17 Feb
2017
17 Feb
'17
11:35 a.m.
From: Jon Elson
Dave Bridgham and I have been using KiCAD for our stuff, and we're pretty
happy with it.
Here are a few bits: this is just data, I'm not trying to convince anyone to
use it - the points about 'complex tools one is already very used to' are
very good ones.
I'm most concerned about the reliability of the
design rules check
...
If these checks miss errors, I REALLY don't want to use the package.
I'm not quite sure what's covered here, but I have used the checker on my
admittedly-tiny projects, and been happy with it.
and layout vs. schematic.
Again, Dave has used it to lay out at least one moderately-sized card, and
seems to have been happy with the results.
(KiCad seems to still require picking operations from
a menu, Protel
has user-configurable keyboard shortcuts that are a big help. Maybe
KiCad has that and I just need to learn them.)
KiCAD does have keyboard shortcuts. I don't know if they are configurable.
From: Guy Sotomayor Jr
In terms of community supplied libraries, Eagle has
those too and I've
found that by and large they are junk (it's easier/quicker for me to
create a part on my own
... While I haven't seen a lot of KiCAD contributed libraries (that's
part of the problem)
KiCAD came with a fairly large set of user-contributed libraries. For various
reasons (including working with archaic parts), I've wound up adding quite a
few, but i've usally found it pretty easy to modify an exising part from the
libraries, to get what I need. YMMV.
Noel
17 Feb
17 Feb
12:05 p.m.
On Feb 17, 2017, at 2:35 PM, Noel Chiappa <jnc at
mercury.lcs.mit.edu> wrote:
...
One thing I learned with Eagle (an old version -- I started with it on DOS, with a
physical license dongle) is that you can define library stuff via scripting. This is very
helpful when defining 120-pin PCB footprints.
I don't remember precisely, but I think you can export libraries from Eagle in some
sort of text form. If that's true, then it would be SMOP to write a KiCAD library
importer. The key question is whether the library semantics are compatible. EAGLE is
rather nice in the way it handles schematic symbols vs. footprints and all that.
I used EAGLE long ago for one project, and more recently for another, but I haven't
found it sufficiently useful to buy it a second time to get the non-free version. Not
that I really need the autorouter, it isn't really all that useful. But still,
it's pretty steep for a hobbyist. I discovered KiCAD, haven't used it yet, should
give it a try.
One nice aspect of EAGLE is that a number of PCB fab shops will accept EAGLE *.BRD files
directly, rather than asking for Gerber and drill files.
paul
From: Guy Sotomayor Jr
In terms of community supplied libraries, Eagle
has those too and I've
found that by and large they are junk (it's easier/quicker for me to
create a part on my own
... While I haven't seen a lot of KiCAD contributed libraries (that's
part of the problem)
KiCAD came with a fairly large set of user-contributed libraries. For various
reasons (including working with archaic parts), I've wound up adding quite a
few, but i've usally found it pretty easy to modify an exising part from the
libraries, to get what I need. YMMV. 
12:27 p.m.
On Fri, Feb 17, 2017 at 2:05 PM, Paul Koning <paulkoning at comcast.net> wrote:
I don't remember precisely, but I think you can export libraries from
Eagle in some sort of text form. If that's true, then it would be SMOP to
write a KiCAD library importer. The key question is whether the library
semantics are compatible. EAGLE is rather nice in the way it handles
schematic symbols vs. footprints and all that.
There seem to be a few projects out there that do that. Here's one:
https://github.com/lachlanA/eagle-to-kicad
I recall there also being a wizard utility for creating pad arrays and such
in KiCad; haven't played with that too much yet.
I used EAGLE long ago for one project, and more
recently for another, but
I haven't found it sufficiently useful to buy it a second time to get the
non-free version. Not that I really need the autorouter, it isn't really
all that useful. But still, it's pretty steep for a hobbyist. I
discovered KiCAD, haven't used it yet, should give it a try.
Autorouters anywhere seem like they're pretty much garbage.
One nice aspect of EAGLE is that a number of PCB fab
shops will accept
EAGLE *.BRD files directly, rather than asking for Gerber and drill files.
OSH Park, who I've used the most (Advanced Circuits second), will now
accept KiCad project files, which is handy. The automated board preview
lets you quickly verify that things are correct before hitting "order."
I recently designed a board with matched-length differential traces. KiCad
made that process very easy. Push 'n' shove routing, as mentioned here
before, is also incredibly nice.
Kyle
2:47 p.m.
On Fri, Feb 17, 2017 at 1:05 PM, Paul Koning <paulkoning at comcast.net> wrote:
I don't remember precisely, but I think you can
export libraries from
Eagle in some sort of text form.
That was possible with Eagle 5 (and probably earlier), but is no longer
necessary since Eagle 6, as the native file formats (schematic, board, and
library) are now XML. This was a huge advance for anyone who wanted to
write tools to manipulate the files. I've both edited the files by hand,
and written Python programs to generate and manipulate Eagle files.
Of course, KiCAD uses open file formats, so I'm not touting that as an
advantage of Eagle over KiCAD, but it is an advantage of Eagle over other
proprietary EDA packages.
20 Feb
20 Feb
6:24 a.m.
