30 May
2010
30 May
'10
9:39 p.m.
Can anyone tell me the approximate transistor count of the 6809?
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
30 May
30 May
10 p.m.
On 31 May 2010 at 0:39, Dave McGuire wrote:
Can anyone tell me the approximate transistor count of the 6809?
Another member, nine years ago said 9K--so that's what, a
kilotransistor per year?
http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2001-May/170288.html
Cheers,
Chuck
11:43 p.m.
Perhaps ask this guy he was there, And he has some interesting stuff
on his site.
http://www.ciphersbyritter.com/AUTHOR.HTM
Dave Caroline
On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 5:39 AM, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote:
?Can anyone tell me the approximate transistor count of the 6809?
? ? ? ? ? ? ? -Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
31 May
31 May
7:47 a.m.
Dave McGuire wrote:
Can anyone tell me the approximate transistor count of the 6809?
-Dave
Well for a ballpark figure I would double the 6800 transistor count.
2x microcode rom & 2x registers.
http://www.techheap.com/processors/6809/the_6809.pdf
I get about 40K transistors as ball park figure.
Ben.
8:37 a.m.
On 31 May 2010 at 8:47, Ben wrote:
I get about 40K transistors as ball park figure.
In fact, the 6809 has only about 5% more transistors than the Z80
according to data from Microprocessor Report. The 8086 has fewer
than 30K. Of course, a lot of the distinction depends on what's
being called a "transistor".
--Chuck
4:23 p.m.
Ben wrote:
Dave McGuire wrote:
Thanks for that link; I love reading stuff like that. I'll admit I've
not diligently researched all the possibilities, but of all the
8-bitters I've ever encountered, the 6809 is definitely my favorite.
The only problem I have with that pdf file is, with my Foxit reader
anyway, all the pictures are blank. I need to go try it with Adobe to
see if that matters. Any one else have that problem?
Later,
Charlie C.
Can anyone tell me the approximate transistor count of the 6809?
-Dave
Well for a ballpark figure I would double the 6800 transistor count.
2x microcode rom & 2x registers.
http://www.techheap.com/processors/6809/the_6809.pdf
I get about 40K transistors as ball park figure.
Ben.
11:16 p.m.
CSquared wrote:
Ben wrote:
Blank as well on Preview under OSX 10.6 - first time I've ever seen
that. Perhaps the original file is defective in some way...
John :-#(#
Dave McGuire wrote:
Thanks for that link; I love reading stuff like that. I'll admit I've
not diligently researched all the possibilities, but of all the
8-bitters I've ever encountered, the 6809 is definitely my favorite.
The only problem I have with that pdf file is, with my Foxit reader
anyway, all the pictures are blank. I need to go try it with Adobe to
see if that matters. Any one else have that problem?
Later,
Charlie C.
Can anyone tell me the approximate transistor count of the 6809?
-Dave
Well for a ballpark figure I would double the 6800 transistor count.
2x microcode rom & 2x registers.
http://www.techheap.com/processors/6809/the_6809.pdf
I get about 40K transistors as ball park figure.
Ben.
1 Jun
1 Jun
7:35 p.m.
John Robertson wrote:
CSquared wrote:
Glen, Walter and perhaps others suggested this, which works fine for me.
The pictures all show up in this pdf.
http://tlindner.macmess.org/wp-content/uploads/2006/09/byte_6809_articles.p…
Later,
Charlie C.
Ben wrote:
Blank as well on Preview under OSX 10.6 - first time I've ever seen
that. Perhaps the original file is defective in some way...
John :-#(#
Dave McGuire wrote:
Thanks for that link; I love reading stuff like that. I'll admit I've
not diligently researched all the possibilities, but of all the
8-bitters I've ever encountered, the 6809 is definitely my favorite.
The only problem I have with that pdf file is, with my Foxit reader
anyway, all the pictures are blank. I need to go try it with Adobe to
see if that matters. Any one else have that problem?
Later,
Charlie C.
Can anyone tell me the approximate transistor count of the 6809?
