28 Apr
2002
28 Apr
'02
12:47 a.m.
From: r. 'bear' stricklin
<red(a)bears.org>
On Tue, 23 Apr 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote:
> The year I got my first PC/AT (I used 'em at
work all the time, but
didn't get
> one at home for a while.) I bought a 25 MHz
clone (NEAT architecture)
with 8
> MB RAM and a pair of 700 MB ESDI drives for
$1080. That was with a
1kx768x16
> VGA display board. I hacked it to work with a
fixed-frequency
(sync-on-green)
> monitor I had sitting around. It was WONDERFUL.
That was in early
'89.
['bear' replied:]
This struck me as being blatantly wrong, since it
seemed to me (if I
recalled) that in early 1989 your 8 MB of RAM would've run nearly $1k by
itself.
So I checked the January 1990 issue of "Byte". These are directly from
the
cheap ads at the back, and representative of prices a
year (loosely)
after your conjectured purchase date:
[snip prices]
I admit some margin of error is to be expected, but
these
prices---sampled
fully eight or nine months after your stated date---do
not come close to
corroborating your statements. In consideration of this, I must humbly
submit that you are totally full of shit, or at the very least have made
a
grave typographical error.
From my files, an invoice from 1990:
25 MHz 80386, motherboard, case, power supply, 4MB RAM, 1.44 MB FDD, 100MB
HD, no i/o, no video, no modem
$1450, which is exactly in line with the prices you quoted.
Ah, but we must remember that Richard buys Windows for $2. He never pays
what we have to pay, nor does he stoop to using bullshit systems like we do
(Apple, C64, Unix, Amiga).
Richard Erlacher is simply a troll. Or an Alzheimer's victim. Or both.
Yes, he has some "stuff" which he will sometimes share, but it's hardly
worth the amount of crap we put up with here, not to mention that his
crappy posts are deliberately formatted in a way which most classiccmpers
find hard to read.
As for the rest of you honking geese
Just a minute here! Some of my best friends are geese!
http://members.aol.com/gusggoose
Glen
0/0
28 Apr
28 Apr
12:18 p.m.
You, 'bear,' need to go back and reread what you've previously written. The
25MHz NEAT clone I bought in '89 was a '286, which, as I explained, was chosen
because it was slightly faster than the much more costly '386's of the time,
but cost MUCH less. It was, by the way, acquired through an ad in the
Computer Shopper, which I followed closely when I was shopping for a "deal"
since they didn't have an eBay yet.
I often found decent prices in Computer Shopper, and seldom even bothered to
read BYTE, which Will Jennings, who got the old BYTE and other mags from my
basement, will support, since I didn't read it much after '83-'84 by which
time the articles were mainly unpaid advertising for one product or another
and the prices from their advertisers reflected the high cost of the ads.
more below ...
If you've got a format at which everyone has arrived after much discussion,
I'd like to be informed as to what it is, provided that everyone else is in
agreement. I've seen several versions, and tried them all. They seem, all of
them, to illicit about the same amount of complaint.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Glen Goodwin" <acme_ent(a)bellsouth.net>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 11:47 PM
Subject: BS al a Erlacher
Ads from sellers willing to advertise
in BYTE were seldom "cheap" enough to be
interesting. If you bought from those vendors, you got what you deserved, as
is borne out by the prices you've listed.
From: r.
'bear' stricklin <red(a)bears.org>
On Tue, 23 Apr 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote:
> The year I got my first PC/AT (I used
'em at work all the time, but
didn't get
> one at home for a while.) I bought a 25 MHz
clone (NEAT architecture)
with 8
> MB RAM and a pair of 700 MB ESDI drives for
$1080. That was with a
1kx768x16
> VGA display board. I hacked it to work with
a fixed-frequency
(sync-on-green)
> monitor I had sitting around. It was
WONDERFUL. That was in early
'89.
['bear' replied:]
This struck me as being blatantly wrong, since it
seemed to me (if I
recalled) that in early 1989 your 8 MB of RAM would've run nearly $1k by
itself.
So I checked the January 1990 issue of
"Byte". These are directly from
the
cheap ads at the back, and representative of
prices a year (loosely)
after your conjectured purchase date:
[snip prices]
READ IT AGAIN, only LOOK FOR a '286/25, which is what I bought.
I admit some margin of error is to be expected,
but these
prices---sampled
fully eight or nine months after your stated
date---do not come close to
corroborating your statements. In consideration of this, I must humbly
submit that you are totally full of shit, or at the very least have made
a grave typographical error.
