20 Sep
1998
20 Sep
'98
3:19 p.m.
Well, sorta.. I have found a wonderful EDSAC simulator that
runs on Windows or Mac. It presents you with the 'front panel' of
the machine.. a CRT that 'looks' at the various memory delay tanks,
other register displays, and some control buttons. One 'punches'
programs into files, which are then presented to the sim and away it
goes. Even (corny) sound effects. It emulates the machine as it
existed in the 1949 - 50 time range.
It is a 1.873 Mb file that explodes into the program and demo
files, as well as two .pdf docs explaining everything.
It can be had at: www.ocs.warwick.ac.uk/~edsac
I have been playing with it on and off all day today.
Sam: Possibly a neat item at VCF II would be to have a box running
this simulator... it certainly gives instant awareness of what it
was like back in the Old Days.
Certainly on topic, I guess... ;}
Cheers
John
20 Sep
20 Sep
4:38 p.m.
On Sun, 20 Sep 1998, John Lawson wrote:
It can be had at: www.ocs.warwick.ac.uk/~edsac
s/ocs/dcs
Sam: Possibly a neat item at VCF II would be to have a
box running
this simulator... it certainly gives instant awareness of what it
was like back in the Old Days.
Simulators are the single best way to preserve classic machines for
future generations. Of course, once the hosts the simulations run on are
themselves obsolete, you've got a problem. So, IMHO, all simulators
should be written in Java so that there's a good chance they'll run on
future machines.
-- Doug
5:18 p.m.
On Sun, 20 Sep 1998, Doug Yowza wrote:
Simulators are the single best way to preserve classic
machines for
future generations. Of course, once the hosts the simulations run on are
themselves obsolete, you've got a problem. So, IMHO, all simulators
should be written in Java so that there's a good chance they'll run on
future machines.
This in itself is a pretty big assumption.
The most absolute way to ensure old machine simulators live on is by
developing a human-understable pseudo-programming language that's based on
logic flow diagrams, then converting all the simulators into this
language, then getting it standardized, then fending off all the microsoft
"improvements", then suing them for corrupting the language...
Or just write them in BASIC. Everyone knows BASIC, and despite best
efforts, its not going away.
BASIC RULES!
Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.
September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
[Last web site update: 09/12/98]
5:23 p.m.
The most absolute way to ensure old machine simulators
live on is by
developing a human-understable pseudo-programming language that's based on
logic flow diagrams, then converting all the simulators into this
language, then getting it standardized, then fending off all the microsoft
"improvements", then suing them for corrupting the language...
Or just write them in BASIC. Everyone knows BASIC, and despite best
efforts, its not going away.
I would pick ANSI C. It is not going away either, has a formal standard,
and if coded properly (not straying from the ANSI standard), will be
portable.
BASIC RULES!
What are the BASIC rules?
William Donzelli
william(a)ans.net
5:29 p.m.
On Mon, 21 Sep 1998, William Donzelli wrote:
I vote for ANSI Logo, and if ANSI has not formalized a standard for Logo,
then ANSI PILOT.
Use as many GOTOs as it takes to confuse the hell out of the next guy.
Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.
September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
[Last web site update: 09/12/98]
Or just write
them in BASIC. Everyone knows BASIC, and despite best
efforts, its not going away.
I would pick ANSI C. It is not going away either, has a formal standard,
and if coded properly (not straying from the ANSI standard), will be
portable. BASIC RULES!
What are the BASIC rules?
5:55 p.m.
Or just write
them in BASIC. Everyone knows BASIC, and despite best
efforts, its not going away.
I would pick ANSI C. It is not going away either, has a formal standard,
and if coded properly (not straying from the ANSI standard), will be
portable.
6 p.m.
On Mon, 21 Sep 1998, Doug Yowza wrote:
Most of the simulators written today are being
distributed as Win95
executables. Forty years from now, if your kids are faced with writing a
Win95 emulator before they can run the Edsac emulator, they will lose
interest in the Edsac before you can say "convoluted API".
