9 Oct
2005
9 Oct
'05
6:45 p.m.
Subject: Re: Archival storage
From: Patrick Finnegan <pat at computer-refuge.org>
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 15:39:22 -0500
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at
classiccmp.org>
Vintage Computer Festival declared on Sunday 09 October 2005 03:12 pm:
I've done that exactly. The oldest of the lot is a ST506 from 1982 that
still runs CP/M and still has stiction since day one! Other than the
need to give it a manual twist it's been relaible. Of course that data
is backed up to a newer Quantum 31mb (AKA RD52) and thats been backed
up to a newer 45MB SCSI and a newer still 52mb SCSI and so on. Along with
8", 5.25, and 3.5" floppy copies and those on the PCs where that process
sorta repeats itself it would be hard to create a total loss.
The key is many copies, in many places and at lest a few on current
or reasonably current media.
Allison
On Sun, 9 Oct 2005, James Fogg wrote:
And make sure you keep them spinning, so that you can tell when they
fail, along with a redundant copy on another machine which you mirror to
periodically (even automatically once every N days is fine). Migrate to
newer media when the old stuff is pretty much obsolete.
If you manage to do that, your data will long outlast any CDRs that you
store in a filing cabinet next to the computer(s). Does anyone know if there are optical formats
that can reliably
deliver 10 year shelf-life? How does one achieve it (different types
of cd-r chemistry, using cd-rom, etc)?
Just use hard drives. Cheap, high capacity, and reliable. 
9 Oct
9 Oct
7:14 p.m.
I've done that exactly. The oldest of the lot is a
ST506 from 1982 that
still runs CP/M and still has stiction since day one!
With the old MFM/RLL drives, of course, you also need to preserve the controller and maybe
the hardware below that. SCSI is pretty straightforward, however.
I wonder how well floppies would survive if they were vacuum-packed and stored in a dark
cool place. IOW, are there any chemical reactions that contribute to the degradation of
the medium other than those created by heat and air and environmental contaminants.
I suppose that there's always that gold-plated disc that was attached to Voyager...
:)
--Chuck
10 Oct
10 Oct
4:40 a.m.
On Sun, 9 Oct 2005, Chuck Guzis wrote:
I wonder how well floppies would survive if they were
vacuum-packed and
stored in a dark cool place. IOW, are there any chemical reactions that
contribute to the degradation of the medium other than those created by
heat and air and environmental contaminants.
An interesting proposition. Does plastic still out-gas even if it's
vacuum-packed?
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
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12:28 p.m.
Vintage Computer Festival wrote:
On Sun, 9 Oct 2005, Chuck Guzis wrote:
I would suspect yes ... I think too the computer could be kept at just
above zero
in a dark place in a light vacuum too.
I wonder how well floppies would survive if they
were vacuum-packed and
stored in a dark cool place. IOW, are there any chemical reactions that
contribute to the degradation of the medium other than those created by
heat and air and environmental contaminants.
An interesting proposition. Does plastic still out-gas even if it's
vacuum-packed?
2:15 p.m.
On 10/10/2005 at 10:28 AM woodelf wrote:
I would suspect yes ... I think too the computer could
be kept at just
above zero
in a dark place in a light vacuum too.
What I was wondering about was if a number of diskettes were packed in a vacuum-sealed
container and placed in an underground "time capsule" or a building's
cornerstone, if they'd survive 100 or so years...
Cheers,
Chuck
4:49 p.m.
On Mon, 10 Oct 2005, Chuck Guzis wrote:
What I was wondering about was if a number of
diskettes were packed in a
vacuum-sealed container and placed in an underground "time capsule" or a
building's cornerstone, if they'd survive 100 or so years...
Right, and my question still is, would the MEDIA stop out-gassing if it
was vacuum-packed?
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ]
[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]
5:10 p.m.
On 10/10/2005 at 1:49 PM Vintage Computer Festival wrote:
Right, and my question still is, would the MEDIA stop
out-gassing if it
was vacuum-packed?
I wonder if it'd prbably be the reverse, that the vacuum would encourage "boiling
off" or volatile compounds. Maybe media should be packed under high-pressure dry
nitrogen or argon.
Cheers,
Chuck
11 Oct
11 Oct
9:32 a.m.
Vintage Computer Festival wrote:
On Mon, 10 Oct 2005, Chuck Guzis wrote:
Absolutely not. It would probably outgas faster.
Peace... Sridhar
What I was wondering about was if a number of
diskettes were packed in a
vacuum-sealed container and placed in an underground "time capsule" or a
building's cornerstone, if they'd survive 100 or so years...
Right, and my question still is, would the MEDIA stop out-gassing if it
was vacuum-packed? 
10 Oct
10 Oct
2:15 p.m.
New subject: E&L Instruments Fox 1 Z80 Trainer chip questions
Hi Folks,
I recently obtained a used E&L Instruments MT-80Z microprocessor trainer.
My goal is to teach my kids a little about microprocessors.
The trainer has 3 empty IC sockets U1-40 pin, U10-40 pin and U-11-28 pin.
The parts are missing on the board that contains the keyboard and 7 segment
displays. Neither of which work, so I suspect those empty sockets require a
chip or two for operations.
The parts are probably Zilog or Intel PIO's and a CTC (Counter Clock Timer).
Before I experiment I thought I'd run it up the flag pole and ask if anyone
can identify what goes in the sockets.
Thanks Robo
10:33 a.m.
New subject: E&L Instruments Fox 1 Z80 Trainer chip questions
Check with Mike Haas <dogas at bellsouth.net>. I gave him one of the E&L
trainers but I'm not sure of the model.
Joe
At 02:15 PM 10/10/05 -0400, you wrote:
Hi Folks,
I recently obtained a used E&L Instruments MT-80Z microprocessor trainer.
My goal is to teach my kids a little about microprocessors.
The trainer has 3 empty IC sockets U1-40 pin, U10-40 pin and U-11-28 pin.
The parts are missing on the board that contains the keyboard and 7 segment
displays. Neither of which work, so I suspect those empty sockets require a
chip or two for operations.
The parts are probably Zilog or Intel PIO's and a CTC (Counter Clock Timer).
Before I experiment I thought I'd run it up the flag pole and ask if anyone
can identify what goes in the sockets.
Thanks Robo
12:28 p.m.
New subject: E&L Instruments Fox 1 Z80 Trainer chip questions
Hi Folks,
I recently obtained a used E&L Instruments MT-80Z microprocessor trainer.
My goal is to teach my kids a little about microprocessors.
The trainer has 3 empty IC sockets U1-40 pin, U10-40 pin and U-11-28 pin.
The parts are missing on the board that contains the keyboard and 7 segment
displays. Neither of which work, so I suspect those empty sockets require a
chip or two for operations.
The parts are probably Zilog or Intel PIO's and a CTC (Counter Clock Timer).
Before I experiment I thought I'd run it up the flag pole and ask if anyone
can identify what goes in the sockets.
My memory seems to say that the Zilog parts at least had pretty strange
pinouts, even for things like power connections. You should be able to
trace enough of the pins (power, clock, data bus would be a start) to see
if the Z80 PIO and CTC could possibly be the right parts.
-tony
6:38 p.m.
New subject: E&L Instruments Fox 1 Z80 Trainer chip questions
On 10/10/05, ROBO5.8 <robo58 at optonline.net> wrote:
Hi Folks,
I recently obtained a used E&L Instruments MT-80Z microprocessor trainer.
My goal is to teach my kids a little about microprocessors.
The trainer has 3 empty IC sockets U1-40 pin, U10-40 pin and U-11-28 pin.
The parts are missing on the board that contains the keyboard and 7 segment
displays. Neither of which work, so I suspect those empty sockets require a
chip or two for operations.
The parts are probably Zilog or Intel PIO's and a CTC (Counter Clock Timer).
Good guess. U10 is an optional PIO. U11 is an optional CTC. U1 is
where the Z80 goes in the MPF-1. On the MT-80Z the Z80 is moved to
the second PCB and U1 is empty on the original PCB.
Schematics for the original MPF-1 board can be found here:
http://themotionstore.com/leeedavison/z80/mpf1/index.html
I have never found an online schematic or manual for the MT-80Z. The
monitor EPROM in the MT-80Z I have is slightly different than the
monitor EPROM in the MPF-1, but I think the changes are very minor.
11 Oct
11 Oct
8:20 a.m.
New subject: Glen *** : E&L Instruments Fox 1 Z80 Trainer chip questions
Hi Glen
Thanks for the assistance. Its now up and running.
Can you advise where I might get information on the various ports on both
boards and/or documentation on the trainer?
Thanks Robo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Glen Slick" <glen.slick at gmail.com>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 6:38 PM
Subject: Re: E&L Instruments Fox 1 Z80 Trainer chip questions
On 10/10/05, ROBO5.8 <robo58 at optonline.net>
wrote:
Hi Folks,
I recently obtained a used E&L Instruments MT-80Z microprocessor trainer.
My goal is to teach my kids a little about microprocessors.
The trainer has 3 empty IC sockets U1-40 pin, U10-40 pin and U-11-28 pin.
The parts are missing on the board that contains the keyboard and 7
segment
displays. Neither of which work, so I suspect those empty sockets
require a
chip or two for operations.
The parts are probably Zilog or Intel PIO's and a CTC (Counter Clock
Timer).
Good guess. U10 is an optional PIO. U11 is an optional CTC. U1 is
where the Z80 goes in the MPF-1. On the MT-80Z the Z80 is moved to
the second PCB and U1 is empty on the original PCB.
Schematics for the original MPF-1 board can be found here:
http://themotionstore.com/leeedavison/z80/mpf1/index.html
I have never found an online schematic or manual for the MT-80Z. The
monitor EPROM in the MT-80Z I have is slightly different than the
monitor EPROM in the MPF-1, but I think the changes are very minor.
10 Oct
10 Oct
4:45 p.m.
>>I wonder how well floppies would survive if
they were vacuum-packed and
>>stored in a dark cool place. IOW, are there any chemical reactions that
>>contribute to the degradation of the medium other than those created by
>>heat and air and environmental contaminants.
>An interesting proposition. Does plastic still out-gas even if it's
>vacuum-packed?
On Mon, 10 Oct 2005, woodelf wrote:
I would suspect yes ... I think too the computer
could be kept at just
above zero
in a dark place in a light vacuum too.
How much would it cost to move Sellam's collection
to the dark side of the moon?
8:10 p.m.
On Mon, 10 Oct 2005, Fred Cisin wrote:
How much would it cost to move Sellam's collection
to the dark side of
the moon?
Please let me know if you figure it out. I've been trying to find a way
off this stupid planet for a while now.
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ]
[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]
12:31 p.m.
An interesting proposition. Does plastic still
out-gas even if it's
vacuum-packed?
Probably faster. I would think a helium environment would be better, but I
am no chemist. 
4:13 p.m.
Reply-to: "General Discussion: On-Topic and
Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
An interesting proposition. Does plastic still
out-gas even if it's
vacuum-packed?
Probably faster. I would think a helium environment would be better, but I
am no chemist.
6865
days inactive
6867
days old
18 comments
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ajp166＠bellatlantic.net -
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bfranchuk＠jetnet.ab.ca -
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cisin＠xenosoft.com -
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vcf＠siconic.com