2 Jan
2002
2 Jan
'02
7:06 p.m.
sometimes i forget that computer folks r technical people.
i come from the arts where the only thing that is needed is
understanding.
i am on stage sometimes and all the musicians do is
just nod or look at each other and everyone understands them.
will try and and be more precise. i guess here that is needed.
joee
2 Jan
2 Jan
8:39 p.m.
On Thu, 3 Jan 2002 Golemancd(a)aol.com wrote:
sometimes i forget that computer folks r technical
people.
i come from the arts where the only thing that is needed is
understanding.
Without meaning, there can be no understanding. Without proper
punctuation, grammar, syntax, and spelling, there can be no meaning.
Without education, there can be no proper punctuation, grammar, syntax,
and spelling.
i am on stage sometimes and all the musicians do is
just nod or look at each other and everyone understands them.
will try and and be more precise. i guess here that is needed.
Yeah. You can't just nod here and expect people to understand you.
Unfortunately, nobody can see you nod through e-mail.
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *
3 Jan
3 Jan
2:19 a.m.
At 11:39 PM 1/2/2002 -0800, Sellam Ismail wrote:
And keep in mind that the musicians only *think* they're
communicating. :-) Insert drummer joke here.
- John
On Thu, 3 Jan 2002 Golemancd(a)aol.com wrote:
But Joe, feel free to swear like a sailor or shout real loud
if someone isn't getting it.
sometimes i forget that computer folks r
technical people.
i come from the arts where the only thing that is needed is
understanding.
Without meaning, there can be no understanding. Without proper
punctuation, grammar, syntax, and spelling, there can be no meaning.
Without education, there can be no proper punctuation, grammar, syntax,
and spelling. i am on stage
sometimes and all the musicians do is
just nod or look at each other and everyone understands them.
will try and and be more precise. i guess here that is needed.
Yeah. You can't just nod here and expect people to understand you.
Unfortunately, nobody can see you nod through e-mail. 
4 Jan
4 Jan
5:52 a.m.
John Foust writes:
Insert drummer joke here.
Q: How do you know when there's a drummer at your door?
A: The knocking keeps getting faster.
ObTopic:
http://www.scientificamerican.com/2001/0801issue/0801hargrove.html
3 Jan
3 Jan
2:37 a.m.
Language is a precision tool, one sufficiently flexible that both artists
and technicians can use it.
In the absence of a suitable knife, it can even be used to gut gits.
On Wed, 2 Jan 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote:
On Thu, 3 Jan 2002 Golemancd(a)aol.com wrote:
M. K. Peirce
Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc.
Shady Lea, Rhode Island
"Casta est quam nemo rogavit."
- Ovid
sometimes i forget that computer folks r
technical people.
i come from the arts where the only thing that is needed is
understanding.
Without meaning, there can be no understanding. Without proper
punctuation, grammar, syntax, and spelling, there can be no meaning.
Without education, there can be no proper punctuation, grammar, syntax,
and spelling.
i am on stage sometimes and all the musicians do
is
just nod or look at each other and everyone understands them.
will try and and be more precise. i guess here that is needed.
Yeah. You can't just nod here and expect people to understand you.
Unfortunately, nobody can see you nod through e-mail.
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *
3:48 a.m.
It's not that people here are snooty and require proper English to post to
the list, it's just that run-on sentences with improper grammar and no
punctuation and capitalization is a real pain in the ass to read.
It also makes the reader assume (sometimes wrongly...) that the person
posting the message is a complete idiot, and advice, suggestions, and
answers will not be understood when given. This is a technical group, and
speaking for myself, it's hoped by the person giving advice that the
recipient of the advice will be able to utilize it without asking questions
like: "where is the power switch?".
I'm not going to make any assumptions regarding your education level or
intelligence, but what you write and how you write it does give an
impression on the receiving end.
God knows my English isn't perfect...... : )
- Matt
At 01:06 AM 1/3/2002 -0500, you wrote:
sometimes i forget that computer folks r technical
people.
i come from the arts where the only thing that is needed is
understanding.
i am on stage sometimes and all the musicians do is
just nod or look at each other and everyone understands them.
will try and and be more precise. i guess here that is needed.
joee
Matthew Sell
Programmer
On Time Support, Inc.
www.ontimesupport.com
(281) 296-6066
Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST!
http://www.ontimesupport.com/cgi-bin/mojo/mojo.cgi
"One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad
"Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler
Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er...
4:29 a.m.
Your first sentence is an excellent example of a run-on sentence. However,
you forgot to allude to the lack of agreement in number between the subject
and verb of the second (run-on) clause.
In point of fact, it is really easy to assume that the person who doesn't
(suggesting that he can't) write clearly and correctly doesn't know, in
general, what he's writing about. That may or may not be the case, but it
doesn't shore-up confidence in his poorly constructed remarks.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matthew Sell" <msell(a)ontimesupport.com>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 7:48 AM
Subject: Re: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment
It's not that people here are snooty and require proper English to post to
the list, it's just that run-on sentences with improper grammar and no
punctuation and capitalization is a real pain in the ass to read.
