18 May
2004
18 May
'04
5:52 a.m.
Another item that will be leaving my collection (mostly because I never
did anything with it) is a DECmate II - the micro version of the PDP-8
(Intersil 6120 based, I think). A couple of questions, as I would like to
test the thing out before I offer it to anyone.
1) Whay kind of video is "video"? Some sort of odd tube? Whatever it is, I
don't have it so I am hoping the box supports a dumb terminal.
2) Will I boot this up from a dumb terminal (VT100, my guess)? What are
the specifics?
This machine is in decent condition, with an RX50 and a hard disk of some
sort. I have no manuals.
William Donzelli
aw288(a)osfn.org
18 May
18 May
5:58 a.m.
>>>> "William" == William
Donzelli <aw288(a)osfn.org> writes:
William> Another item that will be leaving my collection (mostly
William> because I never did anything with it) is a DECmate II - the
William> micro version of the PDP-8 (Intersil 6120 based, I think). A
William> couple of questions, as I would like to test the thing out
William> before I offer it to anyone.
William> 1) Whay kind of video is "video"? Some sort of odd tube?
William> Whatever it is, I don't have it so I am hoping the box
William> supports a dumb terminal.
Should just be plain old TV-compatible monochrome video.
Does it have a 15-pin connector for the video? If so, it may want a
VR201 tube, the same used with the Pro. That's still only plain old
video but the connector also carries power and keyboard input. The
pinouts would be in the Pro tech manual, which is online at bitsavers.
paul
6:02 a.m.
Does it have a 15-pin connector for the video?
Yes.
If so, it may want a
VR201 tube, the same used with the Pro. That's still only plain old
video but the connector also carries power and keyboard input. The
pinouts would be in the Pro tech manual, which is online at bitsavers.
OK, thanks. I don't have either the VR or the keyboard, so I am still
hoping for dumb terminal support.
William Donzelli
aw288(a)osfn.org
6:30 a.m.
>>>> "William" == William
Donzelli <aw288(a)osfn.org> writes:
> Does it have a 15-pin connector for the video?
William> Yes.
> If so, it may want a VR201 tube, the same used
with the Pro.
> That's still only plain old video but the connector also carries
> power and keyboard input. The pinouts would be in the Pro tech
> manual, which is online at bitsavers.
William> OK, thanks. I don't have either the VR or the keyboard, so I
William> am still hoping for dumb terminal support.
In the Pro technical manual you'll find where the video appears, so
plug that into a plain old TV monitor that accepts composite video.
(You could plug it into the yellow jack on your TV or VCR, that's
composite video. It's US spec video, I believe, so that wouldn't work
in Europe...)
The keyboard would be an LK201; you could make a patch cord for it.
Without an LK201 things would get tricky; it's certainly possible to
emulate that keyboard but it doesn't look much like anything else.
(Then again, it speaks 4800 baud async protocol, so the signaling is
easy, and the protocol is documented.)
paul
1:19 p.m.
On Tue, May 18, 2004 at 10:52:01AM -0400, William Donzelli wrote:
Another item that will be leaving my collection
(mostly because I never
did anything with it) is a DECmate II - the micro version of the PDP-8
(Intersil 6120 based, I think). A couple of questions, as I would like to
test the thing out before I offer it to anyone.
1) Whay kind of video is "video"? Some sort of odd tube? Whatever it is, I
don't have it so I am hoping the box supports a dumb terminal.
The video port connects to a DEC VR201 as used with Rainbows, Pro 3xx
machines, etc. The cable carries +12VDC to power the monitor, NTSC
composite video, and the LK201 keyboard signals from the jack in the back
of the monitor down the CPU.
You could make up your own DA-15 cable with a 4-pin jack (telephone-handset
type, not RJ-11) for an LK201 keyboard, and an RCA video out for a
standard monochrome monitor of the style used with Apple IIs, etc,
or you could try to locate a VR201.
2) Will I boot this up from a dumb terminal (VT100, my
guess)? What are
the specifics?