From my files, an invoice from 1990:
25 MHz 80386, motherboard, case, power supply, 4MB RAM, 1.44 MB FDD, 100MB HD, no i/o, no video, no modem
I didn't list a modem either since I had external modems, and since they
didn't matter much back then.
$1450, which is exactly in line with the prices you
quoted.
Ah, but we must remember that Richard buys Windows for $2. He never pays
what we have to pay, nor does he stoop to using bullshit systems like we do
(Apple, C64, Unix, Amiga).
and it was their COST, among other things, that led me to avoid them.
You could buy cheap software too, if you were willing to get out there and
look.
Richard Erlacher is simply a troll. Or an Alzheimer's victim. Or both.
Yes, he has some "stuff" which he will sometimes share, but it's hardly
worth the amount of crap we put up with here, not to mention that his
crappy posts are deliberately formatted in a way which most classiccmpers
find hard to read.
Now, if you'd tell me PRECISELY how to format my posts to meet the spec's for
this list, I'd happily conform.
The reason I got onto this list was that I wanted to give away a bunch of
hardware to anyone who was willing to pay the cost of getting it shipped. I
needed the space. I had lots of folks willing to let me pack it (ALL of it,
no preferences for anything) at my expense and ship it to them on the
off-chance they'd be willing to reimburse me for my costs. One guy, Sellam
Ismail, even wanted me to palletize it for him and haul it to the shipper of
his choice, some 40 miles away. Later, when I agreed to purchase a 2-box
Altos computer system for him for just a few bucks, he backed out of the deal
after I'd laid out the dough. That convinced me that dealing with him in any
way was a bad idea. I ended up giving those two boxes to Will Jennings just
to get 'em out of here, but not until after I had discarded the vast majority
of what I was offering.
I'm not a collector, and I have little use for hardware that can't do useful
work other machines I have can't do, or at least can't do more conveniently.
There are a very few exceptions.
I've gotten considerable amusement, some useful information, and even a little
hardware/software that was of considerable value from my 3-4 years hanging on
this list. I can't explain why I remember things that you, 'bear,'
don't,
except perhaps in that I had the information and you didn't. I don't always
read the posts on the list as thoroughly and completely as I should, before
reacting, and it's clear I'm not alone in that.
As for the rest of you honking geese
Just a minute here! Some of my best friends are geese!
http://members.aol.com/gusggoose
Glen
0/0
3:39 p.m.
I'll just say now that I haven't read all the threads referred to, nor will
I.
But given the relative reputations of those involved, I know who I'm
siding with, and that's too bad, in the sense that some of the things
that might have been said were of value. I know what value I give Dicks
statements. 80% of them are on electronics construction, and I have
respect for those. But Dick really should learn which things he excells
at and which he doesn't.
A well phrased rant is still just a rant, only it wastes more of peoples
time,
who care to read it, than a succinct one.
I have a sneaking suspicion that the added grammar really doesn't add
much to the value of the post at all.
John A.
OH, that's what B.S. is!
8:31 p.m.
OH, that's what B.S. is!
Well, what's B.S. ?
Binary Substitute ?
Gruss
H.
--
VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen
http://www.vcfe.org/
10:30 p.m.
Looks as though someone's p*ssed because he doesn't read and can't write and
spell.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Allain" <allain(a)panix.com>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2002 2:39 PM
Subject: Re: BS al a Erlacher
I'll just say now that I haven't read all the
threads referred to, nor will
I.
But given the relative reputations of those involved, I know who I'm
siding with, and that's too bad, in the sense that some of the things
that might have been said were of value. I know what value I give Dicks
statements. 80% of them are on electronics construction, and I have
respect for those. But Dick really should learn which things he excells
at and which he doesn't.
A well phrased rant is still just a rant, only it wastes more of peoples
time,
who care to read it, than a succinct one.
I have a sneaking suspicion that the added grammar really doesn't add
much to the value of the post at all.
John A.
OH, that's what B.S. is!
11:56 p.m.
Since I haven't seen anyone ask this yet, I'll bite:
Dick, do you actually have any interest in old machines or are you just
trolling the list? All of the messages I've read from you lately strongly
imply that you have no real interest toying with or using the systems we
normally talk about on this list.
I'm not trying to start a war, I'm just trying to ask an honest
question (and perhaps giving you a chance to redeem yourself from the
last round of flames).