Don't you mean "grand-kids" old timer?
Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.
September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
[Last web site update: 09/12/98]
6:16 p.m.
At the risk of starting a flame war, yes Java is universal. It works
universally badly on every machine I've seen. The days of a lingua
franca for computers are not yet here, I think. And with microsoft
inventing their own extensions and protocols it's not likely to BE upon
us any time soon.
[-snip-]
lengthy rant about microsoft and spammers and so forth deleted.
[-snip-]
--
Jim Strickland
jim(a)calico.litterbox.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
6:30 p.m.
On Mon, 21 Sep 1998, Jim wrote:
At the risk of starting a flame war, yes Java is
universal. It works
universally badly on every machine I've seen. The days of a lingua
franca for computers are not yet here, I think. And with microsoft
inventing their own extensions and protocols it's not likely to BE upon
us any time soon.
Don't confuse performance issues with the value of a well-documented
execution environment that was designed to be emulated!
It is in Microsoft's interest to "embrace and extend" any standard they
didn't invent, and that means that they will never offer a standard Java
and it probably means that Internet Explorer will intentionally choke on
standard Java, but that won't significantly detract from the long-term
benefit of having a standard Java. If Java didn't exist, it would be our
duty as preservers-by-simulation to invent it.
-- Doug
7:15 p.m.
Doug Yowza wrote:
May a standards group visit both your houses! (Ancient Swiss curse.)
Java is the closest thing we've got today to an architecture-neutral
executable environment. The Java machine is very well documented, and the
environment has goodies like a GUI and networking defined as well.
Neither BASIC nor C nor anything else today has those things going for it.
Most of the simulators written today are being distributed as Win95
executables. Forty years from now, if your kids are faced with writing a
Win95 emulator before they can run the Edsac emulator, they will lose
interest in the Edsac before you can say "convoluted API".
I guess I spend too much time not dealing with what's distributed
_today_. I've got a bunch of emulators, and most of them are MSDOS
executables. (Some are for MAC and ST etc -- I do like variety).
I have yet to see a Win-95-specific TRS-80 or CoCo emulator. (The Java
TRS-80 emulator I've seen needs a _LOT_ of work).
--
Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/>
When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked me if I had any
firearms with me. I said "Well, what do you need?" -- Steven Wright
Or just
write them in BASIC. Everyone knows BASIC, and despite best
efforts, its not going away.
I would pick ANSI C. It is not going away either, has a formal standard,
and if coded properly (not straying from the ANSI standard), will be
portable.
21 Sep
21 Sep
2:30 a.m.
May a standards group visit both your houses! (Ancient
Swiss curse.)
Java is the closest thing we've got today to an architecture-neutral
executable environment. The Java machine is very well documented, and the
environment has goodies like a GUI and networking defined as well.
Neither BASIC nor C nor anything else today has those things going for it.
C is well established, Java is not. People keep worrying about what the
different companies will do to extend or change Java. When Java gets to be
a truely standard, then I might say OK.
William Donzelli
william(a)ans.net
1:55 a.m.
On Mon, 21 Sep 1998 01:23:44 -0400 (EDT)
William Donzelli <william(a)ans.net> wrote:
Did they ever create a standard version of Basic like there is for C
(ansi c)?
--
============================================================---------
Dominique Cormann Email:kozmik@wave.home.com
Posted with Becky 1.24 --> http://www.rimarts.co.jp/becky.htm
BASIC RULES!
What are the BASIC rules? 
2:42 a.m.
On 21 Sep 98, at 9:55, Dominique Cormann wrote:
Did they ever create a standard version of Basic like
there is for C
(ansi c)?
Yes, there is an ANSI BASIC standard. There is a version out for
the PC (and the Mac I believe) called True BASIC which is ANSI
standard. I'm sure there were others too.