I have never tried it. I have no idea if it will work. I don't have
enough VR201s to go around to all of my DEC boxes of the era, but I
do have enough for one of each type at a time, so it's never been an
issue for me.
-ethan
--
Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 18-May-2004 22:10 Z
South Pole Station
PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -43.4 F (-41.9 C) Windchill -109.3 F (-78.5 C)
APO AP 96598 Wind 21.9 kts Grid 026 Barometer 684.8 mb (10444. ft)
Ethan.Dicks(a)amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html
4:48 p.m.
You could make up your own DA-15 cable with a 4-pin
jack (telephone-handset
type, not RJ-11) for an LK201 keyboard, and an RCA video out for a
standard monochrome monitor of the style used with Apple IIs, etc,
or you could try to locate a VR201.
I could, but this is a "minimal effort" project. I just want to push this
thing out the door, with the future buyer having some sort of clue as of
condition.
Still, cramming some wires in the connector and feeding that to a mono
tube should be easy enough.
Thanks to all with the info, so far!
William Donzelli
aw288(a)osfn.org
7:24 p.m.
Still, cramming some wires in the connector and
feeding that to a mono
tube should be easy enough.
Thanks to all with the info, so far!
Here's the info on my Rainbow monitor cable/adapter (not a DEC product!).
The DECmate should be much the same -- take the DA15S I've shown and wire
the 'mono' and 'mono gnd' pins to a suitahle composite monitor. If you
have an LK201, then wire up that connector too. Ignore the colour
signals, etc.
-tony
A universal DEC Rainbow video cable
-----------------------------------
This cable allows almost all possible monitor combinations to be used
with the Rainbow (see below).
Connections :
-------------
Rainbow end (DA15-S)
1 >----------+---------+-- Blue Gnd
9 >-------O---------O-- Blue
2 >----------+---------+-- Green Gnd
10 >-------O---------O-- Green
3 >----------+---------+-- Red Gnd
11 >-------O---------O-- Red
4 >----------+---------+-- Mono Gnd
12 >-------O---------O-- Mono
5 >----+
13 >-+ +------------ Power Gnd
6 >----------+------------ Key Gnd
14 >-------------------- From Key
7 >----------------------- Power 12V
15 >-------------------- To Key
8 >----------------------- Key 12V
Box-mounted connectors :
VR201 (DA15-P)
1 o
9 o
2 o
10 o
3 o
11 o
4 o-----------+--------+--- Mono Gnd
12 o--------O--------O--- Mono
5 o-------+---------------- Power Gnd
13 o |
6 o-------+---------------- Key Gnd
14 o--------------------- From Key
7 o------------------------ Power 12V
15 o--------------------- To Key
8 o------------------------ Key 12V
Monitor BNCs :
Red
( o )--------- Red Gnd
|
+----------- Red
Green
( o )--------- Green Gnd
|
+----------- Green
Blue
( o )--------- Blue Gnd
|
+----------- Blue
Mono
( o )--------- Mono Gnd
|
+----------- Mono
LK201 keyboard (RJ11-- front face view)
-------
| |
----- -----
| |
| |
| |
-- ^ ^ ^ ^--
| | | |
From Key -----+ | | +----- To Key
Key 12V----------+ +-------- Key Gnd
Components :
------------
DA15S socket + hood (to fit Rainbow video connector)
DA15P plug + jackposts (for VR201 connection)
4 off 75 Ohm BNC sockets (for monitor connections). You could use other
connectors, like RCA phono, but BNC are standard.
RJ11 socket, chassis mounting (for LK201 keyboard). Chassis mounting
sockets of this type are very hard to find. I ended up making a bracket
to clamp a PCB-mounting one to the panel
Metal box of a suitable size to hold the above connectors (apart from the
DA15S).
1m cable. At least 4 75 Ohm screened cores and 6 single wires. I used a
'unversal SCART cable' which has 6 75 ohm screened cores (I simply
ignored 2 of them), a 4 way screened cable (I used this for the 4
keyboard connections) and 4 other wires (2 in parallel for each of Power
12V and Power Gnd).
