9 Jul
2001
9 Jul
'01
4:20 p.m.
There's been some talk before about adapting those blasted serial mice
which are so common on the PC (all current PC mouses are serial, whether they
connect to an actual RS232 port or to a "PS/2" connector) to a more sensible
quadrature system. Was it Tony or Pete who talked about making a PIC based
adaptor?
Well, here's your chance, according to the Aminet daily:
ps2m.lha hard/hack 191K+Ultimate Amiga PS/2 WheelMouseController
ps2m_example.lha hard/hack 150K+PS/2 WheelMouseController - PCB photos
And look here what turned up today, in relation to the recent LJ III thread:
HP_LaserjetIII.lha text/print 14K+Laserjet III Workbench Driver v1.2
--
En ligne avec Thor 2.6a.
9 Jul
9 Jul
6:16 p.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Iggy Drougge" <optimus(a)canit.se>
To: "Classic computing" <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2001 12:00 AM
Subject: Adapting serial mice to quadrature systems
There's been some talk before about adapting those
blasted serial mice
which are so common on the PC (all current PC mouses are serial,
whether they
connect to an actual RS232 port or to a
"PS/2" connector) to a more
sensible
quadrature system. Was it Tony or Pete who talked
about making a PIC
based
adaptor?
Well, here's your chance, according to the Aminet daily:
ps2m.lha hard/hack 191K+Ultimate Amiga PS/2
WheelMouseController
ps2m_example.lha hard/hack 150K+PS/2
WheelMouseController - PCB
photos
I have several Vaxstations and some DG Aviions. Does this mod make it
able to work on one or the other of these?
DEC mice are obtainable here (if you can afford them, so a cheaper way
is good.) but I can't seem to find anything for my Aviion, DG are
silent/disinterested in anything that old. I have PLENTY of garden
variety serial/PS2 style mice.....
Cheers
Geoff in OZ
11 Jul
11 Jul
6:15 p.m.
Geoff Roberts skrev:
From: "Iggy Drougge"
<optimus(a)canit.se>
ps2m.lha hard/hack 191K+Ultimate Amiga
PS/2
WheelMouseController
ps2m_example.lha hard/hack 150K+PS/2
WheelMouseController - PCB
photos I have several Vaxstations and some DG Aviions. Does
this mod make it
able to work on one or the other of these?
No, because DEC mice are just as stupid as PC ones, using some obscure serial
protocol. Don't know about Aviions.
DEC mice are obtainable here (if you can afford them,
so a cheaper way
is good.) but I can't seem to find anything for my Aviion, DG are
silent/disinterested in anything that old. I have PLENTY of garden
variety serial/PS2 style mice.....
Well, does anyone know if Aviions take quadrature or not?
--
En ligne avec Thor 2.6a.
optimus@dec:foo$ make love
make: don't know how to make love. Stop
9 Jul
9 Jul
6:46 p.m.
Hi,
Most mice actually start off with quatrature output position detectors and
are then converted to serial. I had to replace an Amiga2000 mouse once,
ended up removing the mouse chip and wiring the detector outputs straight
into the amiga mouse port - works fine - no PIC required.
Jason Kyle
PS Hello from New Zealand, anyone else on the list from NZ? Know of any
secret PDP stash in this part of the world :)
At 13:20 10/07/2001, you wrote:
There's been some talk before about adapting those
blasted serial mice
which are so common on the PC (all current PC mouses are serial, whether they
connect to an actual RS232 port or to a "PS/2" connector) to a more sensible
quadrature system. Was it Tony or Pete who talked about making a PIC based
adaptor?
Well, here's your chance, according to the Aminet daily:
ps2m.lha hard/hack 191K+Ultimate Amiga PS/2 WheelMouseController
ps2m_example.lha hard/hack 150K+PS/2 WheelMouseController - PCB photos
And look here what turned up today, in relation to the recent LJ III thread:
HP_LaserjetIII.lha text/print 14K+Laserjet III Workbench Driver v1.2
--
En ligne avec Thor 2.6a.
6:52 p.m.
--- Jason Kyle <jpk(a)jpk.co.nz> wrote:
PS Hello from New Zealand, anyone else on the list
from NZ? Know of any
secret PDP stash in this part of the world :)
No, but I've *been* to New Zealand. I can recommend it.
-ethan
=====
Visit "The Seventh Continent"
http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html
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10 Jul
10 Jul
11:38 a.m.
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2:24 p.m.
Now that you mention it I remember sticking in a buffer IC and replacing
the lead, honestly it's not as difficult as you suggest - certainly not as
much hassle as building a converter box - a least not for a 1-off anyhow.
Jason Kyle
At 08:38 11/07/2001, you wrote:
Hi,
Most mice actually start off with quatrature output position detectors and
Correct....
2:34 p.m.
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11 Jul
11 Jul
6:17 p.m.
