24 Jun
2015
24 Jun
'15
8:36 a.m.
Back in the late '70s, I played a game called -0empire- on a PLATO
system hosted, IIRC, at UIUC. Reading
http://www.daleske.com/plato/empire.php, the best match to my memory is
Empire IV (IIRC, the 0 prefix indicates that the lesson was installed
system-wide, rather than being a relatively meaningless part of the
name), and http://www.daleske.com/plato/empire-control.php says, inter
alia, "You are welcome to look at the source code under Open Source
Commons.".
However, it appears my search-fu is too weak to _find_ that source
code. So my question for the collective wisdom here is, anyone know
where I might be able to find it?
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24 Jun
24 Jun
9 a.m.
What team were you on? Wouldn?t want the Kaz, Roms or Bugs to get this kind of
information..
<<acutally I don?t know either.. sorry>>
Uncle Feddie
jsw at ieee.org
On Jun 24, 2015, at 7:36 AM, Mouse <mouse at
Rodents-Montreal.ORG> wrote:
Back in the late '70s, I played a game called -0empire- on a PLATO
system hosted, IIRC, at UIUC. Reading
http://www.daleske.com/plato/empire.php, the best match to my memory is
Empire IV (IIRC, the 0 prefix indicates that the lesson was installed
system-wide, rather than being a relatively meaningless part of the
name), and http://www.daleske.com/plato/empire-control.php says, inter
alia, "You are welcome to look at the source code under Open Source
Commons.".
However, it appears my search-fu is too weak to _find_ that source
code. So my question for the collective wisdom here is, anyone know
where I might be able to find it?
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10:19 a.m.
What team were you on? Wouldn?t want the Kaz, Roms or
Bugs to get
this kind of information..
(Actually, I most often played R.)
<<acutally I don?t know either.. sorry>>
I built an attempt to recreate it based on decade-old memories sometime
in the late '80s, which I recently dusted off (for those with git and
curiosity, git://git.rodents-montreal.org/Mouse/games/0empire should be
clonable). Looking at the screenshots, though, it's interesting how
much I'd obviously forgotten, and the text there makes it clear there's
also a lot more I never knew.
The main reason I'm interested in the source to Empire is to make my
recreation of it behave more like the original. I'm not trying for a
total clone - if that's what I were after I'd be looking for a PLATO
simulator to run the original on - but something that feels not too
unlike it while still being recognizably a little more modern (for
example, using finer resolution on the display). This is obviously a
balancing act....
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11:24 a.m.
On Jun 24, 2015, at 10:19 AM, Mouse <mouse at
Rodents-Montreal.ORG> wrote:
The 0 prefix in the lesson name indicates a ?published lesson? ? which means a frozen copy
of the original made by CDC and distributed as part of the PLATO distribution. The
original name was ?empire? and it became famous under that name at its original home,
University of Illinois PLATO.
As for PLATO simulation, there is one, which John mentions (cyber1). That consists of the
CDC 6000 emulator ?DtCyber? by Tom Hunter, plus a copy of PLATO authorized by its current
owners and taken from the last known production PLATO system, plus some additional lessons
(programs) recovered from various archives. It connects to terminals ? either real PLATO
terminals or an emulation program ?pterm? over TCP connections. Access is available to
all, on request, see the website cyber1.org for details.
That said, the copies of empire on that system (there?s a 0empire and an empire) are not
set for open source ?open inspect? access. I had not seen John?s comment about open
source. Possibly he intended to make the sources visible at some other location. If he
wants the copy on cyber1 to be open-inspect, that?s easy to do but it would require a
specific note from him to the cyber1 admins (of which I?m one) to authorize the change.
paul
What team were you on? Wouldn?t want the Kaz,
Roms or Bugs to get
this kind of information..
(Actually, I most often played R.)
<<acutally I don?t know either..
sorry>>
I built an attempt to recreate it based on decade-old memories sometime
in the late '80s, which I recently dusted off (for those with git and
curiosity, git://git.rodents-montreal.org/Mouse/games/0empire should be
clonable). Looking at the screenshots, though, it's interesting how
much I'd obviously forgotten, and the text there makes it clear there's
also a lot more I never knew.
The main reason I'm interested in the source to Empire is to make my
recreation of it behave more like the original. I'm not trying for a
total clone - if that's what I were after I'd be looking for a PLATO
simulator to run the original on - but something that feels not too
unlike it while still being recognizably a little more modern (for
example, using finer resolution on the display). This is obviously a
balancing act?.
12:15 p.m.
On Jun 24, 2015, at 10:24 AM, Paul Koning <paulkoning at comcast.net> wrote:
The 0 prefix in the lesson name indicates a ?published lesson? ? which means a frozen
copy of the original made by CDC and distributed as part of the PLATO distribution. The
original name was ?empire? and it became famous under that name at its original home,
University of Illinois PLATO.
As for PLATO simulation, there is one, which John mentions (cyber1). That consists of
the CDC 6000 emulator ?DtCyber? by Tom Hunter, plus a copy of PLATO authorized by its
current owners and taken from the last known production PLATO system, plus some additional
lessons (programs) recovered from various archives. It connects to terminals ? either
real PLATO terminals or an emulation program ?pterm? over TCP connections. Access is
available to all, on request, see the website cyber1.org for details.
That said, the copies of empire on that system (there?s a 0empire and an empire) are not
set for open source ?open inspect? access. I had not seen John?s comment about open
source. Possibly he intended to make the sources visible at some other location. If he
wants the copy on cyber1 to be open-inspect, that?s easy to do but it would require a
specific note from him to the cyber1 admins (of which I?m one) to authorize the change.
paul
I?m still looking for a Plato IV terminal keyboard. Both the layout and tactile feel are
truly part of the ?Empire? experience.
Jerry
12:40 p.m.
On Jun 24, 2015, at 12:15 PM, Jerry Weiss <jsw at
ieee.org> wrote:
...
I?m still looking for a Plato IV terminal keyboard. Both the layout and tactile feel
are truly part of the ?Empire? experience.
Aaron Woolfson (at Telswitch) has done that. Proper copies, with USB interface but using
the same switches (they still exist) and the correct keycaps. His initial run sold out;
I?m not sure if a new one has been created.
The original one triggers an OSX bug so you can?t use it on a Mac, but other operating
systems handle it fine.
paul
1:22 p.m.
The 0 prefix in the lesson name indicates a ?published
lesson? ? which means$
Ah! Thank you. I knew it had some semantic significance but I didn't
really know what. I'm quite sure the version I played was called
0empire and thus would have been such a frozen version. (I wonder if
either of the lessons I wrote still exist anywhere....)
As for PLATO simulation, there is one, which John
mentions (cyber1). That $
I might be tempted, except that it requires agreeing to California
legal jurisdiction, which as someone outside the USA I would have to be
completely rocks-for-brains to do - and you say it wouldn't get me
access to the code anyway. (Plus, it looks as though getting pterm to
build for me would involve quite a lot of wading in with a machete.
_Playing_ Empire tempts me, but not nearly enough to override the legal
jurisdiction issue.)
That said, the copies of empire on that system
(there?s a 0empire and an emp$
Well, if anyone has enough access to John Daleske to find out what the
current status of the code is, and, if it _is_ available, where it's
available from, I'd be most interested.
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jsw＠ieee.org -
mouse＠Rodents-Montreal.ORG -
paulkoning＠comcast.net