Writing SCSI 9-Track Mag Tapes from Windows/DOS - test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

wilson＠dbit.com

3 Oct 3 Oct

2:52 a.m.

On Fri, Oct 02, 2015 at 11:28:49PM -0700, Marc Verdiell wrote:

Thanks for your STP2T02.exe SCSI tape to SIMH program. Ran like a champ under Win98 DOS, first time. It's the only utility that did work out of the box to read a tape from my SCSI-1 HP 88780 9-track into a SIMH file, out of the 5 or so I tried. Before I jump to Linux, which seems to be the more straightforward option, does anyone have the reverse tool to write a SIMH image file on a 9 Track tape under Windows/DOS? None of the utilities I found using Windows Tape APIs could deal with my tape SCSI-1 early interface, they all expect some basic (SCSI-2?) functions that are not implemented.

My "ST.EXE" program (available from http://www.dbit.com/pub/ibmpc/util/ including source) runs on real DOS (not Windows) and can write from an E11-format .TAP file (which SIMH uses a garbled version of, but they're interchangeable for *even* record lengths which are 99% of the universe) to a real tape. It works on my HP 88780, and my Qualstar 1260S and even a DEC TZ30 or TK50Z-GA (which aren't quite full SCSI-1). Not picky at all. "st wput foo.tap" should write your image out. You need a DOS ASPI driver for your SCSI card, and you'll need to use something like "-f scsi5:" on the command line (or set the TAPE environment variable) so ST will know which SCSI ID (etc.) to use. John Wilson D Bit

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dave.g4ugm＠gmail.com

4:47 a.m.

Seeing as all the programs mentioned appear to only have Windows versions available then if by "this kind of approach" you meant using the programs mentioned, its not going to work on Linux "out of the box". A quick web search shows that at least some SCSI adaptors don't work in the way I expected http://forum.silverfast.com/canoscan-2700-and-scsi-usb-adaptator-t4703.html which implies that rather than present the disk to Windows as a SCSI controller and devices, the SCSI2USB presents it as a USB storage device. The programs below appear to expect an ASPI driver so I think the answer is these don't work either. Dave

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-----Original Message----- From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Mike Ross Sent: 03 October 2015 09:21 To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Subject: Re: Writing SCSI 9-Track Mag Tapes from Windows/DOS Question: will this kind of hookup work with a USB-SCSI converter? If so, are there any specific brands and models known to work? I'm interested in both SE & differential, 50 pin & 68 pin. Or does it need a traditional Adaptec or similar card? Preferably under Linux; Windows possible but deprecated. Mike On Sat, Oct 3, 2015 at 7:52 PM, John Wilson <wilson at dbit.com> wrote:

On Fri, Oct 02, 2015 at 11:28:49PM -0700, Marc Verdiell wrote:

Thanks for your STP2T02.exe SCSI tape to SIMH program. Ran like a champ under Win98 DOS, first time. It's the only utility that did work out of the box to read a tape from my SCSI-1 HP 88780 9-track into a SIMH file, out of the 5 or so I tried. Before I jump to Linux, which seems to be the more straightforward option, does anyone have the reverse tool to write a SIMH image file on a 9 Track tape under Windows/DOS? None of the utilities I found using Windows Tape APIs could deal with my tape SCSI-1 early interface, they all expect some basic (SCSI-2?) functions that are not implemented.

My "ST.EXE" program (available from http://www.dbit.com/pub/ibmpc/util/ including source) runs on real DOS (not Windows) and can write from an E11-format .TAP file (which SIMH uses a garbled version of, but they're interchangeable for *even* record lengths which are 99% of the universe) to a real tape. It works on my HP 88780, and my Qualstar 1260S and even a DEC TZ30 or TK50Z-GA (which aren't quite full SCSI-1).

Not picky at all.

"st wput foo.tap" should write your image out. You need a DOS ASPI driver for your SCSI card, and you'll need to use something like "-f scsi5:" on the command line (or set the TAPE environment variable) so ST will know which SCSI ID (etc.) to use. John Wilson D Bit

-- http://www.corestore.org 'No greater love hath a man than he lay down his life for his brother. Not for millions, not for glory, not for fame. For one person, in the dark, where no one will ever know or see.'

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dave.g4ugm＠gmail.com

7:16 a.m.

I think that the options are limited these days. As far as I can tell the Adaptech USB Exchange isn't supported past XP. I have no idea if it works as I don't have one to try. They also seem "Rare and Expensive" http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/161840342686 You can get a machine with a traditional PCI slot and use an older Adaptec SCSI adaptor. (I keep a box of these and a machine with a PCI slot). You can get PCI-Express adaptors but the cheap ones won't fit in my desktop as it only has a PCI-Express X1 slot and most of the adaptors need an X4 slot... e.g. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281812515989 and the X1 versions are expensive... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/291539495842 and these are both U320 standard so only Low Voltage Differential (LVD) devices will work and many older disks are 5V single ended... ... of course you can get converters but the price is high http://www.paralanstore.net/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=60_1 So keep an old machine and pray it does not break..... Dave Wade G4UGM

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-----Original Message----- From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Mike Ross Sent: 03 October 2015 11:07 To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Subject: Re: Writing SCSI 9-Track Mag Tapes from Windows/DOS Well that link gave some things to think about - but I was thinking more of a generic 'legacy SCSI disks and tapes into a modern computer' without necessarily being tooooo picky about which OS or application to use with them - but generally yes going to and from physical devices to image files. Mike On Sat, Oct 3, 2015 at 9:47 PM, Dave G4UGM <dave.g4ugm at gmail.com> wrote:

Seeing as all the programs mentioned appear to only have Windows

versions available then if by "this kind of approach" you meant using the programs mentioned, its not going to work on Linux "out of the box".

