4 Sep
2011
4 Sep
'11
7:16 p.m.
I have a pair of Olivetti Underwood 288s (10-key 7 digit input, 8 digit
output adding machines), one of which I got from list member Patrick
Finnegan a couple of years ago, and one which I found in a local thrift
store this summer. Finding the second one inspired me to try to get them
working... and I am rather out of my depth.
The only electrical part (the AC induction motor that powers the
mechanism) works fine in both, but both have other, mechanical issues.
I've run them some under electrical power and spent a lot more time slowly
turning the mechanism by hand, trying to work out what it's doing.
Both have 'sticky digits', i.e. the mechanism that both rotates the type
wheels into the correct position during the print part of the cycle and
then is added to the accumulator in the accumulate part of the cycle
doesn't move freely and thus doesn't print and doesn't accumulate the
correct totals. One also has sticky pins in the input register and the
other doesn't seem to carry at all and has a sticky 'leading zero
suppression' mechanism.
First and foremost, the oil in both machines has congealed into a sticky
mess. I clearly need to replace it, but I have no idea what to replace it
with. I suspect that it's something similar to what's used to lube
typewriters, given that they were built by typewriter companies using
typewriter-inspired mechanisms?
Second, I have no idea how to take them apart correctly. I've successfully
gotten the covers off, but I can't even get the ribbon holder/winding
assembly off since it's linked to a mechanism that's supposed to lift it
to switch from black to red ink, and I can't find a way to safely
disengage them... I've also tried to remove the platen cylinder, but the
ribbon holder is in the way of the retaining screws. The only other things
I can obviously remove at this point are return springs that hold various
levers/cams in place, but I can't see how that would help me remove
anything behind them, and all of the cams seem to be maually aligned on
their axles, held in the correct position by the same screws that would
need to be removed to take the axles out. Ease of service does not seem to
have been a design goal in these machines :-/
My inability to disassemble them is doubly problematic since parts of the
mechanism are buried behind so much other stuff that I can't see what
they're doing, and there are parts that I can't seem to get to move using
any combination of front panel inputs... there's one bit that I've found a
way to reset (subtracting) but not a way to set using normal inputs... and
I don't see any way of actuating the ink-color-swithcing mechanism.
Does anyone have experience with anything similar that would be able to
offer advice? I'd be glad to make photos and my reverse-engineering notes
available...
They are fascinating machines (the whole accumulator rotates around
backwards to subtract!), but I am afraid of damaging them with my clumsy
attempts at repair. Since I have two, I guess I can muddle along by trial
and error, but I would really love to hear from someone that's worked on a
similar device before.
Alexey
4 Sep
4 Sep
7:36 p.m.
While I have not repaired adding machines I have done many mechanical
mechanisms,
For something that complex a manual is very useful for the basic
method of taking assemblies apart.
For some riveted mechanisms immersion in an ultrasonic bath is the
easiest way but any plastics and paint may be damaged.
There are some watch cleaner solutions that dry leaving some oil, they
are designed for the total mechanism immersion in an ultrasonic bath
except for the painted dial.
Else its a careful disassembly and cleaning process, you should be
able to identify sections that can be done in isolation.
Dave Caroline
5 Sep
5 Sep
1:08 p.m.
At 06:16 PM 9/4/2011, you wrote:
I have a pair of Olivetti Underwood 288s (10-key
7 digit input, 8 digit output adding machines),
one of which I got from list member Patrick
Finnegan a couple of years ago, and one which I
found in a local thrift store this summer.
Finding the second one inspired me to try to get
them working... and I am rather out of my depth.
I worked for an office equipment store back in
the 80's. They had a concrete laundry tub filled
with kerosene or some similar solvent, with some
metal racks in them. Any major repairs to
typewriters or mechanical calculators was
proceeded by a dunk in the solvent, perhaps over
night. I think they used the other half of the
sink for a second dunk. Might have been more
kerosene or maybe kerosene with a small amount of
light machine oil dissolved in it. They only
dunked the metal parts. I'm not sure if the
removed each plastic key first or not-- maybe they did.