-Dave
Well for a ballpark figure I would double the 6800 transistor count.
2x microcode rom & 2x registers.
http://www.techheap.com/processors/6809/the_6809.pdf
I get about 40K transistors as ball park figure.
Ben.
12:57 a.m.
CSquared wrote:
Ben wrote:
Yes, I can't see them either - using an old version of Acrobat Reader.
Fun read, nice that they spent some time on the history of logic development.
We've mentioned the breadboarding of the 6809 or 68000 design on the list
previously, but seeing it written up in a period article does make the whole
notion of breadboarding a new micro-processor design in TTL sound very quaint today.
Dave McGuire wrote:
Thanks for that link; I love reading stuff like that. I'll admit I've
not diligently researched all the possibilities, but of all the
8-bitters I've ever encountered, the 6809 is definitely my favorite.
The only problem I have with that pdf file is, with my Foxit reader
anyway, all the pictures are blank. I need to go try it with Adobe to
see if that matters.
Any one else have that problem? Can anyone tell me the approximate transistor
count of the 6809?
Well for a ballpark figure I would double the 6800 transistor count.
2x microcode rom & 2x registers.
http://www.techheap.com/processors/6809/the_6809.pdf
I get about 40K transistors as ball park figure.
6:55 a.m.
On 5/31/2010 7:23 PM, CSquared wrote:
The
only problem I have with that pdf file is, with my
Foxit reader anyway,
all the pictures are blank. I need to go try it with Adobe to see if
that matters. Any one else have that problem?
Later,
Charlie C.
Adobe Reader 9 shows no pictures as well.
Keith
8:13 a.m.
On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 6:55 AM, Keith M <keithvz at verizon.net> wrote:
Adobe Reader 9 shows no pictures as well.
The picture are there in this copy:
http://tlindner.macmess.org/wp-content/uploads/2006/09/byte_6809_articles.p…
6:45 p.m.
Glen Slick wrote:
On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 6:55 AM, Keith M <keithvz at
verizon.net> wrote:
Ah yes, marvelous! Thanks.
Charlie C.
Adobe Reader 9 shows no pictures as well.
The picture are there in this copy:
http://tlindner.macmess.org/wp-content/uploads/2006/09/byte_6809_articles.p…
12 Jun
12 Jun
8:12 a.m.
New subject: looking for a working 11/05 (KD11-B) board set
My 11/05 was not working when I bought it and I would like
to find a known good board set so that I can verify functionality
of the rest of the machine and then possibly diagnose the defective
board set.
Does anyone have a known good KD11-B board set (M7260, M7261) which
they would be willing to part with?
--tnx
--tom
12:36 p.m.
New subject: looking for a working 11/05 (KD11-B) board setu
My 11/05 was not working when I bought it and I would like
to find a known good board set so that I can verify functionality
of the rest of the machine and then possibly diagnose the defective
board set.
Does anyone have a known good KD11-B board set (M7260, M7261) which
they would be willing to part with?
I rteally don't see what goof a working processor board set will do...
What is the machine doing or not doing? Have you checked all the power
lines (at least the +5V and -15V) at the backplane? Can you do anything
from the front panel? Read/write memory?
-tony
6:21 p.m.
New subject: looking for a working 11/05 (KD11-B) board setu
Tony has a good point here: it's usually the support stuff (power supplies,
connectors) that bugger up a machine of this simplicity. -- Ian
________________________________________
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of
Tony Duell [ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk]
Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2010 12:36 PM
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: looking for a working 11/05 (KD11-B) board setu
My 11/05 was not working when I bought it and I would like
to find a known good board set so that I can verify functionality
of the rest of the machine and then possibly diagnose the defective
board set.
Does anyone have a known good KD11-B board set (M7260, M7261) which
they would be willing to part with?
I rteally don't see what goof a working processor board set will do...
What is the machine doing or not doing? Have you checked all the power
lines (at least the +5V and -15V) at the backplane? Can you do anything
from the front panel? Read/write memory?
-tony
13 Jun
13 Jun
10:24 a.m.