-----
David Williams - Computer Packrat
dlw(a)trailingedge.com
http://www.trailingedge.com
3 a.m.
[All sims should be written in Java]
Ha! If you expect me to try writing ka10 in that, you're nuts.
I'm having enough trouble with C...
(And keeping my crappy 486 up for more than 10 minutes so as to hack at it[1])
[1] No, Not Windoze. Linux, on failing hardware. The IO controller is giving
up every 10 minutes or so, and the keyboard controller is starting to fail.
I'm working on moving the project to my MicroVAX, but having console
difficulties.
-------
5:55 a.m.
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 1634 bytes
Desc: not available
Url :
http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980921/f8714978/at…
1:07 p.m.
At 06:55 PM 21-09-98 +0100, Tony Duell wrote:
Well some machines only exist in small numbers (or not at all) so a
simulator is one way of preserving the environment. Another difficulty is
that some desirable machines are a little large to own personally. The sort
of machines I'm talking about are Atlas, DECsystem-10s, CDC6600s and so on.
A simulator is at least better than just reading about them...
Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies(a)latrobe.edu.au
Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479
1999
La Trobe University | "If God had wanted soccer played in the
Melbourne Australia 3083 | air, the sky would be painted green"
Simulators are
the single best way to preserve classic machines for
future generations. Of course, once the hosts the simulations run on are
OK, I'll be polite. I strongly disagree with that statement! (I could be
a lot stronger than that...)
A simulator (in general) preserves one aspect of the machine - a platform
on which to run the original programs. What it doesn't preserve is any
feel of the hardware, any of the hardware techniques that were in use at
that time, the construction methods, etc.
1:27 p.m.
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 1963 bytes
Desc: not available
Url :
http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980922/8e5558da/at…
1:57 p.m.
Tony Duell wrote:
Well, I doubt if a DECsystem 10 would be larger than
the collection I
already have. So I would have thought it wouldn't be impossible to run
one personally.. Ditto for the other machines...
Yes, but as part-owner of a DECsystem 1090, I can assure you that storing
it is only a small portion of the problem. Powering it and cooling it are
very problematic. It wants around 8 KW (3-phase 220V at over 35A). And
guess what it does with all those kilowatts? It does any amazingly good
job at turning them almost entirely into heat. People have joked about
using it to heat my home in the winter, but in actuallity I'd have to keep
the air conditioner running.
Simulation may not be as exciting, but it certainly is more practical.
And besides, a simulated PDP-10 on a Pentium 2 is much faster than a real
PDP-10 :-)
Cheers,
Eric
4:45 p.m.
At 01:57 AM 22-09-98 +0000, Eric Smith wrote:
Yes, but as part-owner of a DECsystem 1090, I can
assure you that storing
it is only a small portion of the problem.
Indeedy. Our air conditioning plant was designed to cool one DECsystem-10
and it has been modified a couple of times as we replaced it with only five
or six largish VAXes and the cold deck kept freezing (even on 40C summer
days)...
Simulation may not be as exciting, but it certainly is
more practical.
And besides, a simulated PDP-10 on a Pentium 2 is much faster than a real
PDP-10 :-)
I guess this is a copy of the unobtainable -10 simulator? How does it model
disks etc?
Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies(a)latrobe.edu.au
Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479
1999
La Trobe University | "If God had wanted soccer played in the
Melbourne Australia 3083 | air, the sky would be painted green"
5:37 p.m.
New subject: PDP-10 (was Re: EDSAC on your desk.)
I wrote:
And besides, a simulated PDP-10 on a Pentium 2 is much
faster than a real
PDP-10 :-)
Huw Davies <H.Davies(a)latrobe.edu.au> wrote:
I guess this is a copy of the unobtainable -10
simulator?
It can't be too unobtainable, since I got a copy. It's not the KLH
simulator, if that's what you're thinking. It's Stu Grossman's kx10.
How does it model disks etc?
