29 May
2007
29 May
'07
4:46 a.m.
Tony Duell wrote...
The right way to get better depth of field for oblique
shots is to tilt
the lens (!).
[...]
The problem is that no digital camera has a tilting front.
In the interests of completeness, I should say that this isn't strictly
speaking true. Canon make EOS mount tilt/shift lenses, which will work on
any of their digital SLRs (three of them, 24, 45 and 90mm IIRC.) In fact,
their APS-C sensor DSLRs are in many ways ideal - the smaller-than-35mm
sensor size means you're unlikely to see any vignetting even at extreme
ends of the available movements.
(For the uninitiated, a lens intended for tilt/shift, such as the TS-E
lenses or anything made for a technical/view camera, needs to project an
image circle significantly larger than the imaging plane (film/sensor), to
allow for moving the projected image around as you move the lens. The
extreme ends of the movements on the tilt/shift FD mount lens I use on my
film camera are marked in red - this indicates you're going to start
seeing vignetting if you tilt/shift this far because the image circle no
longer covers the whole film area. Because most (not all) digital SLRs
use smaller APS size sensors (~25mm longest edge IIRC rather than ~36)
this is less of a problem.)
That said, the Canon TS-E lenses are considered 'speciality' lenses and
priced accordingly; unless you're going to make a living out of
architectural photography not really a serious recommendation.
My recommendation for a cheap digital starter kit for doing what you want
would be the bottom of the range Canon digtal SLR (EOS 400D in Europe,
'Digital Rebel XTi' I think in USA - identical camera, but US market
apparently demands a 'cool' name like 'Rebel'.) Buy it body-only, and buy
the Canon EF-S 60mm f/2.8 Macro lens as well.
The EF-S is a beautiful lens at a very reasonable price; top-notch
quality, the effective focal length given the smaller sensor in a DSLR is
around 90mm, which is pretty reasonable for what you're looking to do, and
most importantly it can do true 1:1 macro for when you want the photos of
individual chips on that motherboard. It's also compatible with the Canon
ringlight flash if you find yourself doing a lot of macro.
The only caveat is that being an EF-S, it's not compatible with
full-frame DSLRs or film SLRs (EF-S lenses take advantage of the smaller
sensor & mirror size in DSLRs to extend the optics further back into the
camera; if you could mount them on a film cam (which you can't, the mount
prevents it,) the back of the lens would smash the mirror.
Oh, that reminds me, in a conversation a while ago possible sources of
weak acid solutions were being pondered. I meant to mention then, but it
didn't seem worth an entire post - photographic stop bath is a weak acid
solution, and readily available (in the UK, your high street Jessops still
stocks most photographic chemistry, for the timebeing at least.) 'Normal'
stop bath is acetic acid based I believe, you can also buy odourless (or
more accurately 'less obnoxious odour') stop bath which is usually citric
acid based.
Cheers,
Tim
--
Tim Walls at home in Leeds
EMail & MSN: tim.walls at snowgoons.com
29 May
29 May
8:26 a.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Walls" <tim.walls at snowgoons.com>
To: <cctech at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 5:46 AM
Subject: Re: digital camera capabilities
Nikon makes some too.
Still, though, if you're using perspective control and lens tilts and shifts
to attain certain results, you shouldn't be using a plastic digital SLR.
You should be using a proper view camera.
A good 4x5 camera with a good lens costs about as much as a professional
DSLR. A good used 4x5 costs significantly less. I got my whole 4x5 system
for about $500 including darkroom gear.
Now if you want to shoot digital 4x5 you have to be rich, but you can get an
amazing capture with a decent flatbed scanner off 4x5. There is a scanner
that will give you a roughly 60-gigabyte uncompressed image (it was
certainly tens of gigabytes).
Sometimes you want things *out* of focus (selective focus)... and this is
hard to do on APS-sized DSLRs. It's much easier to do on 35mm (or
full-frame DSLRs) and obscenely easy on larger formats.
Use the right tool for the job. DSLRs are fantastic for weddings. 4x5
monorails are irreplaceable for architecture.
Jim
In the
interests of completeness, I should say that this isn't strictly
speaking true.
Canon make EOS mount tilt/shift lenses, which will work on
any of their digital SLRs (three of them, 24, 45 and 90mm IIRC.) In fact,
their APS-C sensor DSLRs are in many ways ideal - the smaller-than-35mm
sensor size means you're unlikely to see any vignetting even at extreme
ends of the available movements.
8:54 a.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jay West" <jwest at classiccmp.org>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 9:33 AM
Subject: Re: digital camera capabilities
Ok, we're going to dovetail this discussion in to
classic computers,
right? ;)
Umm... I keep a database of my film photographs on my Commodore 64...
(Okay, I don't, but I could... :) )
It's interesting - the appeal of film photography to me has a great affinity
with the appeal of old computers. There is a certain tactile pleasure that
I get using film gear, and it relates very favourably with the pleasure I
get using older computers.
Jim
11:08 a.m.
I think we were talking about photographing classic computers.
I have used a video camera successfully. when I got my Sony HI8 TR81
in 1991 I started taking it to auction previews. I could walk right
up to the name plate and get the model and serial number. I used it
for inventorying boards and reviewing it later that evening. It would
focus on something almost laying on the lens. And its low light
capabilities was better than my eyes in a dim warehouse.
After about 8 months Hanford kicked my camera out. Turns out they
don't allow cameras on federal reserves. However it proved useful
anywhere they would let it in.
Later I used a similar Sony video camera to do closeups of chips I was
selling on eBay. Hooked it up to a frame grabber on the computer. Lit
with a fluorescent magnifying ring light and a paper diffuser. Great
chip pics.
I have a Ultra 2 that I want to get the sun video working so I use
that, but that is a future project.
I have been using now an Optio 430 RS which works OK. I can't get as
close as I can with the video camera. Extreme macro capability would
be a requirement for my next camera.
This 4 megapixel camera is sufficient for my internet sales. it was a
cheap 3X camera two years ago. I particularly was looking for a camera
that could be used manually. And I have used all of the manual
functions. Actually I use it most for travel and am soon going to have
to replace it.
My biggest disappointment was the cheap cameras have only two f stops.
So I really had to learn how to manage my depth of focus. Most cameras
adjust the shutter time for fine tuning exposures.
I also use a monopod a lot and that really helps with camera shake. it
is hard to handhold at an eighth of a second. I also brace or use a
tripod a lot.
Paxton
--
Paxton Hoag
Astoria, OR
USA
12:49 p.m.
On 29 May 2007 at 11:08, Paxton Hoag wrote:
My biggest disappointment was the cheap cameras have
only two f stops.
