18 Apr
2005
18 Apr
'05
9:36 a.m.
--- "Joe R." <rigdonj at cfl.rr.com> wrote:
When you boot the 64000 off the first two diskettes in
the operating system set, it checks the HP-IB for any
devices attached. If there are no devices attached,
you get instructions displayed that state that AMIGO
devices - and it names the 9134A - need to be set as
address 0. With the drive attached at 0 , it reports
the 64000 itself, and an unrecognized device at
address 0.
- HP 9134A: The
unit is appears on the HPIB bus but
doesn't identify itself correctly. From the HP64000
side I get a 'NO DISC' error when I try to format
it.
I don't know about the 64000 but the HP9000 200s
and 300s display a list
of drives during bootup. Does the 64000 do that and
does it show the drive? On a 200 or 300 if you press any key druing boot it
will stop the system
from booting an OS but it will go through the search
for drives and display
a list of drives and OSs.
I have a untried 9000/300 unit that I picked up last
year. Perhaps I could try using that to test with.
Will a 9000/300 try to boot without a keyboard
attached ? Of course it would hard to press a key to
stop the boot sequence without having a keyboard
attached <g>.
Is this one of the old wide biege units or one of
the newer square white
ones? >
It's the big beige unit. There's no fault light on it,
just the power light and the disk activity light.
Just to see what would happen, I hooked it up to an
HP-1631 and went through the Storage menu to see what
it detected on the bus. I can see the activity light
coming on when the 1631 tries to access the unit.
I have a couple of those cards and I'm pretty
sure that I have the
manual and software SOMEWHERE but I have no idea if
I can find it. If you
ind them from another source, let me know.
The Zia Tech unit is less of a card and more of a
programmer's panel sort of device. It has a couple of
rows of switches and lights that correspond to the
data lines and some of the HP-IB commands. It doesn't
seem to have any address setting capability on the
outside of the box. Maybe there's a DIP switch inside
or something. Looks fun though.
Regards,
Dave
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less.
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
18 Apr
18 Apr
1:12 p.m.
At 06:36 AM 4/18/05 -0700, you wrote:
Yes IIRC but without a keyboard you can't pause the boot process so if
the drive has a bootable OS it will boot to the first OS that it finds. If
it doesn't find an OS it will stop with a list of the attached drives
displayed. Personally I always check any drives that I get on several
systems to see if they have a useable OS. I'd hate to lose an OS because I
reformatted the drive without seeing if it had an OS that I could use for
another system.
Of course it would hard to press a key to
--- "Joe R." <rigdonj at cfl.rr.com> wrote:
When you boot the 64000 off the first two diskettes in
the operating system set, it checks the HP-IB for any
devices attached. If there are no devices attached,
you get instructions displayed that state that AMIGO
devices - and it names the 9134A - need to be set as
address 0. With the drive attached at 0 , it reports
the 64000 itself, and an unrecognized device at
address 0.
The Amigo protocall is for floppy disk drives! It must expect one of the
9134s with the option (option 100?) to make it look like four floppy diks
drives (usually HP 9895s). If it wants the Amigo protocall try hanging a HP
9121 drive on it. They're relatively common and usually cheap since they're
only SS drives.
- HP
9134A: The unit is appears on the HPIB bus but
doesn't identify itself correctly. From the HP64000
side I get a 'NO DISC' error when I try to format
it.
I don't know about the 64000 but the HP9000 200s
and 300s display a list
of drives during bootup. Does the 64000 do that and
does it show the drive? On a 200 or 300 if you press any key druing boot
it
will stop the system
from booting an OS but it will go through the search
for drives and display
a list of drives and OSs.
I have a untried 9000/300 unit that I picked up last
year. Perhaps I could try using that to test with.
Will a 9000/300 try to boot without a keyboard
attached ? stop the boot sequence without having a keyboard
attached <g>.
That sounds more like the HP HP-IB bus analyzer. Does the panel look
like either one of these?
<http://search.ebay.com/HP-analyzer-bus_W0QQsofocusZbsQQsbrftogZ1QQsojsZ1QQf
romZR10QQsacatZ-1QQcatrefZC6QQsargnZ-1QQsaslcZ2QQsadisZ200QQfposZ32765QQga10
244Z10425QQftrtZ1QQftrvZ1QQfsopZ1QQfsooZ1QQcoactionZcompareQQcopagenumZ1QQco
entrypageZsearch>
I have a couple of non-HP ones but they all look VERY similar and I'm
sure that they all opeate the same. I do have the manual for the HP one
but IIRC it really didn't give much in the way of instructions. I think
they assume that the user already knows a lot about how HP-IB works.
It has a couple of
Is this one of the old wide biege units or one
of
the newer square white
ones? >
It's the big beige unit. There's no fault light on it,
just the power light and the disk activity light.
Just to see what would happen, I hooked it up to an
HP-1631 and went through the Storage menu to see what
it detected on the bus. I can see the activity light
coming on when the 1631 tries to access the unit.
I have a couple of those cards and I'm
pretty
sure that I have the
manual and software SOMEWHERE but I have no idea if
I can find it. If you
ind them from another source, let me know.
The Zia Tech unit is less of a card and more of a
programmer's panel sort of device. rows of switches and lights that correspond to the
data lines and some of the HP-IB commands. It doesn't
seem to have any address setting capability on the
outside of the box. Maybe there's a DIP switch inside
or something. Looks fun though.
It wouldn't have an address switch since it merely monitors the bus.
Yeah, it sounds like you have something equivilent to the HP analyzer.
Joe
Regards,
Dave
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less.
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
3:27 p.m.
--- "Joe R." <rigdonj at cfl.rr.com> wrote:
9134s with the option (option 100?) to make it look
like four floppy diks
drives (usually HP 9895s
Well - the unit has two sets of address switches on
the back, one labeled fixed disc address and one
labeled flexible disc address. Not that there's a
flexible drive installed though. Does that flexible
disc address come in to play if the unit is configured
as 4 x 1.15MB drives ? Perhaps I need to set that
address instead.
That sounds more like the HP HP-IB bus analyzer.
Does the panel look
like either one of these?
Hmmm- the eBay ones look like real test equipment.
They have real displays and things. No, the one I got
looks like two rows each of 8 switches and LEDs
stuffed into a plastic project box with some dry print
lettering on the front. Nothing near as nice as the
ones on eBay. But for $2 it will do a turn. If I had a
digital camera I'd put up a picture somewhere. Must
look into that.
Regards,
Dave
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
6:23 p.m.
At 12:27 PM 4/18/05 -0700, you wrote:
Yes, I'd like to see it. I wonder if it might be someone's homemade bus
analyzer or a prototype.
Joe
--- "Joe R." <rigdonj at cfl.rr.com>
wrote:
The address settings shouldn't make any difference*. The computer should
find the drive and OS no matter where it's located. I don't think the FD
address switchs do anything on your unit. In fact, I'm surprised that
they're even there. BTW if your drive is configured as four floppy drives
then it should be valuable and VERY desirable to the HP collectors. It's
the only drive that can be used on things like the HP-85 without a special
ROM. In fact, it may require the special ROM and STILL be the only HD that
will work on the 85 and similar systems. Sorry, but I don't remember the
exact details but I looked for one of those drives for years without success.
*Assuming nothing else is already using that device number but I doubt
it. It's probably the only thing that you have plugged into the HP-IB.
9134s with the option (option 100?) to make it
look
like four floppy diks
drives (usually HP 9895s
Well - the unit has two sets of address switches on
the back, one labeled fixed disc address and one
labeled flexible disc address. Not that there's a
flexible drive installed though. Does that flexible
disc address come in to play if the unit is configured
as 4 x 1.15MB drives ? Perhaps I need to set that
address instead. That sounds more like the HP HP-IB bus
analyzer.
Does the panel look
like either one of these?
Hmmm- the eBay ones look like real test equipment.
They have real displays and things. No, the one I got
looks like two rows each of 8 switches and LEDs
stuffed into a plastic project box with some dry print
lettering on the front. Nothing near as nice as the
ones on eBay. But for $2 it will do a turn. If I had a
digital camera I'd put up a picture somewhere. Must
look into that.
Regards,
Dave
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
7:09 p.m.
On 18 Apr 2005 at 12:27, David Comley wrote:
Does that flexible disc address come in to play if the
unit is
configured as 4 x 1.15MB drives ? Perhaps I need to set that address
instead.
The 9133 (hard + 3.5" floppy), 9134 (hard only), and 9135 (hard + 5.25"
floppy) used the same controller, so the floppy address switches on the
9134 don't do anything. They're active on the other two models.
Although you may already know it, it's probably worth mentioning that the
64000 system hard disc must be at address 0, a system line printer must be
at address 1, stations must be at 2-7, and one of the stations (or the only
one) must have the rear-panel master/slave switches set to "master,"
according to the 64000 configuration guide.
-- Dave
19 Apr
19 Apr
7:40 a.m.
At 07:09 PM 4/18/05 -0400, you wrote:
On 18 Apr 2005 at 12:27, David Comley wrote:
Ahh! That's something that I didn't know. On the 9000 200 and 300s they
can use any unassigned address.
Joe
Does that flexible disc address come in to play
if the unit is
configured as 4 x 1.15MB drives ? Perhaps I need to set that address
instead.
The 9133 (hard + 3.5" floppy), 9134 (hard only), and 9135 (hard + 5.25"
floppy) used the same controller, so the floppy address switches on the
9134 don't do anything. They're active on the other two models.
Although you may already know it, it's probably worth mentioning that the
64000 system hard disc must be at address 0, a system line printer must be
at address 1, stations must be at 2-7, and one of the stations (or the only
one) must have the rear-panel master/slave switches set to "master,"
according to the 64000 configuration guide.
-- Dave
6:31 p.m.
No it's not EXCLUSIVELY for the floppy drives but that's what it was
desinged for. If you'd read on you'd have seen that I explained that it was
used in a few special optioned hard drives so that they would look like
multiple floppy drives. More to the point, it IS a older protocall than
SS-80 and CS-80 and a machine that expects an Amigo drive will not be able
to use the later SS-80 and CS-80 drives. That's why I suggested that he try
and find a HP 9121 drive. It's a widely available modern 3.5" floppy drive
but still uses the Amigo protocall. Other computers that only used the
Amigo protocall include the HP-83/85/86/87 series and the HP-125 and HP-120
CPM systems. I'm sure there are others but I'm only familar with HP's small
systems.
Joe
At 12:28 PM 4/18/05 -0700, you wrote:
Joe wrote:
The Amigo protocall is for floppy disk drives!
I don't think that it was exclusively for floppy drive, as I think the
hard drive in the HP 300 used Amigo protocol as well. I'm not sure
whether any others did.
Eric
6:51 p.m.
New subject: Amigo computer, Amigo disk protocol (was Re: Questions - Universe/68, HP-9134A, VT420 composite video)
Joe wrote:
The Amigo protocall is for floppy disk drives!
I wrote:
I don't think that it was exclusively for floppy
drive,
Joe wrote:
No it's not EXCLUSIVELY for the floppy drives but
that's what it was
desinged for.
I don't think so. It was designed for the Amigo computer, AKA HP-300,
which is why it's called Amigo protocol.
IIRC, the HP-300 didn't even *have* floppy drives. It had an internal
hard drive, and I think it was possible to add more externally.
The Computer History Museum recently got an Amigo, and Ken Sumrall,
Stan Sieler, and I would like to run it someday. Anybody got docs
(beyond what's already on bitsavers) or software?
Eric
7:19 p.m.
New subject: Amigo computer, Amigo disk protocol (was Re: Questions - Universe/68, HP-9134A, VT420 composite video)
On 18 Apr 2005 at 15:51, Eric Smith wrote:
It was designed for the Amigo computer, AKA HP-300,
which is why it's
called Amigo protocol.
The HP 3000 Series 33 also used the Amigo protocol.
The Computer History Museum recently got an Amigo, and
Ken Sumrall,
Stan Sieler, and I would like to run it someday. Anybody got docs
(beyond what's already on bitsavers) or software?
I have the HP Journals that described the 300:
June 1979
A Business Computer for the 1980s
The Integrated Display System and Terminal Access Method
Reducing the Cost of Program Development
Managing Data: HP 300 Files and Data Bases
An Easy-to-Use Report Generation Language
HP 300 Business BASIC
Innovative Package Design Enhances HP 300 Effectiveness
July 1979
Cost-Effective Hardware for a Compact Integrated Business Computer
A Computer Input/Output System Based on the HP Interface Bus
A Small, Low-Cost 12-Megabyte Fixed Disc Drive
An Innovative Programming and Operating Console
AMIGO/300: A Friendly Operating System
Configuring and Launching the AMIGO/300 System
A Multiple-Output Switching Power Supply for Computer Applications
Don't know how much help they'd be, though.
-- Dave
19 Apr
19 Apr
7:35 a.m.
New subject: Amigo computer, Amigo disk protocol (was Re: Questions - Universe/68, HP-9134A, VT420 composite video)
At 03:51 PM 4/18/05 -0700, Eric wrote:
Joe wrote:
That's news to me! The docs that I have all indicate that it was written
for the floppy drives.
Joe
The Amigo protocall is for floppy disk drives!
I wrote:
I don't think that it was exclusively for
floppy drive,
Joe wrote:
No it's not EXCLUSIVELY for the floppy
drives but that's what it was
desinged for.
I don't think so. It was designed for the Amigo computer, AKA HP-300,
which is why it's called Amigo protocol. 
4:30 p.m.
New subject: Amigo computer, Amigo disk protocol (was Re: Questions -Universe/68, HP-9134A, VT420 composite video)
I don't
think so. It was designed for the Amigo computer, AKA HP-300,
which is why it's called Amigo protocol.
That's news to me! The docs that I have all indicate that it was written
for the floppy drives.
Joe 
21 Apr
21 Apr
8:09 p.m.
New subject: Amigo computer, Amigo disk protocol (was Re: Questions - Universe/68, HP-9134A, VT420 composite video)
Re:
[HP 300]
IIRC, the only HP 300 I ever used (at HP Cupertino, in 1979)
had an 8" floppy drive (or two?) and no hard drive ... but
it's been a long time :)
--
Stan Sieler
sieler at allegro.com
www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html
No it's
not EXCLUSIVELY for the floppy drives but that's what it was
desinged for.
IIRC, the HP-300 didn't even *have* floppy drives. It had an internal
hard drive, and I think it was possible to add more externally.
18 Apr
18 Apr
2:03 p.m.
The Zia Tech unit is less of a card and more of a
programmer's panel sort of device. It has a couple of
rows of switches and lights that correspond to the
data lines and some of the HP-IB commands. It doesn't
seem to have any address setting capability on the
outside of the box. Maybe there's a DIP switch inside
or something. Looks fun though.
Regards,
Dave
I'm not familiar with the ZiaTech analyzer but assume it is similar in
function the HP 59401A that I use. The HP 59401A is a very nice device.
Hightly recommended for any HPIB troubleshooting. I ocasionally see them
on eBay in the $35 - $50 range.
The analyzer is a "dumb" device. It can monitor and manipulate the BUS
it cannot automatically generate or respond to the signals. It listens
to everything, it responds to nothing (without operator intervention).
Since the analyzer sees all the data, it doesn't need it's own HPIB
address (no switches).
The analyzer relys on the operator to enter the correct control and data
sequences. By toggling in the proper sequences, the operator can emulate
virtually any device that can be attached to the bus. A few years ago, I
formatted a CS80 disk, and wrote the entire boot sector using just an
analyzer. Later, I was able to boot a HP2100 off the disk!
NOTE: The control sequences for CS80 drives are fairly complex so, I'd
recommend starting with a simpler device. If you have a HPIB multimeter
or printer; you can attach them directly to the analyzer, without a host
computer, and experiment with controlling them. Once you undersand the
HPIB handshaking, you can try a more complicated device like the HP9134.
Do you have any other HPIB devices? If so, I'll help you understand how
to talk to them before tackling the disk drive.
See ya, SteveRob
7058
days inactive
7062
days old
13 comments
6 participants
participants (6)
-
david_comley＠yahoo.com -
eric＠brouhaha.com -
jdbryan＠acm.org -
rigdonj＠cfl.rr.com -
sieler＠allegro.com -
steerex＠mindspring.com