9 Jun
2015
9 Jun
'15
12:57 p.m.
The issue that I'm having at the moment is that when I try to boot from either
that RL02 pack or the R80, VMB.EXE reports "%BOOT-F-Unable to locate BOOT
file". I don't know yet whether there's something not-right about the
contents of the hard drives, or I need to configure something (?) so VMB.EXE
knows what to look for.
There can be more than one system root on a VMS system disk, typically one each
for different nodes in a cluster, maybe under [SYS0], [SYS10], [SYS11] etc and
standalone backup can sometimes be found under [SYSE], if installed.
"Unable to locate BOOT file" may indicate that you are not reading the correct
system root or it may indicate that the disk is not bootable or maybe something
entirely different. I am not well up on the 11/730 and I hope someone more
familiar with their system specific details will chime in.
On some other VAX machines but probably not an 11/730, the [SYSE] root would be
booted by entering something like:
boot /R5:E0000000 <device>
or maybe:
boot /R5:E000000 <device>
or maybe even:
boot <device>/E0000000
or
boot <device>/E000000
The boot scripts on the console boot tape appear to
set up VMB.EXE by shoving
numbers into some registers prior to loading it, and I have not yet located
any documentation about what the numbers mean.
If it is like other VAX variants that I am familar with, the top eight bits
(or maybe four bits - I forget which?) of the 32 bit number that ends up in
register R5 is what selects the system root you end up attempting to boot.
I wonder if I might be able to back up the hard drives to an absurd number
of emulated TU58 images, so that I could then examine those on my modern
machine?
That sounds plausable. If you backup to a saveset on the emulated TU58, BACKUP
should prompt you to change emulated tapes each time they fill up.
I could probably back up onto magtape, but I don't have another means to
read the tapes yet. I have another tape drive (which needs repair) that
I'll eventually include in my PDP-11/44 restoration, but that's a big
project, far in the future.
Good luck with that one!
I wonder if the VMS5.3 standalone backup might know how to back up to some
network device? I have an ethernet card in the VAX, so that might be a way
to get data off the machine for examination.
Standalone backup is not network aware. You need to get VMS booted before you
get to use the network.
Any suggestions or clues would be greatly appreciated! I'm still learning how
to tell the chickens from the eggs.
Looks like you're doing well so far!
Regards,
Peter Coghlan.
9 Jun
9 Jun
2:01 p.m.
On Jun 9, 2015, at 09:57 , Peter Coghlan <cctalk at
beyondthepale.ie> wrote:
[Lots of great stuff]
Thank you very much! The clue about R5 on other VAXen may prove to be critically helpful.
I can study the various boot scripts for clues to see if the register use looks
consistent. I did see one hint that sticking 1 instead of 0 into one particular register
(I don't recall which one of the top of my head) seemed to indicate a conversational
boot instead of turnkey one.
Is there VMB.EXE documentation out there that I don't know how to find yet? Even if
it's for VMB.EXE for a different VAX-11 machine, the one for my 730 might follow the
same register conventions.
Another approach came to mind that might be a lot easier than swapping a humorously large
number of virtual TU58 cassettes, or might be yet another goose chase. One of my last
recent eBay purchases before I quit both eBay and PayPal in a huff over terms of service
changes was a TK50 drive and both UNIBUS and QBUS interface cards for it. All of the
pieces are unknown quantities, and I'll need to kludge a power supply and fabricate an
interface cable, but the drive can theoretically be plugged into my 730. If the 5.3
standalone backup knows about TK50 drives, then I may be able to try backing up whatever
is on the hard drives to TK50 cartridges.
Next, if I get a TZ30 drive, I wonder if I might be able to plug it into my Sun Ultra 60
running Solaris 8 (since that's my workingest computer with both a SCSI interface and
a familiar UNIXy operating system), and then use that to slurp data off the backup
cartridge(s) for further analysis. Does this approach sound plausible? Unless somebody
happens to know that the TZ30 is incompatible with generic SCSI tape support on UNIX
boxen, I think I'll contact the same seller I bought the TK50 from and see if they
have a TZ30 sitting around.
Yet another approach might be doing the same scheme with my system's existing magtape
drive, and then trying to get my hands on a SCSI magtape drive to plug into my Sun. But
that would involve shipping a much larger and heavier piece of equipment.