So I really had to learn how to manage my depth of focus. Most cameras
adjust the shutter time for fine tuning exposures.
One thing that digicams seem to have in common with PCs is that they
go obsolete very quickly. Even if the resolution of the sensor
manages to stay relatively current, the noise level and contrast
range seems to improve dramatically with every iteration.
I've been using a Minolta 5Mp D32 for a few years. In its day, it
was pretty good. Earlier this year, my wife asked for a camera that
was easy to use and I got her a little Pentax Optio 7Mp job for about
$100. It takes better markedly photos than does my Minolta.
At some point, it's useful playing the "one generation behind
bleeding edge" game to economize. I certainly do it (3GHz PCs can be
found on Freecycle for nothing) with PCs and will probably start
doing it with digicams when my Minolta gets unusable.
Cheers,
Chuck
1:29 p.m.
New subject: enough already (was: digital camera capabilities)
(apparently in response to Jay's request to bring this thread about
cameras back on topic)
Paxton Hoag wrote:
I think we were talking about photographing classic
computers.
[ more blah blah blah about camera equipment excised ]
You are so right; carry on.
That reminds me, often when I am hobbying with my vintage computers I
can hear my wife watching TV in the next room. Can you believe what
happened on last week's episode of Lost?
This morning, just after walking past my Northstar Horizon, I read
today's newspaper. There was a really interesting article about Roe vs
Wade and how the aging supreme court is likely to have a lot of turnover
in the next few years. What is everybody's opinion on this vital subject?
Back in 1992 or so, I recall some character at work bringing in a floppy
for the Apple II. When nobody was looking, he booted it up. Lo and
behold, it was a very solarized, low framerate video of a certain sex
act. It was really technically impressive ... the programming, that is
:-) . Let's all talk about our pornography preferences. We must have
at least a few experts on the list that can share their insights.
Yes, this thread started on topic -- what camera is suitable/useful for
photographing the equipment of this hobby we share. That relatedness
lasted about three messages.
Since then 95% of what has come out has been war stories and shop talk
having NOTHING to do with vintage computers, other than the authors
happen to be interested in both and can't resist the temptation to
demonstrate it.
And before anybody else mentions it, yes, I do believe my infrequent
curmudgeonly posts to get back on track are starting to outnumber my
classic computer posts.
So, to help balance things out, if you've read this far, and are
interesting in paying shipping on a working dual head multiprocessing
Z80 turbodos system (from austin, tx, usa), let me know. Specifically
it is an IMS 5000 IS system. Preference goes to anybody willing to come
and pick it up. You are excluded from consideration if you have
authored any emails with the subject line "digital camera capabilities" *.
* (not really)
5:27 p.m.
New subject: enough already (was: digital camera capabilities)
Motion seconded. I can't see how anything related to digital cameras
(except some of the very early video digitizing stuff) has anything to
do with classic computing.
-Rick
5:57 p.m.
New subject: enough already (was: digital camera capabilities)
On 29 May 2007 at 17:27, Rick Bensene wrote:
Motion seconded. I can't see how anything related
to digital cameras
(except some of the very early video digitizing stuff) has anything to
do with classic computing.
To put the subject back in the domain of "vintage"...
What outfit first sold digital cameras where the sensor consisted of
a cermet-package DRAM with the chip cover replaced by a piece of
glued-on glass? Does anyone own one?
Cheers,
Chuck
7:06 p.m.
New subject: enough already (was: digital camera capabilities)
Micron made just such a device (the windowed DRAM). Never owned one, though.
I did, however, have a Cyclops (a 32x32) camera in the 70's, from the
Popular Electronics article from the 70's. Got it built and hooked it up and
saw an image for about 3 seconds before the image sensor died. Never did
figure out why it died, and as a poor high school student couldn't afford to
buy another one. :^(
Douglas Wood
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 7:57 PM
Subject: RE: enough already (was: digital camera capabilities)
On 29 May 2007 at 17:27, Rick Bensene wrote:
Motion seconded. I can't see how anything
related to digital cameras
(except some of the very early video digitizing stuff) has anything to
do with classic computing.
To put the subject back in the domain of "vintage"...
What outfit first sold digital cameras where the sensor consisted of
a cermet-package DRAM with the chip cover replaced by a piece of
glued-on glass? Does anyone own one?
Cheers,
Chuck
__________ NOD32 2296 (20070529) Information __________
This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
http://www.eset.com
7:16 p.m.
New subject: DRAM camera sensor
Micron Technology sold the chips, DRAM's with windows. It was called the
OpticRAM.
I believe the part number was IS32.
I have a few somewhere along with the data sheet but fat chance of
finding them.
Bob
Chuck Guzis wrote:
On 29 May 2007 at 17:27, Rick Bensene wrote:
Motion seconded. I can't see how anything
related to digital cameras
(except some of the very early video digitizing stuff) has anything to
do with classic computing.
To put the subject back in the domain of "vintage"...
What outfit first sold digital cameras where the sensor consisted of
a cermet-package DRAM with the chip cover replaced by a piece of
glued-on glass? Does anyone own one?
Cheers,
Chuck
31 May
31 May
1:39 p.m.
New subject: DRAM camera sensor
At 06:16 PM 5/29/2007, you wrote:
Micron Technology sold the chips, DRAM's with
windows. It was called the
OpticRAM.
I believe the part number was IS32.
I have a few somewhere along with the data sheet but fat chance of finding
them.
Bob
I remember a document from the 80s that described how to take a DRAM chip,
decap it, and use it as a crude camera. I think I remember something about
a lens too. It might have been a joke...
This would have to be a ceramic type DRAM chip to be decapped by an
individual (easily).
Does anyone know what I'm talking about or have the document? I thought it
sounded fun. : )
Grant
3:43 p.m.
New subject: DRAM camera sensor
On 5/31/07, Grant Stockly <grant at stockly.com> wrote:
I remember a document from the 80s that described how
to take a DRAM chip,
decap it, and use it as a crude camera. I think I remember something about
a lens too. It might have been a joke...
No joke.
This would have to be a ceramic type DRAM chip to be
decapped by an
individual (easily).
Yes.
Does anyone know what I'm talking about or have
the document? I thought it
sounded fun. : )
I do not know the document, but I did run across it (or one like it)
and did decap a ceramic 4116 sometime in the mid-1980s (it had to be
1984 or after because I mounted the DRAM in an Apple II, and I didn't
have one on-hand until 1984-1985).
I never stuck a lens in front of it, but I did play with the
light-sensitivity of the chip.
-ethan
3:52 p.m.
New subject: DRAM camera sensor
On Thu, 31 May 2007, Grant Stockly wrote:
I remember a document from the 80s that described how
to take a DRAM chip,
decap it, and use it as a crude camera. I think I remember something about
a lens too. It might have been a joke...
This would have to be a ceramic type DRAM chip to be decapped by an
individual (easily).
Does anyone know what I'm talking about or have the document? I thought it
sounded fun. : )
Ciarcia's column in Byte
Micron Eye and/or Micromint
the commercial one used a C-Mount lens (Tv and 16mm movie camera)
1 Jun
1 Jun
12:54 p.m.
New subject: DRAM camera sensor
Fred Cisin wrote:
On Thu, 31 May 2007, Grant Stockly wrote:
There was at least one UK computer magazine which carried such a project too -
unfortunately I can't remember which one, let alone which year :-( I suspect
it was later than the Byte one.
I remember a document from the 80s that described
how to take a DRAM chip,
decap it, and use it as a crude camera. I think I remember something about
a lens too. It might have been a joke...
This would have to be a ceramic type DRAM chip to be decapped by an
individual (easily).
Does anyone know what I'm talking about or have the document? I thought it
sounded fun. : )
Ciarcia's column in Byte 
7:34 p.m.
New subject: DRAM camera sensor
Hi,
There was at least one UK computer magazine which
carried such
a project too - unfortunately I can't remember which one, let
alone which year :-(
I vaguely remember "Practical Electronics" (could have been "ETI", but
I
don't think so) carrying some sort of digital camera project around about
1980/81(ish), but I have a feeling it was based on a CCD sensor; IIRC the
accompanying article mentioned being able to use expoded DRAMs as image
sensors (the first time I became aware of this).
TTFN - Pete.
2 Jun
2 Jun
7:01 a.m.
New subject: DRAM camera sensor
Phase I (simple B&W):
I used a Z-100 computer with a TI 256K DRAM (512 x 512). The video
chip in the z-100 could be configured for 640 x 512 and the DRAM
imager replaced one DRAM chip (ES) and was on a 1 foot tender (which
is about the functional limit). Using a simple assembly code to read
the DRAM transform the logic address to physical topology.
Phase II (gray scale): more complex, used a memory board and replaced
DRAM to a DRAM on tender. Programmed the DRAM controller for various
refresh rates (soak time). Of course the other "bits" on the memory
board were rendered useless.
TI (and others) would publish a memory map to help with the topology
decoding. Of course it did not directly address redundant bit lines.
At 10:34 PM 6/1/2007, you wrote:
Hi,
There was at least one UK computer magazine which
carried such
a project too - unfortunately I can't remember which one, let
alone which year :-(
I vaguely remember "Practical Electronics" (could have been "ETI",
but I don't think so) carrying some sort of digital camera project
around about 1980/81(ish), but I have a feeling it was based on a
CCD sensor; IIRC the accompanying article mentioned being able to
use expoded DRAMs as image sensors (the first time I became aware of this).
TTFN - Pete. 
4 Jun
4 Jun
3:30 a.m.
New subject: DRAM camera sensor
You might be thinking of "Build the first Low-cost All Solid State TV
Camera!", by Walker, Garland & Melen, Popular Electronics, Feb '75
(just after the famous Altair issue).
It looks like Michael Holley hasn't scanned it in yet.
I remember a document from the 80s that described how
to take a DRAM
chip, decap it, and use it as a crude camera. I think I remember
something about a lens too. It might have been a joke...
6:22 a.m.
New subject: DRAM camera sensor - BYTE/PE articals posted
You might be thinking of "Build the first
Low-cost All Solid State TV
Camera!", by Walker, Garland & Melen, Popular Electronics, Feb '75
(just after the famous Altair issue).
It looks like Michael Holley hasn't scanned it in yet.
>I remember a document from the 80s that described how to take a DRAM
>chip, decap it, and use it as a crude camera. I think I remember
>something about a lens too. It might have been a joke...
For all those who have expressed interest, I have uploaded scans
of the following documents to: www.dunfield.com/pub/index.htm
Build the Micro D-CAM Solid State Video Camera / Byte Sep-Oct 83
Micron IS32 Optic RAM data sheet (used in above)
Build Cyclops First all Solid-State TV camera for experimentors / Pop Elect. Feb 75
Regretably the first two are from rather poor photocopies (these issues are missing
from my BYTE collection) - but are for the most part
legible.
These are in a temporary area, and will be gone when I need to reuse the space.
Everyone/anyone is welcome to archive/post them as you see fit.
Dave
--
dave06a (at) Dave Dunfield
dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com
com Collector of vintage computing equipment:
http://www.classiccmp.org/dunfield/index.html
29 May
29 May
7:26 p.m.
New subject: enough already (was: digital camera capabilities)
On Tue, 29 May 2007, Chuck Guzis wrote:
What outfit first sold digital cameras where the
sensor consisted of
a cermet-package DRAM with the chip cover replaced by a piece of
glued-on glass? Does anyone own one?
While almost certainly not the first, Micromint (Ciarcia) sold one, with a
C-Mount and tripod socket.
I can't find mine.
9:06 p.m.
New subject: enough already
Chuck Guzis wrote:
To put the subject back in the domain of
"vintage"...
What outfit first sold digital cameras where the sensor consisted of
a cermet-package DRAM with the chip cover replaced by a piece of
glued-on glass? Does anyone own one?
I remember reading about that in BYTE. That may be the first place to try.
Off hand I think it was 1/2 of 64K x 1 DRAM.
Cheers,
Chuck
9:21 p.m.
New subject: Early Electronic Image Capture
Rumor has it that Chuck Guzis may have mentioned these words:
On 29 May 2007 at 17:27, Rick Bensene wrote:
Couldn't tell you the "first" but I do know a system for the RatShack/Tandy
line (Color Computer, prolly Model I/III/4) was called the Digisector
DS-69B - "Hot Lips" Houlihan (Loretta Swit) from M*A*S*H (the series) used
to advertise for the company - I remember seeing them in HotCoCo & Rainbow
way back when...
IIRC, the first (or darned near) mass produced self-contained consumer
digital camera was made by Logitech - back then everything they made was a
"man" - SoundMan, TrackMan, etc. It was a something-Man -- hold on,
googling now...
OK, it was the FotoMan. The resolution was monochrome 284 by 376 pixels,
256-level monochrome.
Would it be safe to say that one of those would be ontopic??? :-)
Things sure have come a long way... ;-)
Laterz,
Roger "Merch" Merchberger
--
Roger "Merch" Merchberger | "Profile, don't speculate."
SysAdmin, Iceberg Computers | Daniel J. Bernstein
zmerch at 30below.com |
Motion seconded. I can't see how anything
related to digital cameras
(except some of the very early video digitizing stuff) has anything to
do with classic computing.