New subject: looking for a working 11/05 (KD11-B) board setu
Tony has a good point here: it's usually the support stuff (power supplies,=
connectors) that bugger up a machine of this simplicity. -- Ian=20
Even if it isnt, I fail to see what good a spare CPU board set will do.
I know I am in aminority here, but I truely believe the only way to put
something right is to find the fault, and then to correct that fualt. Not
to randomly swap parts until the machine _appears_ to work again.
In any case, I don't know anyone who would be prepared to risk any PCB in
a machine where the health of the PSU isn't known.
The first thing to do is to discover just what it is and isn't doing. If
it were my machine I would start by checking the PSU with a meter and
'scope. PSU problems can make you think there's something wrong with just
about any part of the machine.
Then I would try reading and writing memory. If that fails. I'd stick in
a DL11 or something and try reading and writing that (if that works, it's
_likely_ there's a problem in the memroy section). And look at the Unibus
lines when doing meoroy accesses from the panel -- do they look right? If
not, there probably is a problem in the CPU -- then it's time to see
which signal(s) are wrong, what drives them, could there be a common
cause, check 'earlier' signals in the CPU logic, and so on.
-tony
14 Jun
14 Jun
8:39 a.m.
New subject: looking for a working 11/05 (KD11-B) board setu
Tony,
I understand and respect your views and knowledge greatly. I have very
limited time these days, but at some point in the future I expect to have
time to enjoy the restoration of my collection. When that time comes, I
would like to have a spare set of processor boards strictly from the
standpoint that as the 11/05 has some LSI components, at some point it
seems likely that one of them will fail. As the boards are not becoming
any easier to come by, I would rather find a set now than wait until they
become unobtainium.
When I last looked at this machine, I did in fact verify that all of the
power supplies were correct and clean. It has been long enough ago that
I don't recall the exact error condition that the machine was exhibiting,
so I cannot describe it at the moment. The problem could well be with
some other portion of the system than in the processor proper, and this
is highly likely as you have stated, but it does not eliminate the fact
that I would still like to find a set of spare processor boards, and as
long as I am finding a spare set, I would like them to be known to be
working.
Cheers,
--tom
Tony Duell wrote:
Tony has a
good point here: it's usually the support stuff (power supplies,=
connectors) that bugger up a machine of this simplicity. -- Ian=20
Even if it isnt, I fail to see what good a spare CPU board set will do.
I know I am in aminority here, but I truely believe the only way to put
something right is to find the fault, and then to correct that fualt. Not
to randomly swap parts until the machine _appears_ to work again.
In any case, I don't know anyone who would be prepared to risk any PCB in
a machine where the health of the PSU isn't known.
The first thing to do is to discover just what it is and isn't doing. If
it were my machine I would start by checking the PSU with a meter and
'scope. PSU problems can make you think there's something wrong with just
about any part of the machine.
Then I would try reading and writing memory. If that fails. I'd stick in
a DL11 or something and try reading and writing that (if that works, it's
_likely_ there's a problem in the memroy section). And look at the Unibus
lines when doing meoroy accesses from the panel -- do they look right? If
not, there probably is a problem in the CPU -- then it's time to see
which signal(s) are wrong, what drives them, could there be a common
cause, check 'earlier' signals in the CPU logic, and so on.
-tony
11:25 a.m.
New subject: looking for a working 11/05 (KD11-B) board setu
Hi Tom,
I have a set and memory you can borrow for a month or so if that will help.
If you wish to purchase them, feel free to contact me off list.
Thanks, Paul
On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 10:39 AM, Tom Uban <uban at ubanproductions.com> wrote:
Tony,
I understand and respect your views and knowledge greatly. I have very
limited time these days, but at some point in the future I expect to have
time to enjoy the restoration of my collection. When that time comes, I
would like to have a spare set of processor boards strictly from the
standpoint that as the 11/05 has some LSI components, at some point it
seems likely that one of them will fail. As the boards are not becoming
any easier to come by, I would rather find a set now than wait until they
become unobtainium.