--
Mark J. Blair, NF6X <nf6x at nf6x.net>
http://www.nf6x.net/
5:43 p.m.
On 2015-06-09 20:01, Mark J. Blair wrote:
find yet?
Even if it's for VMB.EXE for a different VAX-11 machine, the
one for my 730 might follow the same register conventions.
Yes, R5 is more or less used the same on all VAXen, since this is used
by VMB, which almost all VAXen use in one form or another.
The documentation exists in various places. Here is from the VAX86x0 help:
! R5: - software boot control flags. The value -1 is reserved.
!
! Bit Meaning
! --- -------
!
! 0 RPB$V_CONV.
! Conversational boot. At various points in the
! system boot procedure, the bootstrap code
! solicits parameters and other input from the
! console terminal. If the DIAG is also on, then
! the diagnostic supervisor should enter "MENU"
! mode and prompt user for devices to test.
!
! 1 RPB$V_DEBUG.
! Debug. If this flag is set, VMS maps the code
! for the XDELTA debugger into the system page
! tables of the running system.
!
! 2 RPB$V_INIBPT.
! Initial breakpoint. If RPB$V_DEBUG is set, VMS
! executes a BPT instruction immediately after
! enabling mapping.
!
! 3 RPB$V_BBLOCK.
! Secondary boot from boot block. Secondary
! bootstrap is a single 512-byte block, whose
! LBN is specified in R4.
!
! 4 RPB$V_DIAG.
! Diagnostic boot. Secondary bootstrap is image
! called [SYSMAINT]DIAGBOOT.EXE.
!
! 5 RPB$V_BOOBPT.
! Bootstrap breakpoint. Stops the primary
! and secondary bootstraps with a breakpoint
! instruction before testing memory.
!
! 6 RPB$V_HEADER.
! Image header. Takes the transfer address of the
! secondary bootstrap image from that file's
! image header. If RPB$V_HEADER is not set,
! transfers control to the first byte of the
! secondary boot file.
!
! 7 RPB$V_NOTEST.
! Memory test inhibit. Sets a bit in the PFN bit
! map for each page of memory present. Does not
! test the memory.
!
! 8 RPB$V_SOLICT.
! File name. VM at prompts for the name of a
! secondary bootstrap file.
!
! 9 RPB$V_HALT.
! Halt before transfer. Executes a HALT
! instruction before transferring control to the
! secondary bootstrap.
!
! 10 RPB$V_NOPFND.
! No PFN deletion (not implemented; intended to
! tell VM at not to read a file from the boot device
! that identifies bad or reserved memory pages,
! so that VM at does not mark these pages as valid
! in the PFN bitmap).
!
! 11 RPB$V_MPM.
! Specifies that multi-port memory is to be used
! for the total exec memory requirement. No local
! memory is to be used. This is for tightly-coupled
! multi-processing.
!
! 12 RPB$V_USEMPM.
! Specifies that multi-port memory should be used in
! addition to local memory, as though both were one
! single pool of pages.
!
! 13 RPB$V_MEMTEST
! Specifies that a more extensive algorithm be used
! when testing main memory for hardware uncorrectable
! (RDS) errors.
!
! 14 RPB$V_FINDMEM
! Requests use of MA780 memory if MS780 is
insufficient
! for booting. Used for 11/782 installations.
!
! 15 RPB$V_AUTOTEST
! Used by Diagnostic Supervisor.
!
! 16 RPB$V_CRDTEST
! Specifies that memory pages with correctable (CRD)
! errors NOT be discarded at bootstrap time. By
default,
! pages with CRD errors are removed from use
during the
! bootstrap memory test.
!
! <27:17> MBZ - Reserved for future expansion.
!
! <31:28> RPB$V_TOPSYS
! Specifies the top level directory number for system
! disks with multiple systems
On Jun 9, 2015, at 09:57 , Peter Coghlan
<cctalk at beyondthepale.ie> wrote:
[Lots of great stuff]
Thank you very much! The clue about R5 on other VAXen may prove to be critically helpful.
I can study the various boot scripts for clues to see if the register use looks
consistent. I did see one hint that sticking 1 instead of 0 into one particular register
(I don't recall which one of the top of my head) seemed to indicate a conversational
boot instead of turnkey one.
Is there VMB.EXE documentation out there that I don't know how to Another approach came to mind that might be a lot
easier than swapping a humorously large number of virtual TU58 cassettes, or might be yet
another goose chase. One of my last recent eBay purchases before I quit both eBay and
PayPal in a huff over terms of service changes was a TK50 drive and both UNIBUS and QBUS
interface cards for it. All of the pieces are unknown quantities, and I'll need to
kludge a power supply and fabricate an interface cable, but the drive can theoretically be
plugged into my 730. If the 5.3 standalone backup knows about TK50 drives, then I may be
able to try backing up whatever is on the hard drives to TK50 cartridges.
Yes, the standalone BACKUP knows about the TK50. More generally, it
knows most any kind of TMSCP tape controller you might possibly attach
to the machine, and it can deal with them.
Next, if I get a TZ30 drive, I wonder if I might be
able to plug it into my Sun Ultra 60 running Solaris 8 (since that's my workingest
computer with both a SCSI interface and a familiar UNIXy operating system), and then use
that to slurp data off the backup cartridge(s) for further analysis. Does this approach
sound plausible? Unless somebody happens to know that the TZ30 is incompatible with
generic SCSI tape support on UNIX boxen, I think I'll contact the same seller I bought
the TK50 from and see if they have a TZ30 sitting around.
Yes, you should be able to plug a TZ30 in to pretty much any Unix box,
and read TK50 tapes off that.
Yet another approach might be doing the same scheme
with my system's existing magtape drive, and then trying to get my hands on a SCSI
magtape drive to plug into my Sun. But that would involve shipping a much larger and
heavier piece of equipment.
Agreed.
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
5:54 p.m.
On Jun 9, 2015, at 14:43 , Johnny Billquist <bqt at
update.uu.se> wrote:
Yes, R5 is more or less used the same on all VAXen, since this is used by VMB, which
almost all VAXen use in one form or another.
Thank you very much for the R5 details!
I presume that the other registers and the VMB.EXE that reads them are probably
machine-specific, as I see all sorts of arbitrary-looking numbers stuffed into them
depending on which device the ddnBOO.CMD file corresponds to.
Yes, you should be able to plug a TZ30 in to pretty
much any Unix box, and read TK50 tapes off that.
Cool. I'm looking for one now. The seller who sold me the TK50 doesn't have any,
and I've tried contacting another seller I found online. eBay and I are seeing other
people now, but the TZ30 listings I found there look overpriced to me, anyway. I'll
start new threads here and on VCF to see what I can scare out of the woodwork.
--
Mark J. Blair, NF6X <nf6x at nf6x.net>
http://www.nf6x.net/
6:30 p.m.
On 2015-06-09 23:54, Mark J. Blair wrote:
It is very bus and controller specific, so it varies extremely much, yes.
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
On Jun 9, 2015, at 14:43 , Johnny Billquist
<bqt at update.uu.se> wrote:
Yes, R5 is more or less used the same on all VAXen, since this is used by VMB, which
almost all VAXen use in one form or another.
Thank you very much for the R5 details!
I presume that the other registers and the VMB.EXE that reads them are probably
machine-specific, as I see all sorts of arbitrary-looking numbers stuffed into them
depending on which device the ddnBOO.CMD file corresponds to.
12 Jun
12 Jun
2:06 a.m.
New subject: First VAX-11/730 VMS Boot! (was: Re: VAX-11/730 %BOOT-F-Unexpected Machine Check)
Using a version 58 console tape image provided to me by one list member, and massaged into
a usable state by another list member, I just booted OpenVMS 7.3 off the R80 drive on my
VAX-11/730 for the first time since buying the machine. Woohoo!
For some reason, I was unable to do that with the version 57 images that I downloaded off
the net. Maybe there's something wrong with the VMB.EXE on those images? It always
complained of not being able to find the boot file when I tried using it.
I never got a login prompt, but perhaps that's because I booted with the write protect
switch on? It appeared to be trying to create or join a VAXcluster for a while, then said
something about loading MSCP disk server. I have plenty more experimentation ahead,
including seeing what's on that RL02 pack labeled something like "VMS53SYS"
(if I recall correctly).
My attempts to boot up the v5.3 standalone backup tape images I downloaded still
haven't succeeded. As suggested, I'll see if standalone backup might be on another
partition next time I work on the machine. I'd like to try backing up both the R80 and
the RL02 to tape if I can.
Eventually, I'd like to run an older version of VMS than 7.3 on it. Preferably,
something contemporary to when the 11/730 was still sold, or at least from before any sane
730 users upgraded to newer and faster VAXen. Of course, that assumes I can procure
suitable installation media, or usable images with which to create it.
--
Mark J. Blair, NF6X <nf6x at nf6x.net>
http://www.nf6x.net/
2:25 a.m.
New subject: First VAX-11/730 VMS Boot! (was: Re: VAX-11/730 %BOOT-F-Unexpected Machine Check)
Congrats!
On Fri, Jun 12, 2015 at 1:06 AM, Mark J. Blair <nf6x at nf6x.net> wrote:
Using a version 58 console tape image provided to me
by one list member,
and massaged into a usable state by another list member, I just booted
OpenVMS 7.3 off the R80 drive on my VAX-11/730 for the first time since
buying the machine. Woohoo!
For some reason, I was unable to do that with the version 57 images that I
downloaded off the net. Maybe there's something wrong with the VMB.EXE on
those images? It always complained of not being able to find the boot file
when I tried using it.
I never got a login prompt, but perhaps that's because I booted with the
write protect switch on? It appeared to be trying to create or join a
VAXcluster for a while, then said something about loading MSCP disk server.
I have plenty more experimentation ahead, including seeing what's on that
RL02 pack labeled something like "VMS53SYS" (if I recall correctly).
My attempts to boot up the v5.3 standalone backup tape images I downloaded
still haven't succeeded. As suggested, I'll see if standalone backup might
be on another partition next time I work on the machine. I'd like to try
backing up both the R80 and the RL02 to tape if I can.
Eventually, I'd like to run an older version of VMS than 7.3 on it.
Preferably, something contemporary to when the 11/730 was still sold, or at
least from before any sane 730 users upgraded to newer and faster VAXen. Of
course, that assumes I can procure suitable installation media, or usable
images with which to create it.
--
Mark J. Blair, NF6X <nf6x at nf6x.net>
http://www.nf6x.net/
2:28 a.m.
New subject: First VAX-11/730 VMS Boot! (was: Re: VAX-11/730 %BOOT-F-Unexpected Machine Check)
On Fri, Jun 12, 2015 at 2:06 AM, Mark J. Blair <nf6x at nf6x.net> wrote:
Using a version 58 console tape image provided to me
by one list member, and massaged into a usable state by another list member, I just booted
OpenVMS 7.3 off the R80 drive on my VAX-11/730 for the first time since buying the
machine. Woohoo!
Wow... I'm rather surprised it can run something that new, and on a
drive so small. I remember having problems fitting 6.0 on an RD53 (or
was it an RD54?) It fit, but wasn't straightforward to install. It
took a couple of tricks.
Eventually, I'd like to run an older version of
VMS than 7.3 on it. Preferably, something contemporary to when the 11/730 was still sold,
or at least from before any sane 730 users upgraded to newer and faster VAXen. Of course,
that assumes I can procure suitable installation media, or usable images with which to
create it.
Back in the day, we ran VMS 5.0 on our 11/730, because we needed a
machine to link our product against 5.0 to support our customers on
the same version. I also ran Ultrix 1.1 at an earlier time on the
same hardware. ISTR both Ultrix 1.1 and VMS 5.0 fit just fine on the
R80.
The other thing I did, for my own sanity, was I reordered the files on
the console TU58 into the precise order they were requested. Boot
time was on the order of 5 minutes, down from 25 minutes. Best I
could tell, the console 8085 cached the directory block(s), so the
tape practically streamed as it read file after file. Without all
that seeking, it was down to the serial speed the tape and console
were set to (38.4kbps?)
-ethan
2:46 a.m.
New subject: First VAX-11/730 VMS Boot! (was: Re: VAX-11/730 %BOOT-F-Unexpected Machine Check)
On Jun 11, 2015, at 23:25 , Paul Anderson <useddec at gmail.com> wrote:
Congrats!
Thanks! I was pretty surprised when the boot messages started coming out on the DECwriter
III!
On Jun 11, 2015, at 23:28 , Ethan Dicks <ethan.dicks at gmail.com> wrote:
Back in the day, we ran VMS 5.0 on our 11/730, because
we needed a
machine to link our product against 5.0 to support our customers on
the same version. I also ran Ultrix 1.1 at an earlier time on the
same hardware. ISTR both Ultrix 1.1 and VMS 5.0 fit just fine on the
R80.
Thanks for the data point. I'm hoping that I'll find good stuff on that RL02 pack
that's claiming to contain "VMS53SYS".
The other thing I did, for my own sanity, was I
reordered the files on
the console TU58 into the precise order they were requested. Boot
time was on the order of 5 minutes, down from 25 minutes. Best I
could tell, the console 8085 cached the directory block(s), so the
tape practically streamed as it read file after file. Without all
that seeking, it was down to the serial speed the tape and console
were set to (38.4kbps?)
38.4kbps is correct. The fellow from whom I bought the VAX mentioned that the included
tapes were "load optimized", but I haven't successfully read one without
errors so far. Not that it matters with tu58em, but the images I'm using also appear
to have been load-optimized, based on the order of files on their RT11 filesystems. Wow,
25 minutes of tape thrashing must have been unbearable!
--
Mark J. Blair, NF6X <nf6x at nf6x.net>
http://www.nf6x.net/
11:48 a.m.
New subject: First VAX-11/730 VMS Boot! Now about VMS distros
On Thu, 11 Jun 2015, Mark J. Blair wrote:
Eventually, I'd like to run an older version of
VMS than 7.3 on it.
Preferably, something contemporary to when the 11/730 was still sold, or
Gday Mark, it has been a long time since Rodondo Beach.
Our VAX-11/780 came with VAX/VMS Version 2 on it and the documentation had
that quaint early Digital quality that looked like it had been printed on
a Teletype Model 35.
Our VAX 8600 came with VAX/VMS version 4.X - this leads me to suggest that
you do not want a version contemporary to the VAX-11/730 (probably v2 or 3).
We ran VAX/VMS version 5.5-1 for many many years on our massive great VAX
8820, VAX 4000 model 500s, some VAX 2000s, and my VAX 3100/30. Later
releases of VMS 5.X are IMHO a good version.
I have in my possession a Digital VAX/VMS software and documentation
distribution on CDrom circa 1995 which includes VMS version 6.2. This is
the complete standard distro from the time and came in two boxes measuring
maybe 10 x 15 by 1 inch. I can send this to you for the postage if it is
of any use.
I also have a much larger complete OpenVMS VAX 7.0 distro on two TK50
cartridges (who knew?) and 10 pounds of paper docs in its original carton.
Anybody want it? I think it survived because somebody thought it was an
Alpha distro. Shipping of that would be a bit more money.
--
Richard Loken VE6BSV, Unix System Administrator : "Anybody can be a father
Athabasca University : but you have to earn
Athabasca, Alberta Canada : the title of 'daddy'"
** richardlo at admin.athabascau.ca ** : - Lynn Johnston
12:08 p.m.
New subject: First VAX-11/730 VMS Boot! Now about VMS distros
On Jun 12, 2015, at 08:48, Richard Loken <richardlo
at admin.athabascau.ca> wrote:
On Thu, 11 Jun 2015, Mark J. Blair wrote:
Great to hear from you again! Still have those ARS33 teletypes? I must say, when I decided
I needed to be an ASR33 owner again a year or so ago, it was a lot more expensive than
those two that I got off the junkpile outside the EE stockroom in the Steele building at
CIT! :) I seem to recall that you procured them for a PDP-8 restoration, but I don't
recall which model (and it wouldn't have meant much to me at the time, anyway).
Eventually, I'd like to run an older version
of VMS than 7.3 on it.
Preferably, something contemporary to when the 11/730 was still sold, or
Gday Mark, it has been a long time since Rodondo Beach. Our VAX-11/780 came with VAX/VMS Version 2 on it and
the documentation had
that quaint early Digital quality that looked like it had been printed on
a Teletype Model 35.
Our VAX 8600 came with VAX/VMS version 4.X - this leads me to suggest that
you do not want a version contemporary to the VAX-11/730 (probably v2 or 3).
We ran VAX/VMS version 5.5-1 for many many years on our massive great VAX
8820, VAX 4000 model 500s, some VAX 2000s, and my VAX 3100/30. Later
releases of VMS 5.X are IMHO a good version.
I'd like something "contemporary-ish". So I'll experiment with 3.x if I
can find installation media/images, but perhaps compromise on 5.x for something not too
new, but not too primitive. Maybe I'll think about some sort of drive emulation to let
me easily swap OSes, and to save wear and tear on the R80? My cage is full already with
the ethernet card in there, so maybe it should grow a Unibus extension? There's an
unused spot in the TU80's cabinet that might fit a chassis.
I have in my possession a Digital VAX/VMS software and
documentation
distribution on CDrom circa 1995 which includes VMS version 6.2. This is
the complete standard distro from the time and came in two boxes measuring
maybe 10 x 15 by 1 inch. I can send this to you for the postage if it is
of any use.
I also have a much larger complete OpenVMS VAX 7.0 distro on two TK50
cartridges (who knew?) and 10 pounds of paper docs in its original carton.
Anybody want it? I think it survived because somebody thought it was an
Alpha distro. Shipping of that would be a bit more money.
I would be interested in procuring both of those in order to put them on my
"hopefully scan/image and send to Bitsavers and Archive.org before I die" pile.
There's already some stuff from this system in that pile, including a 11/730 hardware
user's guide.
--
Mark J. Blair, NF6X <nf6x at nf6x.net>
http://www.nf6x.net/
4:51 p.m.
New subject: First VAX-11/730 VMS Boot! Now about VMS distros
On Fri, 12 Jun 2015, Mark J. Blair wrote:
> On Jun 12, 2015, at 08:48, Richard Loken <richardlo at admin.athabascau.ca>
> wrote:
> Gday Mark, it has been a long time since Rodondo
Beach.
Great to hear from you again! Still have those ARS33
teletypes? I must
say, when I decided I needed to be an ASR33 owner again a year or so ago,
it was a lot more expensive than those two that I got off the junkpile
outside the EE stockroom in the Steele building at CIT! :) I seem to
recall that you procured them for a PDP-8 restoration, but I don't recall
which model (and it wouldn't have meant much to me at the time, anyway).
Yes, Ross is still here too and he has the model 33s sitting on a cabinet
in his office doing nothing at all. Both Ross and I are now retirement
age so we will have to clean up the mess and take our favourite junk home
some day.
I'd like something "contemporary-ish".
So I'll experiment with 3.x if I
can find installation media/images, but perhaps compromise on 5.x for
something not too new, but not too primitive. Maybe I'll think about some
In that era we received all our software on 9 track take and that material
has been gone for decades. We never ran VMS v2, the machine was delivered
that way in 1981 but ours was a Unix shop so they promptly tore it off and
installed Unix V7 to be very quickly followed by BSD4.1. When the big boss
told us we were going from Unix to VMS for administrative systems, everybody
was quivering with rage including me and then I wound up babysitting the
VMS systems for their entire tenure of some 15 years. I grew quite fond of
VMS and have it running on my desktop even as I write this - it has been the
last VMS system in the place for at least a decade.
I would be interested in procuring both of those in
order to put them on
my "hopefully scan/image and send to Bitsavers and Archive.org before I
die" pile. There's already some stuff from this system in that pile,
including a 11/730 hardware user's guide.
Sit on thought for a while, there is no need to rush. One of us should find
out if this material is already archived some place before doing work that
might already be done.
--
Richard Loken VE6BSV, Unix System Administrator : "Anybody can be a father
Athabasca University : but you have to earn
Athabasca, Alberta Canada : the title of 'daddy'"
** richardlo at admin.athabascau.ca ** : - Lynn Johnston
4:44 p.m.
New subject: First VAX-11/730 VMS Boot! (was: Re: VAX-11/730 %BOOT-F-Unexpected Machine Check)
Using a version 58 console tape image provided to me
by one list member, and massaged into a usable state
by another list member, I just booted OpenVMS 7.3 off the R80 drive on my VAX-11/730 for
the first time since
buying the machine. Woohoo!
Well done. The 11/730 is, to me, an interesting machine and one of only 2 VAX families
that I would want to
run (the otber being the 11/780 -- if I had space for it). To build a complete VAX on 3
hex cards using
standard ICs is a good hack.
There is one bit of design craziness in the 11/730 IMHO. The CPU control store is dynamic
RAM. With the
result that the CPU has to wait for the control store to be refreshed every so often. Why
they didn't use
SRAM is something of a mystery....
[...]
Eventually, I'd like to run an older version of
VMS than 7.3 on it. Preferably, something contemporary to when
the 11/730 was still sold, or at least from before any sane 730 users upgraded to newer
and faster VAXen. Of
course, that assumes I can procure suitable installation media, or usable images with
which to create it.
I think my 11/730 was running VMS 4.7 when it was shut down.
A long-term project for me is to get my 11/730 running again. It was decommisioned and
dismantled, and I
have never got round to putting it all back together.
The CPU box looks fine. It contains the 3 CPU cards, the RB730 disk controller (no FP730
though), 4
megs of RAM (2 DEC cards, 2 NatSemi ones), a TSU05 tape controller and a DMF32
serial/parallel
card. All the ribbon cables have been removed, but I think I have them. Re-cabling that
tray under
the CPU is going to be 'fun'
The R80 is in bits. The HDA is intact, locked, and the spindle pulley is taped down so it
should be
OK. I have the chassis metalwork (in need of minor repairs) with the power harnesses and
switch/lamp
panel fitted. Also the PSU, spindle motor assembly and the 4 PCBs (R/W, microprocessor,
personality, servo)
So far I have not unearthed the box of screws and internal ribbon cables or the drive
belt. But those can
probably be obtained (the belt might be a problem....)
I have the half-rack to hold it, along with the slides -- somewhere. What to put in the
top bay? Originally
it was the TS05, which I do have. I am wondering how useful that is, and perhaps a Unibus
expansion box
would be more useful. But anyway...
I've read all the applicable manuals on bitsavers. Did DEC ever publish the 11/730
microcode source? That
would be interesting. Ditto the source for the 8085 firmware. And the R80 firmware. Was
there ever a
technical manual for the R80 (I have the service manual and printset, I am thinking of a
theory-of-operation
manual coverting the servo, etc)
As I said, a long-term project.
-tony
4:49 p.m.
New subject: First VAX-11/730 VMS Boot! (was: Re: VAX-11/730 %BOOT-F-Unexpected Machine Check)
I don't remember exactly what I have, but the binders that came with my system might
include an R80 manual (to be scanned, of course!).
--
Mark J. Blair, NF6X <nf6x at nf6x.net>
http://www.nf6x.net/
5:07 p.m.
New subject: First VAX-11/730 VMS Boot! (was: Re: VAX-11/730 %BOOT-F-Unexpected Machine Check)
I don't remember exactly what I have, but the
binders that came with my system might include an R80 manual (to
be scanned, of course!).
Bitsavers has the service manual, pocket service guide and printset.
The service manual is, as I would expect, a module replacement level manual. It is useful
because it
documents the drive diagnostics, how to use the 2 hex switches and the LEDs on the
microprocessor
board. Trying to debug an R80 without that is going to be a lot of work!
The pocket service guide is a quick-ref to the diagnostics and has a rather better
internal cable
diagram than the service manual
The printset is of course the full schematics. Alas no PROM dumps (not just the
microprocessor board [1])
but also the servo board has a couple of PROMs and the personality board has as state
machine
built round 82114s (PROMs with built-in latches). Something to investigate sometime.
[1] The control processor is an 8085, the firmware is mostly in 8355/8755 ROM+I/O chips. I
think there
is a conventional 2K ROM there too, There seems to be a total of 10K of firmware which
seems like
quite a lot.
I doubt DEC ever published the firmware source, but it can't hurt to ask here :-)
Oh yes, the PSU. The R80 printset shows the original version. Mine has a later PSU. The
RA81 printset
contains most of the schematics, for some odd reason the motor control relay PCB [2] is
missed out, my
guess is it was a simple error. The RA82 printset contains the complete PSU schematics.
[2] The spindle motor in all these drives is a capacitor start induction motor. The
capactor is in the top
chassis with the logic PCBs. Unlike most such motors, the starting winding is not
controlled by a speed
operated centrifugal switch. Rather, there are 2 relays in the PSU, one for the run
winding, one for the
starting winding. They are controlled by the microprocessor, which checks the spindle
speed via the
optoswitch on the bottom of the HDA
The RM80 is an R80 with an external massbus interface. AFAIK all RM80 drive spares, docs,
etc apply
to the R80. The RA80 is also very similar (different personality (interface) PCB,
different firmware, but
otherwise much the same). The RA81 and RA82 are electroncially quite different, but
mechanically
similar and it's worth reading their manuals with that in mind. The RA82 printset (I
think) has some
information on how the HDA was assembled. It appears that the spindle/disks are assembled
into the lower metal case, the upper case is fitted and bolted down, then the
positioner/heads slides in
from the front (I assume with some tool to keep the
heads apart). Then the head and positioner
cables plug into a PCB on HDA front cover
which fits in place and is clipped down. Of course
all this has to be done in a clean room. But for some odd reason the schematics of that
HDA head PCB are in the printset, for all they are pretty much useless for repair (custom
ICs
that you can't get to without dismantling the HDA in a clean room).
-tony
5:54 p.m.
New subject: Need help: Reading 800 bpi NRZI 9 track tapes
My Qualstar 3418 has gone kaput and I need to find someone to read
single (Unix) tape written on a TU16 at 800 BPI. I can handle 1600,
3200 and 6250 just fine, but not 800.
Would anyone in the US be willing to help out? I can ship some money
your way if that matters. The tape has been baked and cleaned, so no
sticky problems.
Thanks,
--Chuck
6:23 p.m.
New subject: Need help: Reading 800 bpi NRZI 9 track tapes
On Jun 12, 2015, at 14:54 , Chuck Guzis <cclist at
sydex.com> wrote:
My Qualstar 3418 has gone kaput and I need to find someone to read single (Unix) tape
written on a TU16 at 800 BPI. I can handle 1600, 3200 and 6250 just fine, but not 800.
Would anyone in the US be willing to help out? I can ship some money your way if that
matters. The tape has been baked and cleaned, so no sticky problems.
Another list member who lives in my area has offered to loan me his SCSI magtape drive so
I can try to dump some tapes created on my VAX-11/730. If that all comes together (and
assuming it will handle 800 BPI), I'd be happy to help. My plan is to hook it up to my
Sun Ultra 60 running Solaris 8. I'm in southern California.
--
Mark J. Blair, NF6X <nf6x at nf6x.net>
http://www.nf6x.net/
7:02 p.m.
New subject: Need help: Reading 800 bpi NRZI 9 track tapes
On 06/12/2015 03:23 PM, Mark J. Blair wrote:
Much appreciated, Mark--800 bpi NRZI is uncommon; my Qualstar could
handle it only as read-only.
Keep me posted!
Thanks,
Chuck
On Jun 12, 2015, at 14:54 , Chuck Guzis
<cclist at sydex.com> wrote:
My Qualstar 3418 has gone kaput and I need to find someone to read single (Unix) tape
written on a TU16 at 800 BPI. I can handle 1600, 3200 and 6250 just fine, but not 800.
Would anyone in the US be willing to help out? I can ship some money your way if that
matters. The tape has been baked and cleaned, so no sticky problems.
Another list member who lives in my area has offered to loan me his SCSI magtape drive so
I can try to dump some tapes created on my VAX-11/730. If that all comes together (and
assuming it will handle 800 BPI), I'd be happy to help. My plan is to hook it up to my
Sun Ultra 60 running Solaris 8. I'm in southern California.
3329
days inactive
3332
days old
17 comments
8 participants
participants (8)
-
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
bqt＠update.uu.se -
cclist＠sydex.com -
cctalk＠beyondthepale.ie -
ethan.dicks＠gmail.com -
nf6x＠nf6x.net -
richardlo＠admin.athabascau.ca -
useddec＠gmail.com