22 May
2007
22 May
'07
2:16 a.m.
Thanks to a creative suggestion from Ethan, I want to use VTserver
to transfer a bootable OS/8 RL02 image from my laptop (which works
fine under SIMH PDP-8) to an RL02 pack on my 11/23+. Then I will
remove that disk from the drive on the -11, place it in the 8/A's
RL02 drive, and voila - it should boot OS/8! (The disks are
identical format regardless of system, only the programs
themselves differ).
Meanwhile I am confused about VTserver's use and terminology of
serial ports. I got a PC-executable version here:
http://home.alltel.net/engdahl/vtserver.zip
and modified the .vtrc file (as recommended in the embedded
comments) to send only two tape records, "copy" and the RL02
image. I realize a null modem cable will need to be made. So far
so good?
But I don't understand the difference between, say, "ttyd1" and
"ttyp9"... those are Unix terms, not DOS... will one of these be
correct to enable the serial port connector on the back (one of
the COM ports)? If not, how do I patch this?
I was a hardware designer and 8/16 bit assembly language writer
(and that was over 20 years ago) and definitely never a C, Unix or
Windows programmer, so please bear with me. Any helpful hints
appreciated :)
-Charles
23 May
23 May
6:38 a.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org
[mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Charles
Sent: dinsdag 22 mei 2007 4:17
To: cctech at classiccmp.org
Subject: Need help with VTserver
Thanks to a creative suggestion from Ethan, I want to use VTserver
to transfer a bootable OS/8 RL02 image from my laptop (which works
fine under SIMH PDP-8) to an RL02 pack on my 11/23+. Then I will
remove that disk from the drive on the -11, place it in the 8/A's
RL02 drive, and voila - it should boot OS/8! (The disks are
identical format regardless of system, only the programs
themselves differ).
I never used VTserver ... and I would never have tought of using
VTserver with a *PDP-11* to load *PDP-8* software!
Very interesting twist :-)
I am not sure if it will work. Let me explain why.
Using VTserver to load OS/8 (pdp8 software) into the memory of
the PDP-11 will work, I guess. So far, it is just data words
that you are transfering. However, when you write the data to
disk you use the RT11 file structure. If the RT11 structure
is identical to the file structure used by OS/8, I guess it
will work, else ...
Using VTserver to transfer any "smallish" pdp8 software to
a PDP-11 and then *punch* on papertape would work, I guess.
[...snip...]
- Henk.
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6:53 a.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org
[mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Gooijen, Henk
Sent: woensdag 23 mei 2007 8:38
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: RE: Need help with VTserver
Sorry for the addition to my own scribbling.
I even start to wonder if punching will work! I guess it will,
as long as the data/program is contiguous in memory. Punching
on the PDP-11 may know about Origin (not sure), but probably
does not have knowledge of Fields. So if the program is larger
than 4k (12-bit) words (spans more than 1 field) punching a
pdp8 program on the PDP-11 will fail.
Also, the PDP-11 has 16-bit words, whereas the pdp8 has 12-bit
words ... my doubts are increasing.
Would like to hear comments from others here!
- Henk.
This message and attachment(s) are intended solely for use by the addressee and may
contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise exempt from disclosure
under applicable law.
If you are not the intended recipient or agent thereof responsible for delivering this
message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination,
distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.
If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by
telephone and with a 'reply' message.
Thank you for your co-operation.
[...snip...]
Using VTserver to transfer any "smallish" pdp8 software to a
PDP-11 and then *punch* on papertape would work, I guess. 
12:55 p.m.
On 5/23/07, Gooijen, Henk <henk.gooijen at oce.com> wrote:
I thought so. ;-)
Thanks to a
creative suggestion from Ethan, I want to use VTserver
to transfer a bootable OS/8 RL02 image from my laptop (which works
fine under SIMH PDP-8) to an RL02 pack on my 11/23+...
I never used VTserver ... and I would never have tought of using
VTserver with a *PDP-11* to load *PDP-8* software!
Very interesting twist :-) I am not sure if it will work. Let me explain why.
Using VTserver to load OS/8 (pdp8 software) into the memory of
the PDP-11 will work, I guess. So far, it is just data words
that you are transfering. However, when you write the data to
disk you use the RT11 file structure.
What does RT-11 have to do with it? VTserver was written, AFAIK, for
loading UNIX images to a PDP-11 pack. As I understand VTserver, it
takes a disk image and throws it block-by-block to a target medium.
It doesn't matter what the contents are, as long as the blocks are in
the right order.
For an RK05, the platform matters because PDP-8s use 16-sector packs
and PDP-11s use 12-sector packs (same number of bits per track, but
sliced and diced differently). With RL01s and RL02s, there is no
change in the low-level format from PDP-8 to PDP-11 to VAX use - only
the contents of the blocks are different.
If the RT11 structure
is identical to the file structure used by OS/8, I guess it
will work, else ...
It is not. With the exception of ODS-1, there is no common thread of
DEC filesystems across OSes and platforms that I am aware of.
Using VTserver to transfer any "smallish"
pdp8 software to
a PDP-11 and then *punch* on papertape would work, I guess.
If one has papertape, which I don't expect Charles does. A 2MB OS/8
device will fill a lot of papertape ;-)
I directed him to the list because I am aware of what VTserver does,
but I haven't used it myself and thought that there would be some
experienced hands to show him the ropes.
-ethan
1:20 p.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org
[mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Ethan Dicks
Sent: woensdag 23 mei 2007 14:55
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Need help with VTserver
[...snip...]
Ah! Now I understand ... VTserver is writing to the pack, there
is no RT11 running. Correct? As I said, I don't know VTserver,
so I made a wrong ASSumption.
I am not sure if it will work. Let me explain
why.
Using VTserver to load OS/8 (pdp8 software) into the memory
of the PDP-11 will work, I guess. So far, it is just data
words that you are transfering. However, when you write the
data to disk you use the RT11 file structure.
What does RT-11 have to do with it? VTserver was written,
AFAIK, for loading UNIX images to a PDP-11 pack. As I
understand VTserver, it takes a disk image and throws it
block-by-block to a target medium.
It doesn't matter what the contents are, as long as the
blocks are in the right order. [...snip...]
True ... and confetti to throw during some festivity :-)
- Henk.
This message and attachment(s) are intended solely for use by the addressee and may
contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise exempt from disclosure
under applicable law.
If you are not the intended recipient or agent thereof responsible for delivering this
message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination,
distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.
If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by
telephone and with a 'reply' message.
Thank you for your co-operation.
Using VTserver to transfer any
"smallish" pdp8 software to
a PDP-11 and then *punch* on papertape would work, I guess.
If one has papertape, which I don't expect Charles does. A
2MB OS/8 device will fill a lot of papertape ;-)
6434
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6435
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4 comments
3 participants
participants (3)
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charlesmorris＠hughes.net -
ethan.dicks＠gmail.com -
henk.gooijen＠oce.com