When I last looked at this machine, I did in fact verify that all of the
power supplies were correct and clean. It has been long enough ago that
I don't recall the exact error condition that the machine was exhibiting,
so I cannot describe it at the moment. The problem could well be with
some other portion of the system than in the processor proper, and this
is highly likely as you have stated, but it does not eliminate the fact
that I would still like to find a set of spare processor boards, and as
long as I am finding a spare set, I would like them to be known to be
working.
Cheers,
--tom
Tony Duell wrote:
> Tony has a good point here: it's usually
the support stuff (power
supplies,=
connectors) that bugger up a machine of this simplicity. -- Ian=20
Even if it isnt, I fail to see what good a spare CPU board set will do.
I know I am in aminority here, but I truely believe the only way to put
something right is to find the fault, and then to correct that fualt. Not
to randomly swap parts until the machine _appears_ to work again.
In any case, I don't know anyone who would be prepared to risk any PCB in
a machine where the health of the PSU isn't known.
The first thing to do is to discover just what it is and isn't doing. If
it were my machine I would start by checking the PSU with a meter and
'scope. PSU problems can make you think there's something wrong with just
about any part of the machine.
Then I would try reading and writing memory. If that fails. I'd stick in
a DL11 or something and try reading and writing that (if that works, it's
_likely_ there's a problem in the memroy section). And look at the Unibus
lines when doing meoroy accesses from the panel -- do they look right? If
not, there probably is a problem in the CPU -- then it's time to see
which signal(s) are wrong, what drives them, could there be a common
cause, check 'earlier' signals in the CPU logic, and so on.
-tony
11:41 a.m.
New subject: looking for a working 11/05 (KD11-B) board setu
My 11/05
http://www.conservatique.com/pdp/pdp-1105
You don't need memory to run a (short) program on the 11/05, since the
registers are mapped at locations 177700 to 177707 ;-)
St?phane
12:42 p.m.
New subject: looking for a working 11/05 (KD11-B) board setu
standpoint that as the 11/05 has some LSI components,
at some point it
Does it? Well, I suppsoe there are 74181 ALus, and the mcirocode ROMs
which I would class as MSI. And the UART chip for the console port. What
else is there?
Apart from the ROMs (and listings are in the printset), I can't think of
a single custom IC in an 11/05
I don't recall the exact error condition that the
machine was exhibiting,
If you post the problem here, then I am sure we can help you track it down.
so I cannot describe it at the moment. The problem
could well be with
some other portion of the system than in the processor proper, and this
is highly likely as you have stated, but it does not eliminate the fact
that I would still like to find a set of spare processor boards, and as
long as I am finding a spare set, I would like them to be known to be
working.
It's odd, but I have never wanted to obtain spware boards for any of my
machines. Spare chips are another matter. I guess it's because I can
repair boards, I can't repair chips.
-tony
1 Jun
1 Jun
9:16 a.m.
CSquared wrote:
Thanks for that link; I love reading stuff like that.
I'll admit I've
not diligently researched all the possibilities, but of all the
8-bitters I've ever encountered, the 6809 is definitely my favorite. The
only problem I have with that pdf file is, with my Foxit reader anyway,
all the pictures are blank. I need to go try it with Adobe to see if
that matters. Any one else have that problem?
Later,
They are blank for some reason.
There are other copies I think on the net, but that was the
first one Google found.
Charlie C.
This was printed in BYTE before it became a PC only mag,
so you may find it in local library. Not around here,
the local library stopped keeping any subscriptions 15 years
ago.
10:04 p.m.
CSquared <csquared3 at tx.rr.com> wrote:
The only problem I have with that pdf file is, with my
Foxit reader
anyway, all the pictures are blank.
That is an early version of the PDF. When I first typed it up I did so
from photocopies of microfiche. The pictures were
totally shit, so I
just made place holders for them.
Then later a nice person sent me better pictures. Maybe someday someone
will send me color pictures.
--
tim lindner
tlindner at macmess.org Bright
5086
days inactive
5100
days old
21 comments
15 participants
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