26 Jun
2006
26 Jun
'06
5:46 p.m.
I've got a Natsemi IMP-16C CPU + memory board [1] here (plus cardframe, circa
1974) that's packed with gold/ceramic chips - I'm considering off-loading it
though as it's not relevant to the sorts of things I'm interested in. [2]
Question is though, surely if I put it on ebay there's a fair chance that a
gold scrapper will get it rather than a computer enthusiast? What do others
normally do in such situations (or do they sell elsewhere?)
[1] It's in remarkably good condition and likely stands a good chance of
working, if someone wanted a fun project (manuals are on bitsavers). Some
corrosion to the tops of some chips, but seemingly none to the legs, PCB
tracks, IC sockets, other components etc. It's evidently been stored well
throughout its life!
[2] I *badly* need to thin the collection out a bit and free up some space!
cheers,
Jules
26 Jun
26 Jun
8:12 p.m.
Jules,
If you have some idea on the gold value, make your opening bid slightly
higher, and hope for at least one bidder. The gold scrappers are in it
for the money..... if they can't make any money buying your card, they
won't bid.
Chad Fernandez
Michigan, USA
Jules Richardson wrote:
Question is though, surely if I put it on ebay
there's a fair chance
that a gold scrapper will get it rather than a computer enthusiast? What
do others normally do in such situations (or do they sell elsewhere?)
9:40 p.m.
--- C Fernandez <fernande at internet1.net> wrote:
Jules,
If you have some idea on the gold value, make your
opening bid slightly
higher, and hope for at least one bidder. The gold
scrappers are in it
for the money..... if they can't make any money
buying your card, they
won't bid.
This assumes they have the experience to judge the
value correctly. I've watched several bidders snap up
circuit boards for much more than their gold value,
but who were obviously scrappers -- their feedback
history showed gold jewelry, coins, reclamation
chemicals, how-to books, etc. There are apparently
folks out there who are promoting and selling supplies
for small-scale backyard gold recovery, and the people
who are into this don't necessarily know what they are
doing.
--Bill
10:17 p.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: "William Maddox" <wmaddox at pacbell.net>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2006 9:40 PM
Subject: Re: Selling things with lots of gold in them... (natsemi)
--- C Fernandez <fernande at internet1.net>
wrote:
This assumes they have the experience to judge the
value correctly. I've watched several bidders snap up
circuit boards for much more than their gold value,
but who were obviously scrappers -- their feedback
history showed gold jewelry, coins, reclamation
chemicals, how-to books, etc. There are apparently
folks out there who are promoting and selling supplies
for small-scale backyard gold recovery, and the people
who are into this don't necessarily know what they are
doing.
--Bill
How would you even know the gold content in a chip, its not like Intel used
to list it next to voltage and processor speed?
Do these guys have charts for each processor?
11:17 p.m.
How would you
even know the gold content in a chip, its not like Intel used
to list it next to
voltage and processor speed?
Do these guys have charts for each processor?
10:17 p.m.
This assumes they have the experience to judge the
value correctly. I've watched several bidders snap up
circuit boards for much more than their gold value,
but who were obviously scrappers -- their feedback
history showed gold jewelry, coins, reclamation
chemicals, how-to books, etc. There are apparently
folks out there who are promoting and selling supplies
for small-scale backyard gold recovery, and the people
who are into this don't necessarily know what they are
doing.
Yes, but there is the flip side of the gold coin...
Do you (or most others on this list) have the experience to the judge
the value carefully?
Sometimes there can be a lot of gold hidden inside plain jane looking
electronics. Sometimes not.
Also, the gold market is a funny thing, and is very high these days. A
few months ago the Indonesians were so desperate for gold they were
paying well above market value for scrap.
--
Will
10:53 p.m.
--- William Donzelli <wdonzelli at gmail.com> wrote:
Do you (or most others on this list) have the
experience to the judge
the value carefully?
Sometimes there can be a lot of gold hidden inside
plain jane looking
electronics. Sometimes not.
The boards in question were standard DEC M-series,
with vanilla TTL parts. No gold plating except the
edge connector, and whatever was used inside the
plastic DIPs. He paid $50 a board for a few quad or
hex-width boards.
I really couldn't tell you what the gold is worth, but
I have a good idea how much I have to offer for
certain kinds of boards to pry them away from someone
who does.
--Bill
11:22 p.m.
The boards in question were standard DEC M-series,
with vanilla TTL parts. No gold plating except the
edge connector, and whatever was used inside the
plastic DIPs.