Jason Kyle skrev:
Most mice actually start off with quatrature output
position detectors and
are then converted to serial. I had to replace an Amiga2000 mouse once,
ended up removing the mouse chip and wiring the detector outputs straight
into the amiga mouse port - works fine - no PIC required.
True, but like Tony (?) said a while back, most modern PC mice are very
integrated, so separating the quadrature from the serial converter really
isn't feasible, one will have to eventually add some discrete electronics
anyway. Right?
This solution is a bit more lucurious, though, since the PIC will take the
wheel button and turn it into an Amiga-digestable format.
--
En ligne avec Thor 2.6a.
G? med i SUGA, Swedish Usergroup of Amiga!
WWW: http://swedish.usergroup.amiga.tm/
BBS: 08-6582572, telnet://sua.ath.cx:42512
6:59 p.m.
New subject: Signal to noise ratio (Was Re: Adapting serial mice to quadrature systems)
At 15:17 12/07/2001, you wrote:
Jason Kyle wrote:
You and Tony are knocking the addition of a simple hex inverter as a quick
and simple method that nearly anyone with basic electronics skills can use
to make a quadrature output mouse, how many people have PIC programmer
lying around? Yes the PIC based converter is the best solution in the
whole world, yes my approach which works and took about 1 hour in total is
crap and shouldn't be used by anyone. No need to respond, there's enough
noise on this damm list already and i've just added to it. Anybody know of
a classic computing list 1. has a better signal to noise ratio and 2. has a
volume suitable for those who don't have copious spare time.
Most mice actually start off with quatrature
output position detectors and
are then converted to serial. I had to replace an Amiga2000 mouse once,
ended up removing the mouse chip and wiring the detector outputs straight
into the amiga mouse port - works fine - no PIC required.
True, but like Tony (?) said a while back, most modern PC mice are very
integrated, so separating the quadrature from the serial converter really
isn't feasible, one will have to eventually add some discrete electronics
anyway. Right? This solution is a bit more lucurious, though, since
the PIC will take the
wheel button and turn it into an Amiga-digestable format.
--
En ligne avec Thor 2.6a.
G? med i SUGA, Swedish Usergroup of Amiga!
WWW: http://swedish.usergroup.amiga.tm/
BBS: 08-6582572, telnet://sua.ath.cx:42512
12 Jul
12 Jul
9:19 a.m.
New subject: Signal to noise ratio (Was Re: Adapting serial mice to
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3:15 p.m.
New subject: Signal to noise ratio (Was Re: Adapting serial mice to
Tony Duell skrev:
Incidentally, considering a PIC16F84 programmer can be
made using a
couple of standard, cheap, chips linked to a PC printer port, I often
wonder why so few hackers seem to have one....
Any pointers to a nice project?
How about GALs or PALs?
> noise on this damm list already and i've just
added to it. Anybody know =
Actaully, I think this is 100% on-topic. It comes under
'restoration
techniques' or something like that. It is (and should be) OK to talk here
about modifying or converting modern parts to work with classic computers.
Very much agreed. As long as it doesn't turn into a hex inverter vs. PIC flame
war, which this seems to be heading towards. =)
--
En ligne avec Thor 2.6a.
Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build
bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the universe trying to produce
bigger and better idiots. So far, the universe is winning.
-- Rick Cook, Mission Manager, NASA Mars Pathfinder Project
5:20 p.m.
New subject: Signal to noise ratio (Was Re: Adapting serial mice to
GAL and PAL programming is quite on-topic, but will offer some real challenges,
as the device manufacturers jealously guard some of the programming algorithms.
I do, somewhere, have spec's for two GAL devices that were new in 1985, when I
needed to be able to erase them if my device was subjected to various modes of
tampering. Lattice did, indeed publish a spec for programming and erasing their
16V8 and 20V80 devices.
Programming spec's are difficult to find, but, if you find 'em, they're
probably
not terribly difficult to implement. It's somewhat risky, as one reason for the
quick upsurge in EEPROM based parts was that they weren't as easy to misprogram,
which often happened with bipolar PALs even when they were just being verified.
If you find programming algorithms, I suspect that there'll be several folks on
this list interested in the programming spec's. Current devices are, in many
cases, programmable "in situ" so there's no need for a device-specific
programmer. Unfortunately there are precious FEW in-system programmable
PAL-compatibles.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Iggy Drougge" <optimus(a)canit.se>
To: "Tony Duell" <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 6:15 PM
Subject: Re: Signal to noise ratio (Was Re: Adapting serial mice to
Tony Duell skrev:
Incidentally, considering a PIC16F84 programmer
can be made using a
couple of standard, cheap, chips linked to a PC printer port, I often
wonder why so few hackers seem to have one....
Any pointers to a nice project?
How about GALs or PALs?
> noise on this damm list already and i've
just added to it. Anybody know =
Actaully, I think this is 100% on-topic. It comes
under 'restoration
techniques' or something like that. It is (and should be) OK to talk here
about modifying or converting modern parts to work with classic computers.
Very much agreed. As long as it doesn't turn into a hex inverter vs. PIC flame
war, which this seems to be heading towards. =)
--
En ligne avec Thor 2.6a.
Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build
bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the universe trying to produce
bigger and better idiots. So far, the universe is winning.
-- Rick Cook, Mission Manager, NASA Mars Pathfinder Project
13 Jul
13 Jul
9:16 a.m.
New subject: Signal to noise ratio (Was Re: Adapting serial mice to
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10 Jul
10 Jul
10:59 a.m.
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1:09 p.m.
Tony,
Here's a URL that lists all the Aminet mirrors:
http://www.dtr.fr/homepage/gcornu/aminet_web_sites.html
ps2m.lha
hard/hack 191K+Ultimate Amiga PS/2 WheelMouseController
ps2m_example.lha hard/hack 150K+PS/2 WheelMouseController - PCB photos
A few questions....
1) What is the URL to get these files from? 2) What is ps2m.lha? the microcontroller program?
schematics? what?
The archives are likely just the directions and/or schematics
for doing the conversion.
3) How do I unpack a .lha file on a linux box. Is there
any way to get it
as a .zip or .tar.gz file?
LHA is the preferred archiving method on Amiga's, or at least
it was when I was using them. Other systems, such as the Mac
(Stuffit Expander) and LHA under DOS can deal with the Aminet
archives but I don't know if there's one for Linux.
Jeff
--
Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems:
Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757
4:32 p.m.
It was thus said that the Great Jeff Hellige once stated:
LHA is the preferred archiving method on Amiga's, or at least
it was when I was using them. Other systems, such as the Mac
(Stuffit Expander) and LHA under DOS can deal with the Aminet
archives but I don't know if there's one for Linux.
There is. RedHat comes with a package with LHA, UNZip and other
compression/decompression utilities. Well, at least through RedHat 6.2.
[spc]linus:/home/spc/source/apache-modules>lha
LHarc for UNIX V 1.02 Copyright(C) 1989 Y.Tagawa
LHx for MSDOS V C2.01 Copyright(C) 1990 H.Yoshizaki
LHx(arc) for OSK V 2.01 Modified 1990 Momozou
LHa for UNIX V 1.00 Copyright(C) 1992 Masaru Oki
usage: lha [-]{axelvudmcp}[qvnfodizg012][w=<dir>] archive_file [file...]
commands: options:
a Add(or replace) to archive q quiet
x,e EXtract from archive v verbose
l,v List / Verbose List n not execute
u Update newer files to archive f force (over write at extract)
d Delete from archive t FILES are TEXT file
m Move to archive (means 'ad') o use LHarc compatible method (a/u)
c re-Construct new archive w=<dir> specify extract directory (x/e)
p Print to STDOUT from archive d delete FILES after (a/u/c)
t Test file CRC in archive i ignore directory path (x/e)
z files not compress (a/u)
g [Generic] format (for compatibility)
0/1/2 header level (a/u)
e TEXT code convert from/to EUC
[spc]linus:/home/spc/source/apache-modules>
-spc (I have an Amiga so I thought it'd be prudent to install it)
11 Jul
11 Jul
6:27 p.m.
Tony Duell skrev:
>
> There's been some talk before about adapting those blasted serial mice
> which are so common on the PC (all current PC mouses are serial, whether
> they connect to an actual RS232 port or to a "PS/2" connector) to a more
> sensible quadrature system. Was it Tony or Pete who talked about making a
> PIC based adaptor?
I know I've suggested it a couple of times. Pete
might have done so as well.
> Well, here's your chance, according to the
Aminet daily:
>
> ps2m.lha hard/hack 191K+Ultimate Amiga PS/2 WheelMouseController
> ps2m_example.lha hard/hack 150K+PS/2 WheelMouseController - PCB photos
A few questions....
1) What is the URL to get these files from?
Depends on where you are. I use the mirror at http://ftp.sunet.se/~aminet/ ,
others might prefer to use an FTP client or ADT, the Aminet download tool.
2) What is ps2m.lha? the microcontroller program?
schematics? what?
Haven't bothered too look since I'm not into such advanced electronics as
PICs or whatever might be involved. Besides, I'm content with my mouse, and if
I need another one, I'll just slaughter a PC bus mouse. =)
3) How do I unpack a .lha file on a linux box. Is there
any way to get it
as a .zip or .tar.gz file?
Using LhA, of course. It's available for every OS in existence.
Some people might know it as the older LhArc or LZH.
BTW, there's a URL in the readme:
http://rdc.euro.ru/ps2m
--
En ligne avec Thor 2.6a.
Computers are not intelligent. They only think they are.
8412
days inactive
8416
days old
17 comments
8 participants
participants (8)
-
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
edick＠idcomm.com -
ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com -
geoffrob＠stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au -
jhellige＠earthlink.net -
jpk＠jpk.co.nz -
optimus＠canit.se -
spc＠conman.org