The two guys that did this stuff, Joe and Carlos,
were really good at what they did. They were also
both 60-something, and are probably gone from
this earth by now. Too bad; my boss was a crook
but these two guys were the salt of the earth,
and were a pleasure to work with.
-T
811 . [Voting] The margin is narrow, but the responsibility is clear.
NEW: a50mhzham at gmail.com ? N9QQB (amateur radio)
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EN53wc
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? Registered Linux User 385531
5:20 p.m.
On 05/09/2011 18:08, Tom wrote:
I worked for an office equipment store back in the
80's. They had a
concrete laundry tub filled with kerosene or some similar solvent, with
some metal racks in them. Any major repairs to typewriters or mechanical
calculators was proceeded by a dunk in the solvent, perhaps over night.
I think they used the other half of the sink for a second dunk. Might
have been more kerosene or maybe kerosene with a small amount of light
machine oil dissolved in it. They only dunked the metal parts. I'm not
sure if the removed each plastic key first or not-- maybe they did.
I've been thinking along those lines for my ASR33. It's got a lot of
old sticky lubricant all over the typing unit, and I heard recently of
one that was dunked. Mine doesn't always work reliably when it's cold,
but usually is OK after running for a while and has warmed up.
What do people think about that? My feeling is it wants a good clean
and a proper re-lubrication, and cleaning would be easiest by the
"dunk". Obviously a lot of electrical or plastic parts want taken off
first (the motor, for example!).
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
5:41 p.m.
I've been thinking along those lines for my ASR33.
It's got a lot of
old sticky lubricant all over the typing unit, and I heard recently of
one that was dunked. Mine doesn't always work reliably when it's cold,
but usually is OK after running for a while and has warmed up.
What do people think about that? My feeling is it wants a good clean
and a proper re-lubrication, and cleaning would be easiest by the
"dunk". Obviously a lot of electrical or plastic parts want taken off
first (the motor, for example!).
That sort of method is frwned upon by every book/article on antique clock
repair that I have ever read. The main problem is that it doesn't really
remove the old oil (if you're not careful it gets redepositied when the
solcent evaporates), and it certainly doesn't remove it well from the
placed that really matter -- inside bearings, etc.
Given that the full manuals for the ASR33 are available, it shou;dn't
take more than than a few days to compeltly strip it, clean all the aprts
individsually, making sure that bearings, holes, slots, etc are really
clean, and put ti back togethter. And if you do that ouu know it's right.
I did my first ASR33 like that (actually a Data Dynamics 390, but it's
the smae mechanism) when I was sitll at school without the benefit of
manuals. Anyone else should manage it therefore.
-tony
6:43 p.m.
On 5 Sep 2011 at 22:41, Tony Duell wrote:
That sort of method is frwned upon by every
book/article on antique
clock repair that I have ever read. The main problem is that it
doesn't really remove the old oil (if you're not careful it gets
redepositied when the solcent evaporates), and it certainly doesn't
remove it well from the placed that really matter -- inside bearings,
etc.
Vapor degreasers aren't uncommon. Would they do a better job?
--Chuck
6 Sep
6 Sep
6:15 a.m.
I know that paraffin (kerosene) washers are used in the car industry.
They have a short metal hose over a grid in a round enclosure. A pump moves
the paraffin up through the hose.
Regards
?
Rod Smallwood
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
|d|i|g|i|t|a|l|
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
-----Original Message-----
From: cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org]
On Behalf Of Pete Turnbull
Sent: 05 September 2011 22:20
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Adding machine repair
On 05/09/2011 18:08, Tom wrote:
I worked for an office equipment store back in the
80's. They had a
concrete laundry tub filled with kerosene or some similar solvent, with
some metal racks in them. Any major repairs to typewriters or mechanical
calculators was proceeded by a dunk in the solvent, perhaps over night.
I think they used the other half of the sink for a second dunk. Might
have been more kerosene or maybe kerosene with a small amount of light
machine oil dissolved in it. They only dunked the metal parts. I'm not
sure if the removed each plastic key first or not-- maybe they did.