To put the subject back in the domain of "vintage"...
What outfit first sold digital cameras where the sensor consisted of
a cermet-package DRAM with the chip cover replaced by a piece of
glued-on glass? Does anyone own one? 
11:45 p.m.
New subject: Early Electronic Image Capture
On May 30, 2007, at 12:21 AM, Roger Merchberger wrote:
IIRC, the first (or darned near) mass produced
self-contained
consumer digital camera was made by Logitech - back then everything
they made was a "man" - SoundMan, TrackMan, etc. It was a something-
Man -- hold on, googling now...
OK, it was the FotoMan. The resolution was monochrome 284 by 376
pixels, 256-level monochrome.
Oh man that brings back some memories! I wrote the "suck the
images out of the camera" DOS software for the FotoMan for Logitech.
That had to have been 1991 or thereabouts. I may still have one of
the prototypes buried in a box somewhere. The FotoMan worked
surprisingly well, and the image quality wasn't bad at all.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
30 May
30 May
1:25 a.m.
New subject: Early Electronic Image Capture
from here http://www.digicamhistory.com/1988.html
FUJI DS-1P - 1988. The DS-1P was the world's first fully digital camera to
be marketed and the first to record images on removable flash card media.
It recorded images digitally on SRAM memory cards (SRAM - Static Access
Random Memory), with built-in battery for maintaining the memory rather than
on a floppy disk as used by still video cameras of that time. The card was
developed jointly with Toshiba. 400K CCD. Fixed-focus 16mm f/5.6 (f/4
with flash) lens. Shutter 1/60 to 1/2000 second. *Understanding Electronic
Photography*, John J. Larish, 1990, p44.
On 5/29/07, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote:
On May 30, 2007, at 12:21 AM, Roger Merchberger wrote:
IIRC, the first (or darned near) mass produced
self-contained
consumer digital camera was made by Logitech - back then everything
they made was a "man" - SoundMan, TrackMan, etc. It was a something-
Man -- hold on, googling now...
OK, it was the FotoMan. The resolution was monochrome 284 by 376
pixels, 256-level monochrome.
Oh man that brings back some memories! I wrote the "suck the
images out of the camera" DOS software for the FotoMan for Logitech.
That had to have been 1991 or thereabouts. I may still have one of
the prototypes buried in a box somewhere. The FotoMan worked
surprisingly well, and the image quality wasn't bad at all.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
4:20 p.m.
New subject: Early Electronic Image Capture
be marketed and the first to record images on
removable flash card media.
It recorded images digitally on SRAM memory cards (SRAM - Static Access
How can SRAM (Static Random Access Memory, BTW) be a 'flash card'?
Random Memory), with built-in battery for maintaining
the memory rather than
on a floppy disk as used by still video cameras of that time. The card was
developed jointly with Toshiba. 400K CCD. Fixed-focus 16mm f/5.6 (f/4
with flash) lens. Shutter 1/60 to 1/2000 second. *Understanding Electronic
Photography*, John J. Larish, 1990, p44.
-tony
31 May
31 May
9:11 a.m.
New subject: Early Electronic Image Capture
--- Tony Duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
How can SRAM (Static Random Access Memory, BTW) be a
'flash card'?
He probably means in the sense of non-volatile ram
cards (battery backed up). I have a nv-ram cart for
the Mindset. Haven't played with me Mindsets at
all...and have more on the way WOOHOO! Anyone out
there w/stuff for the Mindset they want to donate/sell/trade?
____________________________________________________________________________________
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Check out fun summer activities for kids.
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30 May
30 May
2:50 p.m.
New subject: Early Electronic Image Capture
--- Roger Merchberger <zmerch-cctalk at 30below.com>
wrote:
Couldn't tell you the "first" but I do
know a system
for the RatShack/Tandy
line (Color Computer, prolly Model I/III/4) was
called the Digisector
DS-69B - "Hot Lips" Houlihan (Loretta Swit) from
M*A*S*H (the series) used
to advertise for the company - I remember seeing
them in HotCoCo & Rainbow
way back when...
Let's not leave out early framegrabbers. Anyone
remember ComputerEyes? I saw one on eBay a few years
ago, cheap too, but got lazy.
I remember going into a computer store on Long Island
and seeing a b&w Panasonic ntsc camera hooked to an
Amiga through some sort of framegrabber. And the idea
was to produce a color picture using r,g, and b
colored filters in front of the lense, and through
some funky software conglomerating the 3. That dude
didn't have much experience playing with those warez
though. LOL LOL it just looked like a big mess.
A book that I never owned, though perused on occasion
(?) called something like Practical Image Processing
in C had plans for a frame grabber. Prolly dated from
the late 80's. Someone should build that for fun.
____________________________________________________________________________________
Bored stiff? Loosen up...
Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.
http://games.yahoo.com/games/front
5:54 p.m.
New subject: Early Electronic Image Capture
do u mean this from 1986 http://www.digicamhistory.com/1986.html
*NEWTEK Digi-View - 1986. **In 1986 the NewTek* Digi-View, built to run
on the Amiga platform, was the first inexpensive video digitizer designed
for home computers. * It was developed to take advantage of the Amiga 1000's
advanced video capabilities. **Digi-View was also the first personal
computer digitizer to capture 4096-color, photo quality images. ** Soon
afterward, NewTek followed with DigiPaint, which provided video painting
capabilities within the computer system. * The Newtek DigiView video
digitizer was the first example of a video digitizing system. It was
developed to take advantage of the Amiga 1000's advanced video capabilities
and was pluged into the Amiga's parallel printer port. A video cable then
lead from the digitizer to either a B&W video camera with a color wheel
attached, or to an external color splitter box. The DigiView took 3 passes
to digitize a frame, and each pass was done by filtering through one of 3
primary colors: red, green, and blue. This meant that the image being
digitized had be still or paused. The digitizer generally captured at
320x200 pixels with up to 4096 colors, but was capable of 640x200 pixels if
the system had sufficient memory. Once all three captures were done, the
Newtek software then merged them into a single color capture. *Thanks to
Patrick Murphy for providing information concering the Digi-View.*
On 5/30/07, Chris M <chrism3667 at yahoo.com> wrote:
--- Roger Merchberger <zmerch-cctalk at 30below.com>
wrote:
Couldn't tell you the "first" but I
do know a system
for the RatShack/Tandy
line (Color Computer, prolly Model I/III/4) was
called the Digisector
DS-69B - "Hot Lips" Houlihan (Loretta Swit) from
M*A*S*H (the series) used
to advertise for the company - I remember seeing
them in HotCoCo & Rainbow
way back when...
