1 Mar
2002
1 Mar
'02
9:33 a.m.
Hi.
Location: Germany, Kaiserslautern
Items: Two Symbolics 3600 Lisp machines, see
http://kogs-www.informatik.uni-hamburg.de/~moeller/symbolics-info/3600.html
Yes, they are heavy, big (1,8m / 6') 19" rack boxen.
State: _NOT_ working, it may be possible to build one working machine by
ripping the other.
Free for everyone who takes them.
BUT: You must take both (+ console Monitor) and you must take them
Sunday afternoon (14:00 - 15:00) or Monday (9:00 - 17:00). If they are
not gone on Tuesday, they will be taken apart and scraped.
Further details unknowen. No. I can not store them. I already managed
the salvation of three 3640 and one 3670 from the same location...
PLEASE mail me only if you are able to transport them.
--
tsch??,
Jochen
Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/
1 Mar
1 Mar
11:06 a.m.
New subject: Symbolics rescue (question about picture)
For nostalgic reasons, I have wanted to acquire two particular disk drives
for a PDP-11 of mine... I don't remember what they are called or what brand.
But - there are two of them in the very far right of the symbolics rescue
picture at the top of the rack with light brown trim line across the front.
Can anyone tell me what those are - and if there are any around to be
obtained? How hard are they to work on? Is the positioner based on patterns
on the drive or a glass reticule?
Thanks in advance!
Jay West
----- Original Message -----
Regarding...
Items: Two Symbolics 3600 Lisp machines, see
http://kogs-www.informatik.uni-hamburg.de/~moeller/symbolics-info/3600.html
11:45 a.m.
New subject: Symbolics rescue (question about picture)
On Fri, 1 Mar 2002, Jay West wrote:
For nostalgic reasons, I have wanted to acquire two
particular disk
drives for a PDP-11 of mine... I don't remember what they are called or
what brand. But - there are two of them in the very far right of the
symbolics rescue picture at the top of the rack with light brown trim
line across the front. Can anyone tell me what those are
Your talking about RK03 drives. I think they were actually made by Diablo
and that there were other models of Diablo drives that look like that.
It looks like the rack in question also contains a DG Nova of some sort.
I want some RK03s too. I have no disks for my PDP-11/20.
and if there are any around to be obtained?
I haven't seen any on eBay ever, and I think that only a few people on the
list have them. I doubt I'll ever be able to find one.
--
Jeffrey S. Sharp
jss(a)subatomix.com
12:28 p.m.
New subject: Symbolics rescue (question about picture)
yes, actually, I did see one on ebay several months ago - sadly, my
absentmindedness forgot to go bid on it *sigh*
Jay West
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeffrey S. Sharp" <jss(a)subatomix.com>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 4:45 PM
Subject: Re: Symbolics rescue (question about picture)
On Fri, 1 Mar 2002, Jay West wrote:
For nostalgic reasons, I have wanted to acquire
two particular disk
drives for a PDP-11 of mine... I don't remember what they are called or
what brand. But - there are two of them in the very far right of the
symbolics rescue picture at the top of the rack with light brown trim
line across the front. Can anyone tell me what those are
Your talking about RK03 drives. I think they were actually made by Diablo
and that there were other models of Diablo drives that look like that.
It looks like the rack in question also contains a DG Nova of some sort.
I want some RK03s too. I have no disks for my PDP-11/20.
and if there are any around to be obtained?
I haven't seen any on eBay ever, and I think that only a few people on the
list have them. I doubt I'll ever be able to find one.
--
Jeffrey S. Sharp
jss(a)subatomix.com
5 Mar
5 Mar
12:18 p.m.
New subject: Symbolics rescue (question about picture)
Re: RK03 and/or Diablo 31 disk drives...
> I haven't seen any on eBay ever, and I think
that only a few people on
> the list have them. I doubt I'll ever be able to find one.
I don't have one anymore... I used to have one but it was ruined in
a flood and discarded over 10 years ago. I still have the I/O
cable converters, though... a bit rusty but probably functional. I
never did have the PSU for it.
The dual PDP-8/M system at Ohio State that was used in the 1980s to
analyze horse urine for drugs (via the attached mass spectrometer) had
third-party dual-ported Diablo controllers (one each) and several
Diablo 31s. I wish I'd been in the right place at the right time to
catch it when they retired it, but I wasn't. :-(
-ethan
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1 Mar
1 Mar
2:49 p.m.
New subject: Symbolics rescue (RK03/Diablo Type ?31?)
For nostalgic reasons, I have wanted to acquire two
particular disk drives
for a PDP-11 of mine... I don't remember what they are called or what brand.