I've been thinking along those lines for my ASR33. It's got a lot of
old sticky lubricant all over the typing unit, and I heard recently of
one that was dunked. Mine doesn't always work reliably when it's cold,
but usually is OK after running for a while and has warmed up.
What do people think about that? My feeling is it wants a good clean
and a proper re-lubrication, and cleaning would be easiest by the
"dunk". Obviously a lot of electrical or plastic parts want taken off
first (the motor, for example!).
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
2:50 p.m.
At 04:20 PM 9/5/2011, Pete Turnbull wrote:
I've been thinking along those lines for my ASR33.
It's got a lot of old sticky lubricant all over the typing unit, and I heard recently
of one that was dunked. Mine doesn't always work reliably when it's cold, but
usually is OK after running for a while and has warmed up. What do people think about
that?
It's certainly a FAQ on the Greenkeys list:
http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
Yes, dunk it, then re-lube.
- John
5:21 p.m.
On 06/09/2011 19:50, John Foust wrote:
At 04:20 PM 9/5/2011, Pete Turnbull wrote:
Thanks -- I've not read much of the archives but it looks like I should
:-) I was reasonably sure it would be OK, providing a good rinse with
clean(ish) paraffin (kerosene) removes the last gunk. A friend had a
professional maintainer look at one of his recently and I'm told that's
what he did, so I guess it's a case of rinse well, drain well, re-lube
carefully. I was just wondering about the electrics, some of which
won't like the dunk.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
I've been thinking along those lines for my
ASR33. It's got a lot of old sticky lubricant all over the typing unit, and I heard
recently of one that was dunked. Mine doesn't always work reliably when it's
cold, but usually is OK after running for a while and has warmed up. What do people think
about that?
It's certainly a FAQ on the Greenkeys list:
http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
Yes, dunk it, then re-lube. 
7 Sep
7 Sep
4:47 a.m.
?I was just wondering about the electrics, some of
which won't like the
dunk.
I think you remove the electric motor and switch...and all plastics
before dunking. All that should come off relatively easy.
You could also try someone with a good automotive solvent tank to
clean the mechanical parts.
--
Paxton Hoag
Astoria, OR
USA
11:39 a.m.
Here is what I do; but you need to make up your own mind for your needs:
As a first pass you could try cleaning solvent used on machinery
(automotive) but I would only use fresh solvent and not stuff from a work
shop (!). "Stoddard" solvent in the USA is a trade name for a
"safer"
cleaner with a higher flashpoint. Usually sold in 5 gal cans (Tractor
Supply is one place). I haven't had problems with plastics but you will
want to be careful and avoid that. Its mild on your skin, and it likes to
be warm to work its best so I put it out in the sun for the day.
Next would be Naptha - sold in gallon cans and any paint or hardware
(lowes/HD) store. Its a mild but slighty oily solvent with a high flash
point. Warm is good here.
Really nasty stuff I use Spray cans of engine cleaner from the auto store;
Gunk is a common brand. Its a solvent with a soap so that you can wash it
off with water. It has discolored some case plastics.
Simple green is perhaps the safest/cheapest/easiest, and you spray it into
tight places, or use it to soak, works well in warm to hot water. Hot
water is good to rinse with too as it will dry faster. You have to be able
to deal with flash rusting during the drying so the faster you can do that
the better. An air blow gun is useful. Orange degreaser works better, its
a bit more harsh. Industrial degreasers (purple) are too harsh and discolor
metal.
I will confess to using a pressure washer and simple green on cabinets,
doors, and computer gear including large fixed head disks. Oh and cables.
But these were stored in a barn and were used as a restroom by cats, racoons
and woodchucks...