Possible monitor combinations :
-------------------------------
1) VR201 only
This is pretty useless, but you can connect a VR201 mono monitor using
the DEC lead to the DA15P on the box. Connect the LK201 keyboard to
either the VR201 or the RJ11 on the box.
2) Standard composite mono monitor
Connect monitor input to 'mono' BNC on the box. Connect LK201 to the RJ11
on the box. This works just like a VR201, but you can use any monitor
3) VR201 and separate mono graphics monitor
Connect VR201 to DA15P. Connect LK201to either RJ11 on the box or to
VR201. Connect second (composite) monitor to the 'green' BNC. You can use
the dual monitor driver for GSX and have text on the VR201 and graphics on
the second monitor
4) Two composite mono monitors
Connect one to 'mono' BNC, other to 'green' BNC. Connect LK201 to RJ11 on
box. Using the dual monitor driver, you get text on the first monitor and
graphics on the second monitor
5) RGB (sync-on-green) colour monitor (e.g. VR241)
Connect monitor inputs to BNCs as follows :
Red - Red
Green - Mono
Blue - Blue.
Connect LK201 to RJ11 on box. This gives the standard DEC color monitor
connections giving green text and colour graphics using the colour
monitor driver
6) RGB monitor and VR201
Connect VR201 to DA15P on box. Connect LK201 to RJ11 on box. Connect
color monitor as follows
Red - Red
Green - Green
Blue - Blue
This gives separate text and colour graphics displays when used with the
dual monitor driver
7) RGB monitor and composite mono monitor
Connect mono monitor input to 'mono' BNC. Connect LK201 to RJ11. Connect
colour monitor as follows
Red - Red
Green - Green
Blue - Blue
This gives separate text and colour graphics displays when used with the
dual monitor driver
William Donzelli
aw288(a)osfn.org
19 May
19 May
4:41 a.m.
>>>> "William" == William
Donzelli <aw288(a)osfn.org> writes:
> You could make up your own DA-15 cable with a
4-pin jack
> (telephone-handset type, not RJ-11) for an LK201 keyboard, and an
> RCA video out for a standard monochrome monitor of the style used
> with Apple IIs, etc, or you could try to locate a VR201.
William> I could, but this is a "minimal effort" project. I just want
William> to push this thing out the door, with the future buyer
William> having some sort of clue as of condition.
William> Still, cramming some wires in the connector and feeding that
William> to a mono tube should be easy enough.
Don't know about a DECmate, but if you did that with a PRO, you'd
probably run into a selftest failure due to missing keyboard. If so,
you'd probably still get at least a display on the screen, or perhaps
some selftest status LEDs on the back of the box changing from their
powerup default (which should be "all on" if the DECmate follows DEC
convention).
So you don't have to go dig, the video pins are:
4 -- mono return (common)
5, 6 -- ground
12 -- mono video
13 -- monitor present L (i.e., ground this pin)
The full description is in the Pro technical manual, volume 1; I took
the above from page 5-130.
paul
18 May
18 May
2:32 p.m.
Another item that will be leaving my collection (mostly because I never
did anything with it) is a DECmate II - the micro version of the PDP-8
(Intersil 6120 based, I think). A couple of questions, as I would like to
test the thing out before I offer it to anyone.
1) Whay kind of video is "video"? Some sort of odd tube? Whatever it is, I
The DA15 video connector on the DECmate II (and Rainbow, Pro 3xx series)
carries the signals for an LK201 keyboard (the one used with the VT220,
etc terminal), a 12V power output to run a mono monitor, and composite
video. (RS170 -- I think that's the right standard -- US TV anyway). The
Pro and 'bow support a colour video card (I have no idea if the DECmate
does), and then you also get RGB (sync-on-green) video on this connector.
I can find a pinout if you're interested.
don't have it so I am hoping the box supports a
dumb terminal.
2) Will I boot this up from a dumb terminal (VT100, my guess)? What are
the specifics?
AFAIK you can't use a dumb terminal on a DECmate.
-tony
4:12 p.m.
