28 Jan
1999
28 Jan
'99
3:57 p.m.
I just got my hands on my first Kaypro - a Kaypro 4. Everything seems to work,
but it never boots from the only boot floppy I have. I tried reversing the
two drives and booting from the other drive and got the same results, so I'm
convinced it's the floppy itself.
Can anyone point me to a site where I can get the software to create a new
one from my win95 machine (if possible).
I have some questions. First, I tried connecting a 360k 5.25 inch floppy from
a PC to the kaypro. At first nothing happened, then when I changed the device
select to 0, it hung the machine every time it tried to boot. Should I
interpret this to mean you can't connect PC drives to Kaypros? If you CAN,
can you connect 3.5 inch drives to it? It would be far more convenient...
Also, on www.psyber.com/~tjc/ it says there's a western digital hard disk
controller. WD-1002-05 HDO. Is it possible to connect this to a K4? If so,
how? I don't see any open connectors on the motherboard offhand.
Anyway, the guy I got my K4 from has a K2 and a K2x - the latter of which
appears to be unable to boot, although I suspect reseating the chips would
solve it, and the former of which has a soda-contaminated keyboard with
some missing keys. If anyone's interested in these machines, let me know and
I'll forward your e-mail to him.
--
Jim Strickland
jim(a)DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
28 Jan
28 Jan
4:51 p.m.
On Thu, 28 Jan 1999, Jim Strickland wrote:
I just got my hands on my first Kaypro - a Kaypro 4.
Everything seems to work,
but it never boots from the only boot floppy I have. I tried reversing the
two drives and booting from the other drive and got the same results, so I'm
convinced it's the floppy itself.
Can anyone point me to a site where I can get the software to create a new
one from my win95 machine (if possible).
A copy of TeleDisk and a TeleDisk disk image and a PC with a 5.25" drive
- preferably a 360k - is pretty much what you need. Because the o/s is
contained in the boot track, the usual copy commands don't quite fo it.
I have some questions. First, I tried connecting a
360k 5.25 inch floppy from
a PC to the kaypro. At first nothing happened, then when I changed the device
select to 0, it hung the machine every time it tried to boot. Should I
interpret this to mean you can't connect PC drives to Kaypros? If you CAN,
can you connect 3.5 inch drives to it? It would be far more convenient...
No, more likely there are some of the other jumpers set such that the
Kaypro doesn't like it. And yes, you can hang 3.5" drives on instead.
It means patching the BIOS to reflect the format differences, and of
course you cannot format to 1440k (HD). Allison has done the 3.5" thing,
I believe.
Also, on www.psyber.com/~tjc/ it says there's a
western digital hard disk
controller. WD-1002-05 HDO. Is it possible to connect this to a K4? If so,
how? I don't see any open connectors on the motherboard offhand.
Apparently, you have the so called 4/83 that uses full height drives.
The 4/84s and 2Xs and 10s all had a 50 pin header that lead to an adapter
board, which in turn led - by way of a 40 conductor ribbon - to the WD HD
controller.
Anyway, the guy I got my K4 from has a K2 and a K2x -
the latter of which
appears to be unable to boot, although I suspect reseating the chips would
solve it, and the former of which has a soda-contaminated keyboard with
some missing keys. If anyone's interested in these machines, let me know and
I'll forward your e-mail to him.
If in fact that is a K2 rather than a KII, it might have the 50 pin header
also. Kaypro played some games with model numbers, so it is a bit
difficult to be absolutely certain sometimes.
- don
--
Jim Strickland
jim(a)DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
5:38 p.m.
A copy of TeleDisk and a TeleDisk disk image and a PC
with a 5.25" drive
- preferably a 360k - is pretty much what you need. Because the o/s is
contained in the boot track, the usual copy commands don't quite fo it.
No, more likely there are some of the other jumpers set such that the
Kaypro doesn't like it. And yes, you can hang 3.5" drives on instead.
It means patching the BIOS to reflect the format differences, and of
course you cannot format to 1440k (HD). Allison has done the 3.5" thing,
I believe.
I'd love to know how this is done. :)
Also, on www.psyber.com/~tjc/ it says there's
a western digital hard disk
controller. WD-1002-05 HDO. Is it possible to connect this to a K4? If so,
how? I don't see any open connectors on the motherboard offhand.
Apparently, you have the so called 4/83 that uses full height drives.
The 4/84s and 2Xs and 10s all had a 50 pin header that lead to an adapter
board, which in turn led - by way of a 40 conductor ribbon - to the WD HD
controller. Anyway, the
guy I got my K4 from has a K2 and a K2x - the latter of which
appears to be unable to boot, although I suspect reseating the chips would
solve it, and the former of which has a soda-contaminated keyboard with
some missing keys. If anyone's interested in these machines, let me know and
I'll forward your e-mail to him.
If in fact that is a K2 rather than a KII, it might have the 50 pin header
also. Kaypro played some games with model numbers, so it is a bit
difficult to be absolutely certain sometimes.
- don
29 Jan
29 Jan
9:02 a.m.
On Fri, 29 Jan 1999, Jim Strickland wrote:
Which?
Actually the stickers on the back read "Kaypro 4 '84" and it has half
height
drives. The drive connector feeds directly to the main board. to the rear
of that is what appears to be a connector that wasn't ever attached - there are
holes but no connector.
Well, if that is so, it should have a 50 pin header or the traces and
pads for it on the right hand edge of the motherboard just beyond the
floppy connection header.
--
Jim Strickland
jim(a)DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
A copy of
TeleDisk and a TeleDisk disk image and a PC with a 5.25" drive
- preferably a 360k - is pretty much what you need. Because the o/s is
contained in the boot track, the usual copy commands don't quite fo it.
No, more likely there are some of the other jumpers set such that the
Kaypro doesn't like it. And yes, you can hang 3.5" drives on instead.
It means patching the BIOS to reflect the format differences, and of
course you cannot format to 1440k (HD). Allison has done the 3.5" thing,
I believe.
I'd love to know how this is done. :) Also, on www.psyber.com/~tjc/ it says there's a
western digital hard disk
controller. WD-1002-05 HDO. Is it possible to connect this to a K4? If so,
how? I don't see any open connectors on the motherboard offhand.
Apparently, you have the so called 4/83 that uses full height drives.
The 4/84s and 2Xs and 10s all had a 50 pin header that lead to an adapter
board, which in turn led - by way of a 40 conductor ribbon - to the WD HD
controller. Anyway, the guy I got my K4 from has a K2 and a K2x -
the latter of which
appears to be unable to boot, although I suspect reseating the chips would
solve it, and the former of which has a soda-contaminated keyboard with
some missing keys. If anyone's interested in these machines, let me know and
I'll forward your e-mail to him.
If in fact that is a K2 rather than a KII, it might have the 50 pin header
also. Kaypro played some games with model numbers, so it is a bit
difficult to be absolutely certain sometimes.
- don
30 Jan
30 Jan
10:27 a.m.
I'd love to know how this is done. :)
Which? The 4/84s and 2Xs and 10s all had a 50 pin header that
lead to an adapter
board, which in turn led - by way of a 40 conductor ribbon - to the WD HD
controller.
Actually the stickers on the back read "Kaypro 4 '84" and it has half
height
drives. The drive connector feeds directly to the main board. to the rear
of that is what appears to be a connector that wasn't ever attached - there are
holes but no connector.
4:33 p.m.
On Sat, 30 Jan 1999, Jim Strickland wrote:
The 3.5 inch drive conversion. Using modern media on this machine would
simplify things enormously. However I don't have the facilities to burn
my own roms, so if it involves patching the bios rom (like it sounds like)
I'll stick with 5.25 I guess.
OK, I guess Allison filled that one in pretty well! TurboROM, or
equivalent, is your answer.
I'd love to know how this is done. :)
Which? That's right. It has the pads and traces for
probably a 50 pin header just
behind the floppy connection header. Is this where I'd plug in the
hard disk controller if I had it? And I don't suppose anyone ever made
a SCSI host adapter for this thing? being able to use SCSI disks in it
like I do in nearly every other machine I own would be VERY handy. (yes,
I'm a SCSI bigot. I lothe IDE).
No, that is where you would plug in the adapter card from a K10 that
converts the signals to 40 conductors that are required by the WD1002-HDO.
Actually, on the downstream side of the adapter card you are tremendously
close to an IDE interface. As I understand it, the IDE interface is
premised on the commands that are required by the WD1002-nnn controller.
zI have forgotten the exact model, but it must be near to the WD1002.
- don
Jim Strickland
jim(a)DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
5:33 p.m.
That's
right. It has the pads and traces for probably a 50 pin header just
behind the floppy connection header. Is this where I'd plug in the
hard disk controller if I had it? And I don't suppose anyone ever made
a SCSI host adapter for this thing? being able to use SCSI disks in it
like I do in nearly every other machine I own would be VERY handy. (yes,
I'm a SCSI bigot. I lothe IDE).
No, that is where you would plug in the adapter card from a K10 that
converts the signals to 40 conductors that are required by the WD1002-HDO.
Actually, on the downstream side of the adapter card you are tremendously
close to an IDE interface. As I understand it, the IDE interface is
premised on the commands that are required by the WD1002-nnn controller.
zI have forgotten the exact model, but it must be near to the WD1002. 
11:51 p.m.
New subject: Sighting: SUN SParc-1 and Sparc-II systems
SParc 1 - CAN$225
SParc II - CAN$925
I am neither selling, nor associated with those who are.
I thought somebody on the list might be interested in the above. Please
contact me privately if so, and I will pass on further data.
I know next to nothing about SparcStations - especially how to correctly
capitalise their names, so am unsure if the above is a bargain or a ripoff
:)
A
--
adavie(a)mad.scientist.com
visit the Museum of Soviet Calculators at
http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/slide/calculator/soviet.html
a Yahoo!, Netscape, Wall Street Journal, Newsweek and New Scientist Cool
Site!?