It also makes the reader assume (sometimes wrongly...) that the person
posting the message is a complete idiot, and advice, suggestions, and
answers will not be understood when given. This is a technical group, and
speaking for myself, it's hoped by the person giving advice that the
recipient of the advice will be able to utilize it without asking
questions
like: "where is the power switch?".
I'm not going to make any assumptions regarding your education level or
intelligence, but what you write and how you write it does give an
impression on the receiving end.
God knows my English isn't perfect...... : )
- Matt
At 01:06 AM 1/3/2002 -0500, you wrote:
sometimes i forget that computer folks r technical
people.
i come from the arts where the only thing that is needed is
understanding.
i am on stage sometimes and all the musicians do is
just nod or look at each other and everyone understands them.
will try and and be more precise. i guess here that is needed.
joee
Matthew Sell
Programmer
On Time Support, Inc.
www.ontimesupport.com
(281) 296-6066
Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST!
http://www.ontimesupport.com/cgi-bin/mojo/mojo.cgi
"One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad
"Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler
Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er...
1:56 p.m.
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4 Jan
4 Jan
12:55 a.m.
this is not a reply to any particular message but to the thread as a
whole -- you sound like a bunch of old-fashioned high school english
teachers -- i mean come on people - form follows function - or at least
it has for the last 30 years since marshal mcluhan - if you cant
understand someones post without consulting a thesaurus grammarian and
lexicon of the english language is it worth a diatribe -- i tend to
ignore capitalization and punctuation also - save for the generic
pause -- and if you cant decipher my messages is it perhaps because of a
failure in the reader rather than the writer ? i really dont care ----
and no offense meant where not taken voluntarily -- billp
ps -- i am not a warez dood - dont own a cell phone - and have never
instant messaged anyone
On Thursday, January 3, 2002, at 07:56 PM, Tony Duell wrote:
It's not that people here are snooty and require proper English to
post to
the list, it's just that run-on sentences with improper grammar and no
punctuation and capitalization is a real pain in the ass to read.
Well, personally I don't normally comment on spelling/ grammar/
punctuation. Particularly since English is not the first language of
some
people on this list.
I only comment when there's likely to be technical confusion (as with
the
'Centronics' connectors).
It also makes the reader assume (sometimes wrongly...) that the person
posting the message is a complete idiot, and advice, suggestions, and
answers will not be understood when given. This is a technical group,
and
Most of the regulars here will hopefully confirm that I am fairly 'free'
with techanical information. I don't mind digging out databooks or
schematics, etc. I don't mind doing a few back-of-the-envelope
calculations.
But if I would have to spend significant time deciphering your message
to
work out just what you were asking for, well, I am not likely to do
that.
Instead I'll just ignore it.
God knows my English isn't perfect......
: )
Nor is mine....
-tony
8:08 a.m.
On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, bill pointon wrote:
this is not a reply to any particular message but to
the thread as a
^
T
whole -- you sound like a bunch of old-fashioned high
school english
^^^ ^ ^
. Y E
teachers -- i mean come on people - form follows
function - or at least
^^^ ^ ^^
^^
. I : ,
it has for the last 30 years since marshal mcluhan -
if you cant
^ ^ ^ ^^ ^ ^
M M L . I '
understand someones post without consulting a
thesaurus grammarian and
^
^^^^^^^^^^
' <extraneous>
lexicon of the english language is it worth a diatribe
-- i tend to
^ ^ ^^^ ^
E , ? I
ignore capitalization and punctuation also - save for
the generic
^^
,
pause -- and if you cant decipher my messages is it
perhaps because of a
^^^ ^^^ ^ ^
. <extraneous> I '
failure in the reader rather than the writer ? i
really dont care ----
^ ^
^ ^^^^^
<no space> I ' ,
and no offense meant where not taken voluntarily --
billp
^^^
.
ps -- i am not a warez dood - dont own a cell phone -
and have never
^^ ^^ ^ ^^ ^ ^^
P.S. <extraneous> I , ' ,
instant messaged anyone
^
^
- .
You get an 'F'.
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *
12:25 p.m.
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2:16 p.m.
On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Tony Duell wrote:
compiler, and that program doesn't comply with it.
However, if I got errors
compiling this program :
#include<stdio.h>
int main (int argc, char **argv)
{
printf("hello world\n);
exit(0);
}
It might simply mean you missed a closing double-quote....
Sorry, but I couldn't resist.
Doc
6:40 p.m.
I generally try to taylor my language to my audience, and when
communicating with humans, I have often found them to be more
intelligent than compilers, I also don't use the emoticons that many
lists seem to like as I find they remnd me too much of laugh tracks in b
movies. However, I shall henceforth correspond only in ANSI c; though if
i occasional lisp, i hope that you wont consider it an impediment. Again
my friends, I mean no offense to anyone, and apologize for any
difficulties in understanding my posts.
Thank You,
Bill Pointon
On Friday, January 4, 2002, at 06:25 PM, Tony Duell wrote:
this is not a reply to any particular message but to the thread as a
whole -- you sound like a bunch of old-fashioned high school english
Nobody is expecting postings here to be written in what English teachers
would call good 'style'. I don't think anyone would care (for example)
about using the same word in 10 sentences in a row. Or not having
exactly
the right punctuation. Or anything like that.
teachers -- i mean come on people - form follows
function - or at least
it has for the last 30 years since marshal mcluhan - if you cant
understand someones post without consulting a thesaurus grammarian and
lexicon of the english language is it worth a diatribe -- i tend to
ignore capitalization and punctuation also - save for the generic
pause -- and if you cant decipher my messages is it perhaps because
of a
failure in the reader rather than the writer ? i really dont care ----
No it's not the fault od the reader IMHO....
Let me give you an analogy.
Here's a program that looks a little like C :
itn main (int argc, car **argv)
{
printf('hello world/n"]:
)
(yes I know there are mistakes in that, that is the point).
We all know what I intended to write there. But when I try to feed that
to a C compiler I get error messages. Is that the fault of the compiler?
No, there's a standard (ANSI C) for the language that I feed into the
compiler, and that program doesn't comply with it. However, if I got
errors
compiling this program :
#include<stdio.h>
int main (int argc, char **argv)
{
printf("hello world\n);
exit(0);
}
(which I think does comply with the ANSI C standard) then there is a
fault with the compiler.
It's the same on this list. We have a standard (gramatically 'correct'
English) for messages here. In general that standard is interpretted
fairly loosly, so we don't have a flamewar every time somebody makes a
typo, or when somebody whose first language is not English says
something
that an English-speaker wouldn't have said. However, when 2 people can't
understand each other, then we can use the 'English Standard' to
determine which one is in error. And if the writer is not using
punctuation, then I am afraid he's the one making the mistakes.
Another point. Many messages on this list ask for help in some way.
Which
is certainly one purpose of this list. It would seem to be reasonable,
however, to make it easy for said help to be give, by (for example)
clearly stating what you are asking about and what you are asking for.
If
the helper has to spend a lot of time deciphering the message then he's
likely not to bother.
There is no point in posting a message to a public mailing list unless
you want it to be understood by other people on that list. Which means
(in the case of this list) using understandable (not necessarily
perfect)
English.
-tony
1:23 p.m.
There's a point in there: form follows function. FUNCTION. I could *not*
understand the original message. Period.
Peace... Sridhar
On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, bill pointon wrote:
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 06:55:59 -0500
From: bill pointon <wpointon(a)earthlink.net>
Reply-To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: Trailing-edge compute farm seeks gainful employment
this is not a reply to any particular message but to the thread as a
whole -- you sound like a bunch of old-fashioned high school english
teachers -- i mean come on people - form follows function - or at least
it has for the last 30 years since marshal mcluhan - if you cant
understand someones post without consulting a thesaurus grammarian and
lexicon of the english language is it worth a diatribe -- i tend to
ignore capitalization and punctuation also - save for the generic
pause -- and if you cant decipher my messages is it perhaps because of a
failure in the reader rather than the writer ? i really dont care ----
and no offense meant where not taken voluntarily -- billp
ps -- i am not a warez dood - dont own a cell phone - and have never
instant messaged anyone
On Thursday, January 3, 2002, at 07:56 PM, Tony Duell wrote:
It's not that people here are snooty and require proper English to
post to
the list, it's just that run-on sentences with improper grammar and no
punctuation and capitalization is a real pain in the ass to read.
Well, personally I don't normally comment on spelling/ grammar/
punctuation. Particularly since English is not the first language of
some
people on this list.
I only comment when there's likely to be technical confusion (as with
the
'Centronics' connectors).
It also makes the reader assume (sometimes wrongly...) that the person
posting the message is a complete idiot, and advice, suggestions, and
answers will not be understood when given. This is a technical group,
and
Most of the regulars here will hopefully confirm that I am fairly 'free'
with techanical information. I don't mind digging out databooks or
schematics, etc. I don't mind doing a few back-of-the-envelope
calculations.
But if I would have to spend significant time deciphering your message
to
work out just what you were asking for, well, I am not likely to do
that.
Instead I'll just ignore it.
God knows my English isn't perfect......
: )
Nor is mine....
-tony
3 Jan
3 Jan
7:55 a.m.
Hi,
Golemancd(a)aol.com said:
sometimes i forget that computer folks r technical
people.
i come from the arts where the only thing that is needed is
understanding.
i am on stage sometimes and all the musicians do is
just nod or look at each other and everyone understands them.
Yes, but they try to use established conventions for note pitches,
time signatures, keys, chord structures and all the other syntax of
musical language...you'd have to in my band anyway ;-)
--
Cheers,
Stan Barr stanb(a)dial.pipex.com
The future was never like this!
8230
days inactive
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15 comments
13 participants
participants (13)
-
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
at258＠osfn.org -
doc＠mdrconsult.com -
edick＠idcomm.com -
foo＠siconic.com -
Golemancd＠aol.com -
jfoust＠threedee.com -
msell＠ontimesupport.com -
stanb＠dial.pipex.com -
vance＠ikickass.org -
wpointon＠earthlink.net -
ysgdhio＠yahoo.com -
zaft＠azstarnet.com