On Wed, May 19, 2004 at 12:32:54AM +0100, Tony Duell wrote:
The DA15 video connector on the DECmate II (and
Rainbow, Pro 3xx series)
carries the signals for an LK201 keyboard (the one used with the VT220,
etc terminal), a 12V power output to run a mono monitor, and composite
video. (RS170 -- I think that's the right standard -- US TV anyway).
Yes... RS-170.
The Pro and 'bow support a colour video card (I
have no idea if the DECmate
does), and then you also get RGB (sync-on-green) video on this connector.
Not the DECmate - mono only.
What _I'd_ like to have in my DECmate-II is the RX02 interface.
BTW, if your hard drive craps out, it's possible with "ordinary" DECmate
utility floppies (i.e., no "Field Service Kit" required) to format up a
bog-standard ST-225 and throw it in there. I did it about ten years ago,
and filled mine up with RX50s I copied from Charlie Lasner.
-ethan
--
Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 19-May-2004 01:00 Z
South Pole Station
PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -46.3 F (-43.5 C) Windchill -121.6 F (-85.40 C)
APO AP 96598 Wind 20.8 kts Grid 020 Barometer 684.1 mb (10472. ft)
Ethan.Dicks(a)amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html
5:42 p.m.
I'm not sure, but if it is like the pro and vaxstations, etc. there should
be dumb terminal support but would require a special cable/adapter that is
rs323 with a couple pins tied together to define it as a console. If you
have a H8571-b mmj adapter I think that works.
if you can't find/make a console cable, let me know and perhaps I can look
it up the weekend.
of course you can always use the cpu to make one of bob's SBC6120s if the
computer is bad...
Pavl_
Another item that will be leaving my collection
(mostly because I never
did anything with it) is a DECmate II - the micro version of the PDP-8
(Intersil 6120 based, I think). A couple of questions, as I would like
to test the thing out before I offer it to anyone.
1) Whay kind of video is "video"? Some sort of odd tube? Whatever it
is, I don't have it so I am hoping the box supports a dumb terminal.
2) Will I boot this up from a dumb terminal (VT100, my guess)? What are
the specifics?
This machine is in decent condition, with an RX50 and a hard disk of
some sort. I have no manuals.
William Donzelli
aw288(a)osfn.org
8:29 p.m.
On Tue, May 18, 2004 at 07:42:18PM -0700, pzachary(a)sasquatch.com wrote:
I'm not sure, but if it is like the pro and
vaxstations, etc. there should
be dumb terminal support but would require a special cable/adapter that is
rs323 with a couple pins tied together to define it as a console. If you
have a H8571-b mmj adapter I think that works.
While that's true for uVAXen, I don't think that's true with DECmates.
of course you can always use the cpu to make one of
bob's SBC6120s if the
computer is bad...
That's what I did for my first SBC6120 - borrowed the CPU from my DECmate-II
(since it's socketed there, and soldered on the DECmate III(+) boards).
Since then, I've picked up a spare DM-III board for $20 and borrowed the
CPU from _it_ (leaving both the CPU and the DM-III board intact). Given
the cost of a new CPU chip, this was cost effective, if you ignore the
cost of my time to carefully desolder the chip and install a machined-pin
socket.
-ethan
Not so strangely enough, to tie this in with another current thread, I
picked up the DM-II about 12 years ago at the Dayton Hamvention for,
IIRC, $35, with keyboard and VR-201. I even got the seller to deliver
it to my car - a coup, if you've been to Dayton and seen how far we park
from the site). You used to be able to get VR-201s at
Dayton for $3-$6,
but they've more or less vanished from the tables these days.
--
Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 19-May-2004 05:20 Z
South Pole Station
PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -48.7 F (-44.9 C) Windchill -115.7 F (-82.09 C)
APO AP 96598 Wind 13.2 kts Grid 019 Barometer 682.9 mb (10516. ft)
Ethan.Dicks(a)amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html
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days inactive
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ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
aw288＠osfn.org -
dickset＠amanda.spole.gov -
pkoning＠equallogic.com -
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