Paul Koning wrote:
I've made pcbnew footprints for PLCC Sockets in the past with some
scripting. In the meantime the footprint format has changed to that
.pretty. I don't had to make footprints with such big pincounts sine
them again, but I don't think they made it simpossible to use scripting
for that at all.
On Feb 17, 2017, at 2:35 PM, Noel Chiappa <jnc
at mercury.lcs.mit.edu> wrote:
...
One thing I learned with Eagle (an old version -- I started with it on DOS, with a
physical license dongle) is that you can define library stuff via scripting. This is very
helpful when defining 120-pin PCB footprints. From: Guy Sotomayor Jr
In terms of community supplied libraries, Eagle
has those too and I've
found that by and large they are junk (it's easier/quicker for me to
create a part on my own
... While I haven't seen a lot of KiCAD contributed libraries (that's
part of the problem)
KiCAD came with a fairly large set of user-contributed libraries. For various
reasons (including working with archaic parts), I've wound up adding quite a
few, but i've usally found it pretty easy to modify an exising part from the
libraries, to get what I need. YMMV.
I don't remember precisely, but I think you can export libraries from Eagle in some
sort of text form. If that's true, then it would be SMOP to write a KiCAD library
importer. The key question is whether the library semantics are compatible. EAGLE is
rather nice in the way it handles schematic symbols vs. footprints and all that.
You can select footprints corrsponding to a part in the schematic editor
for each part. What's the problem?
I used EAGLE long ago for one project, and more recently for another, but I haven't
found it sufficiently useful to buy it a second time to get the non-free version. Not
that I really need the autorouter, it isn't really all that useful. But still,
it's pretty steep for a hobbyist. I discovered KiCAD, haven't used it yet, should
give it a try.
One nice aspect of EAGLE is that a number of PCB fab shops will accept EAGLE *.BRD files
directly, rather than asking for Gerber and drill files.
paul
Why is that nice? This way the pcb company has your "sourcecode".
Besides of that where is the real difference to going to
"File->Plot", Select "Gerber" and push the "Plot"
Button?
That can't really be to difficult...
Regards,
Holm
--
Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe,
Freiberger Stra?e 42, 09600 Obersch?na, USt-Id: DE253710583
info at tsht.de Fax +49 3731 74200 Tel +49 3731 74222 Mobil: 0172 8790 741
9:22 a.m.
On Feb 20, 2017, at 06:24, Holm Tiffe <holm at
freibergnet.de> wrote:
Why is that nice? This way the pcb company has your "sourcecode".
Besides of that where is the real difference to going to
"File->Plot", Select "Gerber" and push the "Plot"
Button?
That can't really be to difficult...
In every PCB tool I've used, Gerber generation is a separate, configurable process
which can easily be misconfigured. Visually checking my Gerbers for common mistakes is a
normal part of my flow, no matter what tool I use, even after I have the settings dialed
in. Yes, I usually just click "plot" as you say, but I still proof the plots for
mistakes that can creep in, such as designing a board with more layers than I had
previously used in that particular tool installation, and forgetting to emit the Gerbers
for the added layers.
Back when I had to review a lot of customer PCB designs as an applications engineer for a
chip manufacturer, I'd regularly get Gerbers from professional designers which
required post-processing such as changing drill scaling and offset before I could even
view them, and that taught me to be a lot more careful about my own Gerber generation. I
suspect that full-service PCB houses would just quietly fix problems like that and only
raise flags for serious errors, so many designers probably never got any feedback about
their Gerbers being messy. But no-touch quick-turn shops require pretty clean Gerbers, so
skipping Gerber generation lowers the bar for inexperienced PCB designers.
I don't personally send in PCB source files instead of Gerbers, but I can see how
being able to do that can be helpful and convenient for beginners.
--
Mark J. Blair, NF6X <nf6x at nf6x.net>
http://www.nf6x.net/
17 Feb
17 Feb
5:50 p.m.
On 02/17/2017 01:35 PM, Noel Chiappa wrote:
I do some 4-layer and 6-layer boards,
where the possibility
for things to get shorted together multiply,
and it is easy to overlook it when manually checking. I
can't say about KiCad as I have not done anything over 2
layers with it.
EVERYTHING on Protel is configurable, you can add items to
the menus, create the picture for the menu item, etc.
As for libraries, I really don't trust ANYBODY else's
library parts, at least until I've checked them. Protel's
are actually pretty bad, by the way, so most of them are now
MY parts, not theirs.
Jon
From: Jon
Elson
I'm most concerned about the reliability of
the design rules check
...
If these checks miss errors, I REALLY don't want to use the package.
I'm not quite sure what's covered here, but I have used the checker on my
admittedly-tiny projects, and been happy with it.
and layout vs. schematic.
Again, Dave has used it to lay out at least one moderately-sized card, and
seems to have been happy with the results. (KiCad seems to still require picking operations
from a menu, Protel
has user-configurable keyboard shortcuts that are a big help. Maybe
KiCad has that and I just need to learn them.)
KiCAD does have keyboard shortcuts. I don't know if they are configurable.
2862
days inactive
2865
days old
6 comments
7 participants
participants (7)
-
elson＠pico-systems.com -
holm＠freibergnet.de -
jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu -
kylevowen＠gmail.com -
nf6x＠nf6x.net -
paulkoning＠comcast.net -
spacewar＠gmail.com