14 Oct
2004
14 Oct
'04
2:27 p.m.
Well, Kermit did the same thing as the two terminal programs.. Even
though they say they are vt100 compatible, they still spew garbage and
don't make the proper screen with vt50dpy... however vt50dpy
running on a serial port on the host system works fine.. I just want to
work at that terminal.
what's funny is the terminal emulators work fine with teco/vt. I
suppose vt50dpy makes more use
of the terminal control codes..
Well, Thanks for the suggestions so far. :^)
14 Oct
14 Oct
2:42 p.m.
At 07:27 PM 10/14/2004, you wrote:
Well, Kermit did the same thing as the two terminal
programs.. Even though
they say they are vt100 compatible, they still spew garbage and don't make
the proper screen with vt50dpy... however vt50dpy
running on a serial port on the host system works fine.. I just want to
work at that terminal.
what's funny is the terminal emulators work fine with teco/vt. I suppose
vt50dpy makes more use
of the terminal control codes..
Please pardon my ignorance here, I'm going out on a limb ...
vt50dpy as in VT50/VT52??
VT100's were ANSI, VT50/VT52 were DEC specific.
They used way different programming codes.
Ed K.
2:49 p.m.
On Oct 14, 2004, at 4:42 PM, Ed Kelleher wrote:
At 07:27 PM 10/14/2004, you wrote:
I suspect I misunderstood the manual when it said "Use VT50DPY for
vt50,vt52 and vt100 terminals."
The manual also mentions command options like /24 (use 24 lines instead
of 12) and /DCA (use cursor
control instead of spacing) but I am not sure how to supply those via
the run command as in
run $vt50dpy /24 /dca
like that? It complains that it can't find some file, where run
$vt50dpy starts up fine.
I suppose I need to make a CCL.. right? :^)
Well, Kermit did the same thing as the two
terminal programs.. Even
though they say they are vt100 compatible, they still spew garbage
and don't make the proper screen with vt50dpy... however vt50dpy
running on a serial port on the host system works fine.. I just want
to work at that terminal.
what's funny is the terminal emulators work fine with teco/vt. I
suppose vt50dpy makes more use
of the terminal control codes..
Please pardon my ignorance here, I'm going out on a limb ...
vt50dpy as in VT50/VT52??
VT100's were ANSI, VT50/VT52 were DEC specific.
They used way different programming codes.
Ed K.
3:07 p.m.
On Oct 14, 2004, at 5:49 PM, Ron Hudson wrote:
On Oct 14, 2004, at 4:42 PM, Ed Kelleher wrote:
VT100's (and later DEC terminals) have a VT52 mode. xterm doesn't AFAIK.
Mike
At 07:27 PM 10/14/2004, you wrote:
I suspect I misunderstood the manual when it said "Use VT50DPY for
vt50,vt52 and vt100 terminals." Well, Kermit did the same thing as the two
terminal programs.. Even
though they say they are vt100 compatible, they still spew garbage
and don't make the proper screen with vt50dpy... however vt50dpy
running on a serial port on the host system works fine.. I just want
to work at that terminal.
what's funny is the terminal emulators work fine with teco/vt. I
suppose vt50dpy makes more use
of the terminal control codes..
Please pardon my ignorance here, I'm going out on a limb ...
vt50dpy as in VT50/VT52??
VT100's were ANSI, VT50/VT52 were DEC specific.
They used way different programming codes.
3:12 p.m.
At 07:49 PM 10/14/2004, you wrote:
Ohhhhh RSTS!
Light bulb goes off in head - light leaks out nose and ears from empty skull.
Thought that sounded familiar, VT50DPY was the continuously updating SYSTAT
thing?
The "bring the system to it's knees" program (along with Plane)?
Real VT100's had a hardware VT52 emulation mode, or you could NOT use DCA
and it should run on a VT100.
But, a 7 character program name?? Thought RSTS and the others were 6.3?
Gotta get RSTS system going here.
As soon as I get my SCSI drives going: 1 for RT11, 1 for RSX11M, 1 for RSTS,
as soon as I get my UC08 going,
as soon as I .... get my teletype <he he>
:-)
Ed K.
