10 Feb
2018
10 Feb
'18
6:45 a.m.
From: Grant Taylor cctalk at
gtaylor.tnetconsulting.net
Sorry if this comes across wrong. ... I'm replying
in an attempt to
provide a counter point for a discussion of reality. So please don't
take this as an attack on you, or your laudable appeal.
No problem!
When I write things for my personal site, I want them
first and
foremost to be on my personal site.
Right, but my question is 'why are you writing them?' Is it just because you
enjoy writing, or do you do it in an attempt to convey information to others?
(Or perhaps some motivation I haven't guessed?)
Because if it's the latter, my point is that people are more likely to find
it, when they're looking for info on a topic, if it's part of something like
the CHWiki, than they are on individual Web sites.
Not only can it be included in an organized way (so that one can start with
the home page, and hopefully click on a few links to get to the topic one's
interested in), but Google et al (the _only_ way people are likely to find a
writeup in a personal Web-site) are likely to show the CHWiki page on a topic
fairly high in their search output. (I just tried a few samples to verify
that claim, so it's not just a supposition on my part! :-)
I'm not sure how their display selection algorithm works (and I gather they
are always tweaking it, both in attempt to make the results more useful, but
also to prevent people from gaming it), but it does seem to like sites that
have a mass of content.
So if you're going to put all that work into writing something up, _and_
the goal is for people to use it...
Since I'm going to write for my site first, and
I'm having to make time
to do so ... I think it's more important to get things recorded
somewhere, even if it's not the ideal location, than it is to delay
getting them recorded elsewhere, if ever.
I agree it's better to have stuff online in a private site, than not at
all. I have done this quite a bit myself, e.g.:
http://www.chiappa.net/~jnc/tech/V6Unix.html
http://www.chiappa.net/~jnc/tech/multics/MulticsPanels.html
http://ana-3.lcs.mit.edu/~jnc/tech/DECIndicatorPanels.html
so I do understand going that way. (The last two could easily be moved to the
CHWiki, if I had the time/energy...)
But speaking of the time to write things, that's another advantage of using
the CHWiki - if you want to mention some technical term/concept, on the
CHWiki you can just link to it with '[[xxx']]', and if some novice reading
the article needs to know more about that topic, they just click on the link;
no need to write explanatory text yourself.
E.g. my 'Bringing up V6 Unix on the Ersatz-11 PDP-11 Emulator' page would
probably have benefitted from that, and been a bit less long-winded as
a result...
Noel
11 Feb
11 Feb
11:14 a.m.
On 02/10/2018 07:45 AM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote:
Right, but my question is 'why are you writing
them?' Is it just because
you enjoy writing, or do you do it in an attempt to convey information
to others? (Or perhaps some motivation I haven't guessed?)
Because I want to?
Because I want to document something that I've done or learned.
Because I want to share said documentation.
Because I want to (hopefully) help others.
Because I want others to be able to learn from my toil.
Because if it's the latter, my point is that
people are more likely
to find it, when they're looking for info on a topic, if it's part of
something like the CHWiki, than they are on individual Web sites.
I hear what you're saying. However I question the validity of it.
For starters, I can't say as I've knowingly been to the CHWiki as I've
been researching things over the years. Maybe I have and would
recognize it when I see it.
So, I spent some time searching the thread for the CHWiki's address.
And I've not found what I would think to be it yet. Further, searching
Google for CHWiki came up with things that I think were name collisions.
As you pointed out and commented about the links you provided, they are
online somewhere other than the CHWiki.
So what compels me to put content on someone else's site and not my site?
Maybe it's silly, but I view my site as somewhat of it's own brand (as
minimal ~> non-existent as it may be) and I use it as my own reference.
One of my main reasons for putting things on my site (other than it
being somewhere that I control) is that I can search my site and use it
as my own notes. - Notes that just happen to be public for others to
learn from.
Not only can it be included in an organized way (so
that one can start
with the home page, and hopefully click on a few links to get to the topic
one's interested in), but Google et al (the _only_ way people are likely
to find a writeup in a personal Web-site)
I'm going to have to disagree with you.
I think that I find the vast majority of interesting content via social
networks, when people publish links to their articles on their own sites.
I've probably amassed over 200 different sites ~> authors that I keep
periodic tabs on via RSS feeds. Ultimately I can argue that I'm finding
/more/ valuable content this way than I would if I were to only find
things in a centralized location.
I also see a number of interesting links float through mailing lists and
newsgroups. Point in case, I'll likely be going through your website (I
believe again) based on the links you provided below.
Since I'm playing the part of the Devils Advocate, I'd be more likely to
publish things on (what I consider to be) an even bigger and more well
known Wiki, namely Wikipedia.
I'm sorry, but you haven't provided any compelling reason for /me/ to
publish things somewhere else before I publish it on my own site.
I'd like to restate that I have zero qualms with people taking what they
learn from my site and using it to grow ideas and develop their own
articles. - I simply ask that they give me credit or cite me / my site
as a source.
To this end, I've had a few people contact me and ask for permission to
publish derived works. I've responded to all of such requests with
humility that they asked, appreciation for the consideration, and my
blessing to go forward and create something better.
I have walked on the shoulders of giants that came before me, and I'm
happy to have others walk on my shoulders (not that I'm a giant).
I'm not sure how their display selection algorithm
works (and I gather
they are always tweaking it, both in attempt to make the results more
useful, but also to prevent people from gaming it), but it does seem to
like sites that have a mass of content.
I think we've had different experiences.
The number of links to a site does help, but I believe it's a ratio to
the number of pages on the site. At least that's my impression.
So if you're going to put all that work into
writing something up, _and_
the goal is for people to use it...
I believe that people can find things on my site, as small as it is.
I agree it's better to have stuff online in a
private site, than not at
all. I have done this quite a bit myself, e.g.:
http://www.chiappa.net/~jnc/tech/V6Unix.html
http://www.chiappa.net/~jnc/tech/multics/MulticsPanels.html
http://ana-3.lcs.mit.edu/~jnc/tech/DECIndicatorPanels.html
so I do understand going that way. (The last two could easily be moved
to the CHWiki, if I had the time/energy...)
So, I glibly observe, that it seems as if you are asking us to do
something different than you yourself are currently doing, for much the
same reasoning that I outlined.
But speaking of the time to write things, that's
another advantage of
using the CHWiki - if you want to mention some technical term/concept,
on the CHWiki you can just link to it with '[[xxx']]', and if some novice
reading the article needs to know more about that topic, they just click
on the link; no need to write explanatory text yourself.
Or I can put an <abbr> or <a> tag (pairs) around content and create new
pages on my site, thus growing my site's value to myself and others.
E.g. my 'Bringing up V6 Unix on the Ersatz-11
PDP-11 Emulator' page would
probably have benefitted from that, and been a bit less long-winded as
a result...
I don't see a reason that you can't link from your site to CHWiki, or
anywhere else for that matter, for additional content.
I guess that I can be selfish and say that my site is first and foremost
for me. If others happen to be able to learn from or benefit from it,
GREAT! But I'm going to do things for me, where I want (on my site)
first and foremost.
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
11:19 a.m.
On 02/11/2018 12:14 PM, Grant Taylor via cctalk wrote:
As you pointed out and commented about the links you
provided, they are
online somewhere other than the CHWiki.
I also see a LOT of content that could go on CHWiki, et al, that pass
through mailing lists and newsgroups. Both of which are mediums that do
not intersect CHWiki or the World Wide Web. - I would be shocked if
there aren't some participants to various mailing lists / newsgroups
that are sharing their expertise of things via something they can access
compared to not sharing with something that they can't (or won't)
access, namely WWW.
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
12:31 p.m.
On 11/02/18 19:14, Grant Taylor via cctalk wrote:
So what compels me to put content on someone else's site and not my site?
Nothing but if you're OK with the CHWiki linking to your site (or even
wholesale copying articles with an attribution) that would be a start
(even if it's someone other than you doing it).
There are already articles that come from Wikipedia (with attribution)
so I assume that linking to other sites (or lifting articles with
permission) would be OK too.
I guess that I can be selfish and say that my site is
first and
foremost for me. If others happen to be able to learn from or benefit
from it, GREAT! But I'm going to do things for me, where I want (on
my site) first and foremost.
One advantage (for the rest of us, at least) might be that the CHWiki
might outlast your site (although if you've asked archive.org to keep
tabs on your site, that may not be the case I suppose).
Antonio
--
Antonio Carlini
arcarlini at iee.org
1:46 p.m.
On 02/11/2018 01:31 PM, Antonio Carlini via cctalk wrote:
Nothing but if you're OK with the CHWiki linking
to your site (or even
wholesale copying articles with an attribution) that would be a start
(even if it's someone other than you doing it).
I would like other sites to link to my site. I view that social link
graph as part of the value of the web. (I also think it's part of
Google's secret sauce.)
I'm perfectly fine with both links to my site, or wholesale copies
/with/ proper credit / attribution.
There are already articles that come from Wikipedia
(with attribution)
so I assume that linking to other sites (or lifting articles with
permission) would be OK too.
*nod*
One advantage (for the rest of us, at least) might be
that the CHWiki
might outlast your site (although if you've asked archive.org to keep
tabs on your site, that may not be the case I suppose).
That is entirely possible. Of course the opposite is also possible too.
That's one of the reasons I like to have copies of things on my site,
with proper attribution to where it's copied from.
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
12 Feb
12 Feb
4:39 p.m.
. . . people are more likely to find
it, when they're looking for info on a topic, if it's part of something like
the CHWiki, than they are on individual Web sites.
. . . and, there is an amazing amount of stuff to glean from the archives
of this mailing list (although it may not survive all disasters).
And, all that you need to do, to find this information about various
aspects of finding things, is to be able to guess that it is
filed under:
"Re: How to enable USB drives in both Windows 98SE AND MS-DOS 7.1."
We don't seem to ever get around to adjusting subject lines, which permits
incorrect subject line to be an impediment to searching.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
2456
days inactive
2459
days old
5 comments
4 participants
participants (4)
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a.carlini＠ntlworld.com -
cctalk＠gtaylor.tnetconsulting.net -
cisin＠xenosoft.com -
jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu