2 Apr
2017
2 Apr
'17
11:49 a.m.
Hi,
I picked up an empty 4x8 Q-bus chassis at VCF-East this year. It's
labelled "USDC CSS-823 Processor System" on the outside. It's not a DEC
backplane, but the chassis is light aluminum, smaller and in some ways
nicer than my pile of BA23s. It includes a switching power supply,
LTC and q-bus termination, and I confirmed it's wired for Q22. I was
hoping to transplant an 11/83 into it, since it will fit more comfortably
in my work area. It has lit DCON/RUN/LTC/HALT buttons on the front pane.
The etching on the backplane says something like "MDB Systems, Inc.
East Orange, CA 92665"
Unfortunately, I discovered slots are all wired Q22/Q22, no top ABCD
(Q22/CD) PMI slots like a BA23. So, not good for an 11/83 CPU wired
for PMI on slots C-D.
So, I was hoping I could get my KDJ11-B (quad-wide 11/73) running in it.
Upon power up or reset I get "Testing in progress. Please wait" on
the serial console, and the LEDs get stuck on test 56. CTRL-C doesn't do
anything yet, and my only options seem to be to hit reset, or if I hit the
run/stop toggle, I can reset to the ODT prompt. This is with either just
the KDJ11-B in the top slot, or with the addition of a suitably configured
MSV11-QA in the next slot. If I turn off the LTC on the front panel,
I get the expected Error 61 M8190 clock error, PC and register values,
and options to re-run once or loop on test, so I know the LTC is working.
I confirmed the KDJ11-B works fine in a BA23, getting past test 56. I also
tried an 11/53 CPU here in the ABAB backplane and that gets past the self
tests into dialog mode, but I really would like to get the KDJ11-B working
in this chassis. I do see that a couple traces to the KDJ11-B C-D slots
besides the Grant Continuity connections. I assume since the KDJ11-B
has those Grant Continuity connections on slots C-D, it can run in a
qbus/qbus Q22/Q22 quad Q-bus slot.
I noticed the FP "RUN" lamp never comes on (and is not burned out), but maybe
that's normal -- monitoring something on the bus that doesn't happen during
power on self test.
Does anyone here have suggestions about next steps in diagnosing this?
https://archive.org/stream/bitsavers_decpdp1111aintNov86_5833755/EK-1184A-M…
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
4.10.18 Exit Standalone Mode (Test 56)
In the 22-bit mode, the exit standalone mode is checked by using the
guaranteed timeout address of 17 760 000 to verify that the timeout
logic works without hanging up the CPU.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Mark G. Thomas (Mark at Misty.com), KC3DRE
2 Apr
2 Apr
6:58 p.m.
On Sun, Apr 2, 2017 at 11:49 AM, Mark G Thomas via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Unfortunately, I discovered slots are all wired Q22/Q22, no top ABCD
(Q22/CD) PMI slots like a BA23. So, not good for an 11/83 CPU wired
for PMI on slots C-D.
So, I was hoping I could get my KDJ11-B (quad-wide 11/73) running in it.
Upon power up or reset I get "Testing in progress. Please wait" on
the serial console, and the LEDs get stuck on test 56. CTRL-C doesn't do
anything yet, and my only options seem to be to hit reset, or if I hit the
run/stop toggle, I can reset to the ODT prompt. This is with either just
the KDJ11-B in the top slot, or with the addition of a suitably configured
MSV11-QA in the next slot. If I turn off the LTC on the front panel,
I get the expected Error 61 M8190 clock error, PC and register values,
and options to re-run once or loop on test, so I know the LTC is working.
I confirmed the KDJ11-B works fine in a BA23, getting past test 56. I also
tried an 11/53 CPU here in the ABAB backplane and that gets past the self
tests into dialog mode, but I really would like to get the KDJ11-B working
in this chassis. I do see that a couple traces to the KDJ11-B C-D slots
besides the Grant Continuity connections. I assume since the KDJ11-B
has those Grant Continuity connections on slots C-D, it can run in a
qbus/qbus Q22/Q22 quad Q-bus slot.
If you know the Q22/Q22 backplane is not good for an 11/83 CPU, why
would you think it would be any different for a KDJ11-B 11/73 CPU?
They are both M8190 boards and both have PMI signals on the CD half of
the CPU board.
Whether an M8190 KDJ11-B CPU board is called an 11/73, 11/83, or 11/84
is a boring discussion that has been rehashed here multiple times, the
important thing is don't put one in a Q22/Q22 backplane and expect it
to work correctly.
-Glen
5 Apr
5 Apr
8:02 a.m.
________________________________________
From: cctalk [cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] on behalf of Mark G Thomas via cctalk
[cctalk at classiccmp.org]
Sent: Sunday, April 2, 2017 2:49 PM
To: cctech at classiccmp.org
Subject: KDJ11-B PDP 11/73 getting stuck in Exit standalone mode diag #56
Hi,
I picked up an empty 4x8 Q-bus chassis at VCF-East this year. It's
labelled "USDC CSS-823 Processor System" on the outside. It's not a DEC
backplane, but the chassis is light aluminum, smaller and in some ways
nicer than my pile of BA23s. It includes a switching power supply,
LTC and q-bus termination, and I confirmed it's wired for Q22. I was
hoping to transplant an 11/83 into it, since it will fit more comfortably
in my work area. It has lit DCON/RUN/LTC/HALT buttons on the front pane.
The etching on the backplane says something like "MDB Systems, Inc.
East Orange, CA 92665"
Unfortunately, I discovered slots are all wired Q22/Q22, no top ABCD
(Q22/CD) PMI slots like a BA23. So, not good for an 11/83 CPU wired
for PMI on slots C-D.
So, I was hoping I could get my KDJ11-B (quad-wide 11/73) running in it.
Upon power up or reset I get "Testing in progress. Please wait" on
the serial console, and the LEDs get stuck on test 56. CTRL-C doesn't do
anything yet, and my only options seem to be to hit reset, or if I hit the
run/stop toggle, I can reset to the ODT prompt. This is with either just
the KDJ11-B in the top slot, or with the addition of a suitably configured
MSV11-QA in the next slot. If I turn off the LTC on the front panel,
I get the expected Error 61 M8190 clock error, PC and register values,
and options to re-run once or loop on test, so I know the LTC is working.
I confirmed the KDJ11-B works fine in a BA23, getting past test 56. I also
tried an 11/53 CPU here in the ABAB backplane and that gets past the self
tests into dialog mode, but I really would like to get the KDJ11-B working
in this chassis. I do see that a couple traces to the KDJ11-B C-D slots
besides the Grant Continuity connections. I assume since the KDJ11-B
has those Grant Continuity connections on slots C-D, it can run in a
qbus/qbus Q22/Q22 quad Q-bus slot.
I noticed the FP "RUN" lamp never comes on (and is not burned out), but maybe
that's normal -- monitoring something on the bus that doesn't happen during
power on self test.
Does anyone here have suggestions about next steps in diagnosing this?
https://archive.org/stream/bitsavers_decpdp1111aintNov86_5833755/EK-1184A-M…
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
4.10.18 Exit Standalone Mode (Test 56)
In the 22-bit mode, the exit standalone mode is checked by using the
guaranteed timeout address of 17 760 000 to verify that the timeout
logic works without hanging up the CPU.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Mark G. Thomas (Mark at Misty.com), KC3DRE
__________________________________________________
OK, I have the book on that. You need to determine which backplane you have.
MLSI-BPA84-T Serpentine A-B-A-B
MLSI-BPA84-A-T Serpentine except for slots 6 and 7.
We'll ignore the MLSI-BPA82 as that's just a dual wide A-B.
I will see if I can scan the book and send it to you but no promises how
soon. It's pretty good sized and my scanning capabilities are primitive.
bill
2:44 p.m.
Hi Bill,
________________________________________
From: cctalk [cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] on behalf of Mark G Thomas via cctalk
[cctalk at classiccmp.org]
Subject: KDJ11-B PDP 11/73 getting stuck in Exit standalone mode diag #56
Hi,
I picked up an empty 4x8 Q-bus chassis at VCF-East this year. It's
labelled "USDC CSS-823 Processor System" on the outside. It's not a DEC
backplane, but the chassis is light aluminum, smaller and in some ways
nicer than my pile of BA23s. It includes a switching power supply,
LTC and q-bus termination, and I confirmed it's wired for Q22. I was
hoping to transplant an 11/83 into it, since it will fit more comfortably
in my work area. It has lit DCON/RUN/LTC/HALT buttons on the front pane.
The etching on the backplane says something like "MDB Systems, Inc.
East Orange, CA 92665"
Unfortunately, I discovered slots are all wired Q22/Q22, no top ABCD
(Q22/CD) PMI slots like a BA23. So, not good for an 11/83 CPU wired
for PMI on slots C-D.
So, I was hoping I could get my KDJ11-B (quad-wide 11/73) running in it.
Upon power up or reset I get "Testing in progress. Please wait" on
the serial console, and the LEDs get stuck on test 56. CTRL-C doesn't do
anything yet, and my only options seem to be to hit reset, or if I hit the
run/stop toggle, I can reset to the ODT prompt. This is with either just
the KDJ11-B in the top slot, or with the addition of a suitably configured
MSV11-QA in the next slot. If I turn off the LTC on the front panel,
I get the expected Error 61 M8190 clock error, PC and register values,
and options to re-run once or loop on test, so I know the LTC is working.
I confirmed the KDJ11-B works fine in a BA23, getting past test 56. I also
tried an 11/53 CPU here in the ABAB backplane and that gets past the self
tests into dialog mode, but I really would like to get the KDJ11-B working
in this chassis. I do see that a couple traces to the KDJ11-B C-D slots
besides the Grant Continuity connections. I assume since the KDJ11-B
has those Grant Continuity connections on slots C-D, it can run in a
qbus/qbus Q22/Q22 quad Q-bus slot.
I noticed the FP "RUN" lamp never comes on (and is not burned out), but maybe
that's normal -- monitoring something on the bus that doesn't happen during
power on self test.
Does anyone here have suggestions about next steps in diagnosing this?
https://archive.org/stream/bitsavers_decpdp1111aintNov86_5833755/EK-1184A-M…
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
4.10.18 Exit Standalone Mode (Test 56)
In the 22-bit mode, the exit standalone mode is checked by using the
guaranteed timeout address of 17 760 000 to verify that the timeout
logic works without hanging up the CPU.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
On Wed, Apr 05, 2017 at 03:02:55PM +0000, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote:
OK, I have the book on that. You need to determine
which backplane you have.
MLSI-BPA84-T Serpentine A-B-A-B
MLSI-BPA84-A-T Serpentine except for slots 6 and 7.
We'll ignore the MLSI-BPA82 as that's just a dual wide A-B.
I will see if I can scan the book and send it to you but no promises how
soon. It's pretty good sized and my scanning capabilities are primitive.
bill
I didn't realize the M8190 (11/73) was PMI, and really the same board
as my 11/83. Fortunately, there was definitely no smoke, and the 11/73
still works fine in my BA23. I think the magic smoke problem might be
more likely if someone plugs a Q22 board into PMI slots, due to the
unfortunate wiring of those grant continuity connections.
I cannot find anything like BPA84-anything on this backplane.
There is a tiny whale emblem on the trace side of the board saying
something like "MO__ Quick" under it, though faint, and bold easy
to read "MLSI-CHASSIS #40040328" close to the end with the power terminals.
I confirmed with a meter that all slots are A-B-A-B, including 6 and 7.
I'm not sure I need the manual, unless it also includes schematics for
the power supply, RTC, and front panel control electronics wiring.
I'm now up and running with a dual-wide M8192 from a batch from a
scrap board guy on ebay, and an M7195 borrowed from another system
for testing.
Next challenge is figuring out the jumpers on an M8043 for SLU console
and seeing if I have or can find a working SCSI controller with a boot
ROM on it, since I don't have another M7195 and they seem to go for
high prices these days on e-bay when they do show up.
Mark
--
Mark G. Thomas (Mark at Misty.com), KC3DRE
2601
days inactive
2604
days old
3 comments
3 participants
participants (3)
-
bill.gunshannon＠hotmail.com -
glen.slick＠gmail.com -
Mark＠Misty.com