It simulates RP06 drives attached to an RH20 massbus channel, as would
be configured on a DECsystem-109x or a KL10-based DECSYSTEM-20.
It also simulates an NI20 (or is it NIA20? I've seen it both ways.)
Ethernet interface, using the BPF to assign a separate Ethernet MAC
address. It's nice being able to telnet into TOPS-20 again.
I haven't been in touch with Stu for a while; I don't know whether he
is getting any closer to releasing it.
Cheers,
Eric
22 Sep
22 Sep
2:16 p.m.
New subject: PDP-10 (was Re: EDSAC on your desk.)
At 05:37 AM 22-09-98 +0000, Eric Smith wrote:
I haven't been in touch with Stu for a while; I
don't know whether he
is getting any closer to releasing it.
I think there might be a few takers if it were available. I'd even buy a
Pentium based system to run it on (I've only got alphas at home....).
Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies(a)latrobe.edu.au
Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479
1999
La Trobe University | "If God had wanted soccer played in the
Melbourne Australia 3083 | air, the sky would be painted green"
12:53 a.m.
[Simulated 10 is easier to deal with]
This is the point behind ka10. I could never run a KL, I could try for a KS
but I have nowhere to put it either. Therefore, simulation is my only
method of screwing with ITS (Eventually).
-------
11:55 a.m.
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 1010 bytes
Desc: not available
Url :
http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980923/e72176cd/at…
12:51 p.m.
I wrote:
Yes, but as part-owner of a DECsystem 1090, I can
assure you that storing
it is only a small portion of the problem. Powering it and cooling it are
very problematic. It wants around 8 KW (3-phase 220V at over 35A). And
Tony Duell wrote:
Remember I'm in the UK -- 240V mains, and 30A
ring mains are common. In
other words running it from time to time would not be a major problem. I
suspect my 11/45 pulls half that amount of power, for example, with all
the peripherals I have on it.
The KL10 draws over 8 KW for the CPU card cage alone. That doesn't even
include the memory or memory adapters, I/O channels, PDP-11/40 front end, and
DECtape that happen to be in the same three-bay cabinet. The CPU is not
capable of executing a single instruction without all of this support.
It also does not include any disk drives, 9 track tape drives, or
communications system, all of which are necessary for it to function as
a usable system.
You may have 240V mains, but it's split phase, isn't it? The KL10 *needs*
three phase - the first stage power supply for the main CPU card cage
uses a three-phase rectifier arrangement to get I-forget-what DC voltage
(and I'm too lazy to lazy to calculate it). This DC voltage is then used
as input to the second stage. The end result is ten outputs of 5.2VDC at 35A,
and four outputs of 2VDC at 35A. A substantial portion of the 8KW is
converted to heat just in the power supply; only 2100W is actually available
to the logic.
I'm considering converting the machine to use switching power supplies,
as was done by Compuserve. Using VICOR modules, this would take five
front-end modules and fourteen DC-DC converter modules, for a cost of
around $2000. However, it would make the machine much less expensive to
operate. With this change, I thing it would be possible to power it from
a typical US electric range or clothes dryer circuit.
However, RP06 drives are another matter entirely. They need three-phase
power for their motors. I'm reluctant to try the capacitor trick.
Eric
1:47 p.m.
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 3169 bytes
Desc: not available
Url :
http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980923/78838223/at…
21 Sep
21 Sep
4:23 p.m.
Yes, but as part-owner of a DECsystem 1090, I can
assure you that
storing it is only a small portion of the problem. Powering it and
cooling it are very problematic. It wants around 8 KW (3-phase 220V at
over 35A). And guess what it does with all those kilowatts? It does any
amazingly good job at turning them almost entirely into heat. People
have joked about using it to heat my home in the winter, but in
actuallity I'd have to keep the air conditioner running.
That's why I'm looking to get a KS10...
Simulation may not be as exciting, but it certainly is
more practical.
And besides, a simulated PDP-10 on a Pentium 2 is much
faster than a real
PDP-10 :-)
Oh really? And how would you know that?
Megan Gentry
Former RT-11 Developer
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ |
| Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
p.s. I'm working on an emulator, and have actually had it running some
instructions to test it. On a P90 system, I'm getting about KA
speed... LOTS of work to go yet, so don't get your hopes up...
4:42 p.m.
At 02:27 AM 22-09-98 +0100, Tony Duell wrote:
Well, I doubt if a DECsystem 10 would be larger than
the collection I
already have. So I would have thought it wouldn't be impossible to run
one personally.. Ditto for the other machines...
It's just that there are so many circuits in a -10 that getting one to run
(even when new) required a full time field service engineer and with age
(our -10 was delivered in 1973 so if it were still here it'd be 25 years
old) I'd expect the probability of it running would be close to zero. The
maintenance fiche is about a foot deep....
True. The ideal situation would be for madmen like
ourselves to continue
preserving the real machines _and_ for simulators to be available.
Couldn't agree more, which is why you find a PDP-8A in my office although I
prefer the DECmate-II for home (less noisy if nothing else :-)
Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies(a)latrobe.edu.au
Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479
1999
La Trobe University | "If God had wanted soccer played in the
Melbourne Australia 3083 | air, the sky would be painted green"
5:31 p.m.
New subject: PDP-10 (was Re: EDSAC on your desk.)
Huw Davies <H.Davies(a)latrobe.edu.au> wrote:
It's just that there are so many circuits in a -10
that getting one to run
(even when new) required a full time field service engineer
As I recall, the 2060 I used to use ran for months at a time without needing
repair (i.e., just scheduled PM).
(our -10 was delivered in 1973 so if it were still
here it'd be 25 years
old)
Must have been a KI, then. I'm told that those were relatively easy to keep
running (at least compared to the KL).
I'd expect the probability of it running would be
close to zero. The
maintenance fiche is about a foot deep....
A former DEC field service engineer has told me that I'm a madman for wanting
to try, but he didn't put the probability anywhere near that low. The
system was in perfect working order when it was decommissioned, and not
much has happened to it since. Aside from testing the power supplies and
checking for oxidation on the connectors, I'm not really expecting that
much to be wrong with it. And I think I know where to find spare modules
if it is necessary.
Cheers,
Eric
22 Sep
22 Sep
2:14 p.m.
New subject: PDP-10 (was Re: EDSAC on your desk.)
At 05:31 AM 22-09-98 +0000, Eric Smith wrote:
Huw Davies <H.Davies(a)latrobe.edu.au> wrote:
Indeed it was a KI. We had weekly scheduled PMs. During this period, apart
It's just that there are so many circuits in
a -10 that getting one to run
(even when new) required a full time field service engineer
As I recall, the 2060 I used to use ran for months at a time without needing
repair (i.e., just scheduled PM).
(our -10 was delivered in 1973 so if it were
still here it'd be 25 years
old)
Must have been a KI, then. I'm told that those were relatively easy to keep
running (at least compared to the KL). from anything else, the engineer checked for defective
bulbs. I seem to
recall that he used to replace 10 or so each week. (For those of
you not
fortunate enough to see a -10, ours consisted of about 25 cabinets, each of
which had a minimum of 144 bulbs. That makes for lots of bulbs....
A former DEC field service engineer has told me that
I'm a madman for wanting
to try, but he didn't put the probability anywhere near that low. The
system was in perfect working order when it was decommissioned, and not
much has happened to it since. Aside from testing the power supplies and
checking for oxidation on the connectors, I'm not really expecting that
much to be wrong with it. And I think I know where to find spare modules
if it is necessary.