Older plastic DIPs? Guess what...
Even with modern SOICs, there are a few bucks per pound in vanilla.
CERDIPs? More than a few bucks per pound.
He paid $50 a board for a few quad or
hex-width boards.
That is quite high - more than scrap. Who knows.
I really couldn't tell you what the gold is worth,
but
I have a good idea how much I have to offer for
certain kinds of boards to pry them away from someone
who does.
It is very good to know what you are up against.
--
Will
11:27 p.m.
If gold is currently $580 or so an ounce purified and in the form of a gold
coin, how much would an ounce of gold scrap in the form of chips and circuit
boards be worth if you tried to sell it? Just wondering how many peoples
hands the stuff has to go through ( and make a profit to) to get to the
shiny gold bar or the gold coin 99.999% purity that is $580 on the spot
market.
27 Jun
27 Jun
2:01 p.m.
I worked with a gold scrapper for a few years. They do know the
value (in gold) of every major chip What they often don''t know it
the resale value of the chips themselves and some are quite valuable.
For a while I saw Intel 8086s going for upwards of $35 from reuse
demand. This can drive card values higher. There is a huge market in
chip resale, one of our competitors got into that and is still going
strong.
there are many reasons to buy cards. $50 a DEC card is way above scrap
value. I have gotten up to $100 for some of my Intel Multibus cards
from a couple of my stocking dealers.
Scrap old DEC Cards (Qbus & Unibus) should bring about $5 to $6 per
pound with the gold price at about $600 (I was getting $2.50-$2.75/lb
at 300). Gold chips add value. Anything pre 1972 has much higher value
as the plating is heavier. Wirewrap adds value. Transistors have gold
and the black round ones have a lot.
HP cards are high value because of the gold plating . However it is
very thin. One rule of the scrapper is bright plating is very thin,
heavy plating is dull, you look for dull. HP cards used to bring $3.50
/lb and up depending on age, probably double now.
There are a lot of speculators out there that don't have a clear idea
of value, buy high, either process it themselves or send it off...and
then think they got ripped off. There is a never ending supply of
these speculators.
If you sell it on ebay and don't want gold speculators, don't use good
pictures that show off the gold.
As too how many hands it goes through, probably not very many. Bobby
used to send 5 to 10 tons of scrap boards to the refiner in a load. We
had to make sure each gaylord had sufficient value (generally over
$2.20 per pound) in it to cover the refining costs which were
substantial and ensure a profit.
One interesting fact is that if you refine your lot rather than
selling it and take your end product in gold and silver you do not
have to pay taxes on it and your refining cost is an expense. We got
back Silver and Gold Coin. I seem to remember the refining cost at
about $1 to $1.25 per pound from a trusted refiner (hard to find)
Hmmm, maybe I should write a book. It was an interesting time. "My
life as a scrapper" from 1989 to 2000.
Paxton
On 6/26/06, Teo Zenios <teoz at neo.rr.com> wrote:
If gold is currently $580 or so an ounce purified and
in the form of a gold
coin, how much would an ounce of gold scrap in the form of chips and circuit
boards be worth if you tried to sell it? Just wondering how many peoples
hands the stuff has to go through ( and make a profit to) to get to the
shiny gold bar or the gold coin 99.999% purity that is $580 on the spot
market.
--
Paxton Hoag
Astoria, OR
USA
4:48 p.m.
HP cards are high value because of the gold plating .
However it is
very thin. One rule of the scrapper is bright plating is very thin,
heavy plating is dull, you look for dull. HP cards used to bring $3.50
/lb and up depending on age, probably double now.
Another place gold is sometimes found is on the pads and vias of
circuits boards ready for surface mount. Yes, the gold gets covered by
the solder paste, but the rifinery does not care! USR Total Control
modems are full of gold for this reason - and it made one scrapper a
very rich man in a few years.
Copper is starting to be an issue wih the boards - there is a decent
amount per board, once you figure in a typical six layer planar. A few
years ago tantalum was the big issue, so boards with Ta caps were very
sought after ($25 a pound for just the caps). Tantalum, however, has
gone back to normal levels now. And then there are those military
grade tantalum capacitors, with solid siver cases...
Anyway, the point of this is that if you see a sizable machine with a
bunch of cards, it may not be a 50 dollar purchase. Add up the value
in all those cards...
