3 Dec
2006
3 Dec
'06
12:16 p.m.
I want to convert a ASR33 from 110V/50Hz ( yes , 50Hz) to 220V.
Is it sufficient to swap the motor and fuses ?
A nice touch of this particular machine is the unused "here is" option.
I wonder if a small bootloader would fit in it...
Jos Dreesen
3 Dec
3 Dec
1:02 p.m.
From: Jos Dreesen / Marian Capel <jos.mar at
bluewin.ch>
I want to convert a ASR33 from 110V/50Hz ( yes , 50Hz) to 220V.
Is it sufficient to swap the motor and fuses ?
A nice touch of this particular machine is the unused "here is" option.
I wonder if a small bootloader would fit in it...
Jos Dreesen
Hi
It makes more sense to use an autotransformer. You can
often use the input leads of a transformer that is intended to
be wired for 110/220. As an autotransformer, it only
has to carry half the current that a full transformer would need.
There are several parts of the machine that use the 110v.
As I recall, things like the reader power supply and the
supply for the keyboard also use the input supply voltage.
It make much more sense to use the original voltage with
an auto transformer.
Since the frequency is the same, there is no issue with belts
and pulleys.
Dwight
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2:07 p.m.
Jos,
wouldn't it be easier to get an auto-transformer 220 -> 110 VAC ?
- Henk.
________________________________
Van: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org namens Jos Dreesen / Marian Capel
Verzonden: zo 03-12-2006 18:16
Aan: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Onderwerp: ASR-33 conversion to 220V
I want to convert a ASR33 from 110V/50Hz ( yes , 50Hz) to 220V.
Is it sufficient to swap the motor and fuses ?
A nice touch of this particular machine is the unused "here is" option.
I wonder if a small bootloader would fit in it...
Jos Dreesen
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7:04 p.m.
I want to convert a ASR33 from 110V/50Hz ( yes , 50Hz) to 220V.
Is it sufficient to swap the motor and fuses ?
I have never seen a 230V motor for an ASR33. All the ASR33s I've seen in
the UK have 115V motors (and the same rating of fuse that you'd expect
for a 115V machine).
There's an autotransformer fitted in the stand to get 115V from the 230V
mains. That's the change.
Incidnetally, for those who haven't seen it, there seems to be a set of
Model 33 manuals _including the parts list_ on E-bay at the moment.
-tony
5 Dec
5 Dec
11:45 p.m.
Tony Duell wrote:
My first ASR33 is a "native" 220V machine (i.e. without transformer),
and since the spare motor I have came with that first machine, I assumed
it would also be 220V.
But i checked again after Tony's message and my spare motor turns out to
be a 115V/ 50Hz item...
So autotransformer it will be. And I can add the 8/L to it instead of
the 8/E.
jos
I want to
convert a ASR33 from 110V/50Hz ( yes , 50Hz) to 220V.
Is it sufficient to swap the motor and fuses ?
I have never seen a 230V motor for an ASR33. All the ASR33s I've seen in
the UK have 115V motors (and the same rating of fuse that you'd expect
for a 115V machine).
6 Dec
6 Dec
6:13 a.m.
Tony Duell wrote:
As an aside, if I've got 110v equipment and 240v mains, would a yellow
transformer be suitable for running it? I'd assume that most kit will
be happy enough with a centre-tapped supply but I don't know if I want
to risk it...
Gordon.
I want to
convert a ASR33 from 110V/50Hz ( yes , 50Hz) to 220V.
Is it sufficient to swap the motor and fuses ?
I have never seen a 230V motor for an ASR33. All the ASR33s I've seen in
the UK have 115V motors (and the same rating of fuse that you'd expect
for a 115V machine).
There's an autotransformer fitted in the stand to get 115V from the 230V
mains. That's the change.
7 Dec
7 Dec
7:32 p.m.
As an aside, if I've got 110v equipment and 240v
mains, would a yellow
transformer be suitable for running it? I'd assume that most kit will
be happy enough with a centre-tapped supply but I don't know if I want
to risk it...
AFAIK no equipment, either US or European can assume that one side of the
mains is grounds (and safe to touch). Therefore a centre-tapped (to
ground) supply should be fine. One of my Tektronix instruemnts shows
different wiring for centre-tapped-to-ground and one-side-grounded mains
(I think only for 230V mains), but this is to reduce noise pickup, not
safety, and AFAIK the instrument works if you get this wrong (it just has
a little (and I mean little) more noise on the trace).
I have a cable here with a 110V BS4343 (yellow) plug on one end and a US
mains socket on the other. I use it for running US mains
chargers/adapters off a power tool transformer. OK, I only use it for
testing (to measure the output voltage/characteristics of the US adapter
so I can make a UK mains equivalent, but I've never had any problems
running said US adapters off the power tool transformer.
