13 Feb
2020
13 Feb
'20
1:13 a.m.
I thought some list members might find this interesting. I still like what
the British did and the tunnel under Berlin.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/world/national-security/cia-cr…
13 Feb
13 Feb
1:47 a.m.
New subject: Fwd: Crypto AG
On 13.02.20 10:13, Paul Anderson via cctalk wrote:
I thought some list members might find this
interesting. I still like what
the British did and the tunnel under Berlin.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/world/national-security/cia-cr…
Very old news, I am afraid.
?Iranians knew/suspected? that already in 1992, which is why a Swiss salesengineer for
Crypto AG found himself in a Teheran military prison, subject to ?intensive examination?
No help from the CIA in securing his release....
On a related note : Enigma type machines were used in the Swisss army. A few of these
found their way in the Swiss army surplus shop, sold for a pittance.
If only? I had? known? then that these would be worth between 50-100K USD today....
Jos
18 Feb
18 Feb
12:46 a.m.
New subject: Fwd: Crypto AG
Hi Jos,
True, but I don't talk about information that may still classified. If it's
already in the media, it's fair game.
Thanks, Paul
On Thu, Feb 13, 2020 at 3:47 AM jos via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
wrote:
On 13.02.20 10:13, Paul Anderson via cctalk wrote:
I thought some list members might find this
interesting. I still like
what
the British did and the tunnel under Berlin.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/world/national-security/cia-cr…
Very old news, I am afraid.
Iranians knew/suspected that already in 1992, which is why a Swiss
salesengineer for Crypto AG found himself in a Teheran military prison,
subject to ?intensive examination?
No help from the CIA in securing his release....
On a related note : Enigma type machines were used in the Swisss army. A
few of these found their way in the Swiss army surplus shop, sold for a
pittance.
If only I had known then that these would be worth between 50-100K USD
today....
Jos
1:50 a.m.
New subject: Fwd: Crypto AG
Not everyone on this list was even alive when much of this happened, and
others of us were busy dealing with other very important things going on in
The Real World then, so this is a very interesting story for many.
Anyone willing to do business with the terrorists in Iran knew why they
were getting the big bucks to do it. It's like being surprised when you
get eaten while swimming with Great White sharks - it's in their nature. A
regime that repeatedly violates sovereign foreign territory in the form of
embassies and consulates should have been cut off from the rest of
the world on Day One until they dried up and blew away. They laugh when
others treat them with civility and grant them unearned respect as a
legitimate government.
The Enigma machines were made by a company that produced earlier commercial
versions that didn't have the plugboard on the front of the Enigmas, and
the rotors were wired differently from those provided for the Enigmas. The
commercial predecessors were common in banks and larger businesses that
needed to maintain the confidentiality of company-internal and/or customer
information, and that needed to be communicated quickly to distant
locations.
On Thu, Feb 13, 2020 at 2:47 AM jos via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
wrote:
Very old news, I am afraid.
n a related note : Enigma type machines were used in
the Swisss army. A
few of these found their way in the Swiss army surplus shop, sold for a
pittance.
If only I had known then that these would be worth between 50-100K USD
today....
3:49 a.m.
New subject: Fwd: Crypto AG
tis 2020-02-18 klockan 02:50 -0700 skrev Jim Manley via cctalk:
Not everyone on this list was even alive when much of
this happened,
and
others of us were busy dealing with other very important things going
on in
The Real World then, so this is a very interesting story for many.
Anyone willing to do business with the terrorists in Iran knew why
they
were getting the big bucks to do it. It's like being surprised when
you
get eaten while swimming with Great White sharks - it's in their
nature. A
regime that repeatedly violates sovereign foreign territory in the
form of
embassies and consulates should have been cut off from the rest of
the world on Day One until they dried up and blew away. They laugh
when
others treat them with civility and grant them unearned respect as a
legitimate government.
???
Remember the Monroe doctrine ?
Including the overthrow of the monarchy of Hawaii (or Texas for that
matter) so whom is/was the bigger shark ?
With regards to the Iranian money:
the US previously accepted the arbitration.
Would the US prefer to not use arbitration at all ? Then it would be a
simple matter of who is the strongest.
4:36 a.m.
New subject: Fwd: Crypto AG
On February 18, 2020 at 5:49 AM Stefan Skoglund via
cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
tis 2020-02-18 klockan 02:50 -0700 skrev Jim Manley via cctalk:> Not everyone on this
list was even alive when much of this happened,
Would the US prefer to not use arbitration at all ?
Then it would be asimple matter of who is the strongest.
This is now the "Classic Politics" list?
I missed how the PDP-11 fits into this discussion.
Mr. Manley doesn't speak for all of the US.
I respectfully request this stay at least vaguely on topic.
Thanks,
Will
"A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away." -- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"The names of global variables should start with // " -- https://isocpp.org
12:45 p.m.
New subject: Fwd: Crypto AG
On Tue, Feb 18, 2020 at 7:36 AM Will Cooke via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
wrote:
Worked pretty well for Teddy Roosevelt and the rest of yes, we, the U.S.,
over history, who saved most others' bacon over and over again. That
includes my father starting with the 101st AD at Normandy and ending at
Berchtesgaden, with a POW stint in between after the Battle of the Bulge,
when he lost a third of his body weight thanks to the Nazi cleanse. I've
spent over a third of my life in similar pursuits of pulling posteriors out
of fires of their own making. Don't even _think_ of lecturing me on this
kind of subject.
Would the US
prefer to not use arbitration at all ? Then it would be
asimple matter of who is
the strongest.
Mr. Manley doesn't speak for all of the US.
Just the parts that matter.
I respectfully request this stay at least vaguely on
topic.
And I used multiple PDP-11/70s running RSX-11 on RP-04s and RP-06s to do
the above, and much more, as an engineer and a computer scientist. So,
there ya go, back on topic, Will.
Most respectfully,
Jim
1:08 p.m.
New subject: Fwd: Crypto AG
On 2020-02-18 3:45 PM, Jim Manley via cctalk wrote:
On Tue, Feb 18, 2020 at 7:36 AM Will Cooke via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
wrote:
Worked pretty well for Teddy Roosevelt and the rest of yes, we, the U.S.,
over history, who saved most others' bacon over and over again. That
includes my father starting with the 101st AD at Normandy and
Is this blather on topic?
If so I need to be on a different list.
Would the
US prefer to not use arbitration at all ? Then it would be
asimple matter of who is
the strongest.
the above, and much more, as an engineer and a
computer scientist. So,
there ya go, back on topic, Will.
Most respectfully,
Jim
1:19 p.m.
New subject: Fwd: Crypto AG
On Tue, Feb 18, 2020 at 4:08 PM Toby Thain via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
wrote:
Is this blather on topic?
If so I need to be on a different list.
Go ahead, if you think you can enjoy ignoring the reality that exists
outside an imaginary bubble. Computing was, and is, used for all sorts of
useful purposes, including protecting people from their own negligence. We
crossed the Rubicon in the late 1980s when it comes to preventing world
hunger, because without computing and high-speed telecommunications,
production and distribution of food world-wide for a population closing in
on eight billion people would be impossible. Likewise for pretty much any
economic undertaking in any sector, anywhere, these days. Look what's
happening to the supply chains coming out of China now that 1.3 billion
people are increasingly being quarantined in response to a virus with a
speck of RNA that kills.
Those who fail to learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them,
even if subsequent stanzas may only rhyme. That includes computing
history, as it's been entwined in making all of our existences possible.
1:30 p.m.
New subject: Fwd: Crypto AG
ok boomer
On Tue, Feb 18, 2020 at 1:20 PM Jim Manley via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
wrote:
On Tue, Feb 18, 2020 at 4:08 PM Toby Thain via cctalk
<
cctalk at classiccmp.org>
wrote:
Is this blather on topic?
If so I need to be on a different list.
Go ahead, if you think you can enjoy ignoring the reality that exists
outside an imaginary bubble. Computing was, and is, used for all sorts of
useful purposes, including protecting people from their own negligence. We
crossed the Rubicon in the late 1980s when it comes to preventing world
hunger, because without computing and high-speed telecommunications,
production and distribution of food world-wide for a population closing in
on eight billion people would be impossible. Likewise for pretty much any
economic undertaking in any sector, anywhere, these days. Look what's
happening to the supply chains coming out of China now that 1.3 billion
people are increasingly being quarantined in response to a virus with a
speck of RNA that kills.
Those who fail to learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them,
even if subsequent stanzas may only rhyme. That includes computing
history, as it's been entwined in making all of our existences possible.
11:49 a.m.
New subject: Fwd: Crypto AG
Jim Manley via cctalk wrote:
Not everyone on this list was even alive when much of
this happened, and
others of us were busy dealing with other very important things going on in
The Real World then, so this is a very interesting story for many.
Anyone willing to do business with the terrorists in Iran knew why they
were getting the big bucks to do it. It's like being surprised when you
get eaten while swimming with Great White sharks - it's in their nature. A
regime that repeatedly violates sovereign foreign territory in the form of
embassies and consulates should have been cut off from the rest of
the world on Day One until they dried up and blew away. They laugh when
others treat them with civility and grant them unearned respect as a
legitimate government.
You are talking from the US, right?
There is no other country on the world that fit's that nicely to your
described symptoms.
Regards,
Holm
--
Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe,
Freiberger Stra?e 42, 09600 Obersch?na, USt-Id: DE253710583
info at tsht.de Fax +49 3731 74200 Tel +49 3731 74222 Mobil: 0172 8790 741
1:08 p.m.
New subject: Fwd: Crypto AG
On Tue, Feb 18, 2020 at 2:49 PM Holm Tiffe <holm at freibergnet.de> wrote:
You are talking from the US, right?
There is no other country on the world that fit's that nicely to your
described symptoms.
See the foregoing posts. There is no other country in the world outside
the U.S. capable of saving, let alone willing, unlimited numbers of
thankless, forgetful, sanctimonious examples of limited vision and
knowledge of real history. BTW, what were your predecessors doing between
1933 and 1945, Holm?
Jim
1:16 p.m.
New subject: Fwd: Crypto AG
C'mon, lets keep the politics off-list please.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk <cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org> On Behalf Of Jim Manley via cctalk
Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2020 3:08 PM
To: Holm Tiffe <holm at freibergnet.de>; Jim Manley <jim.manley at gmail.com>;
General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Crypto AG
On Tue, Feb 18, 2020 at 2:49 PM Holm Tiffe <holm at freibergnet.de> wrote:
You are talking from the US, right?
There is no other country on the world that fit's that nicely to your
described symptoms.
See the foregoing posts. There is no other country in the world outside the U.S. capable
of saving, let alone willing, unlimited numbers of thankless, forgetful, sanctimonious
examples of limited vision and knowledge of real history. BTW, what were your
predecessors doing between
1933 and 1945, Holm?
Jim
1:33 p.m.
New subject: Fwd: Crypto AG
On 2020-02-18 4:16 PM, jwest--- via cctalk wrote:
C'mon, lets keep the politics off-list please.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk <cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org> On Behalf Of Jim Manley via cctalk
Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2020 3:08 PM
To: Holm Tiffe <holm at freibergnet.de>; Jim Manley <jim.manley at
gmail.com>; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at
classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Crypto AG
On Tue, Feb 18, 2020 at 2:49 PM Holm Tiffe <holm at freibergnet.de> wrote:
^^ OK mods, time to shut this garbage down.
You are talking from the US, right?
There is no other country on the world that fit's that nicely to your
described symptoms.
See the foregoing posts. There is no other country in the world outside the U.S. capable
of saving, let alone willing, unlimited numbers of thankless, forgetful, sanctimonious
examples of limited vision and knowledge of real history. BTW, what were your
predecessors doing between
1933 and 1945, Holm?
Jim
9:07 p.m.
New subject: Fwd: Crypto AG
I started this with good intentions, and I thought the post was on topic. I
did not want to start any
political arguments, or any arguments for that matter. In my opinion, the
intelligence community
is the Real World. Few citizens, in most countries, have little idea what
happens in the military, and
even less of the intelligence community.
My father, who was a 1st Sgt in the 28 Div, was also in the Bulge. D-Day
was very tough on the 101st.
They deserve a lot of credit and respect, and have a remarkable history.
On Tue, Feb 18, 2020 at 3:33 PM Toby Thain via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
wrote:
On 2020-02-18 4:16 PM, jwest--- via cctalk wrote:
C'mon, lets keep the politics off-list
please.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk <cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org> On Behalf Of Jim Manley
via
cctalk
Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2020 3:08 PM
To: Holm Tiffe <holm at freibergnet.de>; Jim Manley <jim.manley at
gmail.com>;
General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at
classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Crypto AG
On Tue, Feb 18, 2020 at 2:49 PM Holm Tiffe <holm at freibergnet.de> wrote:
the U.S.
capable of saving, let alone willing, unlimited numbers of
thankless, forgetful, sanctimonious examples of limited vision and
knowledge of real history. BTW, what were your predecessors doing between
You are talking from the US, right?
There is no other country on the world that fit's that nicely to your
described symptoms.
See the foregoing posts. There is no other country in the world outside 1933 and 1945, Holm?
^^ OK mods, time to shut this garbage down.
Jim
19 Feb
19 Feb
6:54 a.m.
New subject: Fwd: Crypto AG
IIRC, in the late 70s there was a hand held PDP8 (Intersil 6100 based)
variant ot the crypto AG box. PDP8 had been used (some decus
contributions) for linguistic and cryptologic applications. The hand
held looked a bit like a calculator, but I don't recall it having a
capability to connect to any other device, sort of an offline (no
external connection) encryption/decryption device like the AG box and
others.
bb
On Wed, Feb 19, 2020 at 12:07 AM Paul Anderson via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
I started this with good intentions, and I thought the post was on topic. I
did not want to start any
political arguments, or any arguments for that matter. In my opinion, the
intelligence community
is the Real World. Few citizens, in most countries, have little idea what
happens in the military, and
even less of the intelligence community.
My father, who was a 1st Sgt in the 28 Div, was also in the Bulge. D-Day
was very tough on the 101st.
They deserve a lot of credit and respect, and have a remarkable history.
On Tue, Feb 18, 2020 at 3:33 PM Toby Thain via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
wrote:
> On 2020-02-18 4:16 PM, jwest--- via cctalk wrote:
> > C'mon, lets keep the politics off-list please.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: cctalk <cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org> On Behalf Of Jim Manley
> via cctalk
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2020 3:08 PM
> > To: Holm Tiffe <holm at freibergnet.de>; Jim Manley <jim.manley at
gmail.com>;
> General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> > Subject: Re: Fwd: Crypto AG
> >
> > On Tue, Feb 18, 2020 at 2:49 PM Holm Tiffe <holm at freibergnet.de>
wrote:
> >
> >
> >> You are talking from the US, right?
> >> There is no other country on the world that fit's that nicely to your
> >> described symptoms.
> >>
> >
> > See the foregoing posts. There is no other country in the world outside
> the U.S. capable of saving, let alone willing, unlimited numbers of
> thankless, forgetful, sanctimonious examples of limited vision and
> knowledge of real history. BTW, what were your predecessors doing between
> > 1933 and 1945, Holm?
>
>
> ^^ OK mods, time to shut this garbage down.
>
>
>
> >
> > Jim
> >
> >
>
>
13 Feb
13 Feb
8:53 a.m.
On 02/13/2020 03:13 AM, Paul Anderson via cctalk wrote:
I thought some list members might find this
interesting. I still like what
the British did and the tunnel under Berlin.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/world/national-security/cia-cr…
If you find this interesting, the book :
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0452295475/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_s00…
Spycraft: the secret history of the CIA's Spy Tech...
Is a totally fascinating read. It has a bunch of stories
about crazy intercept and spying operations all over
the world.
Jon
1773
days inactive
1779
days old
16 comments
11 participants
participants (11)
-
bobsmithofd＠gmail.com -
elson＠pico-systems.com -
holm＠freibergnet.de -
ian.finder＠gmail.com -
jim.manley＠gmail.com -
jos.dreesen＠greenmail.ch -
jwest＠classiccmp.org -
stefan.skoglund＠agj.net -
toby＠telegraphics.com.au -
useddec＠gmail.com -
wrcooke＠wrcooke.net