I would follow all of these up with a spray bath of Electronics parts
cleaner - you can get spray cans of this at Electrical supply places, or
HD/lowes. put what ever you are cleaning over a pan or sawhorses so the
wash can run off the part being cleaned and carry away dirt and oil. Be
very careful with this on plastics, especially the typical urethane cases on
monitors, computers, etc of the 80s and 90s. This bath should wash away
anything left by the solvents and you will then need to oil and lube
everything. At this point, any unpainted/unplated steel parts will be
vulnerable to rusting so you need to think about how to keep things dry or
spray on a fog of some kind of oil. WD-40 is ok for that - i also use it as
a solvent/cleaner to wash gum and dirt out of moving parts, but not as a
lube. LPS has some better products for inhibiting rust too.
I have been using "Super Grease" on my electro/mechanical stuff for the past
10 years with good results. Its a synthetic, food safe, semi clear.
HD/Lowes has it in tubes and 1lb can. Its online too, and ebay stores. I
stay away from white grease these days but it was typical in the 60s thru
80s.
The bicycle folks have some great oils, drip-less and synthetic (wont
oxidize and gel into goo with age). Or use
good old 3-in-one oil. 3inone is pretty light, some things like
larger electrical
motors need a bit heaver oil like 30W motor oil . There might be specs on
the motor for this, or the documents. In my case I usually have to guess;
small light weight gets 3in1, if it weighs over a pound... 30w.
Bob.
12:02 p.m.
In the clock trade they say DONT use 3 in 1 and auto oils
they are the oils guilty of the thick sticky residue when they dry
clockmakers prefer non drying oils for that reason some of the
synthetics are good in that respect
before synthetics clock oils were based on some of the animal oils
Dave Caroline
12:45 p.m.
On , Dave Caroline <dave.thearchivist at gmail.com> wrote:
In the clock trade they say DONT use 3 in 1 and auto
oils
they are the oils guilty of the thick sticky residue
when they dry
clockmakers prefer non drying oils for that reason
some of the
synthetics are good in that respect
before synthetics clock oils were based on some of the
animal oils
Dave Caroline
I agree. all the off the shelf stuff is not clock friendly. In the past,
Whale oil was used for lube and lamps.
3:27 p.m.
New subject: CDC 9766 Disk Pak reading
okay, been trying to do this for a few years now, but things never sync
up.... anybody have a working CDC9766 or DEC RM05 that is willing to
read some disk paks for me? (approx. 20 of them)
In return you can keep all of the disk paks, I also have an Alignment
disk pak and once the data is read off of them, I have a CDC9766 that is
untested that I'm willing to throw in if you pay to have it picked up.
I'm in NY, will pay to ship the disk paks or drive them over if your
within 150mi
Curt
1:59 p.m.
Oh and (top post!) I love Marvel Mystery Oil.... And so do my MGs.
Just a dab here and there on date night!
On , Fred Cisin <cisin at xenosoft.com> wrote:
On Wed, 7 Sep 2011, Dave Caroline wrote:
> In the clock trade they say DONT use 3 in 1 and
auto oils
So, they only use WD40? :-)
2:40 p.m.
In the clock trade they say DONT use 3 in 1 and auto oils
And the worst is Wanton Destruction 40 :-)
they are the oils guilty of the thick sticky residue
when they dry
clockmakers prefer non drying oils for that reason some of the
synthetics are good in that respect
before synthetics clock oils were based on some of the animal oils
It shouldn't be too hard to get watch or clock oil, sold as such. In
London I'd got to H.S. Walsh (now in Biggin Hill, they've moved from
Beckenham). There are many grades, but a couple of them (a light watch
oil, and a somewaht thicker clock oil) would be OK for most jobs.
-tony
12:48 p.m.
On 7 Sep 2011 at 10:39, Robert Ollerton wrote:
Here is what I do; but you need to make up your own
mind for your
needs:
Where would you place perc on the list of solvents? Often sold as
auto brake cleaner or as dry cleaning liquid. It does seem to bother
some, but not all plastics (probably doesn't sit well with styrene).
The bicycle folks have some great oils, drip-less and
synthetic (wont
oxidize and gel into goo with age). Or use good old 3-in-one oil.
3inone is pretty light, some things like larger electrical motors need
a bit heaver oil like 30W motor oil . There might be specs on the
motor for this, or the documents. In my case I usually have to guess;
small light weight gets 3in1, if it weighs over a pound... 30w.