A quick web search shows that at least some SCSI adaptors don't work in the way I expected http://forum.silverfast.com/canoscan-2700-and-scsi-usb-adaptator-t4703 .html which implies that rather than present the disk to Windows as a SCSI

controller and devices, the SCSI2USB presents it as a USB storage device. The programs below appear to expect an ASPI driver so I think the answer is these don't work either.

Dave > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Mike > Ross > Sent: 03 October 2015 09:21 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Subject: Re: Writing SCSI 9-Track Mag Tapes from Windows/DOS > > Question: will this kind of hookup work with a USB-SCSI converter? If > so, are there any specific brands and models known to work? I'm > interested in both SE & differential, 50 pin & 68 pin. > > Or does it need a traditional Adaptec or similar card? > > Preferably under Linux; Windows possible but deprecated. > > Mike > > On Sat, Oct 3, 2015 at 7:52 PM, John Wilson <wilson at dbit.com> wrote: > > On Fri, Oct 02, 2015 at 11:28:49PM -0700, Marc Verdiell wrote: > >>Thanks for your STP2T02.exe SCSI tape to SIMH program. Ran like a > >>champ under Win98 DOS, first time. It's the only utility that did > >>work out of the box to read a tape from my SCSI-1 HP 88780 9-track > >>into a SIMH file, out of the 5 or so I tried. Before I jump to > >>Linux, which seems to be the more straightforward option, does > >>anyone have the reverse tool to write a SIMH image file on a 9 > >>Track tape under Windows/DOS? None of the utilities I found using > >>Windows Tape APIs could deal with my tape SCSI-1 early interface, > >>they all expect some basic (SCSI-2?) functions that are not

implemented.

My "ST.EXE" program (available from http://www.dbit.com/pub/ibmpc/util/ including source) runs on real DOS (not Windows) and can write from an E11-format .TAP file (which SIMH uses a garbled version of, but they're interchangeable for *even* record lengths which are 99% of the universe) to a real tape. It works on my HP 88780, and my Qualstar 1260S and even a DEC TZ30 or TK50Z-GA (which aren't quite full SCSI-1).

Not picky at all.

"st wput foo.tap" should write your image out. You need a DOS ASPI driver for your SCSI card, and you'll need to use something like "-f scsi5:" on the command line (or set the TAPE environment variable) so ST will know which SCSI ID (etc.) to use. John Wilson D Bit

-- http://www.corestore.org 'No greater love hath a man than he lay down his life for his brother. Not for millions, not for glory, not for fame. For one person, in the dark, where no one will ever know or see.'

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cclist＠sydex.com

3 Oct 3 Oct

2:19 p.m.

On 10/02/2015 11:28 PM, Marc Verdiell wrote:

...

Chuck, Thanks for your STP2T02.exe SCSI tape to SIMH program. Ran like a champ under Win98 DOS, first time. It's the only utility that did work out of the box to read a tape from my SCSI-1 HP 88780 9-track into a SIMH file, out of the 5 or so I tried. Before I jump to Linux, which seems to be the more straightforward option, does anyone have the reverse tool to write a SIMH image file on a 9 Track tape under Windows/DOS? None of the utilities I found using Windows Tape APIs could deal with my tape SCSI-1 early interface, they all expect some basic (SCSI-2?) functions that are not implemented.

Thanks for the kind words. I didn't do the reverse, as my interest lies primarily in retrieving data from old media, not creating more data on old media. Generally, I make the SIMH file from a tape and have a bunch of utilities to process the file for conversion to modern formats (code translation, deblocking, un-archiving, etc.). That being said, there are routines in that SCSI package for writing tape. They were borrowed from an old forensics package that had to pretty much work with any SCSI device, so I'm pretty confident that they'll work. They were replaced about 8 years of field use with a C++ version (much easier to handle the minutiae of tape when encapsulated as a C++ object). I'm sure that John's st() utilities are equally valuable, but I never could get them to work with my setup. The general problem with UNIX/BSD/Linux is that the philosophy there is that everything is basically a disk file, however physically embodied. Tapes are not disks. In general, I don't like most SCSI tape drives for data retrieval, as the SCSI interface seems to require that implied read-ahead be used to keep the tape moving. There's nothing quite like watching a SCSI tape drive going through a "scrubbing" cycle trying to read a tape block that you never asked for. --Chuck

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