15 Sep
1997
15 Sep
'97
5:52 p.m.
I've got one of these too - beautiful computers, wonderfully engineered.
Opening up the case I saw one problem the four
batteries need replacement,
and are starting to corrode. Any idea's on where replacements can be found?
Always check for this. A very common problem is that the batteries corrode
and kill the motherboard.
The button above the keyboard jack doesn't seem to
function properly, it
lights up, but I can't turn the computer off using it, it simply resets it.
Are you running it as a Mac XL or as a Lisa? Again, this is a common
problem with the XL OS, and occurs on mine. Although not wise, I found
switching it off at the power supply was the only solution. It does seem
to work while booting up though - just not while in the OS.
However, if I go to the menu, and let it sit for a
little while the light
comes on solid on the profile drive. I can then tell it to start from that
disk, then the screen goes dark, the profile disk whirrs a couple times
(the disk is nice and quite, moreso than a lot of more modern drives).
Note that it takes a while for the ProFile to reach operating speed. Until
the red light is on solidly, do not start your Lisa - wait until you get a
solid light before turning it on. That should solve at least some of your
problems.
Are there disk images of the boot disks available
anywhere? I gather there
is a program on the Apple site
ftp://mirror.apple.com/mirrors/info-mac/disk/dart-153.hqx that will let you
create them, but I haven't had any luck searching. I would almost assume
they are on a Apple server somewhere since pre-System 7.1 MacOS, and the OS
for the Apple II is there.
You should be able to get them, but I am afraid I know not where. However I
had heard that Sun Remarketing had the OS for the Lisa, including the
original Office 7/7, or whatever it was called. You should perhaps contact
them.
Adam.
15 Sep
15 Sep
6:10 p.m.
Adam Jenkins wrote:
I've got one of these too - beautiful computers,
wonderfully engineered.
Once the batteries start to corrode and leak, the area needs to be cleaned
AND neutralized with something acidic in order to prevent problems later
on. I have seen a number of cases where the battery leaked and the area was
cleaned up without neutralizing. Looks fine until a couple of years later
when things start getting flaky and finally die. A close look will usually
show the area where there USED to be traces! I usually use Muriatic Acid
as it does a good job of neutralizing without damaging the circuitry or the
solder joints. BTW, I only use a few drops straight muriatic acid (= 33%
HCl) and after all the foaming stops, rinse it well with water trying to
only get water on the affected area (makes drying easier). I use tap water
but DI or distilled water is best since it won't leave a residue when it
evaporates. A thorough drying follows.
Opening up the case I saw one problem the four
batteries need
replacement,
and are starting to corrode. Any idea's on
where replacements can be
found?
Always check for this. A very common problem is that the batteries corrode
and kill the motherboard. 
16 Sep
16 Sep
6:27 p.m.
New subject: Leaky Batteries (was: Lisa 2/5 Startup Problems)
Adam Jenkins wrote:
Once the batteries start to corrode and leak, the area needs to be cleaned
AND neutralized with something acidic in order to prevent problems later
on. I have seen a number of cases where the battery leaked and the area was
cleaned up without neutralizing. Looks fine until a couple of years later
when things start getting flaky and finally die. A close look will usually
show the area where there USED to be traces! I usually use Muriatic Acid
as it does a good job of neutralizing without damaging the circuitry or the
solder joints. BTW, I only use a few drops straight muriatic acid (= 33%
HCl) and after all the foaming stops, rinse it well with water trying to
only get water on the affected area (makes drying easier). I use tap water
but DI or distilled water is best since it won't leave a residue when it
evaporates. A thorough drying follows.
This might be a stupid question, but would Baking Soda work for this? I
used to work as an Electrician, and had to deal with an UPS that used lead
acid batteries, we always used Baking Soda to neutralize the acid. Maybe
I'm totally off center on this one, wouldn't surprise me.
In any case where can one find Muriatic Acid? It's not one of the Acid's
I've heard of.
Zane
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator |
| healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast |
| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Mac Programmer |
+----------------------------------+---------------------------+
| For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| and the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. |
| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ |
6:40 p.m.
New subject: Leaky Batteries (was: Lisa 2/5 Startup Problems)
Zane H. Healy wrote:
Muriatic Acid is commonly used for ph adjustment on swimming pools and at
least out here in California, we can get it at the larger hardware stores.
I've also used some type of liquid flux that was used in plumbing work that
was mostly Muriatic Acid and it seemed to work well. Also, Muriatic Acid is
just a 33% dilution of Hydrochloric Acid (HCl) according to the labels I've
read. I might add that a couple of ounces of the stuff lasted me about 5
years.
Since the residue from the batterys is alkaline in nature, Baking Soda
wouldn't work as it is also somewhat alkaline.
Once the
batteries start to corrode and leak, the area needs to be
cleaned
AND neutralized with something acidic in order to
prevent problems later
This might be a stupid question, but would Baking Soda work for this? I
used to work as an Electrician, and had to deal with an UPS that used lead
acid batteries, we always used Baking Soda to neutralize the acid. Maybe
I'm totally off center on this one, wouldn't surprise me.
In any case where can one find Muriatic Acid? It's not one of the Acid's
I've heard of. 
17 Sep
17 Sep
12:25 a.m.
New subject: Leaky Batteries (was: Lisa 2/5 Startup Problems)
On Tue, 16 Sep 1997 23:40:01 -0700 Marvin <marvin(a)rain.org> writes:
Zane H. Healy wrote:
later
Hi,
You might also want to try a product like "CLR" (calcium, lime and rust
remover), it and products like it contain glycolic and phosphoric acids.
