Fortunately in the UK there are no requirements yet (afaik) for * and # on the public networks. On the private exchange at work, 11=*, 12=#, 13=** and 14=##, at the beginnings of numbers only, but I don't know whether it still works. BTW, in the UK # is _never_ called "pound". "Hash" is the most usual name, followed by "gate" and "hatch". "Pound" means a script L with a couple of horizontal bars through it :-) That's what I was afraid of. Although a neater hack still would be a modified dial that did 11 pulses for * and 12 for #. Mechanically possible, but I wouldn't want to try and modify the old dial. There is a blanked-off hole in most type 746 phones that can accommodate 1 or 2 buttons, and I was thinking of putting # and * there, but this is more usually used for a "recall" button. Incidentally, does anyone know why "timed break" recall buttons are replacing local earth ones? And how long is the break? Sam, you should be ashamed of yourself. The object of the exercise was not to get a DTMF phone, but to get one with a _rotary dial_. I already have a DTMF phone, and I am interested in thes project _purely_ for hack value. Slightly less far off topic, does anyone know the reason for the divergence in layout between phone keypads and computer ones, i.e. 123 789 456 vs. 456 ? 789 123 0 0 Which came first? Philip.