my watch.
No idea who Dan Gahlinger is, either.
Does he have a "VAXmate" (which was really a
PC, and could run OS/2) confused with a VAX?
Now, if he means "luggable like a Rainbow",
which was just a PC chassis without keyboard or monitor,
then there were tons of those - every VAXstation looked
more or less like a Rainbow, since they all came out of
the same industrial design group ("any color you want,
as long as its beige"). If he means a real luggable,
with a built in monitor and keyboard, I never saw one.
But the VAXstation 2000 was fairly small, only slightly
bigger than a DECmate, so repackaging it with a fold out
keyboard and a small monitor would have been possible,
if some government group wanted one.
/Bob
_________________________________________________________________
6:25 p.m.
On Tue, 5 Feb 2008, Dan Gahlinger wrote:
I know what it was, it was a true luggable-style
device. not a
vaxstation and not Vaxmate or something like that.
I did once see a prototype for something called a "Tubemate". Imagine
the DECmate III/MicroVAX 2000 box with a small wide-format CRT instead
of the front panel; something that could do, say, 80x12 instead of
80x24. This was allegedly a DECmate variant, however, rather than a VAX.
I don't know how far it was developed; it may have just been a
conceptual mockup. I saw it gathering dust in the office of a DEC engineer
one time I visited the mill.
--
roger ivie
rivie at ridgenet.net
8:08 p.m.
New subject: DEC Tubemate?!? (was Re: Any word on OS/2 for PDP-11?)
On Tue, Feb 05, 2008 at 06:25:48PM -0800, Roger Ivie wrote:
I did once see a prototype for something called a
"Tubemate". Imagine
the DECmate III/MicroVAX 2000 box with a small wide-format CRT instead
of the front panel; something that could do, say, 80x12 instead of
80x24. This was allegedly a DECmate variant, however, rather than a VAX.
Hmm... I'm having problems envisioning it... I don't think of the
DECmate or the uVAX2K as having a "front panel". Do you mean that there
was a wee CRT behind the flap, in the 5.25"-wide space where the drives
go? The VT50 was 80x12, so it's not like there wouldn't be any software
that expected to see such a screen, but most apps, I'd think, would want
the "full" 24 lines.
You say "wide format" - so there was room for either an RX33 or RD31/RD32
_and_ the CRT in that space? How odd.
I don't know how far it was developed; it may have
just been a
conceptual mockup. I saw it gathering dust in the office of a DEC engineer
one time I visited the mill.
Did you ever get a sense of who the product would be for or what need it
would fill?
These days, it wouldn't be difficult to come up with a graphical 640x128
LCD panel to fit the space, and a circuit to drive the panel as an 80x12
(or 80x16) text screen that serially attaches to the DECmate, and honors
either VT52 or VT100 control strings - sort of a specialty version of
the universal terminal project that's come up here.
That brings us back to _why_ - who would have wanted such a beast. If
there's a good answer, I have half a mind to put one together at some
point in the future, but I just can figure out why it's better than using
a DECmate or uVAX2000 with a portable LCD or EL-display terminal (like
my ELT-320).
-ethan
--
Ethan Dicks, A-333-S Current South Pole Weather at 6-Feb-2008 at 03:40 Z
South Pole Station
PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -46.1 F (-43.4 C) Windchill -73.6 F (-58.6 C)
APO AP 96598 Wind 9.0 kts Grid 52 Barometer 674.4 mb (10840 ft)
Ethan.Dicks at usap.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html
9:37 p.m.
New subject: DEC Tubemate?!? (was Re: Any word on OS/2 for PDP-11?)
On Wed, 6 Feb 2008, Ethan Dicks wrote:
On Tue, Feb 05, 2008 at 06:25:48PM -0800, Roger Ivie wrote:
I mean that it had a tube in place of the front of the box. There were
no drives poking out the front. The tube took up the whole front of the
box:
+------------------------------------+
|+----------------------------------+|
|| ||
|| wide, short tube ||
|| ||
|+----------------------------------+|
+------------------------------------+
Thinking about it, it might have been just a monitor intended to stack
on top of the DECmate III; that wouldn't need drives or much inside
besides the power supply and the tube.
--
roger ivie
rivie at ridgenet.net
I did once see a prototype for something called a
"Tubemate". Imagine
the DECmate III/MicroVAX 2000 box with a small wide-format CRT instead
of the front panel; something that could do, say, 80x12 instead of
80x24. This was allegedly a DECmate variant, however, rather than a VAX.
Hmm... I'm having problems envisioning it... I don't think of the
DECmate or the uVAX2K as having a "front panel". Do you mean that there
was a wee CRT behind the flap, in the 5.25"-wide space where the drives
go? The VT50 was 80x12, so it's not like there wouldn't be any software
that expected to see such a screen, but most apps, I'd think, would want
the "full" 24 lines.
10:02 p.m.
New subject: DEC Tubemate?!? (was Re: Any word on OS/2 for PDP-11?)
On Tue, Feb 05, 2008 at 09:37:59PM -0800, Roger Ivie wrote:
On Wed, 6 Feb 2008, Ethan Dicks wrote:
>Hmm... I'm having problems envisioning it... I don't think of the
>DECmate or the uVAX2K as having a "front panel". Do you mean that there
>was a wee CRT behind the flap, in the 5.25"-wide space where the drives
>go?
I mean that it had a tube in place of the front of the
box. There were
no drives poking out the front. The tube took up the whole front of the
box:
+------------------------------------+
|+----------------------------------+|
|| ||
|| wide, short tube ||
|| ||
|+----------------------------------+|
+------------------------------------+
Thinking about it, it might have been just a monitor intended to stack
on top of the DECmate III; that wouldn't need drives or much inside
besides the power supply and the tube.
Ah... that makes a lot of sense - I suppose the advantage would be modularity.
OTOH, a VR201 sits on the top box quite nicely, and was probably already
a standard product by then.
Interesting prototype to hear about. It's a new on one me.
-ethan
--
Ethan Dicks, A-333-S Current South Pole Weather at 6-Feb-2008 at 06:00 Z
South Pole Station
PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -46.1 F (-43.4 C) Windchill -73.3 F (-58.5 C)
APO AP 96598 Wind 8.8 kts Grid 70 Barometer 674.3 mb (10844 ft)
Ethan.Dicks at usap.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html
6127
days inactive
6169
days old
21 comments
11 participants
participants (11)
-
aek＠bitsavers.org -
alexandre-listas＠e-secure.com.br -
bob＠jfcl.com -
cisin＠xenosoft.com -
curt＠atarimuseum.com -
dgahling＠hotmail.com -
dkelvey＠hotmail.com -
ethan.dicks＠usap.gov -
healyzh＠aracnet.com -
rivie＠ridgenet.net -
rogpugh＠mac.com