In brass band instruments, there are any number of very light oils
used; some synthetics as well (e.g. Hetman, Binak). I like to use
plain old Ultrapure lamp oil because it's cheap, very low viscosity,
doesn't smell and will evaporate with time without leaving residue.
Heavier alternatives are 5 weight "white oil", used on sewing machine
and embroidery equipment. I've heard of people using Marvel Mystery
Oil on their equipmet as well, as it's only about SAE 3 weight.
Any professional tribologists on the list?
--Chuck
1:47 p.m.
Brake cleaner is cheap, comes in a spray can, easy to find. I use it to
degrease motors and other oil/dirt things, and Brakes. And MGs.
But.. its harsh on your skin, paint, and on plastics. Some brands leave a
white residue that needs to be washed off with something else afterwards.
If I had a tty33 out of the case I think I would start with brake cleaner,
then electric cleaner, blow it dry and a few hours in the sun and then a
fog of wd-40, and then
oil the parts that need oil.
But hey, thats me. I work on airplanes, MGA/MGB and GMC trucks too. And my
Sigma 9 (sigma9.info).
2:24 p.m.
On 07/09/2011 16:39, Robert Ollerton wrote:
As a first pass you could try cleaning solvent used
on machinery
(automotive) but I would only use fresh solvent
Well, the normal regime for any cleaning or solvent operation is to use
the second-grade first and /finish/ with the best/cleanest. You get a
lot off (or dissolved) with used solvent, but you need the cleanest to
remove the last traces.
Actually, I usually have a big can of such stuff, and it gets used so
rarely that any crud - and heavy oil etc - settles out. But I recently
decided it was past its sell-by date, as we say, so it was "relocated"
and I'll have to buy some new.
Next would be Naptha - sold in gallon cans and any
paint or hardware
(lowes/HD) store. Its a mild but slighty oily solvent with a high flash
point. Warm is good here.
Essentially what we call paraffin. And that's what I'll probably use.
Really nasty stuff I use Spray cans of engine cleaner
from the auto store;
Gunk is a common brand.
I know it well, great for engines, not so much for more delicate stuff.
I will confess to using a pressure washer and simple
green on cabinets,
doors, and computer gear including large fixed head disks.
I've done that for one or two, or just a hose and a paintbrush of some.
I would follow all of these up with a spray bath of
Electronics parts
cleaner
I have several choices, but rarely use aerols becasue they're rxpensive.
I do have a spray gun though.
At this point, any unpainted/unplated steel parts will be
vulnerable to rusting so you need to think about how
to keep things dry or
spray on a fog of some kind of oil. WD-40 is ok for that
I wouldn't. It's a mixture of naptha and wax, and I don't want a
residue left collecting dust. That's one of the problems I've seen on a
few teletypes, printers, and typewriters.
Or use
good old 3-in-one oil. 3inone is pretty light
I wouldn't use that either, it oxidises and goes very sticky.
motors need a bit heaver oil like 30W motor oil .
There might be specs on
the motor for this, or the documents.
Yep, the Teletype manual specifies SAE20 oil and a fairly ordinary
grease elsewhere. I'd use a modern synthetic that doesn't go sticky,
probably a hydraulic oil or gearbox oil that has little or no additives.
I just happen to have a large bottle of low-viscosity gear oil that I
bought when I needed a particular type for a hifi turntable (I've used
about 0.5ml out of 1 litre but it was still cheaper than buying the
identical product re-packaged from specialist shops).
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
2:58 p.m.
Pete;
I don't have the gummy problems with oils where I am. But then the weather
is a bit dryer and warmer. Any oil will collect dust, etc.
2:24 p.m.
On 07/09/2011 09:47, Paxton Hoag wrote:
I was certainly planning to figure out what I can remove first. Thanks!
Anyone have specific recommendations or should I just bury myself in the
manual for a while?
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
I was just
wondering about the electrics, some of which won't like the
dunk.
I think you remove the electric motor and switch...and all plastics
before dunking. All that should come off relatively easy.
