On Tue, 7 May 2002, Jay West wrote: Mea culpa! OK. Doc

Sellam wrote... Many of the recently discussed anti-spam and list policing features will be in the list once the new server is installed with the newer software. I am supposed to pick up the hardware today, hope to have it up and running within a week. Got any examples to back that statement up? I try to only post gentle reminders when it gets out of hand. I prefer to give people an opportunity to police themselves. I tend to only step in when it's pretty bad, and I think that's the way it should be. It sounds like you would prefer to set up a list where you can be a "list-nazi", but I personally think that kind of heavy-handedness turns off users worse than the occasional outburst we have here. Nuff Said Jay West

On Tue, 7 May 2002, Jay West wrote: Great! Can't wait. Chuck McManis, Andrew Davies, Tim Shoppa... I'm sure there are more who chose to simply make silent departures. That has never worked in the past. If anything the problem has gotten worse. What makes you think it will work now? The problem is the unwillingness to call it like it is. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *

On Tue, 7 May 2002, Zane H. Healy wrote: Oh yes, I forgot about Kai Kaltenbach. There are at least 2 others whose names I can't remember right now that cited they were leaving due to the noise. I know of others who left without saying anything because it wouldn't make a difference either way. I don't have a problem with the occasional off-topic post, or even short lived thread. But the problem here is there is no self-control, and threads will, nine times out of ten, mutate off into oblivion. When anyone complains and offers remedies, they are shouted down. Meanwhile, the problem deteriorates over time and the list suffers overall as a result. There have always been off-topic posts, and off-topic threads, but they were tolerable in the past. It's been bad for a long while, with intervening stretches of topicality, but it's now at its worst. Anyway, I've given up on fighting over it. Sure I'll still contribute to the pissing and moaning about it, but nowadays I look at the message index and read maybe 2 messages out of fifty. I stay because it's always been a good source of information for the few who are still listening amidst the din. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *

On Tue, 7 May 2002, Bill Sudbrink wrote: Nope. Same experience here. He owes me some money :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *

Wayne M. Smith wrote: Look, those are all fine names, and their contributions are missed, but people leave lists all the time for all kinds of reasons, and even if in every case mentioned it's the one attributed, they haven't chosen to belabor the rest of us about it in an attempt to impose their views of policing speech on everyone else. With minor, and ignorable, execptions, we all want to keep things focused and on topic, but it is hard to do that when a small minority of the most vocal about transgressions provoke so many of them themselves. I have a feeling that some are absent just because they're busy with other things, though, or their interests have gotten more focused on a particular vendor or model. Whatever the case, there's nothing preventing anyone from starting their own list. In fact, you have to question why anyone would hold that stick over anyone else's head if so many were so dissatisfied, and they were confident they could do any better without actively driving traffic off themselves. There are people on every list whose behavior will annoy you. I could have some choice words for one or two individuals myself at the moment. But I'm going to refrain because it's just not constructive. And I think some people mean well, but need to take honking big log out of their eye before presuming to pass judgement on others, however annoying. jbdigriz

From: "Joe" <rigdonj(a)cfl.rr.com list at one time and for a while he was tracking serial numbers and features of the Altair computers but he seems to have disappeared completely. I've tried both of his e-mail address, one is no longer valid and the other is full so his E-mail is bouncing. I've also called his home phone numerous times and I can't get an answer on it. I ran several searches on him and it seems that he suddenly quit posting to any news groups around the middle of last year. I've exchanged email with him as recently as 3/15. Around that time, he told me "I have just been assigned a long term assignment is LA, so most of my Mark-8 tasks will be put on hold until I'm back."

Quothe Zane H. Healy, from writings of Tue, May 07, 2002 at 01:46:28PM -0700: Like many of us, I like hardware and software hacking; the evil empire, a.k.a. Micro$oft and friends, oppose not only hardware and software hacking, but reliable computer software, open source software and free software. In order for us to continue to maintain, preserve, restore and make full use of classic computer systems, we need to hack hardware, hack software in source code format, and have dependable computer systems to use to help us with our efforts. That having been said, the following also needs to be said: What's wrong with someone from Micro$oft going away from this list? It's my guess that he was afraid that the list would interfere with his pro-Micro$oft brainwashing, or, perhaps he feared that a cow-orker, or supervisory biz'droid, at Micro$oft would find that he was receiving anti-micro$oft e-mail. It appears, at first glance anyway, that most of the uproar in this thread is a result of Micro$oft lusers being upset over the criticism of their broken-by-design software and operating systems. Micro$oft doesn't own the 'net, or the world, and if it, or its 'droids, can't take the well deserved criticism, that's their problem. Micro$oft might own Little Georgie "I love religious warfare, so praise Jesus, pass the ammunition and don't break up the Micro$oft monopoly!" Bush's administration, or so it appears; however, Micro$oft doesn't own the U.S. or any other nation, despite it's apparent megalomania. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd(a)rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty.

What's really bad is that in another couple of years it will have been a full 10 years since Commodore filed for bankruptcy and another 2 years after that it will be 10 years since Atari got swallowed by JTS. It is kind of hard to believe it's going on 20 years since the intro of the Mac and Amiga though.... even the first machines from Be are 10 years old now. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757

Hi, classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org said: What surprised me was that even my Sharp 1251 pocket computer that amazed everyone at work at the time (Basic and 3.5K in your shirt pocket...) is 20 years old now...is this the smallest classic computer?? 5 1/2 x 2 3/4 x 15/32 inches, 4 ounces, 0.03 Watts... -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb(a)dial.pipex.com The future was never like this!

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At 02:28 AM 5/10/02 +0100, you wrote: Ouch; is it really 23+ years since I keyed in my first BASIC program in an HP3000 system ? But then, so many things have happened in my life since then... I guess it is alright. But it does sound awful. I'd love to get my hands on an HP3000 III system, especially now that I have the space. carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo(a)nospammers.ieee.org

Sellam said To do so is to be apolitical, and in a group of people this large you probably have to be some sort of politician. Otherwise I'm with you 100% in all other statements you made in this letter. John A.

I don't think I ever really departed, I simply only have time to read classiccmp a couple times a year. A growing family and an increasingly important job in a concrete bunker underneath Washington DC have kept me very busy and have separated me from more than just classiccmp; other interests of mine - some hobby, some personal, some business - have become neglected as well. I certainly do not monitor classiccmp nearly as closely as other, much more focused discussion lists, but I don't fault classiccmp for the open forum that it is. Tim.

Did I miss that? I don't recall him publicly bidding the list farewell? There certainly is a considerable amount of experience that left with the people already mentioned that have unsubscribed. It is getting harder to just skim through the large amount of traffic though. I've thought about dropping the list again but find that I am still learning things from the people here, so that's the main reason for staying. I've also made a few good deals with people on occasion, equipment going both directions. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757

On Tue, 7 May 2002, Jay West wrote: Dave McGuire, Chuck McManis. Peace... Sridhar -- "How do you fight such a savage?" "With heart, faith, and steel. There can be only one." -MacLeod and Ramirez, "Highlander"

On Wed, 8 May 2002, Jay West wrote: Look, I don't know if the people re-subscribed and are now lurking. In the case of Chuck and Andrew, I know for a fact (because I remember) that they publicly stated the list had gotten out of control and they were unsubscribing. I'm not making this up to win points for my argument, as you seem to imply. I really don't care either way. The list DOES suck right now, that much is a fact, but I'm still using it because it at least is still called "Classic Computers". And why are you posting a flame inducing message after you just admonished a bunch of people for the very same thing? This is something that would have been better left in private mail, or not broached at all. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *