24 Jan
1999
24 Jan
'99
2:01 p.m.
Since the subject has gained so much discussion, I shall take the suggestion
and
produce the guide. Such an endeavor takes time, so don't expect a release
too
soon. Nevertheless, I am now open to taking first orders. :) :)
:)
As for the rule itself, I agree that ten years after last manufacture
implies classic
status - that is, the item is an antique. However, that requirement of time
is not
necessarily the most prudent for some items. In some cases, classic status
might
be applied to an item available only two or three years ago. Such cases
might be
rare but, justified by the circumstances.
I suggest also that classic status might be conferred upon a measure of the
relative
throughput of the computing instrument at hand. That is, when the device
performs
at a rate of two percent or less than the performance of minimal systems
sold in
the marketplace (at the time of the comparison), then such a system can be
termed
a classic.
William R. Buckley
24 Jan
24 Jan
2:14 p.m.
*snip*
I suggest also that classic status might be conferred
upon a measure of the i
relative throughput of the computing instrument at hand. That is, when the i
device performs at a rate of two percent or less than the performance of
minimal systems sold in the marketplace (at the time of the comparison),
then such a system can be termed a classic.
William R. Buckley
A couple problems with this. First, someone on here who's name I forget has
a Cray he's setting up. It's more than 10 years old, but it's NOT 2 percent
or less of the modern minimal system.
And of course (you knew this was coming) the 2 percent rule would include
anything running a Microsoft operating system when compared to identical
hardware running anything else. :)
Seriously, a classic computer is a computer more valuable for what it IS than
the work it can do. It's a subjective definition to be sure, but come on,
people collect these machines because they LIKE them. The definition needs to
be as subjective as the desire.
Speaking of classics, I'm hopefully going to get my hands on a Kaypro 10 in
the near future. No idea if the hard disk is alive. Does anyone know if the
disk in that machine is a full height mfm? I just happen to have a 40 meg
replacement for it... :)
--
Jim Strickland
jim(a)DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com
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2:29 p.m.
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5:47 p.m.
On Sun, 24 Jan 1999, Jim Strickland wrote:
****snip****
Speaking of classics, I'm hopefully going to get
my hands on a Kaypro 10 in
the near future. No idea if the hard disk is alive. Does anyone know if the
disk in that machine is a full height mfm? I just happen to have a 40 meg
replacement for it... :)
Could be either, but if original, it will have 4 heads and 306
cylinders! That is all the standard K-10 EPROM can handle. If you want
to use your ST-151 (or whatever) you will need to install the TurboROM or
one of the other third party EPROMs that give much greater flexibility!
- don
6:27 p.m.
Speaking of
classics, I'm hopefully going to get my hands on a Kaypro 10 in
the near future. No idea if the hard disk is alive. Does anyone know if the
disk in that machine is a full height mfm? I just happen to have a 40 meg
replacement for it... :)
Could be either, but if original, it will have 4 heads and 306
cylinders! That is all the standard K-10 EPROM can handle. If you want
to use your ST-151 (or whatever) you will need to install the TurboROM or
one of the other third party EPROMs that give much greater flexibility!
- don
7:13 p.m.
Jim Strickland wrote:
eek. I imagine TurboROM is one of those parts you can't get for love nor
money. I hope the drive works...
Oh, you can use just about any ST-506/MFM drive with the standard ROM.
But you can only use up to 4 heads and 306 cylinders, all other
capacity remains unaccessable.
--
Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/>
WARNING: The Attorney General has determined that Alcohol, Tobacco,
and Firearms can be hazardous to your health -- and get away with it.
Speaking
of classics, I'm hopefully going to get my hands on a Kaypro 10 in
the near future. No idea if the hard disk is alive. Does anyone know if the
disk in that machine is a full height mfm? I just happen to have a 40 meg
replacement for it... :)
Could be either, but if original, it will have 4 heads and 306
cylinders! That is all the standard K-10 EPROM can handle. If you want
to use your ST-151 (or whatever) you will need to install the TurboROM or
one of the other third party EPROMs that give much greater flexibility!
- don
7:27 p.m.
On Sun, 24 Jan 1999, Jim Strickland wrote:
eek. I imagine TurboROM is one of those parts you can't get for love nor
money. I hope the drive works...
I am fairly certain that it is available from TCJ. See my sig.
- don
Oh! And I meant to type ST-251!
Speaking of classics, I'm hopefully going to get
my hands on a Kaypro 10 in
the near future. No idea if the hard disk is alive. Does anyone know if the
disk in that machine is a full height mfm? I just happen to have a 40 meg
replacement for it... :)
Could be either, but if original, it will have 4 heads and 306
cylinders! That is all the standard K-10 EPROM can handle. If you want
to use your ST-151 (or whatever) you will need to install the TurboROM or
one of the other third party EPROMs that give much greater flexibility!
- don
--
Jim Strickland
jim(a)DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
donm(a)cts.com
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives
Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society
Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology.
Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) Z-Node 9 - 619-454-8412
*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*
see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj
visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Web site at http://devili.iki.fi/cpm
with Mirror at http://www.mathcs.emory.edu/~cfs/cpm
25 Jan
25 Jan
3:07 a.m.
New subject: The Computer Journal
At 10:27 PM 1/24/99 -0800, Don wrote:
eek. I
imagine TurboROM is one of those parts you can't get for love nor
money. I hope the drive works...
I am fairly certain that it is available from TCJ. See my sig.
- don
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives
Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society
Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology.
Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) Z-Node 9 - 619-454-8412
*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*
see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj
visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Web site at http://devili.iki.fi/cpm
with Mirror at http://www.mathcs.emory.edu/~cfs/cpm
Is The Computer Journal still in business? Their web site is still up, but I
cannot tell when it was last updated. I subscribed last July and haven't
yet received any issues. (In October they were working on the next one,
#82...) That is about my threshold for non delivery, I
wrote and sent email asking for a refund and have gotten no response.
Speaking of classic computer magazines, does anyone get Historically Brewed?
-Dave
6:37 a.m.
New subject: The Computer Journal
On Mon, 25 Jan 1999, Dave Dameron wrote:
Is The Computer Journal still in business? Their web
site is still up, but I
cannot tell when it was last updated. I subscribed last July and haven't
yet received any issues. (In October they were working on the next one,
#82...) That is about my threshold for non delivery, I
wrote and sent email asking for a refund and have gotten no response.
They've been busy. I subscribed over a year ago and have gotten only a
few issues of my subscription. Since I know they're good guys and would
never intentionally screw anyone I am not bitching about it, but I
certainly do understand your plight. Keep trying, they are definitely
still around, just not responding.
Speaking of classic computer magazines, does anyone
get Historically Brewed?
As far as I know this wasn't being published anymore(?)
Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Always being hassled by the man.
Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0
See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
[Last web site update: 01/15/99]
1:12 p.m.
New subject: The Computer Journal
Historically Brewed was to have started back up late last year but I have
yet receive one issue from them and no response to e-mails for a refund.
-----Original Message-----
From: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu
[mailto:CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu]On Behalf Of Sam Ismail
Sent: Monday, January 25, 1999 11:38 AM
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
Subject: Re:The Computer Journal
On Mon, 25 Jan 1999, Dave Dameron wrote:
Is The Computer Journal still in business? Their
web site is
still up, but I
cannot tell when it was last updated. I
subscribed last July and haven't
yet received any issues. (In October they were working on the next one,
#82...) That is about my threshold for non delivery, I
wrote and sent email asking for a refund and have gotten no response.
They've been busy. I subscribed over a year ago and have gotten only a
few issues of my subscription. Since I know they're good guys and would
never intentionally screw anyone I am not bitching about it, but I
certainly do understand your plight. Keep trying, they are definitely
still around, just not responding.
Speaking of classic computer magazines, does
anyone get
Historically Brewed?
As far as I know this wasn't being published anymore(?)
Sellam Alternate e-mail:
dastar(a)siconic.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
------------
Always being hassled by the man.
Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0
See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
[Last web site update: 01/15/99]
6:48 p.m.
New subject: The Computer Journal
On Mon, 25 Jan 1999, John R. Keys Jr. wrote:
Historically Brewed was to have started back up late
last year but I have
yet receive one issue from them and no response to e-mails for a refund.
Thanks. I was going to subscribe but I guess I'll use that money to
invest in some vintage computers instead.
Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Always being hassled by the man.
Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0
See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
[Last web site update: 01/15/99]
7:50 a.m.
As for the rule itself, I agree that ten years after
last manufacture
implies classic status - that is, the item is an antique. However,
that requirement of time is not necessarily the most prudent for some
items. In some cases, classic status might be applied to an item
available only two or three years ago. Such cases might be
rare but, justified by the circumstances.
To look at similar things, what about cars: wasn't the
VW Käfer already a classic, _years_ befor the production
in Germany ended (and in fact, he is still in production
in Mexico!).
So, when is a classic car classic ? Basicly there is a
20 year rule (at least over here), that applies on the
date of first usage of this particular unit.
I suggest also that classic status might be conferred
upon a measure of the
relative throughput of the computing instrument at hand. That is, when the device
performs at a rate of two percent or less than the performance of minimal systems
sold in the marketplace (at the time of the comparison), then such a system can be
termed a classic.
So, lets apply this: My KIM-1 does up to 500 kop/s (or more
realistic a sustained rate of 200 to 300 kop/s). An actual
multi purpouse SBC system might have an SAB 80535 at 12 MHz
that could do up to 3,000 kop/s (or average 1,200 kop/s) -
so my KIM is still 1/6th of an actual comperable system and
not 1/50th ...
Gee - and I always belived it was a classic system, but with
this rule it is definitly not, since you said when _below_
2% it _can_ be a classic.
Or do you think in matters of useable performance ? My Win95
box (K6-366 running at 417) scrolls the text in about the
same speed than my old A2 ...
I guess both definitions are to tight.
Gruss
H.
--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK
9315
days inactive
9316
days old
11 comments
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ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
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