You could also try someone with a good automotive solvent tank to
clean the mechanical parts.
3:13 p.m.
I was certainly planning to figure out what I can
remove first. Thanks!
Anyone have specific recommendations or should I just bury myself in the
manual for a while?
An ASR44, right?
Well, personally, I'd take the whole thing apart and clean each component
by hand, peg out the holes, and so on. It really doesn't take that long.
But if you want to kludge it, at least remove :
Motor (and assockated electrical bits)
Distributor brush and PCB 'disk)
Trasnmit shaft triival now)
Puch mechanuism (it's easy to remvoe,)
Platen assembly (there's a spring on the underside of the typing unit to
detach first)
Carriage (remove the damper piston from its left side, take off the
return spring, the belt pulley and the breacket over the advance
sprocket. Then turn the carriage anticlockwise as seen from the front,
about an axis going horizotnally front-back) and pull it out_.
What, though, is the objextion to completely stripping it. As I
mentioned, I did my first ASR 33 while still at school (actually as light
releif between my A-level exams), without the benefit of the manual.
Worked second time (I had the print inhibit linkage misassembled the
first time). I think doing the whole machine, typing unit, keyuboard,
punch and reader took a couple of weeks working evenings, and I was also
figuring out how it all worked.
-tony
4:12 p.m.
I was certainly planning to figure out what I can
remove first. Thanks!
Anyone have specific recommendations or should I just bury myself in the
manual for a while?
An ASR44, right?
Well, personally, I'd take the whole thing apart and clean each component
by hand, peg out the holes, and so on. It really doesn't take that long.
But if you want to kludge it, at least remove :
Motor (and assockated electrical bits)
Distributor brush and PCB 'disk)
Trasnmit shaft triival now)
Puch mechanuism (it's easy to remvoe,)
Platen assembly (there's a spring on the underside of the typing unit to
detach first)
Carriage (remove the damper piston from its left side, take off the
return spring, the belt pulley and the breacket over the advance
sprocket. Then turn the carriage anticlockwise as seen from the front,
about an axis going horizotnally front-back) and pull it out_.
What, though, is the objextion to completely stripping it. As I
mentioned, I did my first ASR 33 while still at school (actually as light
releif between my A-level exams), without the benefit of the manual.
Worked second time (I had the print inhibit linkage misassembled the
first time). I think doing the whole machine, typing unit, keyuboard,
punch and reader took a couple of weeks working evenings, and I was also
figuring out how it all worked.
-tony
4:35 p.m.
On 07/09/2011 20:13, Tony Duell wrote:
ASR33, but the babelfish is sure that's what you meant :-)
I was
certainly planning to figure out what I can remove first. Thanks!
Anyone have specific recommendations or should I just bury myself in the
manual for a while?
An ASR44, right? Well, personally, I'd take the whole thing apart
and clean each component
by hand, peg out the holes, and so on. It really doesn't take that long.
But if you want to kludge it, at least remove :
[ helpful stuff]
What, though, is the objextion to completely stripping
it.
Mostly time. I haven't got a lot spare! Secondly, space. I have
almost no space to lay things out safely if I have to dismantle
something like this very far, and the risk of someone else disturbing
things is moderately high.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
8 Sep
8 Sep
3:51 p.m.
On 07/09/2011 20:13, Tony Duell wrote:
ASR33, but the babelfish is sure that's what you meant :-)
Yes, I spotted that and sent a correction.
I was
certainly planning to figure out what I can remove first. Thanks!
Anyone have specific recommendations or should I just bury myself in the
manual for a while?
An ASR44, right? Well, personally, I'd take the whole thing
apart and clean each component
by hand, peg out the holes, and so on. It really doesn't take that long.
But if you want to kludge it, at least remove :
[ helpful stuff]
> What, though, is the objextion to completely stripping it.
Mostly time. I haven't got a lot spare! Secondly, space. I have
almost no space to lay things out safely if I have to dismantle
something like this very far, and the risk of someone else disturbing
things is moderately high.
Sure, but I didn;t say you hafe to take the whole thing apart at once...