One interesting fact is that if you refine your lot
rather than
selling it and take your end product in gold and silver you do not
have to pay taxes on it and your refining cost is an expense. We got
back Silver and Gold Coin. I seem to remember the refining cost at
about $1 to $1.25 per pound from a trusted refiner (hard to find)
Very hard.
--
Will
6:33 p.m.
Tuesday, June 27, 2006, 8:01:05 PM, you wrote:
One interesting fact is that if you refine your lot
rather than
selling it and take your end product in gold and silver you do not
have to pay taxes on it and your refining cost is an expense.
So we end up scrapping our collections as a tax deductible expense?
Won't work over here...
That aside i'm surprised that noone is stepping in with good ideas to
find good homes for unwanted gear on this list.
--
Best regards,
Gerhard mailto:mail at g-lenerz.de
Old SGI Stuff http://sgistuff.g-lenerz.de/
7:19 p.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gerhard Lenerz" <mail at g-lenerz.de>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 6:33 PM
Subject: Re: Selling things with lots of gold in them... (natsemi)
Tuesday, June 27, 2006, 8:01:05 PM, you wrote:
There are not that many people who would pay to ship mainframes or minis
(which would have the most gold scrap value) across the country in one piece
(and most would be on this list). Besides most people tend to die before
they part with the collection, leaving people who are probably not much into
the hobby to dispose of the equipment one way or the other.
I think the whole thread is just to show people what you are up against
money wise when you try to get vintage chips for a working machine that have
a decent amount of gold in them. Coin collectors have the same problem when
the gold,silver, nickel, and copper is worth more then the collector value
of the coin so they all get melted down.
One interesting fact is that if you refine your
lot rather than
selling it and take your end product in gold and silver you do not
have to pay taxes on it and your refining cost is an expense.
So we end up scrapping our collections as a tax deductible expense?
Won't work over here...
That aside i'm surprised that noone is stepping in with good ideas to
find good homes for unwanted gear on this list.
28 Jun
28 Jun
2:24 a.m.
Wednesday, June 28, 2006, 1:19:13 AM, you wrote:
There are not that many people who would pay to ship
mainframes or minis
(which would have the most gold scrap value) across the country in one piece
(and most would be on this list). Besides most people tend to die before
they part with the collection, leaving people who are probably not much into
the hobby to dispose of the equipment one way or the other.
That's why I'm thinking (for quite a while now) about writing down my
will including names of people that might be interested or at least
can help finding someone who is. But as usually, this will be done
"tomorrow".
I think the whole thread is just to show people what
you are up against
money wise when you try to get vintage chips for a working machine that have
a decent amount of gold in them. Coin collectors have the same problem when
the gold,silver, nickel, and copper is worth more then the collector value
of the coin so they all get melted down.
I never thought much about recyclers hunting on public auction
platfoms (such as ebay) as I figured shipping and handling will be
more than the scrap is worth.
--
Best regards,
Gerhard mailto:mail at g-lenerz.de
Old SGI Stuff http://sgistuff.g-lenerz.de/
7:24 a.m.
Teo Zenios wrote:
On top of that, most computer recyclers aren't interested in separating
something potentially useful from something that's obvious scrap - at least
none of the ones I've found in the UK. Even if they can potentially make more
money out of it that way, it seems not worth their time to go outside regular
channels (I get the impression that US places are a lot better for this)
It's why I happened to mention what it was that I had; I was hoping there'd be
a flurry of interest from list members! Otherwise it'll have to be off to ebay
with it (and the VCM, but I expect that 90% of people who look at that also
read this list) and fingers crossed that there's enough interest from
collectors there :-(
That aside
i'm surprised that noone is stepping in with good ideas to
find good homes for unwanted gear on this list.
There are not that many people who would pay to ship mainframes or minis
(which would have the most gold scrap value) across the country in one piece
(and most would be on this list). a decent amount of gold in them. Coin collectors have
the same problem when
the gold,silver, nickel, and copper is worth more then the collector value
of the coin so they all get melted down.
Presumably there's a healthy collector market there though; I mean it's a lot
easier to ship a coin to someone that it is a computer - so providing that
people interested in that hobby are well connected there's probably less of a
problem there.
cheers
Jules
6565
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participants (7)
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fernande＠internet1.net -
innfoclassics＠gmail.com -
julesrichardsonuk＠yahoo.co.uk -
mail＠g-lenerz.de -
teoz＠neo.rr.com -
wdonzelli＠gmail.com -
wmaddox＠pacbell.net