[For those who wonder what on earth I am talking about, portable
industrial power tools -- electric drills, for example -- in the UK are
110V devices. They're run off a step-down isolating transformer, the
secondary of which is centre-tapped with the tap connected to ground. The
idea is that if the insulation fails, or you cut through the cable, or,
then the maximu voltage you'll get if you touch one bit of metal is 55V
(one half of the transformer output, returning to ground through you).
This voltage is unlikely to prove fatal.]
-tony
8:39 p.m.
On 8 Dec 2006 at 0:32, Tony Duell wrote:
AFAIK no equipment, either US or European can assume
that one side of the
mains is grounds (and safe to touch).
I own a Toshiba microwave oven (with 3-prong grounding plug) that
will not power up if the mains socket is wired up with the feed
reversed. Drove me crazy the first time I tried to use it until I
discovered that the idiot who wired the kitchen receptacles swapped
black and white at one socket in the string. The same refusal to
work may be true of some ground-fault interrupter receptacles (i.e.,
they always stay "tripped" if wired backwards).
The local Cheap Chinese tool place regularly has a special on
receptacle testers that make sure that the wide blade in the
receptacle is at ground potential.
[For those who wonder what on earth I am talking
about, portable
industrial power tools -- electric drills, for example -- in the UK are
110V devices.
At what level does this not hold true? For example, I've got a nice
big router (portable) that draws a full 15 amps at 120v at startup.
That would be a pretty large transformer.
Nowadays, however, most portable tools are simply constructed as
"double insulated".
Cheers,
Chuck
8 Dec
8 Dec
3:29 a.m.
Chuck Guzis wrote:
At what level does this not hold true? For example,
I've got a nice
big router (portable) that draws a full 15 amps at 120v at startup.
That would be a pretty large transformer.
At no point, for industrial tools.
Nowadays, however, most portable tools are simply
constructed as
"double insulated".
Yes, but you're not allowed to use those on building sites etc. in the
UK. You need to have 110v tools.
The biggest transformers I've seen are about 15kVA and come on a small
trolley. They're about a couple of feet on each side. They may in fact
be three-phase, but I didn't want to piss off the 20-or-so workmen who
had stuff plugged into the two that were on site by disconnecting it for
a look at the plug.
Gordon
10:02 a.m.
On 08/12/2006 08:29, Gordon JC Pearce wrote:
I'm sure there's nothing to stop you using double-insulated tools if
they're 110V (and Chuck's router should work at 110V).
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
Chuck Guzis wrote:
> At what level does this not hold true? For example, I've got a nice
> big router (portable) that draws a full 15 amps at 120v at startup.
Nowadays,
however, most portable tools are simply constructed as
"double insulated".
Yes, but you're not allowed to use those on building sites etc. in the
UK. You need to have 110v tools.
2:33 p.m.
I own a Toshiba microwave oven (with 3-prong grounding plug) that
will not power up if the mains socket is wired up with the feed
reversed. Drove me crazy the first time I tried to use it until I
Is this by accident or design?
[For those who
wonder what on earth I am talking about, portable
industrial power tools -- electric drills, for example -- in the UK are
110V devices.
At what level does this not hold true? For example, I've got a nice
big router (portable) that draws a full 15 amps at 120v at startup.
That would be a pretty large transformer. Nowadays, however, most portable tools are simply
constructed as
"double insulated".
Yes, so are these. But if that insulation fails, or the tool gets wet
(say on a building site), it's better to get 55V across you than 230V.
-tony
3:14 p.m.
On 8 Dec 2006 at 19:33, Tony Duell wrote:
Strangely enough, it's by design. I wondered the same thing and went
to the owner's manual. Says so right there. But then, it's an old
microwave, so that's when Japanese consumer appliances were still
engineered with something other than selling price in mind.
Cheers,
Chuck
I own a Toshiba microwave oven (with 3-prong grounding plug) that
will not power up if the mains socket is wired up with the feed
reversed. Drove me crazy the first time I tried to use it until I
Is this by accident or design? 
7 Dec
7 Dec
10:03 p.m.
On Fri, 2006-12-08 at 00:32 +0000, Tony Duell wrote:
[For those who wonder what on earth I am talking
about, portable
industrial power tools -- electric drills, for example -- in the UK are
110V devices. They're run off a step-down isolating transformer, the
secondary of which is centre-tapped with the tap connected to ground. The
idea is that if the insulation fails, or you cut through the cable, or,
then the maximu voltage you'll get if you touch one bit of metal is 55V
(one half of the transformer output, returning to ground through you).
This voltage is unlikely to prove fatal.]
Interestingly, that is how U.S. Navy power on-board ships works,
too. (Well, as of 25 years ago... *SIGH*) Two out-of-phase 60 volt
live sides. U.S. standard house wiring is, however, three wire: Live,
Neutral, and Ground at 120 volts, 60 Hz. Some equipment we used on the
ship was designed for land-based labs, and case-grounded, which meant
that when you plugged them in, you were shorting out half the mains.
Yikes. We had isolation transformers for THAT equipment which were
ungrounded. Installing new equipment was even more exciting there than
most places. <Grin>
Peace,
Warren E. Wolfe
wizard at voyager.net
8 Dec
8 Dec
2:36 p.m.
Interestingly, that is how U.S. Navy power
on-board ships works,
too. (Well, as of 25 years ago... *SIGH*) Two out-of-phase 60 volt
live sides. U.S. standard house wiring is, however, three wire: Live,
Neutral, and Ground at 120 volts, 60 Hz. Some equipment we used on the
ship was designed for land-based labs, and case-grounded, which meant
that when you plugged them in, you were shorting out half the mains.
Why? Since there should be no connection between the active parts of the
mains circuit and the earthed metal case, why did it matter what point of
the mains supply (one side, or the mid point) was grounded?
-tony
4:40 p.m.
On Fri, 2006-12-08 at 19:36 +0000, Tony Duell wrote:
Warren:
I worked in a calibration lab. Apparently, some equipment connects
(or USED to connect - it certainly would NOT work with a GFI system) the
neutral to ground to avoid low current ground loops that could cause
tiny measurement errors. I was never quite sure of the physics of that
whole "ground loop" business. Anyway, some of the equipment with
3-prong plugs shorted the neutral to ground. This conflicted with
ship's power, which was NOT 120 V. service, but two out-of-phase 60 volt
circuits, as produced by a motor-generator set. Shorting neutral to
ground didn't "fix" neutral at a low potential, it shorted one side. A
couple instruments even did it before the fuses. I'm not sure what the
thinking was behind that, but fortunately the power cord WILL act as a
fuse, although it is rated at quite a few amps, and kind of stinks when
it operates...
Peace,
Warren E. Wolfe
wizard at voyager.net
Interestingly, that is how U.S. Navy power
on-board ships works,
too. (Well, as of 25 years ago... *SIGH*) Two out-of-phase 60 volt
live sides. U.S. standard house wiring is, however, three wire: Live,
Neutral, and Ground at 120 volts, 60 Hz. Some equipment we used on the
ship was designed for land-based labs, and case-grounded, which meant
that when you plugged them in, you were shorting out half the mains.
Why? Since there should be no connection between the active parts of the
mains circuit and the earthed metal case, why did it matter what point of
the mains supply (one side, or the mid point) was grounded? 
10:39 a.m.
On Fri, 2006-12-08 at 00:32 +0000, Tony Duell wrote:
Which is a very good thing because Norway has no neutral wire. :) (Two
phases, 220V p-p)
-Tore
As an aside,
if I've got 110v equipment and 240v mains, would a yellow
transformer be suitable for running it? I'd assume that most kit will
be happy enough with a centre-tapped supply but I don't know if I want
to risk it...
AFAIK no equipment, either US or European can assume that one side of the
mains is grounds (and safe to touch). 
11:22 a.m.
Which is a very good thing because Norway has no
neutral wire. :)
(Two phases, 220V p-p)
However, in my experience you cannot treat either phase to ground as
110V a la North American practice. Quite aside from there being no
neutral wire and thus this meaning carrying current over the ground
wire, I've seen the voltages to ground rather grossly unbalanced (like
the voltage from one side to ground being about twice the that for the
other side - 73 and 147 volts, for an exact 220V). I don't know
whether this was just a faulty installation, but it happens.
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12:18 p.m.
On 8 Dec 2006 at 16:39, Tore Sinding Bekkedal wrote:
Which is a very good thing because Norway has no
neutral wire. :) (Two
phases, 220V p-p)
So, the distribution voltage in Norway is 155V RMS?
It seems to me that the situation with 110v power tools in the UK is
not all that different from our own US convention for larger tools.
I know of no portable power tools that use 240v, except for welders
and demolition hammers.
The distribution transformer (in the case of single-phase power) has
its center tap grounded and connected to the neutral conductor. So
my table and bandsaw, as well as my jointer and shaper have their
frames grounded while using 240v motors. So the maximum exposure to
ground in the case of an accident is 120v.
But all in all, if I were to be accidentally shocked, I'd rather that
it were 55v rather than 120v!
Cheers,
Chuck
1:50 p.m.
On Fri, 2006-12-08 at 09:18 -0800, Chuck Guzis wrote:
On 8 Dec 2006 at 16:39, Tore Sinding Bekkedal wrote:
Oh, good... I'm NOT the only one...
Which is a very good thing because Norway has no
neutral wire. :) (Two
phases, 220V p-p)
So, the distribution voltage in Norway is 155V RMS? But all in all, if I were to be accidentally shocked,
I'd rather that
it were 55v rather than 120v!
Rick Romero strikes again. Film at eleven.
For the unaware, Rick Romero has become a 'Net icon for being the
personification of "Captain Obvious." He was, and probably still is, a
television reporter for a station in southern California. He earned his
notoriety by belaboring the obvious as if it were news... "Obesity
thought to be caused by over-eating," and "Sixteen month spree by serial
rapist causes local concern." So sincere, so concerned, so clueless.
Peace,
Warren E. Wolfe
wizard at voyager.net
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