Let's not leave out early framegrabbers. Anyone
remember ComputerEyes? I saw one on eBay a few years
ago, cheap too, but got lazy.
I remember going into a computer store on Long Island
and seeing a b&w Panasonic ntsc camera hooked to an
Amiga through some sort of framegrabber. And the idea
was to produce a color picture using r,g, and b
colored filters in front of the lense, and through
some funky software conglomerating the 3. That dude
didn't have much experience playing with those warez
though. LOL LOL it just looked like a big mess.
A book that I never owned, though perused on occasion
(?) called something like Practical Image Processing
in C had plans for a frame grabber. Prolly dated from
the late 80's. Someone should build that for fun.
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7:07 p.m.
New subject: Early Electronic Image Capture
On 5/30/07, Chris Halarewich <halarewich at gmail.com> wrote:
*NEWTEK Digi-View - 1986. **In 1986 the NewTek*
Digi-View, built to run
on the Amiga platform, was the first inexpensive video digitizer designed
I remember the ads for those - I thought the color wheel was the
coolest thing. I wanted one for my A500. Dunno what I would have
done with it, but it was on the back cover of every copy of Info
magazine, and it was from the Video Toaster people, so I had to have
it.
In a similar vein, I dug this up from my basement for a pic:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/chiclassiccomp/522496721/in/set-72157600033400…
Not a digital camera, but a digitizer box like the ComputerEyes or
Digi-View, but for the Mac+. I'll have to dig out an old Mac and give
it a try sometime.
31 May
31 May
9:50 a.m.
New subject: Early Electronic Image Capture
Yo I still have mine! It was awful! I have a few
pictures that are nevertheless somewhat endearing
(like one of my niece when she was a first starting to
walk. Awwwww).
There may have been different devices by the
ComputerEyes people, but I think they had at least 1
ISA board IIRC.
--- Jason T <silent700 at gmail.com> wrote:
In a similar vein, I dug this up from my basement
for a pic:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/chiclassiccomp/522496721/in/set-72157600033400…
Not a digital camera, but a digitizer box like the
ComputerEyes or
Digi-View, but for the Mac+. I'll have to dig out
an old Mac and give
it a try sometime.
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30 May
30 May
7:29 p.m.
New subject: Early Electronic Image Capture
On 5/30/07, Chris Halarewich <halarewich at gmail.com> wrote:
do u mean this from 1986
http://www.digicamhistory.com/1986.html
*NEWTEK Digi-View - 1986. **In 1986 the NewTek* Digi-View, built to run
on the Amiga platform, was the first inexpensive video digitizer designed
for home computers....
... A video cable then
lead from the digitizer to either a B&W video camera with a color wheel
attached, or to an external color splitter box. The DigiView took 3 passes
to digitize a frame, and each pass was done by filtering through one of 3
primary colors: red, green, and blue.
... *Thanks to
Patrick Murphy for providing information concering the Digi-View.*
Patrick Murphy must never have used one... it was *4* captures: one
red, one blue, one green and one with no color filter (for
contrast)... sort of the opposite of a CMYK.
I have something similar in a Polaroid product - a high-res B&W CRT in
a box with an internal motorized color wheel and a video input. You
provide a 15KHz (NTSC freq) RGB video stream to the box, press the
"freeze" button, which captures an image internally, then it shows 4
different views through the 4 portions of the wheel and exposes a
frame of film 4 times before advancing.
I picked it up at Dayton, natually, and managed to come across the
essential control panel later. I've run a few rolls of film through
it, mostly to create interstitial slides for slide shows. It's not as
high-res as sending JPEGs out to a service bureau, but I've used my
Amiga to render text on a pleasing blue background, then exposed some
nice Fujichrome 100 slide film for a total cost of under $10/roll, or
about $0.28 per background slide.
-ethan
7:42 p.m.
New subject: Early Electronic Image Capture
On May 30, 2007, at 10:29 PM, Ethan Dicks wrote:
I have something similar in a Polaroid product - a
high-res B&W CRT in
a box with an internal motorized color wheel and a video input. You
provide a 15KHz (NTSC freq) RGB video stream to the box, press the
"freeze" button, which captures an image internally, then it shows 4
different views through the 4 portions of the wheel and exposes a
frame of film 4 times before advancing.
I picked it up at Dayton, natually, and managed to come across the
essential control panel later. I've run a few rolls of film through
it, mostly to create interstitial slides for slide shows. It's not as
high-res as sending JPEGs out to a service bureau, but I've used my
Amiga to render text on a pleasing blue background, then exposed some
nice Fujichrome 100 slide film for a total cost of under $10/roll, or
about $0.28 per background slide.
Would that be a Polaroid Palette? My first (real) job was working
in a computer store in NJ...We "sold" those. I quote "sold" because
I don't think we actually sold even one in the ~2yrs I was there.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
8:34 p.m.
New subject: Early Electronic Image Capture
On 5/30/07, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote:
On May 30, 2007, at 10:29 PM, Ethan Dicks wrote:
It might be - mine is about 6" wide, 5" tall, about 18" deep, with two
camera fronts (Polaroid Medical Imaging Film or ASA 100 slide), a
number of BNCs on the back for sync/R/G/B, plus a DB25 to a
pendant-type console that is the size of a small text book, with a few
buttons and a couple of slide pots. I'd quote chapter and verse for
the model, but it's not where I am.
Since the input is analog video, I don't think it's a Polaroid
"Digital Palette" product. It's certainly nowhere close to 2000 lines
of resolution. ~500 at the outside, most likely closer to 200 or 240
lines.
This one is not clearly meant to be computer-controlled. The way I've
used it is to attach a video source (Amiga) to the inputs, a 15KHz RGB
monitor (Barco, VR241, NEC 3d, C= 1950...) to the outputs, then
visually compose the scene and press a console button to "freeze" the
image, which can then be tweaked with the slide pots, until one
presses "print". Much noise issues from the machine, the film
advances, and one repeats the process.
-ethan
I have something similar in a Polaroid product -
a high-res B&W CRT in
a box with an internal motorized color wheel and a video input...
Would that be a Polaroid Palette? My first (real) job was working
in a computer store in NJ...We "sold" those. I quote "sold" because
I don't think we actually sold even one in the ~2yrs I was there.
8:49 p.m.
New subject: Early Electronic Image Capture
On May 30, 2007, at 11:34 PM, Ethan Dicks wrote:
It might be - mine is about 6" wide, 5" tall, about 18" deep, with two
camera fronts (Polaroid Medical Imaging Film or ASA 100 slide), a
number of BNCs on the back for sync/R/G/B, plus a DB25 to a
pendant-type console that is the size of a small text book, with a few
buttons and a couple of slide pots. I'd quote chapter and verse for
the model, but it's not where I am.