Please pardon
my ignorance here, I'm going out on a limb ...
vt50dpy as in VT50/VT52??
VT100's were ANSI, VT50/VT52 were DEC specific.
They used way different programming codes.
I suspect I misunderstood the manual when it said "Use VT50DPY for
vt50,vt52 and vt100 terminals."
The manual also mentions command options like /24 (use 24 lines instead of
12) and /DCA (use cursor
control instead of spacing) but I am not sure how to supply those via the
run command as in
run $vt50dpy /24 /dca
like that? It complains that it can't find some file, where run $vt50dpy
starts up fine.
I suppose I need to make a CCL.. right? :^)
5:54 p.m.
On Oct 14, 2004, at 5:12 PM, Ed Kelleher wrote:
At 07:49 PM 10/14/2004, you wrote:
Ohhhhh RSTS!
Light bulb goes off in head - light leaks out nose and ears from empty
skull.
Thought that sounded familiar, VT50DPY was the continuously updating
SYSTAT thing?
The "bring the system to it's knees" program (along with Plane)?
Plane?
What is this, Plane?
PLANE? ooh nooo a flight simulator on a teletype :^)
(frame rate? We don't need no steenking frame rate)
Please
pardon my ignorance here, I'm going out on a limb ...
vt50dpy as in VT50/VT52??
VT100's were ANSI, VT50/VT52 were DEC specific.
They used way different programming codes.
I suspect I misunderstood the manual when it said "Use VT50DPY for
vt50,vt52 and vt100 terminals."
The manual also mentions command options like /24 (use 24 lines
instead of 12) and /DCA (use cursor
control instead of spacing) but I am not sure how to supply those via
the run command as in
run $vt50dpy /24 /dca
like that? It complains that it can't find some file, where run
$vt50dpy starts up fine.
I suppose I need to make a CCL.. right? :^) Real VT100's had a hardware VT52 emulation mode,
or you could NOT use
DCA and it should run on a VT100.
Hmm play with kermit summore and get it to be a vt52.
But, a 7 character program name?? Thought RSTS and
the others were
6.3?
Gotta get RSTS system going here.
As soon as I get my SCSI drives going: 1 for RT11, 1 for RSX11M, 1 for
RSTS,
as soon as I get my UC08 going,
as soon as I .... get my teletype <he he>
:-)
Ed K.
15 Oct
15 Oct
5:01 a.m.
>>>> "Ed" == Ed Kelleher
<Pres(a)macro-inc.com> writes:
Ed> At 07:49 PM 10/14/2004, you wrote:
>> Please pardon my ignorance here, I'm going
out on a limb ...
>>
>> vt50dpy as in VT50/VT52?? VT100's were ANSI, VT50/VT52 were DEC
>> specific. They used way different programming codes.
> I suspect I misunderstood the manual when it said "Use VT50DPY for
> vt50,vt52 and vt100 terminals."
>
> The manual also mentions command options like /24 (use 24 lines
> instead of 12) and /DCA (use cursor control instead of spacing)
> but I am not sure how to supply those via the run command as in
> run $vt50dpy /24 /dca
>
> like that? It complains that it can't find some file, where run
> $vt50dpy starts up fine.
>
> I suppose I need to make a CCL.. right? :^)
Ed> Ohhhhh RSTS! Light bulb goes off in head - light leaks out nose
Ed> and ears from empty skull.
Ed> Thought that sounded familiar, VT50DPY was the continuously
Ed> updating SYSTAT thing? The "bring the system to it's knees"
Ed> program (along with Plane)? Real VT100's had a hardware VT52
Ed> emulation mode, or you could NOT use DCA and it should run on a
Ed> VT100.
Ed> But, a 7 character program name?? Thought RSTS and the others
Ed> were 6.3?
The name was VT50PY, or DISPLY, or something like that.
In V10.1, that program would do ANSI escape sequences if the terminal
appeared to be a VT100 or above (i.e., a scope with XON support and no
fill). But, judging by the sources, that wasn't available before
V10.1. So you can change the code :-) or you can track down an xterm
with VT52 escape support, or you could add it to xterm (VT52 escapes
are pretty simple...)
paul
5:33 a.m.
So you can change the code :-) or you can track down
an xterm with
VT52 escape support, or you could add it to xterm (VT52 escapes are
pretty simple...)
If people care, I could add VT52 emulation to mterm easily enough.
(mterm is a terminal emulator I wrote which has fairly good separation
between the terminal-emulator engine and the rest, such as the display
and OS interface code.)
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7:14 a.m.
Ron Hudson wrote:
I suspect I misunderstood the manual when it said "Use VT50DPY for
vt50,vt52 and vt100 terminals."
The manual also mentions command options like /24 (use 24 lines
instead of 12) and /DCA (use cursor
control instead of spacing) but I am not sure how to supply those via
the run command as in
run $vt50dpy /24 /dca
$ run $vt50dpy
Interval: 30/dca/24
like that? It complains that it can't find some file, where run
$vt50dpy starts up fine.
I suppose I need to make a CCL.. right? :^)
8:32 a.m.
On Oct 15, 2004, at 9:14 AM, Kevin Handy wrote:
Ron Hudson wrote:
oooh thanks - now my terminal shows much more... hang on lemme try the
os/x with that..
nope still misses the control codes... could it be that it only works
on directly connected
terminal - telnet does somthing wierd before it gets to iTerm or
Terminal (or telnet in the windows
box)
oh Well...
I suspect I misunderstood the manual when it said "Use VT50DPY for
vt50,vt52 and vt100 terminals."
The manual also mentions command options like /24 (use 24 lines
instead of 12) and /DCA (use cursor
control instead of spacing) but I am not sure how to supply those via
the run command as in
run $vt50dpy /24 /dca
$ run $vt50dpy
Interval: 30/dca/24
like that? It complains that it can't find some file, where run
$vt50dpy starts up fine.
I suppose I need to make a CCL.. right? :^)
14 Oct
14 Oct
2:52 p.m.
what's funny is the terminal emulators work fine
with teco/vt. I
suppose vt50dpy makes more use of the terminal control codes.
Judging by the name of the program... what you really want is a VT50
emulator? IIRC VT50 is a subset of VT52.
though they say they are vt100 compatible, they still
spew garbage
A real VT100 does a good job of emulating a VT52. Kermit does a pretty
good job too, but you may have to specifically set it to VT52 mode.
Tm.
17 Oct
17 Oct
12:23 p.m.
>>>> "Tim" == Tim Shoppa
<shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com> writes:
> what's funny is the terminal emulators work
fine with teco/vt. I
> suppose vt50dpy makes more use of the terminal control codes.
Tim> Judging by the name of the program... what you really want is a
Tim> VT50 emulator? IIRC VT50 is a subset of VT52.
That's how it started out, but no, you want a VT52 emulation. The
program works with either; if you tell it "24 lines" it assumes a
VT52.
paul
15 Oct
15 Oct
4:52 a.m.
>>>> "Ron" == Ron Hudson
<ron.hudson(a)sbcglobal.net> writes:
Ron> Well, Kermit did the same thing as the two terminal
Ron> programs.. Even though they say they are vt100 compatible, they
Ron> still spew garbage and don't make the proper screen with
Ron> vt50dpy... however vt50dpy running on a serial port on the host
Ron> system works fine.. I just want to work at that terminal.
Ron> what's funny is the terminal emulators work fine with teco/vt. I
Ron> suppose vt50dpy makes more use of the terminal control codes..
Chances are that VT50DPY (given its name) uses VT52 escape sequence,
not ANSI escape sequences. It seems likely that a lot of terminal
emulators do ANSI pretty well, but VT52 not well at all.
Check if your VT50DPY has a switch that asks for ANSI escape
sequences; that may help.
paul
7:08 a.m.
Rumor has it that Paul Koning may have mentioned these words:
Why not just hook up your handy-dandy ever-trusty Tandy Model 100/102 or
200 laptop? IIRC, It used VT52 as the serial protocol for it's screen...
;-) You do have one, right? ;^>
Just set the screen parameters to 40x8 or 40x16 respectively, and 600 or
1200 bps (again, respectively; scrolling was a bear on the Tandys and could
cause lost characters -- altho there are patches available on
www.club100.org that could improve the problem and attain you 9600bps,
IIRC. The Tandy 200 was better than the 100/102.) and hop into TELCOM.
Might need a little tweaking, but it should work...
HTH,
Roger "Merch" Merchberger
--
Roger "Merch" Merchberger | "Bugs of a feather flock together."
sysadmin, Iceberg Computers | Russell Nelson
zmerch(a)30below.com |
>>>> "Ron" == Ron Hudson <ron.hudson(a)sbcglobal.net> writes:
Ron> Well, Kermit did the same thing as the two terminal
Ron> programs.. Even though they say they are vt100 compatible, they
Ron> still spew garbage and don't make the proper screen with
Ron> vt50dpy... however vt50dpy running on a serial port on the host
Ron> system works fine.. I just want to work at that terminal.
Ron> what's funny is the terminal emulators work fine with teco/vt. I
Ron> suppose vt50dpy makes more use of the terminal control codes..
Chances are that VT50DPY (given its name) uses VT52 escape sequence,
not ANSI escape sequences. It seems likely that a lot of terminal
emulators do ANSI pretty well, but VT52 not well at all. 
7:13 a.m.
On Fri, 15 Oct 2004, Roger Merchberger wrote:
Why not just hook up your handy-dandy ever-trusty
Tandy Model 100/102 or
200 laptop? IIRC, It used VT52 as the serial protocol for it's screen...
;-) You do have one, right? ;^>
VT52 is not a serial protocol. It is a (DEC)
standard for doing
screen and attribute control, akin to VT100, VT200, ANSI et al.
But, yes, most DOS-based term programs (I use my own, but Kermit,
Telix et al come to mind) did a good VT5x emulation, so using an
old lappy sounds smart!
--f
7:37 a.m.
Rumor has it that Fred N. van Kempen may have mentioned these words:
On Fri, 15 Oct 2004, Roger Merchberger wrote:
> Why not just hook up your handy-dandy ever-trusty Tandy Model 100/102 or
> 200 laptop? IIRC, It used VT52 as the serial protocol for it's screen...
> ;-) You do have one, right? ;^>
VT52 is not a serial protocol. It is a (DEC) standard
for doing
screen and attribute control, akin to VT100, VT200, ANSI et al.
I know. Erm... maybe I mistyped unclearly-like. Lemme say it this way: The
screens in the Tandy 100/102/200 are serial. As such, it needed a way to
perform screen and attribute control. They used VT52 as the standard to
perform such control. So, anything that sends it VT52 codes down the RS232
into the TELCOM program are just shipped directly to the screen control
program, and they just work.
If that's still unclear, you'll have to wait 5 or 6 hours until it's time
(on my side of the planet, anyway...) to have a couple of beers at such
time my thinking processes will improve immensely. ;^>
One caveat: I _think_ the VT52 command set it has is only a subset of the
entire VT52 standard; how complete the subset is I don't know. If an
application needed support for a (possibly) unsupported VT52 command, it
may not function correctly.
But, yes, most DOS-based term programs (I use my own,
but Kermit,
Telix et al come to mind) did a good VT5x emulation, so using an
old lappy sounds smart!
So you see - I'm not as dumb as I look anyway! ;-)
Laterz,
Roger "Merch" Merchberger
--
Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers
zmerch(a)30below.com
What do you do when Life gives you lemons,
and you don't *like* lemonade?????????????
8:20 a.m.
On Oct 15, 2004, at 9:08 AM, Roger Merchberger wrote:
Why not just hook up your handy-dandy ever-trusty
Tandy Model 100/102
or 200 laptop? IIRC, It used VT52 as the serial protocol for it's
screen... ;-) You do have one, right? ;^>
Actually I do.. a model 102 - I don't know how vt50dp could fit
everything on such a small screen.
I wonder if my 102 is up to simulating a PDP11 ;^) Would you believe a
pdp-8?
7219
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16 comments
9 participants
participants (9)
-
kth＠srv.net -
mcesari＠comcast.net -
mouse＠Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA -
pkoning＠equallogic.com -
Pres＠macro-inc.com -
ron.hudson＠sbcglobal.net -
shoppa＠trailing-edge.com -
waltje＠pdp11.nl -
zmerch＠30below.com