I have suggested removing various moduels anyway. There are others that
come off too, like the receiver mechansim. Each module, and things like
the keyboard and reader, can be stripped, cleanerd, and put back together
in an afternoon I think. So you take a module, strip it down, clean the
parts, put it back together, and put it in box until the whole machien is
ready to go back together.
My other tip is to buy some of thos divided plastic boxes. The Raaco ones
from Farnell (etc) are godd, don't get the ones
with adjustable partions
which will decide to adjuest themselves at the wrong
moment. When you
take something off, put the fixing parts (screws, washers, etc) in a
compartment of said box. If nevessary put in a slip of paper to indicate
what the bits are. When you need to pack up, close the lid down and the
parts are all safely stored.
-tony
5 Sep
5 Sep
3:59 p.m.
You might want to talk to somebody who repairs electric typewriters.
My Selectric II was also suffering from lube that had congealed during
years of disuse. It is a fairly standard procedure to remove the old
lubricant from the mechanical parts to get them free and working again.
Anybody that repairs electric typewriters should have some ideas on
how to handle your adding machines.
Mike
5:03 p.m.
I have a pair of Olivetti Underwood 288s (10-key 7
digit input, 8 digit
output adding machines), one of which I got from list member Patrick
Finnegan a couple of years ago, and one which I found in a local thrift
store this summer. Finding the second one inspired me to try to get them
working... and I am rather out of my depth.
The only electrical part (the AC induction motor that powers the
mechanism) works fine in both, but both have other, mechanical issues.
I've run them some under electrical power and spent a lot more time slowly
turning the mechanism by hand, trying to work out what it's doing.
Both have 'sticky digits', i.e. the mechanism that both rotates the type
wheels into the correct position during the print part of the cycle and
then is added to the accumulator in the accumulate part of the cycle
doesn't move freely and thus doesn't print and doesn't accumulate the
correct totals. One also has sticky pins in the input register and the
other doesn't seem to carry at all and has a sticky 'leading zero
suppression' mechanism.
First and foremost, the oil in both machines has congealed into a sticky
mess. I clearly need to replace it, but I have no idea what to replace it
with. I suspect that it's something similar to what's used to lube
typewriters, given that they were built by typewriter companies using
typewriter-inspired mechanisms?
THis is a common problem with all old machinery of this type (including
typewriters, printers, etc). The correct thing to do IMHO is to strip the
thing down and clean all the parts separately. There's a 'butcher's
trick' whcih involves removing the motor (and anything else that might be
damaged) and dunking th whole thing a in a bath of petrol or simialr. It
rrely does much good...
Second, I have no idea how to take them apart correctly. I've successfully
gotten the covers off, but I can't even get the ribbon holder/winding
assembly off since it's linked to a mechanism that's supposed to lift it
to switch from black to red ink, and I can't find a way to safely
disengage them... I've also tried to remove the platen cylinder, but the
ribbon holder is in the way of the retaining screws. The only other things
I can obviously remove at this point are return springs that hold various
levers/cams in place, but I can't see how that would help me remove
anything behind them, and all of the cams seem to be maually aligned on
their axles, held in the correct position by the same screws that would
need to be removed to take the axles out. Ease of service does not seem to
have been a design goal in these machines :-/
The serive manual would be very useful, but I'll but it's totally
unobtainable....
The only thing you can do is 'tread carefully;. My guess, based on
simailar machines, is that they will break down into modules, but you may
have to remvoe other small parts first. You may have to remveo individau
lcams, and they may be adustable (try to mark their postionions bfore
taking them off, I guess the service manual would have the adjustment
procedure, but if oyu had tht you'd not be asking).
My inability to disassemble them is doubly problematic since parts of the
mechanism are buried behind so much other stuff that I can't see what
they're doing, and there are parts that I can't seem to get to move using
any combination of front panel inputs... there's one bit that I've found a
way to reset (subtracting) but not a way to set using normal inputs... and
Subtracting automatically (that is, not manually) could be part of a
division mechanism?
I don't see any way of actuating the
ink-color-swithcing mechanism.