Since the input is analog video, I don't think it's a Polaroid
"Digital Palette" product. It's certainly nowhere close to 2000 lines
of resolution. ~500 at the outside, most likely closer to 200 or 240
lines.
This one is not clearly meant to be computer-controlled. The way I've
used it is to attach a video source (Amiga) to the inputs, a 15KHz RGB
monitor (Barco, VR241, NEC 3d, C= 1950...) to the outputs, then
visually compose the scene and press a console button to "freeze" the
image, which can then be tweaked with the slide pots, until one
presses "print". Much noise issues from the machine, the film
advances, and one repeats the process.
Ahhhhh ok. I've heard of those but have never seen one. I
believe it was (more or less) the predecessor of the computer-driven
one that my store used to sell.
Man, that box sounds like lots of fun!
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
I have something similar in a Polaroid product - a
high-res B&W
CRT in
a box with an internal motorized color wheel and
a video input...
Would that be a Polaroid Palette? My first (real) job was working
in a computer store in NJ...We "sold" those. I quote "sold" because
I don't think we actually sold even one in the ~2yrs I was there. 
9:18 p.m.
New subject: Early Electronic Image Capture
On Wednesday 30 May 2007 22:29, Ethan Dicks wrote:
On 5/30/07, Chris Halarewich <halarewich at
gmail.com> wrote:
This reminds me of a gizmo I worked on some years back...
My brother worked for a photo processing place at that point in time. The guy
who owned it had just spent something like $1800 to get that
machine "refurbed" at the factory, and it wasn't right. The setup with
this
was that you'd mount a color negative on it, and then adjust the controls
for a good looking picture on the screen -- it used multiple filters and
photomultiplier tubes to split the colors up, and it would then tell you by
the control settings what you needed to do in the printing processing to get
good prints out of it.
Nifty gadget, even if one small portion of it was rather poorly implemented.
(And yes, I did get it fixed. :-)
--
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space, ?a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed. ?--Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James
M Dakin
do u mean this from 1986
http://www.digicamhistory.com/1986.html
*NEWTEK Digi-View - 1986. **In 1986 the NewTek* Digi-View, built to
run on the Amiga platform, was the first inexpensive video digitizer
designed for home computers....
... A video cable then
lead from the digitizer to either a B&W video camera with a color wheel
attached, or to an external color splitter box. The DigiView took 3
passes to digitize a frame, and each pass was done by filtering through
one of 3 primary colors: red, green, and blue.
... *Thanks to
Patrick Murphy for providing information concering the Digi-View.*
Patrick Murphy must never have used one... it was *4* captures: one
red, one blue, one green and one with no color filter (for
contrast)... sort of the opposite of a CMYK.
I have something similar in a Polaroid product - a high-res B&W CRT in
a box with an internal motorized color wheel and a video input. You
provide a 15KHz (NTSC freq) RGB video stream to the box, press the
"freeze" button, which captures an image internally, then it shows 4
different views through the 4 portions of the wheel and exposes a
frame of film 4 times before advancing.
I picked it up at Dayton, natually, and managed to come across the
essential control panel later. I've run a few rolls of film through
it, mostly to create interstitial slides for slide shows. It's not as
high-res as sending JPEGs out to a service bureau, but I've used my
Amiga to render text on a pleasing blue background, then exposed some
nice Fujichrome 100 slide film for a total cost of under $10/roll, or
about $0.28 per background slide.
31 May
31 May
3:17 p.m.
New subject: Early Electronic Image Capture
I have something similar in a Polaroid product - a
high-res B&W CRT in
a box with an internal motorized color wheel and a video input. You
provide a 15KHz (NTSC freq) RGB video stream to the box, press the
"freeze" button, which captures an image internally, then it shows 4
different views through the 4 portions of the wheel and exposes a
frame of film 4 times before advancing.
Interesting. I have a similar, but probably older Polaroid product,
called, IIRC, a 'Videoprinter 4'.
There doesn't seem to be any internal video storage. You give it RS-170
timed (TV rates) RGB video) on seprate BNC sonnectors. Inside is a small
mono monitor, the colour filter wheel, a stepper motor to turn that, and
some control electronics. The latter is microprocesor-based, I want to
say 8080, but it may be an 8085 or something.
On the front is a 'camera'. This uses an enlerger lense (presumably
chosen because it's computed for use at close distances) and a Polaroid
SX70 film back. The camera can be removed, I got what seems to have been
a home-made bracket with mine which probably held some 35mm SLR. I have
no idea what SLR was used, though.
Anyway, it moves each filter into the light path in turn, selects the
appropriate video 'colour' signal and then unblanks the CRT for the
appropriate time. After doing all three colours, it ejects the print from
the side of the film back.
It got it with my I2S Model 70 image processor/display systems
(minicomputer peripherals dating from about 1980 IIRC). It was, alas, the
only part of that system that I got no documentation on (I got full
schematisc of the I2S machines and the Barco monitor, etc). Polaroid told
me they'd never made such a device and couldn't supply a manual.
Oh well, one day I'll take some time to figute it all out.
-tony
3:45 a.m.
New subject: Early Electronic Image Capture
Chris Halarewich wrote:
In 1986 the NewTek* Digi-View, built to run on the
Amiga platform,
was the first inexpensive video digitizer designed for home
computers.
That I can believe...
The Newtek DigiView video digitizer was the first
example of a video
digitizing system.
... but that? Surely the big players had such systems back into the '70s? I'm
sure I've seen mention of such things built around PDP hardware, graphics
terminals, and custom (naturally!) software.
Maybe they just mean it was the first example of a commercial home product?
It was
developed to take advantage of the Amiga 1000's advanced video capabilities
and was pluged into the Amiga's parallel printer port. A video cable then
lead from the digitizer to either a B&W video camera with a color wheel
attached
We got hold of something like that with an A500 setup a while back, but the
colour wheel had to be turned manually rather than being an automatic thing
(as I think the digiview is). Can't for the life of me remember who made it now...
9:44 a.m.
New subject: Early Electronic Image Capture
--- Chris Halarewich <halarewich at gmail.com> wrote:
do u mean this from 1986
http://www.digicamhistory.com/1986.html
*NEWTEK Digi-View - 1986.
I don't know what it was called. That's probably it
though. And it did use a color wheel.
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30 May
30 May
8:07 p.m.
New subject: Early Electronic Image Capture
Let's not leave out early framegrabbers. Anyone
remember ComputerEyes? I saw one on eBay a few years
ago, cheap too, but got lazy.
I have a brazilian made one. Will put later in www.tabajara-labs.com.br
(which has other apple items exposed as well)
I remember going into a computer store on Long Island
and seeing a b&w Panasonic ntsc camera hooked to an
Amiga through some sort of framegrabber. And the idea
was to produce a color picture using r,g, and b
colored filters in front of the lense, and through
Digiview (:oD). Have schematics avaiable, just in case someone is
interested. :o)
31 May
31 May
5:55 a.m.
New subject: Early Electronic Image Capture
At 10:07 PM 5/30/2007, Alexandre Souza wrote:
Digiview (:oD). Have schematics avaiable, just in
case someone is interested. :o)
Schematics to the real Newtek design? In my collection I have an
exceedingly rare, perhaps unique, un-potted Digiview card.
Normally, they poured epoxy into the plastic case to keep out prying eyes.
- John
6:41 a.m.
New subject: Early Electronic Image Capture
Digiview
(:oD). Have schematics avaiable, just in case someone is
interested. :o)
Schematics to the real Newtek design? In my collection I have an
exceedingly rare, perhaps unique, un-potted Digiview card.
Normally, they poured epoxy into the plastic case to keep out prying eyes. 
29 May
29 May
9:23 p.m.
New subject: early digital image sensing / was Re: enough already...
Chuck Guzis wrote:
On 29 May 2007 at 17:27, Rick Bensene wrote:
Don't know if this is the answer you're looking for, but it reminds me of the
"Cyclops" camera: a peripheral for the computer hobbyist market, contemporary
with the Altair/IMSAI . I assembled one for a friend who had an IMSAI in 1976
or 1977. I don't think we ever got it to work.
My recollection is that the sensor was a CCD array, but the occasional mention
of these modified-DRAMs on the list leaves me wondering. I don't remember what
the matrix size was: 256^2 seems too large, 16^2 seems too small, perhaps 64^2.
I'm sure there must be adverts in Byte of the period. It would be a pretty
rare find to come across one today.
Motion seconded. I can't see how anything
related to digital cameras
(except some of the very early video digitizing stuff) has anything to
do with classic computing.
To put the subject back in the domain of "vintage"...
What outfit first sold digital cameras where the sensor consisted of
a cermet-package DRAM with the chip cover replaced by a piece of
glued-on glass? Does anyone own one?
Cheers,
Chuck
10:01 p.m.
New subject: early digital image sensing / was Re: enough already...
This is on topic.
I have an old BYTE magazine that talks about the use of DRAMs with the
covers removed and a piece of glass placed over the chip, and using the
memory chip as an image sensor. If I recall correctly, the first chip
used was an early Mostek MK5009. They weren't great in terms of
resolution, but making multiple passes through reading, could gain a
couple of bits of grayscale resolution. They needed pretty high light
levels, but served as usable image sensors.
Many years ago, I knew a guy that made a small business out of using
early 64Kx1 (256 x 256 array) DRAM chips, suitably modified, as image
sensors for PDP-11 based product inspection systems.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org
[mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Brent Hilpert
Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 9:23 PM
To: General at priv-edmwaa06.telusplanet.net; On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: early digital image sensing / was Re: enough already...
Chuck Guzis wrote:
Don't know if this is the answer you're looking for, but it reminds me
of the
"Cyclops" camera: a peripheral for the computer hobbyist market,
contemporary
with the Altair/IMSAI . I assembled one for a friend who had an IMSAI in
1976
or 1977. I don't think we ever got it to work.
My recollection is that the sensor was a CCD array, but the occasional
mention
of these modified-DRAMs on the list leaves me wondering. I don't
remember what
the matrix size was: 256^2 seems too large, 16^2 seems too small,
perhaps 64^2.
I'm sure there must be adverts in Byte of the period. It would be a
pretty
rare find to come across one today.
On 29 May 2007 at 17:27, Rick Bensene wrote:
> Motion seconded. I can't see how anything related to digital
cameras
> (except some of the very early video digitizing
stuff) has anything
to
do with
classic computing.
To put the subject back in the domain of "vintage"...
What outfit first sold digital cameras where the sensor consisted of
a cermet-package DRAM with the chip cover replaced by a piece of
glued-on glass? Does anyone own one?
Cheers,
Chuck
30 May
30 May
2:42 p.m.
New subject: enough already (was: digital camera capabilities)
--- Chuck Guzis <cclist at sydex.com> wrote:
To put the subject back in the domain of
"vintage"...
What outfit first sold digital cameras where the
sensor consisted of
a cermet-package DRAM with the chip cover replaced
by a piece of
glued-on glass? Does anyone own one?
Don't know. But Steve Ciarcia published plans for
something like that. In Byte or somewhere. There was
also a set of plans to connect something similar to a
Commie 64. Think I saw it in a book, don't ask me the title.
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1:30 a.m.
New subject: enough already (was: digital camera capabilities)
On Tue, 2007-05-29 at 17:27 -0700, Rick Bensene wrote:
Motion seconded. I can't see how anything related
to digital cameras
(except some of the very early video digitizing stuff) has anything to
do with classic computing.
I have a digital camera that is now (and in fact, as of last friday) 10
years old ;-)
The image quality is *definitely* not as good as an SLR, or even a
pointy clicky Instamatic. Great for grainy lo-fi shots though.
Gordon
4:25 p.m.
New subject: enough already (was: digital camera capabilities)
On Tue, 2007-05-29 at 17:27 -0700, Rick Bensene wrote:
Actually, I now ermember I do have a 'digital' camera on the
to-be-repaired [ole, and I suspect it's getting on for 20 years old...
It's a 'Datacopy 300'. Inside there's a linear CCD (one line of pixels),
probably around 2000 pixels long. It's moved across the image frame by a
motor and leadscrew, obviously this camera only works for static
subjects. Inside the body of the unit are half a dozen PCBs containing
the CCD drive electtronics, motor driver, ADC, intensity correction (the
output from the ADC is multiplies -- yes an 8*8 full multiplier chip is
in htere -- with a vulue from an EPROM, one location for each pixel on
the CCD, to correct for uneven response of the CCD)., etc
There is no itnernal storage or PSU. There's a DB25 connector on the
back. The interfac board I have for it goes i na PERQ OIO slot, I beleive
the camera then conencts to the PERQs 'laser printer' connector, which is
simply wired to pins on the OIO slot.
I've never tried to get it working, maybe I should...
-tony
Motion seconded. I can't see how anything
related to digital cameras
(except some of the very early video digitizing stuff) has anything to
do with classic computing.
I have a digital camera that is now (and in fact, as of last friday) 10
years old ;-)
31 May
31 May
9:12 a.m.
New subject: enough already (was: digital camera capabilities)
--- Tony Duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
Actually, I now ermember I do have a
'digital'
camera on the
to-be-repaired [ole, and I suspect it's getting on
for 20 years old...