-- Pat
On Sun, 28 Apr 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote:
Looks as though someone's p*ssed because he
doesn't read and can't write and
spell.
Dick
29 Apr
29 Apr
3:42 a.m.
If you'd read my earlier post, you'd know that my interest was in giving away
the hardware I had available. The reason was that, while I still use some of
the old boxes I have from back in the '70's, and while I still use the ones
that do something the newer ones don't, or simply do it more conveniently, I
don't have any interest in keeping non-functional or redundant hardware lying
about.
I started out trying to give away a bunch of stuff, provided lists, etc, but,
rather than replies form folks interested in having this or that, I got a
number of replies instead that simply said, "I'll take it all, ship it to
..."
with no offer to participate, say, by paying for the packing and shipping.
Some of the old hardware I've had, particularly the earliest stuff from
'76-77, is still occasionally used and I keep it working as opportunity avails
itself. I wouldn't say I toy with 'em however. I hot-rod the things from
time to time, just to see what sort of speed could have come from them, under
circumstances that didn't then exist, but I certainly don't pretend I see them
as being in any sense better than what's out there today.
About that round of flames, I'm not particularly thin-skinned, though I do
become irritated when I'm misquoted. The folks who've taken time to display
their lack of literacy, first in being unable to understand the simple
statements made, the differences between computers built as computers and
others built from toys, etc, and additionally in being unwilling to construct
a coherent line of reasoning, not to mention present their posts having put a
little thought into them, and so flighty in their effort that their grammar,
syntax, and orthography are clear evidence they've not even read their own
writing, I can't possibly take them seriously.
Most of what I see in that last round is folks who misread what was said,
believing it was what they wanted so they could jump on it. The folks who can
read and write see through that right away. The ones who can't, or don't,
don't matter.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Pat Finnegan" <pat(a)purdueriots.com>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2002 10:56 PM
Subject: Re: BS al a Erlacher
Since I haven't seen anyone ask this yet, I'll
bite:
Dick, do you actually have any interest in old machines or are you just
trolling the list? All of the messages I've read from you lately strongly
imply that you have no real interest toying with or using the systems we
normally talk about on this list.
I'm not trying to start a war, I'm just trying to ask an honest
question (and perhaps giving you a chance to redeem yourself from the
last round of flames).
-- Pat
On Sun, 28 Apr 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote:
> Looks as though someone's p*ssed because he doesn't read and can't write
and
spell.
Dick
10:53 a.m.
On Mon, 29 Apr 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote:
If you'd read my earlier post, you'd know that
my interest was in giving away
the hardware I had available. The reason was that, while I still use some of
the old boxes I have from back in the '70's, and while I still use the ones
that do something the newer ones don't, or simply do it more conveniently, I
don't have any interest in keeping non-functional or redundant hardware lying
about.
I read that, but was asking because I don't remember seeing any posts from
you giving things away. That doesn't mean that you didn't ask, just that
I don't remember it (or didn't see it).
OK, time for me to SIGTERM this thread.
-- Pat
12:05 a.m.
On Sunday 28 April 2002 22:30, you wrote:
Looks as though someone's p*ssed because he
doesn't read and can't write
and spell.
If ones talent as a Wordsmith was everything.
Then people like Peter Singer, Princeton's DeCamp
Professor in the University Center for Human Values
( disgusting leftist that advocates killing the aged and
sex with animals)
heralded in a recent interview with the New Yorker as the
"greatest living philosopher,"
Well i think ill switch from Singer to Einstien
Einstien was no wordsmith, neither where many
other creators who we owe our modern existence.
The illuminati however, put forth ideas and policy
that created pain suffering and mass murder the likes
never before seen.
I will take good content over form of delivery anyday.
Most of the best writing is shit with pretty and artisic
frosting.
Raymond
12:41 a.m.
On Sun, 28 Apr 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote:
You, 'bear,' need to go back and reread what
you've previously written. The
25MHz NEAT clone I bought in '89 was a '286, which, as I explained, was chosen
because it was slightly faster than the much more costly '386's of the time,
but cost MUCH less. It was, by the way, acquired through an ad in the
Computer Shopper, which I followed closely when I was shopping for a "deal"
since they didn't have an eBay yet.
Dick, if I had any free coupons for reading comprehension lessons at the
Sylvan Learning Center of your choice, I'd give them to you. I had not,
until now, contributed further to this thread, and if you'd actually paid
the slightest bit of attention you would have seen that it is GLEN
GOODWIN's article you have responded to---as witnessed by the header you
yourself included, even.