?
31 Jan
31 Jan
12:03 a.m.
New subject: Time to share a source - W.J.Ford Surplus
I decided for the good of mankind to share one of my "secret" sources.
These guys have a pretty amazing inventory - including thousands of manuals
(for rent, even!). I just had a peek and they've got PDP 8 manuals and lots
lots more. A quick scan showed lots of computer thingies, and this is where
the Sun stuff I just wrote about comes from, too. I expect those
building/repairing old computers will find things here - they have lots of
valves, relays, delay lines, etc. etc. I've bought things from them before,
and can vouch for their honesty.
So, without further ado...
http://www.falls.igs.net/~testequipment/index.html
Do you guys/gals have any idea how hard it is to share a (almost sacred)
hunting ground?
Drop me a private note if you find something there - that's my claimed
spotters fee :)
A
--
adavie(a)mad.scientist.com
visit the Museum of Soviet Calculators at
http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/slide/calculator/soviet.html
a Yahoo!, Netscape, Wall Street Journal, Newsweek and New Scientist Cool
Site!?
?
3:54 a.m.
New subject: Time to share a source - W.J.Ford Surplus
On Mon, 1 Feb 1999, Andrew Davie wrote:
Do you guys/gals have any idea how hard it is to share
a (almost sacred)
hunting ground?
Do you know how hard it is when somebody else decides to share your sacred
hunting ground? Ford is good for HP stuff, among others....
-- Doug
1:49 a.m.
New subject: Time to share a source - W.J.Ford Surplus
On 31 Jan 99 at 12:54, Doug wrote:
On Mon, 1 Feb 1999, Andrew Davie wrote:
You aren't going to suggest that "sacred hunting grounds" be placed
under
indictment or on a separate list I would hope. :^)
ciao larry
lwalker(a)interlog.com
Do you guys/gals have any idea how hard it is to
share a (almost sacred)
hunting ground?
Do you know how hard it is when somebody else decides to share your sacred
hunting ground? Ford is good for HP stuff, among others....
-- Doug
7:08 a.m.
New subject: Time to share a source - W.J.Ford Surplus
Ah, but Doug you probably know every hunting ground on the planet. I doubt
anyone could post a source without stepping on your feet. I should have
thought about that, though. I thought I'd be the only one to know of them,
actually. So, 'pologies.
A
--
adavie(a)mad.scientist.com
visit the Museum of Soviet Calculators at
http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/slide/calculator/soviet.html
a Yahoo!, Netscape, Wall Street Journal, Newsweek and New Scientist Cool
Site!?
?
-----Original Message-----
From: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu
[mailto:CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu]On Behalf Of Doug
Sent: Monday, February 01, 1999 4:54 AM
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
Subject: Re: Time to share a source - W.J.Ford Surplus
On Mon, 1 Feb 1999, Andrew Davie wrote:
Do you guys/gals have any idea how hard it is to
share a (almost sacred)
hunting ground?
Do you know how hard it is when somebody else decides to share your sacred
hunting ground? Ford is good for HP stuff, among others....
-- Doug
2:24 p.m.
New subject: Time to share a source - W.J.Ford Surplus
Do you know how hard it is when somebody else decides
to share your sacred
hunting ground? Ford is good for HP stuff, among others....
Good point Doug. I *totally* agree. You know, if you want to give me
a complete list of your sources - I'll be sure not to accidentally give
them out...
Kirk
4:56 p.m.
New subject: Time to share a source - W.J.Ford Surplus
On Sun, 31 Jan 1999, Kirk Davis wrote:
Good point Doug. I *totally* agree. You know, if you
want to give me
a complete list of your sources - I'll be sure not to accidentally give
them out...
Really, AFAICT, Andrew Davie is the king of mining a variety of sources.
There are few machines I find interesting enough to weather the vagaries
of getting stuff out of Russia, for example.
For those in the SF Bay Area, there are a couple of web pages that not
only list many of the local sources, but also *rate* them. I'll leave
finding those web pages as an exercise for the reader :-)
Of course, the best sources are probably dumpsters and thrift store as-is
centers. Once you get up to the retail, surplus, or thrift store level of
the food chain, all of the really interesting "junk" has been dumpstered,
recycled, or stripped for parts.
So, if you're looking for machines that were used commercially, dive in
some of the dumpsters belonging to companies that have been established
for, say, 20 years or longer.
If you're looking for home micros, hit places like the Good Will as-is
center in your area (filled with the rejects after Good Will has selected
the "good" stuff for their retail stores).
I went to a swap meet in Orange County today, but it was rained out, so I
headed to a thrift store, and found some amazingly cool stuff: a Lego
MindStorms kit (complete with two accessory packs) and a programmable
Winnie the Pooh!
-- Doug
9218
days inactive
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13 comments
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participants (6)
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adavie＠mad.scientist.com -
donm＠cts.com -
doug＠blinkenlights.com -
jim＠calico.litterbox.com -
kbd＠ndx.net -
lwalker＠mail.interlog.com