Does anyone have experience with anything similar that would be able to
offer advice? I'd be glad to make photos and my reverse-engineering notes
available...
They are fascinating machines (the whole accumulator rotates around
backwards to subtract!), but I am afraid of damaging them with my clumsy
attempts at repair. Since I have two, I guess I can muddle along by trial
and error, but I would really love to hear from someone that's worked on a
similar device before.
It's almost imposisble to help you without seeign the machines (and I
don't mean seeing pictures of them), but I had a mis-spent childhood
rpairing things (inclduing doing a full ASR33 strip and rebuild without
any manuals). The tricks are to keep notes of what goes where, maybe take
photos as you go along(if you have a digital camera), and to keep
associated parts togethter (so you know where sprigns go, etc). Don't
force anything.
My guess it that you're starting in the right place, and that the ribbon
drive comes off early on. Are you sure the linkage can't be separated?
-tony
6:29 p.m.
On Mon, 5 Sep 2011, Tony Duell wrote:
There's no divide key. There's a lever that goes to something I can't see
that gets reset when you subtract (manually), but the only way I can find
to set it is to reach in and move it with a screwdriver.
The serive manual would be very useful, but I'll
but it's totally
unobtainable....
Yeah, that's the conclusion I'm coming to.
The only thing you can do is 'tread carefully;. My
guess, based on
simailar machines, is that they will break down into modules, but you may
have to remvoe other small parts first. You may have to remveo individau
lcams, and they may be adustable (try to mark their postionions bfore
taking them off, I guess the service manual would have the adjustment
procedure, but if oyu had tht you'd not be asking).
I will try not to move the cams, I do not want to have to re-align them...
My inability
to disassemble them is doubly problematic since parts of the
mechanism are buried behind so much other stuff that I can't see what
they're doing, and there are parts that I can't seem to get to move using
any combination of front panel inputs... there's one bit that I've found a
way to reset (subtracting) but not a way to set using normal inputs... and
Subtracting automatically (that is, not manually) could be part of a
division mechanism? It's almost imposisble to help you without seeign
the machines (and I
don't mean seeing pictures of them), but I had a mis-spent childhood
rpairing things (inclduing doing a full ASR33 strip and rebuild without
any manuals). The tricks are to keep notes of what goes where, maybe take
photos as you go along(if you have a digital camera), and to keep
associated parts togethter (so you know where sprigns go, etc). Don't
force anything.
My guess it that you're starting in the right place, and that the ribbon
drive comes off early on. Are you sure the linkage can't be separated?
The lever that moves the ribbon holder up&down has a C-shaped bit that's
hooked all the way through the ribbon holder... it might be removable if I
move the lever rather than the ribbon holder, but it is behind a whole
bunch of other stuff. I think I will try removing the motor next, it is
close to the outside and not obviously connected to anything but the main
drive shaft.
Any idea what sort of oil I want to re-lubricate with once I get it apart
and cleaned? Light silicone oil on axles and grease on cam surfaces?
Alexey
6 Sep
6 Sep
2:08 p.m.
The lever that moves the ribbon holder up&down has
a C-shaped bit that's
hooked all the way through the ribbon holder... it might be removable if I
move the lever rather than the ribbon holder, but it is behind a whole
bunch of other stuff. I think I will try removing the motor next, it is
You are sure it's rigidly fixed at hte hidden end? It's possible it's
fixed (and pivoted) on the ribbon drive unit, and just runs on a cam, or
hooks into a forekd end of anotehr lever, so that when you remvoe the
fixing screws for the ribbon drive, it just comes out with it. Have you
tried this?
close to the outside and not obviously connected to
anything but the main
drive shaft.
Yes, normall the motor will come out easily.
Any idea what sort of oil I want to re-lubricate with once I get it apart
and cleaned? Light silicone oil on axles and grease on cam surfaces?
I norally use watch and clock oils for something like this. And yes, a
smear of high melting point grease (the sort of stuff you use for car
bearings) on cams, motor gearing, etc.
-tony
4675
days inactive
4679
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30 comments
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