I often found decent prices in Computer Shopper, and
seldom even bothered to
FWIW I read Computer Shopper myself quite a lot at that time, cover to
cover even, because I was 12 and given over to such things. My memory does
not bear out your case, but it's notoriously flaky and I do not have the
magazines around anymore.
I did find some notes I---in a fit of wishful thinking---made about that
time (based on doodles I remember drawing to cheer up a friend (ah, the
heated war between Amiga and Macintosh), and other pages nearby with
actual dates on them) with the following notes culled directly from
Computer Shopper ads:
* Orchid Pro Designer Plus: $339, p.30 $299, p.208
* Miniscribe M3085; 70 MB, 18 msec. HD: $569, p. 56 $549, p.112
Price from a local shop; the best I remember finding anywhere:
* Barebones 16 MHz 286 (MB, case, PSU), $475 from Northwest Computer Outlet
A few tens of pages later, representing fall 1990, and irrelevant to the
discussion, but perhaps interesting to somebody:
* GVP 28MHz accelerator for Amiga 2000: ~$775
* 2 MB RAM expansion board for Amiga 2000, fully populated: ~$450
These would've been from AmigaWorld. The next page bears some more
Computer Shopper fruit:
* Seagate ST1144A, kit: $469, p.298
* ATI VGA Wonder Plus, 512k: $229
* Sound Blaster: $149
* USR Courier HST (14.4kbps): $539
* NEC CDR3501 external CD-ROM, with interface: $549
So I _still_ find your claim highly specious, though I lack primary
sources at the moment to back it up further.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Glen Goodwin" <acme_ent(a)bellsouth.net>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 11:47 PM
Subject: BS al a Erlacher
Look! Do try to pay attention, please.
except perhaps in that I had the information and you
didn't. I don't always
read the posts on the list as thoroughly and completely as I should, before
reacting, and it's clear I'm not alone in that.
Yes. Painfully clear.
I don't know what to say on the availability of 25 MHz 80286 parts. As I
recall I stated quite clearly in the original message that my statement
was just that; a feeling. As it turns out I did find something out about
it in the meanwhile:
http://www.fortunecity.com/marina/reach/435/comphis6.html
"1989 (spring) Harris Semiconductor introduces a 25 MHz version of the
80286. Price is US $142 each in quantities of 1000."
Not exactly a primary source, no, but it is something to chew on.
ok
r.
4:36 a.m.
Well, Sir, I apologize for the inappropriate attribution of that inane set of
remarks to you. I have to admit it surprised me that something of that nature
could come from you, particularly in light of the generally sensible posts I'm
accustomed to seeing with your name.
That post to which I was replying did, however, start out with
"
to
From: r. 'bear' stricklin
<red(a)bears.org>
On Tue, 23 Apr 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote:
> The year I got my first PC/AT (I used 'em at
work all the time, but
didn't get
> one at home for a while.) I bought a 25 MHz
clone (NEAT architecture)
with 8 ..."
The fact that Mr. Goodwin's format was so confusing as to throw me off at the
same time he complained about my experimenting with the various formats people
had suggested, doesn't help.
It's interesting that you mention the Northwest Computer Products as a source,
since I do seem to recall that they were the source of the '286/25 motherboard
to which I referred. I bought this hardware from a local guy who took my list
of items and reference prices and then set about to gather up all the pieces
for me and then take a small profit on the work. That motherboard, as I
previously indicated was a board complete with the IIT coprocessor and 4 MB of
DIP ram, all provided by NCP (if that's the right outfit) and the remaining 4
MB of SIPP memory was from a local vendor who supplied many of the sellers who
advertised in Computer Shopper, though he happily sold to us and anyone else
who asked him, at the same prices as those he charged the mail-order vendors
he supplied.
The video board was a 1Kx768x16-color Genoa 5400, I believe (I saw the box
earlier today, though I don't have the card any longer). Those were not
cheap, but were readily obtainable if one had the connections, at a price on
the order of $139 or so. The advertised price at the time was on the order of
$199, but it wasn't unusual to find someone who wanted to sell them and would
take $60 less just to turn their inventory.
As I previously mentioned, we'd been designing with 25 MHz 'C286 processors
since '87 or so, for the satcom biz. I designed ground equipment, but the
selected Harris CPU was used in both ground and flight app's and it was so
widely avaialble that we didn't think anything about using it. The
"official"
25 MHz part did come a bit later, but that was only a couple of years later,
and really wasn't a die change or shrink. I think it was just a ground-rule
change where the performance spec's were concerned.
I took a look at the motherboard, BTW, and found that the C&T chips on the
board were marked 20 MHz, but there's a sticker on the board that clearly says
"25 MHz." This suggests the boards were selected for that rate.
I don't know how you and your friends went about buying hardware back then. I
shopped around because I didn't want to have to do it again. I didn't like
paying more than 30% of retail prices, and seldom had to do that. I went back
and checked the prices from Orca, and find their Q1 pricing on 1 MB SIMMs and
SIPPs were, indeed, in the range of $35-37 at the time (September '89), as I
have it penciled in the margin of their spec's. I did, after all, buy my
first '386 motherboard from them, and complete with RAM.
Since the distributor price of 1M DRAM SIMMs was only about $75-$78 at the
time, I don't know where the $1k for 8 MB of RAM would come from. I bought a
1 MB-populated memory board (mfg by CUMULUS) for my HP LJ3 at about that time
for $99 from a local retailer. It makes no sense that a SIMM would cost $125
through "discount" retailers.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "r. 'bear' stricklin" <red(a)bears.org>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2002 11:41 PM
Subject: Re: BS al a Erlacher
On Sun, 28 Apr 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote:
> You, 'bear,' need to go back and reread what you've previously written.
The
> 25MHz NEAT clone I bought in '89 was a
'286, which, as I explained, was
chosen
> because it was slightly faster than the much more
costly '386's of the
time,
> but cost MUCH less. It was, by the way, acquired
through an ad in the
> Computer Shopper, which I followed closely when I was shopping for a
"deal"
since they
didn't have an eBay yet.
Dick, if I had any free coupons for reading comprehension lessons at the
Sylvan Learning Center of your choice, I'd give them to you. I had not,
until now, contributed further to this thread, and if you'd actually paid
the slightest bit of attention you would have seen that it is GLEN
GOODWIN's article you have responded to---as witnessed by the header you
yourself included, even.
> I often found decent prices in Computer Shopper, and seldom even bothered
FWIW I read Computer Shopper myself quite a lot at that time, cover to
cover even, because I was 12 and given over to such things. My memory does
not bear out your case, but it's notoriously flaky and I do not have the
magazines around anymore.
I did find some notes I---in a fit of wishful thinking---made about that
time (based on doodles I remember drawing to cheer up a friend (ah, the
heated war between Amiga and Macintosh), and other pages nearby with
actual dates on them) with the following notes culled directly from
Computer Shopper ads:
* Orchid Pro Designer Plus: $339, p.30 $299, p.208
* Miniscribe M3085; 70 MB, 18 msec. HD: $569, p. 56 $549, p.112
Price from a local shop; the best I remember finding anywhere:
* Barebones 16 MHz 286 (MB, case, PSU), $475 from Northwest Computer Outlet
A few tens of pages later, representing fall 1990, and irrelevant to the
discussion, but perhaps interesting to somebody:
* GVP 28MHz accelerator for Amiga 2000: ~$775
* 2 MB RAM expansion board for Amiga 2000, fully populated: ~$450
These would've been from AmigaWorld. The next page bears some more
Computer Shopper fruit:
* Seagate ST1144A, kit: $469, p.298
* ATI VGA Wonder Plus, 512k: $229
* Sound Blaster: $149
* USR Courier HST (14.4kbps): $539
* NEC CDR3501 external CD-ROM, with interface: $549
So I _still_ find your claim highly specious, though I lack primary
sources at the moment to back it up further.
always
----- Original Message -----
From: "Glen Goodwin" <acme_ent(a)bellsouth.net>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 11:47 PM
Subject: BS al a Erlacher
Look! Do try to pay attention, please.
> except perhaps in that I had the information and you didn't. I don't
> read the posts on the list as thoroughly and
completely as I should,
before
reacting, and
it's clear I'm not alone in that.
Yes. Painfully clear.
I don't know what to say on the availability of 25 MHz 80286 parts. As I
recall I stated quite clearly in the original message that my statement
was just that; a feeling. As it turns out I did find something out about
it in the meanwhile:
http://www.fortunecity.com/marina/reach/435/comphis6.html
"1989 (spring) Harris Semiconductor introduces a 25 MHz version of the
80286. Price is US $142 each in quantities of 1000."
Not exactly a primary source, no, but it is something to chew on.
ok
r.