It works a little slower than Muiratic acid, but it's much safer. BTW:
Phosphoric acid finds its' way into many of our food products from cola
drinks to bread.
Regards,
David Quackenbush
dhq(a)juno.com
Once the
batteries start to corrode and leak, the area needs to be
cleaned
>AND neutralized with something acidic in order to prevent problems
This might be a stupid question, but would Baking Soda work for
this? I
used to work as an Electrician, and had to deal
with an UPS that
used lead
acid batteries, we always used Baking Soda to neutralize the acid.
Maybe
I'm totally off center on this one,
wouldn't surprise me.
In any case where can one find Muriatic Acid? It's not one of the
Acid's
I've heard of.
Muriatic Acid is commonly used for ph adjustment on swimming pools and
at
least out here in California, we can get it at the larger hardware
stores.
I've also used some type of liquid flux that was used in plumbing work
that
was mostly Muriatic Acid and it seemed to work well. Also, Muriatic
Acid is
just a 33% dilution of Hydrochloric Acid (HCl) according to the labels
I've
read. I might add that a couple of ounces of the stuff lasted me about
5
years.
Since the residue from the batterys is alkaline in nature, Baking Soda
wouldn't work as it is also somewhat alkaline.
3:39 a.m.
New subject: Leaky Batteries (was: Lisa 2/5 Startup Problems)
David H Quackenbush wrote:
Hi,
You might also want to try a product like "CLR" (calcium, lime and rust
remover), it and products like it contain glycolic and phosphoric acids.
It works a little slower than Muiratic acid, but it's much safer. BTW:
Phosphoric acid finds its' way into many of our food products from cola
drinks to bread.
I'm not familar with glycolic acid but something in the back of my mind says
that phosphoric acid will attack either the copper or the solder. My
primary concern is to remove the battery residue without doing any
additional harm to the circuit board or components. Since you mention
safety, I am *assuming* in this whole discussion that the user if familar
with how to handle this stuff safely. The reasons I only use *drops* of the
muriatic acid are 1) you don't need much more than a few drops to neutralize
the residue, and 2) it is safer to use since if spilt, a small amount of
water will dilute it to the point where it is not hazardous. Good point to
mention though!
12:34 p.m.
New subject: Leaky Batteries (was: Lisa 2/5 Startup Problems)
On Wed, 17 Sep 1997 08:39:02 -0700 Marvin <marvin(a)rain.org> writes:
David H Quackenbush wrote:
I don't think that the concentration of phosphoric acid in these
cleaning products presents any danger to PC boards, they are also used to
de-lime drip and perc coffee makers. Usually white vinegar will suffice
or even a can of Coke or Pepsi, but then you have to wash the board with
water to get the sugar off of it. :)
Muriatic acid is a good choice when the other products don't work, it's
inexpensive and as you said; easy to dilute and won't gobble up the other
parts on the board.
Regards, David Q. dhq(a)juno.com
Hi,
You might also want to try a product like "CLR" (calcium, lime and
rust
remover), it and products like it contain
glycolic and phosphoric
acids.
It works a little slower than Muiratic acid, but
it's much safer.
BTW:
Phosphoric acid finds its' way into many of
our food products from
cola
drinks to bread.
I'm not familar with glycolic acid but something in the back of my
mind says
that phosphoric acid will attack either the copper or the solder. My
primary concern is to remove the battery residue without doing any
additional harm to the circuit board or components. Since you mention
safety, I am *assuming* in this whole discussion that the user if
familar
with how to handle this stuff safely. The reasons I only use *drops*
of the
muriatic acid are 1) you don't need much more than a few drops to
neutralize
the residue, and 2) it is safer to use since if spilt, a small amount
of
water will dilute it to the point where it is not hazardous. Good
point to
mention though!
15 Sep
15 Sep
9:50 p.m.
Are there disk
images of the boot disks available anywhere? I gather there
is a program on the Apple site
ftp://mirror.apple.com/mirrors/info-mac/disk/dart-153.hqx that will let you
create them, but I haven't had any luck searching. I would almost assume
they are on a Apple server somewhere since pre-System 7.1 MacOS, and the OS
for the Apple II is there.
You should be able to get them, but I am afraid I know not where. However I
had heard that Sun Remarketing had the OS for the Lisa, including the
original Office 7/7, or whatever it was called. You should perhaps contact
them.
16 Sep
16 Sep
6:21 p.m.
The button
above the keyboard jack doesn't seem to function properly, it
lights up, but I can't turn the computer off using it, it simply resets it.
Are you running it as a Mac XL or as a Lisa? Again, this is a common
problem with the XL OS, and occurs on mine. Although not wise, I found
switching it off at the power supply was the only solution. It does seem
to work while booting up though - just not while in the OS. Note that it takes a while for the ProFile to reach
operating speed. Until
the red light is on solidly, do not start your Lisa - wait until you get a
solid light before turning it on. That should solve at least some of your
problems.
Yes, apparently it should even be given a little while after going solid.
I don't know for sure, as I've not powered it on with everything working
right yet.
Zane
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator |
| healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast |
| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Mac Programmer |
+----------------------------------+---------------------------+
| For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| and the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. |
| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ |
9958
days inactive
9959
days old
8 comments
5 participants
participants (5)
-
adam＠merlin.net.au -
dhq＠juno.com -
healyzh＠ix.netcom.com -
jruschme＠exit109.com -
marvin＠rain.org