It's a 'Datacopy 300'. Inside there's a linear CCD
(one line of pixels),
probably around 2000 pixels long. It's moved across
the image frame by a
motor and leadscrew, obviously this camera only
works for static
subjects. Inside the body of the unit are half a
dozen PCBs containing
the CCD drive electtronics, motor driver, ADC,
intensity correction (the
output from the ADC is multiplies -- yes an 8*8 full
multiplier chip is
in htere -- with a vulue from an EPROM, one location
for each pixel on
the CCD, to correct for uneven response of the
CCD)., etc
LOL LOL sounds more like a hand scanner matey! LOL
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9:50 a.m.
New subject: enough already (was: digital camera capabilities)
Comment as list administrator
-------------------------------
Re: below post
As a common courtesy, please at least make some attempt to appropriately
trim replies....
-------------------------------
Comment as just another listmember
------------------------------------
I wonder if the list software supports stripping the characters
<space>LOL<space> from all list posts.
------------------------------------
Jay (vying for the "grumpy old...." title) West
--- Tony Duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk>
wrote:
Actually, I now ermember I do have a
'digital'
camera on the
to-be-repaired [ole, and I suspect it's getting on
for 20 years old...
It's a 'Datacopy 300'. Inside there's a linear CCD
(one line of pixels),
probably around 2000 pixels long. It's moved across
the image frame by a
motor and leadscrew, obviously this camera only
works for static
subjects. Inside the body of the unit are half a
dozen PCBs containing
the CCD drive electtronics, motor driver, ADC,
intensity correction (the
output from the ADC is multiplies -- yes an 8*8 full
multiplier chip is
in htere -- with a vulue from an EPROM, one location
for each pixel on
the CCD, to correct for uneven response of the
CCD)., etc
LOL LOL sounds more like a hand scanner matey! LOL
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3:44 p.m.
New subject: enough already (was: digital camera capabilities)
> Actually, I now ermember I do have a
'digital'
> camera on the
> to-be-repaired [ole, and I suspect it's getting on
> for 20 years old...
>
> It's a 'Datacopy 300'. Inside there's a linear CCD
[...]
LOL LOL sounds more like a hand scanner matey! LOL
Thank you, I do know the difference. Very few hand scanners have a Nikon
bayonet lens mount on the front...
-tony
7:09 p.m.
New subject: enough already (was: digital camera capabilities)
Thank you, I do know the difference. Very few hand
scanners have a Nikon
bayonet lens mount on the front...
Hmmm...since the CCD is not read at once (it is scanned) and you take
the camera with your hand, I know many Nikon cameras with bayonet lens mount
on the front :o)
Sorry Tony, I couldn't resist that :oD
Greetings from Brazil
Alexandre Souza
LMAO! >:oD
29 May
29 May
6:58 p.m.
New subject: enough already (was: digital camera capabilities)
OK!!!
Just joking, sort of.
I have several adverts for Interlude (on TRS-80) in my 80 Microcomputing magazines - the
advert features a woman on a bed in her underwear laying next to a TRS-80. I just wondered
if anyone had it and what it contained. Was it just a clever program with the computer
trying to talk (and act?!) like a erm.. woman in responce to something you typed or did it
contain graphic pictures of sorts??
If it's the latter then I'm not interested (got plenty of real women for that :) )
and it would be sooo OT.
Regards,
Andrew B
aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk
Jim Battle <frustum at pacbell.net> wrote:
Back in 1992 or so, I recall some character at work bringing in a floppy
for the Apple II. When nobody was looking, he booted it up. Lo and
behold, it was a very solarized, low framerate video of a certain sex
act. It was really technically impressive ... the programming, that is
:-) . Let's all talk about our pornography preferences. We must have
at least a few experts on the list that can share their insights.
12:39 p.m.
Rumor has it that Jay West may have mentioned these words:
Ok, we're going to dovetail this discussion in to
classic computers, right? ;)
J
Well, I did use a digital SLR (Nikon D70) to take these pix of VCF-MW
2006... ;-)
http://zmerch.30below.com/vcf_mw_06/
Other than adjust white balance; edit exposure levels slightly; and convert
from RAW to JPG, these are pretty much untouched out of
the camera. I did
shoot RAW, so there's a lot more color/pixel information
available
(originals are 3028x2002 resolution w/36-bit per pixel color depth)...
about 5Meg per picture losslessly compressed - the full-size .jpgs are
about 1.8Meg each. I have the originals archived & backed up, but due to
size & stress on the server, they're password protected. If anyone needs
access to them, I can grant it.
No, I'm not a great photographer, and yes, due to the wide variance in
lighting situations, I pretty much left the camera on full-auto (read:
brainless mode ;-) for the show.
Altho all pix are copyright yours truly, use of any image is free (as in
beer) w/proper credit given. Thanks!
Laterz,
Roger "Merch" Merchberger
--
Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- SysAdmin, Iceberg Computers
zmerch at 30below.com
What do you do when Life gives you lemons,
and you don't *like* lemonade?????????????
12:15 p.m.
On Tue, 29 May 2007, Jim MacKenzie wrote:
A good 4x5 camera with a good lens costs about as much
as a professional
DSLR. A good used 4x5 costs significantly less. I got my whole 4x5 system
for about $500 including darkroom gear.
... and used deals exist.
My Linhof was "25$ for most of a Linhof", and I had to hand machine parts
to mount a Graphlex back on it.
My "Century 8 x 10" was $5! But restoring it to barely working order was
a LOT of work.
But my monorail 4x5 and Toyo field view were each over $100 (like paying
$300 for an old computer)
None of my Leicas were in working order when I got them.
Can anybody, PLEASE, tell me where to find comparable deals on a 4x5
digital back?
BTW, Panasonic (and Leica) have some digitals with a "Vario-Summicron"
lens. Does that have anything in common, other than trademark with the
REAL Leitz Summicrons?
5:15 p.m.
Tony Duell wrote...
I'm suprised about the 90mm.. Normally thsee things are wide angle.
I hadn't eralised they were available for DSLRs. I've seen them for
normal 35mm flim SLRs -- in fact I did consider buying a PC-Nikkor (PC =
Perspective Control -- i.e. tilt and shift) for my Nikon F. But then I
relaised a large-format camera was about the same price...
-tony
The right way to get better depth of field for
oblique shots is to tilt
the lens (!).
[...]
The problem is that no digital camera has a tilting front.
In the interests of completeness, I should say that this isn't strictly
speaking true. Canon make EOS mount tilt/shift lenses, which will work on
any of their digital SLRs (three of them, 24, 45 and 90mm IIRC.) In fact,
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