<FWIW, it's been my experience that on problems small enough to be tackle <by the J-11, an 18MHz J-11 eats the VAX-11/780 for lunch. The PDP-11 is no slouch. I've used the T-11 part for some things and even using the pokey 7.5mhz clock some tasks are faster than most anything contemporary to it like the z80/8mhz even though the numbers say slower. It's that CISC with superior addressing modes that put it out ahead. I've found the same but it's task dependant and also the 780 is always doing more than the J-11 due to OS. I did get a chance to try that once and the 780 was running nothing more than the usual background tasks and it was close but then both are about 1mips. Same was true in 1978 when the 11/70 was put up against the 11/780. The 2vup and faster VAXen made it a no contest in favor of the VAX though. As soon as the task exceeds 64k or the user/task load gets up there the differences start to stretch out with the vax ahead. A faster PDP-11 will always have that disadvantage. Allison