7:18 a.m.
Ok folks, read the following post from Dick and tell me what's wrong. BTW:
if it's not that easy, here's a hint: the guy whom passes judgement on
spelling and grammar makes at least one spelling mistake and at least one
grammatical error in his little quip. Practicing what one might make a sad
attempt at preaching might help here. I will see if I can wrangle up some
Sylvan Learning center coupons for Dick.
Continue to read on for points to what I mean. On another note: I just hit
the reply button on my Eudora for the classiccmp posts. Why? Because I
really don't care as long as you can read the damned thing.
At 05:36 AM 4/29/02, you wrote:
Well, Sir, I apologize for the inappropriate
attribution of that inane set of
remarks to you. I have to admit it surprised me that something of that nature
could come from you, particularly in light of the generally sensible posts I'm
accustomed to seeing with your name.
That post to which I was replying did, however, start out with
"
<pay attention here>
From: r. 'bear' stricklin
<red(a)bears.org>
On Tue, 23 Apr 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote:
> The year I got my first PC/AT (I used
'em at work all the time, but
didn't get
> one at home for a while.) I bought a 25 MHz
clone (NEAT architecture)
with 8 ..."
The fact that Mr. Goodwin's format was so confusing as to throw me off at the
same time he complained about my experimenting with the various formats people
had suggested, doesn't help.
It's interesting that you mention the Northwest Computer Products as a source,
since I do seem to recall that they were the source of the '286/25 motherboard
to which I referred. I bought this hardware from a local guy who took my list
of items and reference prices and then set about to gather up all the pieces
for me and then take a small profit on the work. That motherboard, as I
previously indicated was a board complete with the IIT coprocessor and 4 MB of
DIP ram, all provided by NCP (if that's the right outfit) and the remaining 4
MB of SIPP memory was from a local vendor who supplied many of the sellers who
advertised in Computer Shopper, though he happily sold to us and anyone else
who asked him, at the same prices as those he charged the mail-order vendors
he supplied.
The video board was a 1Kx768x16-color Genoa 5400, I believe (I saw the box
earlier today, though I don't have the card any longer). Those were not
cheap, but were readily obtainable if one had the connections, at a price on
the order of $139 or so. The advertised price at the time was on the order of
$199, but it wasn't unusual to find someone who wanted to sell them and would
take $60 less just to turn their inventory.
As I previously mentioned, we'd been designing with 25 MHz 'C286 processors
since '87 or so, for the satcom biz. I designed ground equipment, but the
selected Harris CPU was used in both ground and flight app's and it was so widely avaialble that we didn't think anything
about using it. The "official"
<ok, notice that?>
25 MHz part did come a bit later, but that was only a
couple of years later,
and really wasn't a die change or shrink. I think it was just a ground-rule
change where the performance spec's were concerned.
I took a look at the motherboard, BTW, and found that the C&T chips on the
board were marked 20 MHz, but there's a sticker on the board that clearly says
"25 MHz." This suggests the boards were selected for that rate.
I don't know how you and your friends went about buying hardware back then. I
shopped around because I didn't want to have to do it again. I didn't like
paying more than 30% of retail prices, and seldom had to do that. I went back
and checked the prices from Orca, and find their Q1 pricing on 1 MB SIMMs and
SIPPs were, indeed, in the range of $35-37 at the time (September '89), as I
have it penciled in the margin of their spec's. I did, after all, buy my
<ok, now pay attention here as well>
first '386 motherboard from them, and complete with
RAM.
<ok, see this too?>
<snippity-snip, snip-snip: got tired of reading this drivel. Maybe I'll
print it and use it to line my cat box.>
Dick: the 'and' should not be there. ..."motherboard from them, complete
with RAM". That should be your sentence. Ok, now that we have nit-picked,
etcetera; are we ready to get back to discussing classic computers, or are
we going to continue to be pricks?
(Yes, I know 'pricks' is poor English and used quite possibly in bad
grammar, but isn't that my point right now?)
-John
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Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst
and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies
http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html
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12 comments
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participants (8)
-
acme_ent＠bellsouth.net -
allain＠panix.com -
edick＠idcomm.com -
Hans.Franke＠mch20.sbs.de -
john_boffemmyer_iv＠boff-net.dhs.org -
pat＠purdueriots.com -
red＠bears.org -
rmoyers＠nop.org