But - there are two of them in the very far right of the symbolics rescue
picture at the top of the rack with light brown trim line across the front.
Can anyone tell me what those are - and if there are any around to be
obtained? How hard are they to work on? Is the positioner based on patterns
on the drive or a glass reticule?
Thanks in advance!
Jay West
IIRC they're RK03's aka Diablo type 31?
You must have an RK11-C controller...
Bill
--
d|i|g|i|t|a|l had it THEN. Don't you wish you could still buy it now!
bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@ureach.com
7:44 p.m.
New subject: RK Stuff (was: Symbolics rescue)
On Fri, 1 Mar 2002, Bill Pechter wrote:
IIRC they're RK03's aka Diablo type 31?
You must have an RK11-C controller...
Right. So say I never find any available RK03s or RK11-Cs. Is there
anything stopping me from putting an RK11-D and some RK05s in the 11/20?
I seem to recall that the 11/20 PSU doesn't provide some voltage needed by
the RK11-D, and that you have to rig something up to provide it yourself.
--
Jeffrey S. Sharp
jss(a)subatomix.com
2 Mar
2 Mar
1:01 a.m.
New subject: RK Stuff (was: Symbolics rescue)
On Fri, 1 Mar 2002, Bill Pechter wrote:
Absolutely not, IIRC it's a straight Unibus backplane.
IIRC they're RK03's aka Diablo type 31?
You must have an RK11-C controller...
Right. So say I never find any available RK03s or RK11-Cs. Is there
anything stopping me from putting an RK11-D and some RK05s in the 11/20?
I seem to recall that the 11/20 PSU doesn't provide some voltage needed by
the RK11-D, and that you have to rig something up to provide it yourself.
I'm not sure... it was probably either + or - 15..._
If you put it in an external ba11-k you should be fine.
(Although I don't know if thats going to hurt the museum quality-ness)
Unfortunately I know some RK05's and DEC TE/TU tape drives that were
scrapped in the late 80's for the aluminum baseplate scrap value.
--
Jeffrey S. Sharp
jss(a)subatomix.com
Bill
--
d|i|g|i|t|a|l had it THEN. Don't you wish you could still buy it now!
bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@ureach.com
9:12 a.m.
New subject: RK Stuff (was: Symbolics rescue)
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8:47 a.m.
New subject: Info / Media needed for HP 9885 floppy drives.
Does anyone have any documentation on the HP 9885 floppy disk system?
Or Media?
I'm interested in the disk format, and interface protocols for using these drives
in HP1000 systems.
1:27 p.m.
New subject: Info / Media needed for HP 9885 floppy drives.
I found this in the 9000 series 300 Configuration Reference Manual:
The 9885M/S are 500 Kbyte 8-in flexible Disc drives. The masster drives are
GPIO interfaced. THey are no longer supplied, having been replaced by the
9895A.
Interface and Command set GPIO, unique
Seek time 267 ms average
Average Latency 83.3 ms
Transfer Rate 23 Kbytes/sec.
Formatted Capacity 499200 (per flex medium)
Bytes per sector 256
Sectors per Track 30
Tracks per surface 67 (plus spares)
Surfaces per drive 1
Format options none
Media 9164-0105 (box of 10)
There are some more details of interfacing to the series 300 Basic and
Pascal systems using a 98622A Option 002 GPIO interface.
I don't have easy access to scan anything; there is more information about
the 9895A in the book.
I have a 9885M, but no manual for it.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
[mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Bob Shannon
Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2002 11:47 AM
To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
Subject: Info / Media needed for HP 9885 floppy drives.
Does anyone have any documentation on the HP 9885 floppy disk system?
Or Media?
I'm interested in the disk format, and interface protocols
for using these drives
in HP1000 systems.
2:44 p.m.
New subject: Info / Media needed for HP 9885 floppy drives.
Bob,
I think I have a service manual for it. I've also got some 8" HP disks
but I don't know if they were written on the 9885 or 9895.
The 9885 uses an option 85 16 bit parallel interface. I have a couple of
them around here (for the 9825). If you've got a 9825 available you might
be able to connect one up and connect a logic analyzer to the
interface/drive junction and figure out what's going on.
Joe
At 02:47 PM 3/2/02 -0500, you wrote:
Does anyone have any documentation on the HP 9885
floppy disk system?
Or Media?
I'm interested in the disk format, and interface protocols for using these
drives
in HP1000 systems.
9:07 a.m.
New subject: Symbolics rescue (RK03/Diablo Type ?31?)
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4:27 p.m.
New subject: Symbolics rescue (RK03/Diablo Type ?31?)
On Sat, 2 Mar 2002, Tony Duell wrote:
If tghey are Diablo 31s....
The spindle motor has a funny speed control where about 90% of the
voltage needed to run at full speed is appled through a power resistor. A
digital circuit decides if the speed is to low and shorts out the resistor. I
think they got 1% speed control with that simple circuit - of course the
spindle has a lot of inertia...
Other funny thing is I think the power supply for the drive is the
same as a Hytype I power supply. The Hytypes use the same encoder as the
drives head positioner... (as did the Singer model 40 disk drive where the
Diablo design presumable came from)
> For nostalgic reasons, I have wanted to
acquire two particular disk drives
> for a PDP-11 of mine... I don't remember what they are called or what brand.
> But - there are two of them in the very far right of the symbolics rescue
> picture at the top of the rack with light brown trim line across the front.
> Can anyone tell me what those are - and if there are any around to be
> obtained? How hard are they to work on? Is the positioner based on patterns
> on the drive or a glass reticule?
The positioner does not depend on any servo patterns on the disk surface
(so it's like an RK05 -- in fact it uses the same media). The position
reference is a 'transformer' made from PCB tracks mounted on top of the
positioner mechanism. One PCB contains the 'primary' and it rotates
relative to the other which contains a pair of 'secondaries. The output
signals are pretty similar to those from the optical transducer in the
RK05, actually.
The positioner itself is a permanent magnet DC motor (!) -- with carbon
brushes. I have no idea how they got it to work, but it does work. The
spindle motor is another permanent magnet DC motor, directly driving the
disk spindle.
The electronics is half a dozen plug-in cards in a backplane which can be
pulled up for access. It's not hard to work on, and the components are
all standard IIRC. I have (somewhere) the service manual. The PSU is
external (+/- 15V IIRC).
Peter Wallace
IIRC they're RK03's aka Diablo type 31?
You must have an RK11-C controller...
Or make a drive select line decoder (a couple of chips IIRC) for the
RK11-D. Those actaully existed commercially in the UK -- Plessey sold
them to use Diablo drives (and similar units) with the RK11-D or their
clone of same.
-tony
3 Mar
3 Mar
8:19 a.m.
New subject: Symbolics rescue (RK03/Diablo Type ?31?)
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2 Mar
2 Mar
12:06 p.m.
New subject: Symbolics rescue (question about picture)
On Fri, 1 Mar 2002, Jay West wrote:
For nostalgic reasons, I have wanted to acquire two
particular disk drives
for a PDP-11 of mine... I don't remember what they are called or what brand.
But - there are two of them in the very far right of the symbolics rescue
picture at the top of the rack with light brown trim line across the front.
Can anyone tell me what those are - and if there are any around to be
obtained? How hard are they to work on? Is the positioner based on patterns
on the drive or a glass reticule?
http://kogs-www.informatik.uni-hamburg.de/~moeller/symbolics-info/3600.html
I'm sure this has been answered already, but those are Diablo 31 drives.
I've got one that came with my Nicolet 1080 machine. I also have an RK05f
which is the DEC OEM version.
On another (old) topic, are you still interested in that HP 7970E tape
drive?
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *
3 Mar
3 Mar
8:24 a.m.
New subject: Symbolics rescue (question about picture)
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8:29 a.m.
New subject: Symbolics rescue (question about picture)
On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Tony Duell wrote:
Duh, sorry. I meant to say RK05.
I've got
one that came with my Nicolet 1080 machine. I also have an RK05f
which is the DEC OEM version.
Eh? The RK05f is the fixed-cartridge version of the DEC RK05 (that's to
say one where the cartridge is only replaced by an engineer). It's logically similar to a Diablo 31, but electronically
it's very different.
And the interface is also similar but not identical.
Hmm, I thought they were rebadged Diablo 31's. Wrong again.
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *
4 Mar
4 Mar
8:28 a.m.
New subject: Symbolics rescue (question about picture)
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8176
days inactive
8180
days old
18 comments
12 participants
participants (12)
-
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
bshannon＠tiac.net -
dancohoe＠oxford.net -
erd_6502＠yahoo.com -
foo＠siconic.com -
jkunz＠unixag-kl.fh-kl.de -
jss＠subatomix.com -
jwest＠classiccmp.org -
pcw＠mesanet.com -
pechter＠bg-tc-ppp1405.monmouth.com -
pechter＠bg-tc-ppp401.monmouth.com -
rigdonj＠cfl.rr.com