Access to spare modules is a must. Lack of such access is one of the
reasons why I doubt most informed users would be able to run a -10. You
would ideally need access to a former -10 engineer who can fill you in on
all the "tricks". I've never done maintenance on a -10 but I did look after
three VAX-8800s for three years. Spare parts and a sympathetic engineer
were essential. The problem was at the end of three years, I got a
reputation as someone who knew about 8800s and people used to ask me
questions :-)
Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies(a)latrobe.edu.au
Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479
1999
La Trobe University | "If God had wanted soccer played in the
Melbourne Australia 3083 | air, the sky would be painted green"
2:22 p.m.
New subject: PDP-10 (was Re: EDSAC on your desk.)
Huw Davies <H.Davies(a)latrobe.edu.au> wrote:
Indeed it was a KI. We had weekly scheduled PMs.
During this period, apart
from anything else, the engineer checked for defective bulbs. I seem to
recall that he used to replace 10 or so each week. (For those of you not
fortunate enough to see a -10, ours consisted of about 25 cabinets, each of
which had a minimum of 144 bulbs. That makes for lots of bulbs....
What a waste of time! Even on the KA10 I used, the bulbs had been replaced
with LEDs. There were several companies that made LEDs packaged with
current limiting resistors specifically for bulb replacement.
2:23 p.m.
New subject: PDP-10 (was Re: EDSAC on your desk.)
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 534 bytes
Desc: not available
Url :
http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980923/77b57fcc/at…
4:14 p.m.
New subject: PDP-10 (was Re: EDSAC on your desk.)
At 03:23 AM 23-09-98 +0100, Tony Duell wrote:
I have never found module-swapping to be a reliable or
useful method of
fault tracing or repair!. I find it a lot easier to look at signals on
the 'scope/analyser and track down the real fault. I do that on _all_ the
machines I own...
You're going to have to convince me that there's something _very
differnt_ about a PDP10 to convince me that spare modules are essential.
Well I've only tried to maintain VAX8800s, where tracing signals is not at
all possible. You cannot run the machine with the doors open for example.
(I know that you can disable the door interlocks, but after a reasonably
short period of running either the airflow sensors will shut the system
down, or core temperatures will exceed threshold and it'll go down). Of
course, with a multi-layer PC board, you can't reliably follow signal paths
anyway....
As far as the -10 is concerned, there would be several hundred (if not
thousands) of modules and the backplane (for want of a better word) was a
machine wrapped nest of identical (yellow) wires. I doubt that you could
reliably follow a signal within a rack, let alone across the whole machine.
However, as I said before, I've never attacked a -10 with a scope so I
can't be sure that this isn't possible.
Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies(a)latrobe.edu.au
Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479
1999
La Trobe University | "If God had wanted soccer played in the
Melbourne Australia 3083 | air, the sky would be painted green"
7:05 p.m.
New subject: PDP-10 (was Re: EDSAC on your desk.)
Huw Davies <H.Davies(a)latrobe.edu.au> wrote:
As far as the -10 is concerned, there would be several
hundred (if not
thousands) of modules
For the KL10, the main CPU cage contains a total of 47 extended hex
modules, of 30 unique types.
http://www.brouhaha.com/~eric/retrocomputing/pdp-10/kl10d_modules.html
and the backplane (for want of a better word) was a
machine wrapped nest of identical (yellow) wires. I doubt that you could
reliably follow a signal within a rack, let alone across the whole machine.
If you didn't have prints, it would be damned difficult. Fortunately
prints exist.
Tracking down a short in the backplane would be a nightmare, though.
Cheers,
Eric
23 Sep
23 Sep
7:36 a.m.
New subject: PDP-10 (was Re: EDSAC on your desk.)
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 1374 bytes
Desc: not available
Url :
http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980923/8bc0a571/at…
1:25 p.m.
New subject: PDP-10 (was Re: EDSAC on your desk.)
ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote:
That's apart from the fact that serious DEC
hackers have automatic
continuity testers, at least for 36 pin flip-chip cards. 2 cards you plug
into the backplane and it'll tell you what's linked to what. Very useful
for tracking down backplane faults.
I can see that being simple and common for bussed signals, which are
prevalent on the Unibus, Omnibus, and Qbus. But the KL10 backplane has
no bussed logic signals. The backplane has some etched traces, but is
mostly machine-wrapped, and critical timing signals are wired with coax.
If a random wire in the backplane managed to get nicked on the corner of
a wire-wrap pin, I still assert that it will take a *long* time to find it.
Cheers,
Eric
24 Sep
24 Sep
5:26 a.m.
New subject: PDP-10 (was Re: EDSAC on your desk.)
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 1550 bytes
Desc: not available
Url :
http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980924/102f2266/at…
23 Sep
23 Sep
7:33 a.m.
New subject: PDP-10 (was Re: EDSAC on your desk.)
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 2873 bytes
Desc: not available
Url :
http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980923/5b505b11/at…
22 Sep
22 Sep
12:17 p.m.
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 1107 bytes
Desc: not available
Url :
http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980923/07fabaea/at…
3:22 p.m.
New subject: PDP-10 (was Re: EDSAC on your desk.)
Huw Davies <H.Davies(a)latrobe.edu.au> wrote:
I think there might be a few takers if it were
available. I'd even buy a
Pentium based system to run it on (I've only got alphas at home....).
I'd want one... but I'd want to be able to build it for the
machine I have. I hope he doesn't go the same route as the
person who wrote the EDSAC emulator did... executable image
only. I prefer to NOT run MS-anything, so I run Linux at
home...
(Not to mention the EDSAC simulator did NOT run on my machine
when I did try W95 to run it).
Megan Gentry
Former RT-11 Developer
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ |
| Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
23 Sep
23 Sep
12:28 a.m.
New subject: PDP-10 (was Re: EDSAC on your desk.)
[If Stu releases .exe-only]
Eww, that would suck - I doubt he supports ITS, and that's my whole intent
for finding/emulating/whatever a PDP-10...
-------
11:32 a.m.
New subject: PDP-10 (was Re: EDSAC on your desk.)
I wrote about Stu Grossman's PDP-10 emulator, kx10.
"Daniel A. Seagraves" <DSEAGRAV(a)toad.xkl.com> wrote:
[If Stu releases .exe-only]
Eww, that would suck - I doubt he supports ITS, and that's my whole intent
for finding/emulating/whatever a PDP-10...
Stu didn't ever plan to do binary releases. The code hasn't even been ported
to anything other than Unix variants.
I'm trying to get in touch with Stu to find out the current status.
Eric
20 Sep
20 Sep
5:10 p.m.
It can be had at: www.ocs.warwick.ac.uk/~edsac
Actually, I think that should be:
www.dcs.warwick.ac.uk/~edsac
It does look cool, though. I'm downloading a copy as we (errrr...)
speak.
-Bill Richman
bill_r(a)inetnebr.com
http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r
(Home of the COSMAC Elf
microcomputer simulator!)
5:14 p.m.
On Sun, 20 Sep 1998, John Lawson wrote:
Sam: Possibly a neat item at VCF II would be to have a
box running
this simulator... it certainly gives instant awareness of what it
was like back in the Old Days.
Hey, thanks for the idea. I think its a good one. I'll expand on it by
loading all the simulators I can find on a PC, then creating a bunch of
icons so that attendees can launch their favorite and then play around
with it until they get bored.
Providing I havet he time that is :)
Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.
September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
[Last web site update: 09/12/98]
9587
days inactive
9591
days old
42 comments
14 participants
participants (14)
-
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
bill_r＠inetnebr.com -
dastar＠ncal.verio.com -
dlw＠trailingedge.com -
DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com -
eric＠brouhaha.com -
gram＠cnct.com -
H.Davies＠latrobe.edu.au -
jim＠calico.litterbox.com -
jpl15＠netcom.com -
kozmik＠wave.home.com -
mbg＠world.std.com -
william＠ans.net -
yowza＠yowza.com